Diakonos

I really didn't know whether to laugh, cry or throw my hands up in despair when we discussed this at last night's meeting. The answers that were given during these paragraphs and the response of the study conductor really showed to me how, as a general rule, we are such a non-thinking and illogical group of people.
 
5 As we saw in Chapter 2 of this book, the Bible Students spent decades pointing out that the year 1914 would be significant in fulfilling Bible prophecy. However, at that time they believed that Christ’s presence had begun in 1874, that he had begun to rule in heaven in 1878, and that the Kingdom would not be fully set up until October 1914. The harvest would extend from 1874 to 1914 and would culminate in the gathering of the anointed to heaven. Do mistaken ideas such as these cast doubt on whether Jesus was guiding those faithful ones by means of holy spirit?
6 Not at all! Think again of our opening illustration. Would the premature ideas and eager questions of the tourists cast doubt on the reliability of their guide? Hardly! Similarly, although God’s people sometimes try to work out details of Jehovah’s purpose before it is time for the holy spirit to guide them to such truths, it is clear that Jesus is leading them. Thus, faithful ones prove willing to be corrected and humbly adjust their views.
 
It is also upsetting that the governing body, in instances like this, always speak in the third person. How much more humble would it be for them to say ;
 
"Similarly, although we, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes try to work out details of Jehovah’s purpose before it is time for the holy spirit to guide us to such truths..."
 
Any comments ?
 

In my mind there is no difference. There is no transparency as to finances in the organisation except at congregation level. The very fact that a financial report is read out at a religious meeting assumes that by so doing those in attendance will be "motivated" to give. It is passing the plate covertly.

In my mind there is no difference. There is no transparency as to finances in the organisation except at congregation level. The very fact that a financial report is read out at a religious meeting assumes that by so doing those in attendance will be "motivated" to give. It is passing the plate covertly.

Indeed others also believe that Jesus and Michael are one and the same, however they also believe that Jesus is God the Son, although they didn't always hold to that belief. In the Finished Mystery, Russell, if indeed it was Russell, wrote that Michael was the Pope and his angels were the bishops ?

As printing is reduced it will become easier to rewrite all the embarrassing statements online that never materialised.

In my mind there is no difference. There is no transparency as to finances in the organisation except at congregation level. The very fact that a financial report is read out at a religious meeting assumes that by so doing those in attendance will be "motivated" to give. It is passing the plate covertly.

As printing is reduced it will become easier to rewrite all the embarrassing statements online that never materialised.

In my mind there is no difference. There is no transparency as to finances in the organisation except at congregation level. The very fact that a financial report is read out at a religious meeting assumes that by so doing those in attendance will be "motivated" to give. It is passing the plate covertly.

One thing that has always puzzled me is this: what happened to the spirit creature Michael when Jesus was conceived/born as a human? We are told that Jehovah transferred Michael's life pattern into Jesus in much the same way as God will do for those who are resurrected. This would mean that when Jesus was alive on earth there was no Michael in heaven. As we do not believe that humans have a spirit, in the accepted sense of the word, the question remains, what happened to Michael during Jesus earthly presence?

I really didn't know whether to laugh, cry or throw my hands up in despair when we discussed this at last night's meeting. The answers that were given during these paragraphs and the response of the study conductor really showed to me how, as a general rule, we are such a non-thinking and illogical group of people.
 
5 As we saw in Chapter 2 of this book, the Bible Students spent decades pointing out that the year 1914 would be significant in fulfilling Bible prophecy. However, at that time they believed that Christ’s presence had begun in 1874, that he had begun to rule in heaven in 1878, and that the Kingdom would not be fully set up until October 1914. The harvest would extend from 1874 to 1914 and would culminate in the gathering of the anointed to heaven. Do mistaken ideas such as these cast doubt on whether Jesus was guiding those faithful ones by means of holy spirit?
6 Not at all! Think again of our opening illustration. Would the premature ideas and eager questions of the tourists cast doubt on the reliability of their guide? Hardly! Similarly, although God’s people sometimes try to work out details of Jehovah’s purpose before it is time for the holy spirit to guide them to such truths, it is clear that Jesus is leading them. Thus, faithful ones prove willing to be corrected and humbly adjust their views.
 
It is also upsetting that the governing body, in instances like this, always speak in the third person. How much more humble would it be for them to say ;
 
"Similarly, although we, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes try to work out details of Jehovah’s purpose before it is time for the holy spirit to guide us to such truths..."
 
Any comments ?
 

I really didn't know whether to laugh, cry or throw my hands up in despair when we discussed this at last night's meeting. The answers that were given during these paragraphs and the response of the study conductor really showed to me how, as a general rule, we are such a non-thinking and illogical group of people.
 
5 As we saw in Chapter 2 of this book, the Bible Students spent decades pointing out that the year 1914 would be significant in fulfilling Bible prophecy. However, at that time they believed that Christ’s presence had begun in 1874, that he had begun to rule in heaven in 1878, and that the Kingdom would not be fully set up until October 1914. The harvest would extend from 1874 to 1914 and would culminate in the gathering of the anointed to heaven. Do mistaken ideas such as these cast doubt on whether Jesus was guiding those faithful ones by means of holy spirit?
6 Not at all! Think again of our opening illustration. Would the premature ideas and eager questions of the tourists cast doubt on the reliability of their guide? Hardly! Similarly, although God’s people sometimes try to work out details of Jehovah’s purpose before it is time for the holy spirit to guide them to such truths, it is clear that Jesus is leading them. Thus, faithful ones prove willing to be corrected and humbly adjust their views.
 
It is also upsetting that the governing body, in instances like this, always speak in the third person. How much more humble would it be for them to say ;
 
"Similarly, although we, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes try to work out details of Jehovah’s purpose before it is time for the holy spirit to guide us to such truths..."
 
Any comments ?
 

*** it-2 p. 1085 Ten Words *** Source of Tablets. The Ten Words were first orally given at Mount Sinai by the angel of Jehovah. (Ex 20:1; 31:18; De 5:22; 9:10; Ac 7:38, 53; see also Ga 3:19; Heb 2:2.) Moses then ascended the mountain to receive the Ten Words in written form on two stone tablets, along with other commandments and instructions. During his extended 40-day stay, the people grew restless and made a molten calf to worship. Descending the mountain, Moses saw this spectacle of idolatry and threw down “the tablets [that] were the workmanship of God,” the very tablets upon which the Ten Words had been written, and shattered them.—Ex 24:12; 31:18–32:19; De 9:8-17; compare Lu 11:20. Jehovah later told Moses: “Carve out for yourself two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I must write upon the tablets the words that appeared on the first tablets, which you shattered.” (Ex 34:1-4) And so after another 40 days spent in the mountain, a duplicate copy of the Ten Words was obtained. These were kept by Moses in an ark of acacia wood. (De 10:1-5) The two tablets were called “the tablets of the covenant.” (De 9:9, 11, 15) Evidently this is why the gold-overlaid ark later made by Bezalel, in which the tablets were eventually kept, was called “the ark of the covenant.” (Jos 3:6, 11; 8:33; Jg 20:27; Heb 9:4) This legislation of the Ten Words was also called “the testimony” (Ex 25:16, 21; 40:20) and the “tablets of the Testimony” (Ex 31:18; 34:29), hence the expressions “the ark of the testimony” (Ex 25:22; Nu 4:5), and also “the tabernacle of the Testimony,” that is, the tent where the Ark was housed.—Ex 38:21. Concerning the first set of tablets, it is stated that they not only were made by Jehovah but were also “written on by God’s finger,” evidently denoting God’s spirit. (Ex 31:18; De 4:13; 5:22; 9:10) Likewise, the second set of tablets, although carved out by Moses, were written upon by Jehovah. When, at Exodus 34:27, Moses was told, “Write down for yourself these words,” reference was not to the Ten Words themselves, but, rather, as on a previous occasion (Ex 24:3, 4), he was to write down some of the other details pertaining to the covenant regulations. Hence, the pronoun “he” in Exodus 34:28b refers to Jehovah when it says: “And he [Jehovah, not Moses] proceeded to write upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words.” Verse 1 shows this to be so. Later, when recalling these events, Moses confirms that it was Jehovah who duplicated the tablets.—De 10:1-4.

The organization often uses the scriptures from 1 Cor 16 and 2 Cor 8 to appeal for us to make contributions to the world wide work. However, as you read these verses in context the contributions that were collected were for the material needs of fellow Christians who were undergoing poverty and famine. I am in no doubt that many of our fellow Christians in this world would welcome material assistance, especially in some of the poorer countries. Instead millions are spent on making the organizations headquarters into a palatial residence not to mention the millions that have already been paid out in settlements regarding sexual abuse cases !! I strongly feel that this is an abuse of those scriptures, making them say what the writer and ultimately the divine author did not intend. Agree or disagree ?

Bringing someone to righteousness does not make the bringer a mediator between the person and God. If you conduct a Bible study with an individual and that individual abandons an immoral lifestyle and subsequently lives their life by God's standards you can say that you have had a part in turning or leading that person towards righteousness. However, you have not become a mediator between that person and God.
The simple Biblical fact is stated at 1 Tim 2 : 5 there is only one mediator between God and men and that is God's son, Jesus Christ.

I see where you are coming from. The standard of righteousness is Jehovah's and his standards do not change. The verses in Romans are applied to Abraham because of his faith in Gods promises. Righteousness was credited to him in the same way as it was credited to 1st century Christians and also to those who have faith in the ransom. According to the authority of the scriptures you cannot have 2 different applications of being declared righteous. I realize that thinking along these lines may seem to muddy the societies teachings however the recent WT study highlights how "the slave" can err in doctrinal matters. As lovers of truth we must rely on the authority of Gods word.
 

True. Our obedience to God and Christ is vital.

According to Romans Chapter 4, a person is declared righteous by God through their faith in Christ. The society makes a distinction between the righteousness that was reckoned or credited to Abraham and the righteousness that is counted to the annointed. According to the publications Abraham's righteousness made him a friend of God whereas the annointed are declared righteous for life as God's children and heirs of Christ. However as I read Romans Ch 4 I came across these verses regarding Abraham, especially verses 23 and 24
   20  But because of the promise of God, he did not waver in a lack of faith; but he became powerful by his faith, giving God glory 21  and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to do.+ 22  Therefore, “it was counted to him as righteousness.”+23  However, the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake only,+ 24  but also for our sake, to whom it will be counted, because we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.+ 
As I read these verses it struck me that Paul saw no difference in Abraham having righteousness "counted to him" and 1st century Christians having righteousness "counted to them" .As verse 23 shows this is the same declaring of righteousness with the same resulting promise. I tried to research those verses in the Watchtower Library but strangely enough there were no direct references to explain them.
Any thoughts on these verses ?

True. Our obedience to God and Christ is vital.