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ComfortMyPeople

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  1. Thanks
    ComfortMyPeople got a reaction from Thinking in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    (Luke 12:47, 48) . . .Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.
     
    Anna, everyone of us know who has the responsability to fix the situation: "his master on coming" (Lu 12:43)
    So, what can we do? Wait, be busy in the work and making fine things, and pray.
    Pray for these brothers in th GB, that they have the wisdom and courage to act. Pray for the humble ones, that Jehovah grant them faith to wait without stumbling
  2. Thanks
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Anna in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    Why is it so hard, for some of the JWs on here to simply admit that yes, 1975 was a debacle, and a  mistake made by  imperfect people, eager to see the new world. There is nothing wrong with that kind of eagerness. Rather than denying and defending that 1975 was not a debacle, why not talk about what this teaches us, and how it can help us on a personal level to avoid getting sweap up by that kind of reasoning in the future? If the conventions suddenly started mentioning 1930 as a possible date for Armageddon, because of some calculations pertaining to the generation, for example (or any other calculations for thay matter) how would we react? Emma mentioned we would just wait and see. Well yes, that is definitely an answer, and can be the answer for absolutely anything  that we are not sure about. But maybe it should go deeper than that. Maybe we should look at ourselves, and refresh the reasons why we are in the truth in the first place. Like those who are now ex-JWs should have done prior to 1975...
  3. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Anna in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    I have a feeling you are not being entirely honest. Have you listened to Charles Sinutko's talk? If so, what do you have to say about it? And tell me, how many times did he mentioned the year 1975, and in what context?
  4. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Anna in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    If I had been at this convention in 1967, and listened to Charles Sinutko's talk (a District Overseer), I would have been convinced the end was coming in 1975. Although he said it was a "possibility" it got drowned out by all the other things he said which made it more of a probability. If we would hear a talk along similar lines today, a prominent brother, perhaps one of the helpers to the GB, mentioning the year 2030 (for example), not once, but several times throughout the talk as a possible year for Armageddon, how would we feel? But it seems that some of us find it hard to be honest with ourselves.
    1967 District Convention talk by Charles Sinutko:

    Your browser does not support the HTML5 audio tag.
     
    On a positive note, Charles Sinutko's life story can be found here: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102004607 
    Of course there is no mention of 1975, but despite what must have been a disappointment, his faith was obviously not shaken, and he remains a faithful brother.
     
  5. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Arauna in Akua Donkor and Jehovah's Witnesses   
    The Muslim government is not stopping terrorists from attacking Christians in most vicious ways. Christian villagers have been murdered and daughters taken as slaves.   This is not a surprise in such a corrupt country. Many people have already lost their jobs but it seems that Satan is really starting to use governments to put the screws on us. 
  6. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in Love and Funerals in the Age of Zoom   
    I just attended a memorial service for my uncle yesterday. At least 800 persons tried to attend through Zoom. My uncle was part of a large extended family. About 400 stayed for the comments afterward, and they lasted for more than 2.5 more hours, making the entire memorial about 3.5 hours long. There were attendees from all over the world, including Dubai and China, but mostly Californian and South Carolina. Based on statistical averages there is probably a fair chance that at least one of the other 16,700 members of this forum was also on that same Zoom call, assuming most of those members are JWs.
    The brother who gave the talk continued to "host" the whole time. My aunt and a cousin allowed for anyone to speak who wanted to say something. Dozens of persons had examples to share of his sense of humor, funny incidents that happened in field service, and a lot of nice things to say about his sincerity and kindness when it came to shepherding. He had been a circuit overseer and substitute circuit overseer for a good part of his life.
    This second portion of course is mostly a new Zoom thing for us, where the personal experiences are offered, and even children sometimes speak about their grandpa and great-grandpa. But I saw so much love coming through, and no one seemed to want the experience to stop.
    It's only the second of such memorial services I have attended like this, but I have heard of another one a month ago.
    Just looking for comments, I guess, on whether others have experienced this. I think it's a very good thing, and I was glad that some non-Witness relatives could share this experience.
  7. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Anna in Thought for the day- walking in the name of Jehovah   
    Do you think it's possible for someone who is not yet aware of the importance of God's name, to feel they have relationship with him?
    I know my grandpa loved God, and talked to him as if he was a friend. But he never had the opportunity to realise the importance of using God's name.
    What about those through the centuries, who may have been anointed, but may have only vaguely been aware of God's name, and in some cases not even known it.
  8. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Arauna in Banned Religious Groups’ Members ‘Transformed’ in Xinjiang Camps   
    I knew it would soon leak out that JWs are amongst them.  The world has not yet 'named' us as persecuted although other leaked stories indicate "conscientious objectors". 
    China and other totalitarian states are part of the King of the North.... Daniel 11: 36 to the end of chapter. 
    There is an economic pushing going on for the wealth of the earth and the opposition to Jehovah's people is unspeakably fierce.
    The catholic church in China have removed all icons in the churches and a arge picture of the CCP leader and two other members are worshipped.  The Pope is at present renegotiating the contract with the leadership of CCP.  CCP appoints all bishops and knows all members ....... this is how CCP can suddenly clamp down.  They have rewritten the Catholic bible to take out anything offensive which does not promote worship of the state. 
    Bizarre compromise from the catholic church ....... but what does one expect from one of the "man of lawlessness?"  Recently the Pope had sharmins (spiritistic native Amazonian Indians) dancing around their idols at the Vatican which was a huge UN  Amazon nature celebration.  The Pope is leading the implementation of the UN's sustainable development program called Agenda 2030. He is also leading the Abrahamic covenant or agreement which will soon be signed by 3 major religions (riding the beast?")  In the agreement of peace the 3 abrahamic religions acknowledge that there is only one God. (There is no mention of Christ as the one who gave the ransom. He is not mentioned but omitted......because the other two faith are anti.... our redeemer.
    We will soon see how events pan out.
  9. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Anna in One Jehovah’s Witness acquitted in Russia as others get months of restrictions   
    There are many scriptures that clearly show that not all people will be saved, and what to do to be saved. It also talks clearly about shunning. I won't go into specific details, because you already know them. Of course no man can judge another person, that will ultimately be God. But that doesn't mean JWs can't decide who is approved to become a JW or who no longer qualifies to be JW. No one else but JWs can make that decision, I mean no government will make, or interfere with the decision or constitution of a religion.. And that's part of what religious freedom means. 
    What God ultimately decides, is, ..well...up to God.
  10. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Isabella in Scholars call out Putin and the 'escalation' of persecution against Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia   
    A group of 50 religion scholars from around the world is calling on President Vladimir Putin and his administration to end the persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia.
    The scholars' statement, released Thursday, follows the Center for Studies on New Religions’ one-day conference, “Jehovah’s Witnesses and Their Opponents: Russia, the West, and Beyond,” held online from Vilnius, Lithuania, in early September.
    “As institutions and individuals concerned with religious freedom, we have followed the events in Russia with increasing alarm,” the CESNUR statement reads.
    Among those events is a reported armed raid of 110 homes of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia’s Voronezh region in July that the scholars call the “largest number of coordinated raids on Jehovah’s Witnesses in modern Russia” and an “escalation” in the persecution of Witnesses in the country.
    More than 170 Jehovah’s Witnesses have reportedly been imprisoned or put in pre-trial detention in Russia since 2017 for practicing their faith.
    https://www.sightmagazine.com.au/news/17366-scholars-call-out-putin-and-the-escalation-of-persecution-against-jehovah-s-witnesses-in-russia
    https://www.cesnur.org/2020/jehovahs-witnesses-statement.htm
  11. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in Prophecy & Signs, Truth & Conspiracy, Covid-19, the UN, Disgusting Thing, Truth and Conspiracies   
    *** w20 November pp. 14-15 Take Courage—Jehovah Is Your Helper ***
    HELP FROM INDIVIDUALS IN AUTHORITY
    ...
    13 What help do we receive? When it is in harmony with his purpose, Jehovah may use his powerful holy spirit to cause people in authority to do what he desires. King Solomon wrote: “A king’s heart is like streams of water in Jehovah’s hand. He directs it wherever He pleases.” (Prov. 21:1) What does this proverb mean? Humans can dig a canal to divert the water of a stream in a direction that fits their plans. Similarly, Jehovah can use his spirit to divert the thoughts of rulers in a direction that is in harmony with his purpose. When that occurs, people in authority feel motivated to make decisions that benefit God’s people.—Compare Ezra 7:21, 25, 26.
    14 What can we do? We can pray “concerning kings and all those who are in positions of authority” when these individuals are called on to make decisions that affect our Christian life and ministry. (1 Tim. 2:1, 2, ftn.; Neh. 1:11)
    I notice that the Watchtower also includes this within the idea of paying back Caesar's things to Caesar, and even the idea of "being ready for every good work" is subsumed under the idea of performing "government" sponsored works:
    *** w90 11/1 pp. 11-12 pars. 7-8 The Christian’s View of the Superior Authorities ***
    7 Further, Paul’s exhortation to be in subjection to the superior authorities is in harmony with Jesus’ command to pay back “Caesar’s things to Caesar,” where “Caesar” represents secular authority. (Matthew 22:21) It also agrees with Paul’s later words to Titus: “Continue reminding them to be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers, to be ready for every good work.” (Titus 3:1) Hence, when Christians are ordered by governments to share in community works, they quite properly comply as long as those works do not amount to a compromising substitute for some unscriptural service or otherwise violate Scriptural principles, such as that found at Isaiah 2:4.
    8 Peter also affirmed that we should be subject to the secular authorities of this world when he said: “For the Lord’s sake subject yourselves to every human creation: whether to a king as being superior or to governors as being sent by him to inflict punishment on evildoers but to praise doers of good.” (1 Peter 2:13, 14) In harmony with this, Christians would also heed Paul’s admonition to Timothy: “I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life.”—1 Timothy 2:1, 2.
    Srecko brought up a point about how neutrality might be equated with lack of knowledge, but it is clear that knowledge would be necessary to distinguish whether those community works requested by authorities are not some form of compromise. 
    It's easy to imagine a group of Witnesses who are told by government authorities that they must clean up a polluted lake or waterway before undertaking some large building projects on its shores, or that they must clean up the toxins that can carry runoff into the water to protect animals depending on it. In spite of the recent article about neutrality, when such situation occurred, Witness lawyers (and others) actually lobbied the relevant government authorities for favorable rulings. Lawsuits were initiated by the WTS to overcome the costs of some of these decisions. I know that brothers were called in to gain a lot of knowledge about the situation before some of these actions were taken. But I also talked personally with one of the lawyers involved and it was my assessment that the spirit of Jesus' words here were not taken to heart:
    (Matthew 5:40-46) . . .And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment; 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 ... 43 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?
    In the future, if WItnesses are told to build buildings that meet certain "green standards" to meet certain SDG's (Sustainable Development Goals) do you think that some Witnesses might rightly lobby against it, because these SDG's were suggested to governmental authorities by the UN, who only promoted them because they were a way of promoting "peace and security"? And we all know that when we support anything that combines "UN" with "peace and security" we are supporting Satan's schemes?
    A little bit of knowledge won't hurt us. We should not be ignorant of Satan's designs either:
    *** nwtsty 2 Corinthians Study Notes—Chapter 2 ***
    we are not ignorant of his designs: Paul does not just say that “we are aware of his designs.” Rather, he uses a figure of speech called litotes, that is, an understatement made in order to give emphasis by saying that the opposite is not true. (An example of litotes can be found at Ac 21:39, where Tarsus is called “no obscure city,” which means an important city.) Accordingly, some translations render this phrase “we are well aware of his schemes” or “we know his wiles all too well,” which conveys similar emphasis.
    This is a double-edged argument. Arauna is correct therefore to look to whether any of these "community works" are actually compromising. She correctly said she would have to "go along" with some of them even if she hated where they were coming from. But since we all stand individually before the judgment seat, we should all have a reason for the stand we take.
  12. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Anna in "PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES   
    Judging by the few comments in response there are ones who understand where you are coming from and are even grateful for ones like you, as one of them said: "My study conductor was always unsure about the what to say to the questions I'd bring. So I began looking for jehovah's witnesses that were/are responding and thankfully I found a good few, including yourself ....... and to be honest I'm not 100% certain that I would have continued if I hadn't been able to get answers to questions and honest perspectives on being a Witness".
    In my opinion honesty is the key. Are we willing to admit mistakes and not try to justify or gloss over them? Why would we even want to justify mistakes? Wouldn't it be like saying we do not sin?  "If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10  If we make the statement, “We have not sinned,” we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us". 1 John 1:8-10
    For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.  (Ecclesiastes 7:20)
    So what's the problem, really? In fact the sooner one understands that, the less chance there is of being stumbled or shocked and leaving.
  13. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople got a reaction from Thinking in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Oh, yes, it would make me feel like in the Paradise! I’ve included a new post regarding some collateral ideas. Your answer inspired me to write another post I had in my mind for a while: Our problem with the humility.

    Had the supposed first century GB secrets meetings?

    ·        (Acts 15:7-25) “After much intense discussion had taken place, Peter rose and said to them:[…]10 So why are you now making a test of God by imposing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing? […] 12 At that the entire group became silent […] 22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to […] 24 Since we have heard that some went out from among us and caused you trouble with what they have said, trying to subvert you, although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous decision to…”

    We can observe from this account about the transcendental meeting:

    ·        The difficulty to arrive to the final accord – “intense discussion”

    ·        The different contributions for his name – “Peter, Paul, James…”

    ·        The dissimilar opinions – “you… imposing on the neck of the disciples a yoke”

    ·        The lack of secrecy – “decided to… etc.”

    What added benefits we would find?

    Let’s take, for example, the “other sheep” parable. (By the way, JWI, your exposition about the two congregations was in the way in try to teach others, but most of the time I find it difficult or impossible, I’ll explain it later). If we maintain both possibilities open:

    ·        We wouldn’t have to change once and again about meanings.

    ·        We wouldn’t have to expel brothers for sectaries.

    ·        We, mainly the GB, would show more humility.

    The problem is, in my opinion, that the “slave class” has converted in core doctrines what are, in reality, explanations, applications “interpretations” –yes, I know this is a taboo word in our dictionary. Many times I mention to brothers with doubts: “the core teachings brother Russell started to teach are the same we are believing at this precisely time: dead condition, hell, soul, trinity, life on earth and so.” Our failure are the prophecies and similar.

    It’s a matter of loyalty

    When I read Rev 1 to 3 I found something shocking. Most of the congregations were in very bad condition… but Christ had them in his very hand, overseeing them. So, if I was in one of those congregations what should I have to do with the attitudes and actions of the body of elders on those congregations? Would I like to direct my “bible students” of those days to my congregation, attending the meetings?

    Yes, if some elders influenced by Jezebels would have to influence me to consent sexual immorality, I’ll try to refuse his bad influence. But, in spite my despair, trying to correct the body of elders wouldn’t be my war, but Christ’s. Let me put modern examples.

    Do you remember the short period (perhaps in the 80, I don’t remember) when were given instructions to report TWICE each month? I’m not sure how long was this arrangement, perhaps only months! Now, I’m an elder in the congregation on those days and I feel this disposition is completely silly (well, it was), and I begin to discourage the brother to inform two times monthly.

    Is it the same to report our ministry twice each month than teach others to commit sexual Immorality? Rev 2:20?

    So, in spite I disagree with some dispositions or teachings from the GB, I let the things in the hands of the Master. Is His responsibility, not mine.

    Why Uzzah had to hold the Ark? (1Chr.13:9) Yes, it was a fault from the GB of those days, but it was a problem between Jehovah and His anointed.

    I find no way to teach in my congregation in this open way if the GB don’t show the way to make this way. Sometimes, nevertheless the brothers on charge of the teaching have been close to this:

    ·        *** ip-1 chap. 18 pp. 241-243 par. 21-23 Shebna’s experience reminds us that among those who claim to worship God, those who accept privileges of service should use them to serve others and to bring praise to Jehovah. They should not abuse their position in order to enrich themselves or gain personal prominence. For example, Christendom has long promoted herself as an appointed steward, the earthly representative of Jesus Christ. However, just as Shebna brought dishonor on his father by seeking his own glory, Christendom’s leaders have brought dishonor on the Creator by amassing riches and power for themselves. Hence, when the time of judgment “to start with the house of God” came in 1918, Jehovah removed Christendom

    ·        23 What happens to Shebna? We have no record of how the prophecy about him, recorded at Isaiah 22:18, was fulfilled. When he exalts himself and is then disgraced, he resembles Christendom, but he may have learned from the discipline. In this, he is very different from Christendom. […] What a fine lesson for those who lose positions of service in God’s organization!

    A fine example! Two opens applications!

    Another one: how to flight when the disgusting thing starts to stand where it should not be?

    *** w99 5/1 p. 19 par. 22 “We cannot presently have full details about the great tribulation, but we can logically conclude that for us the flight Jesus spoke of will not be in a geographic sense. God’s people are already around the globe, virtually in every corner. We can be sure, though, that when flight is necessary, Christians will have to continue to maintain a clear distinction between themselves and false religious organizations. It is also significant that Jesus warned about not going back to one’s house to retrieve garments or other goods.”

    In other words: the GB is not sure about the fulfillment and let it clear his lack of knowledge. Perfect! For me, what wonderful it’ll be if a lot of applications and meanings about the Scriptures the GB would have this attitude. “We have no full details, we aren’t sure, both possibilities fits this prophecy.”

    To finalize, I prefer the older explanation about the meaning of the illustration of the leaven and the woman (Mat.13:33) Obviously, I teach others the modern one. But what damage would happen if the GB would have said “both applications are possible?”

    So, JW Insider, summarizing. Of course I’d like the GB would show more humility, that he would be more open indicating his own doubts in form of possibilities, not “lights or flashes.” But if they need to be corrected, they have a Master. I pray this Master guide them, so the Master hadn’t to punish them!

     

     

     
  14. Like
    ComfortMyPeople got a reaction from Juan Rivera in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Who is more loyal?
    This is a real conversation I had with a brother. He insisted I should follow some instructions in our congregation. I agreed but I also mentioned this arrangement was silly. Then, he insisted, if I were more loyal I would not think it was silly. So, I gave him one example:
    One person is blind, and his master demand him: “take this envelop and deliver it in the house at the end of this road.” So, he does, helping himself with a walking stick, happy whistling while is serving his chief.
    What the blind servant ignores is that the road is flanked, surrounded with deep cliffs. But as he didn’t see anything was very happy and confident.
    Now. The boss orders to another employee doing the same thing, but this time the servant see perfectly the riffs. And still worst, he is afraid of heights.  But this second servant also obeys the master. This time without whistles, but swallowing saliva and sometimes closing the eyes.
    Then, I asked to my interlocutor: who is more loyal?
    And he insisted, “both sowed the same loyalty.” What’s the opinion of you, the reader? Who was more loyal?
    A very difficult situation.
    Sometimes, I putted myself in the next situation.  I am one of the men following David when he was persecuted by Saul. Then I get shocked, the anointed of Jehovah I admire give a very strange order: “let’s kill all Nabal’s house.” I immediately think this is a terrible injustice but, I ride the horse with the other 400 and obey the anointed. What a relief when Abigail stops him!
    Years later I’m serving in the army under Joab. Then, my general give me strange orders from the King: Uriah must be abandoned in the middle of the fight. I think: “what, this is a murder.” But, of course, the order comes from the king anointed by Jehovah, sure the king has more information than me. Perhaps Uriah is a traitor. I feel terribly wrong, but I obey.
    What I’m proposing is: if I want to be loyal, must always agree with the instructions from the “slave” class? Have I the right to think some orders, explanations, directions from these brothers are silly, sometimes completely wrong?
    I follow these teachings, of course, but, please, don’t force me to always agree with them!
  15. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople got a reaction from Thinking in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Allow me to play devil’s advocate. Re-reading several posts of JW Insider, I extract two main points.

    One. JW Insider respect the GB. He considers these brothers as carrying an enormous responsibility. For him they are some kind of body of elders with global, worldwide concerns.

    Derived from this view, we should respect them and obey them, following the Heb.13:17 counsel: “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account”
    Two. JW Insider disagree with the application of the slave’s parable to these brothers.

    Well, and what’s the matter? It isn’t the main point to obey the brothers leading the congregation, even the universal congregation? Does this obedience depend of the meaning of one parable? What if (our understanding of) the meaning changes? Should we then, stop obeying them?

    I’m completely sure the GB is very conscious of the special meaning of the next verses to all of them:

    ·        (James 3:1) “Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment”
    ·        (Luke 12:48) “Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him”
    ·        (Luke 19:22) “He said to him, ‘By your own words I judge you”
    I don’t envy them. They deserve our respect and prayers. Regarding the last verse I’ve quoted, as it applies to the bad slave, I’m not saying the GB is this bad slave. I mean that according Jesus words, if one person or collective claims to be something will be judged according his affirmations.

    And I don’t think any presumptuousness about them, rather they had the same attitude -I think so-  of Isaiah when he said: (Isaiah 6:8) “Here I am! Send me!” In other words, they have seen the responsibility to oversee the worldwide congregation and don’t refuse to accomplish.

    Sorry if after this defense JW Insider goes to hail!!

  16. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Not to repeat too much of what has already been said many times, but it has been a while so I'll answer.
    We got a great war in 1914 that killed more in a few years than several previous wars ever managed to kill in wars that lasted decades, or even hundreds of years. I have no problem with seeing 1914 as a very historic year for world war, and wars are often associated with pestilence and food shortages, just as they were within a few short years before and after the great war. Some great earthquakes, too, were notable less than 10 years prior to 1914, and less than 10 years after 1914. So I definitely agree that this was a great turning point in history, and I have no problem using this idea in the ministry. More people should be seeking Jehovah's kingdom due to such an historical turning point.
    But we should consider too that Jesus told his disciples when they asked him for a sign of the end, not to be misled by wars and reports of wars. So perhaps Satan wanted to fool people into accepting 1914 by leading the nations to a war that could mislead them into thinking they were seeing a sign. 
    Secular history does admit in the Babylonian Chronicles a deportation as early as 627 BCE using the Watchtower's dates, which secular history identifies as 607 BCE. For you to say that this proves 607 means that you must be rejecting the 20 year offset that the Watchtower uses in order to place 607 as the 18th/19th year of Nebuchadnezzar when Jeremiah says that Jerusalem was burned and the temple destroyed and the Messianic line of kingship was interrupted. 
    Otherwise, what "607" date are you referring to? You have obfuscated about this date for several years now. It's probably time you cleared things up about your own beliefs instead of just trying to find fault with others. What makes the SECULAR 607 date about a deportation before Nebuchadnezzar was even a king so interesting to you?
    But it was not seen by any Bible Student, Jehovah's Witness, or any reader of the Watchtower magazine, was it? We don't know of even one person who would admit to having discerned Jesus reign beginning in 1914. They didn't figure that out for another decade or more, as they still had Jesus' reign tied to 1874 and 1878. And Jesus' invisible presence wasn't discerned in 1914 either, as it was still officially kept as 1874 until about 1943/1944:
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. The millennium that was to be marked by the detaining of Satan the Devil enchained in the abyss and by the reign of the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in heavenly glory was therefore yet in the future. What, then, about the parousia (presence) of Christ? Page 324 of the above book positively says: “The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914.” Also, in the Watchtower issue of July 15, 1949 (page 215, paragraph 22), the statement is made: “ . . . Messiah, the Son of man, came into Kingdom power A.D. 1914 and . . . this constitutes his second coming and the beginning of his second parousía or presence.”
    1914 wasn't fully "discerned" until the 1940's, based on clarifications from 1943, 1944 and 1949. Up until then, they still believed they were already in the millennium, the thousand year reign, because the 6,000 years was still being "discerned" as having ended in 1872:
    *** ka chap. 11 p. 208 par. 51 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    . . . and the six thousand years of man’s existence on earth ended in 1872 C.E. (The Time Is at Hand, page 42) Then the allowance of two years before the entry of sin led to the year 1874 as the year in which six thousand years of human sin terminated and the seventh thousand years for the elimination of sin by Christ’s reign began.
    So neither his kingdom nor his presence were discerned by anyone in 1914, let alone these supposed millions who lived it. The only thing that might have been left was the supposed discernment that the Gentile Times had ended, but in order for that to work they had to completely change the meaning of the phrase "Gentile Times" so that it no longer meant that all nations would stop ruling and all non-Jewish governments would have completely collapsed within 12 months after 1914.
  17. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in Prophecy & Signs, Truth & Conspiracy, Covid-19, the UN, Disgusting Thing, Truth and Conspiracies   
    Yes. I know. We have been through this before.
    It's not new. And I think that the GB would only agree up to a point. In general, the GB now teaches that many more of the verses and teachings in the Greek Scriptures that we once only applied to the Anointed can now have just as much meaning for the "other sheep." And although Galatians 5 starts out as a discussion about those led by the spirit, the GB also understand that the "fruits" of that spirit are for all of us to cultivate. But the GB would likely be very uncomfortable with a view that all of us are brothers (of Christ), and all of us should be led by the spirit. They would likely agree with the general point, but not the way I worded it.
    Again, ALL Christians had to be in union with Christ.
    (John 15:4-10) . . .Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all. 6 If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in union with me and my sayings remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will take place for you. 8 My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love. 10 If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.
    It includes a wide variety of ministries:
    (Romans 12:3-8) . . .each one as God has given to him a measure of faith. 4 For just as we have in one body many members, but the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, although many, are one body in union with Christ, but individually we are members belonging to one another. 6 Since, then, we have gifts that differ according to the undeserved kindness given to us, if it is of prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or if it is a ministry, let us be at this ministry; or the one who teaches, let him be at his teaching; 8 or the one who encourages, let him give encouragement; the one who distributes, let him do it liberally; the one who presides, let him do it diligently; the one who shows mercy, let him do it cheerfully.
    The sanctification is through the ransom, and the ransom is for all:
    (1 Corinthians 1:28-30) . . .and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 so that no one might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom,
    All Christians are shown undeserved kindness, not because there are any who are so special that they deserve to be made holy, or sanctified. It's just that they are washed clean to have an undeserved, but acceptable "holy" standing before God so that we can approach Jehovah in prayer. No one is actually a special, righteous, anointed person who is a "TRUE anointed" who will be above their brothers as a kind of "leader" to follow.
    (1 Corinthians 16:23, 24) 23 May the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus be with you. 24 May my love be with all of you in union with Christ Jesus.
    (2 Corinthians 5:16-19) . . .So from now on we know no man from a fleshly viewpoint. Even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, we certainly no longer know him in that way. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in union with Christ, he is a new creation; the old things passed away; look! new things have come into existence. 18 But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not counting their offenses against them, and he entrusted to us the message of the reconciliation.
    Revelation says this about the "great crowd:"
    (Revelation 7:9-17) . . .After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” ...  And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
     
  18. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in Prophecy & Signs, Truth & Conspiracy, Covid-19, the UN, Disgusting Thing, Truth and Conspiracies   
    When the scriptures mention giving to the holy ones, the term actually refers to all fellow Christians. It's true that the expression could also have a special reference to the apostles and brothers in Jerusalem during Paul's day, but Paul used it more often to mean ALL Christians. It's the same as saying "you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus." And even though it has a special additional meaning to those who know they are chosen for a heavenly hope, it was also demanded of the pre-Christian Jews that they "must be holy as Jehovah is holy."
    (Leviticus 11:45) . . .For I am Jehovah, who is leading you up out of the land of Egypt to prove myself God to you, and you must be holy, because I am holy.
    So it is just as appropriate for those of the other sheep or great crowd who do not expect a heavenly hope.
    (Romans 1:7) 7 to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones:. . .
    (Romans 12:13) . . .Share with the holy ones according to their needs. Follow the course of hospitality.
    (Romans 16:1, 2) . . .I am introducing to you Phoeʹbe, our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in Cenʹchre·ae, 2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones and give her whatever help she may need, . . .
    (Romans 16:15, 16) . . .Greet Phi·lolʹo·gus and Julia, Neʹreus and his sister, and O·lymʹpas, and all the holy ones with them. 16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the congregations of the Christ greet you.
    (1 Corinthians 1:2) . . .to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
    (1 Corinthians 14:33) . . .As in all the congregations of the holy ones,
    (2 Corinthians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy our brother, to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, including all the holy ones who are in all A·chaʹia:
    (Ephesians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are in Ephʹe·sus and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus:
    (Ephesians 1:15, 16) . . .That is why I also, since I have heard of the faith that you have in the Lord Jesus and the love that you demonstrate toward all the holy ones, 16 never stop giving thanks for you. . . .
    (Ephesians 4:11-13) . . .And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, 13 until we all attain to the oneness of the faith. . .
    (Philippians 1:1) . . .Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones in union with Christ Jesus who are in Phi·lipʹpi, along with overseers and ministerial servants:
    (Philippians 4:21, 22) . . .Give my greetings to every holy one in union with Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me send you their greetings. 22 All the holy ones, but especially those of the household of Caesar, send you their greetings.
    (Ephesians 1:4) . . .as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love.
    When the scriptures mention Christ's brothers, it is also referring to all fellow Christians:
    (Matthew 23:8) . . .But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers.
    (Matthew 5:45-48) . . .so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, . . .  47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?
    (Matthew 12:47-50) . . .So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” 48 In reply he said to the one who spoke to him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: “Look! My mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.”
    It is just as important for persons of the great crowd to consider themselves "sons of the Kingdom." We are all God's children, and therefore Christ's brothers.
    (Acts 17:28, 29) . . . For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’ 29 “Therefore, since we are the children of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and design of humans.
    (Romans 8:12-15) . . .So, then, brothers, we are under obligation, not to the flesh to live according to the flesh; 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you are sure to die; but if you put the practices of the body to death by the spirit, you will live. 14 For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”
    According to Paul, we are either led by the flesh or led by God's spirit. This is why we pray to God as "Our Father, in heaven. . . "
    (Galatians 3:26-29) . . .You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.
    We are still heirs with reference to a promise, even if that promise is considered to be paradise on earth instead of heaven. We are either slaves or sons. The sons of the kingdom produce "fruits of the spirit" instead of "fruits of the flesh." Should we think that the following somehow doesn't apply to all Christians?
    (Galatians 5:19-25) . . .Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, 20 idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires. 25 If we are living by spirit, let us also go on walking orderly by spirit.
  19. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in Prophecy & Signs, Truth & Conspiracy, Covid-19, the UN, Disgusting Thing, Truth and Conspiracies   
    Wouldn't it be interesting to see how true Christians might end up distinguishing themselves by the extent to which we give actual food even to our enemies, motivated by our love for Jehovah and Jesus Christ, and our true admiration of a kingdom based on Biblical principles:
    (Matthew 14:14-16) . . .When he came ashore, he saw a large crowd, and he felt pity for them, and he cured their sick ones. 15 But when evening fell, his disciples came to him and said: “The place is isolated and the hour is already late; send the crowds away, so that they may go into the villages and buy themselves food.” 16 However, Jesus said to them: “They do not have to leave; you give them something to eat.”
    (Matthew 24:45) 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
    (Acts 2:43-47) . . .. 44 All those who became believers were together and had everything in common, 45 and they were selling their possessions and properties and distributing the proceeds to all, according to what each one needed. 46 And day after day they were in constant attendance in the temple with a united purpose, and they took their meals in different homes and shared their food with great rejoicing and sincerity of heart, 47 praising God and finding favor with all the people.. . .
    (Acts 6:1-3) . . .Now in those days when the disciples were increasing, the Greek-speaking Jews began complaining against the Hebrew-speaking Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution. 2 So the Twelve called the multitude of the disciples together and said: “It is not right for us to leave the word of God to distribute food to tables. 3 So, brothers, select for yourselves seven reputable men from among you, full of spirit and wisdom, that we may appoint them over this necessary matter;
    (James 2:14-17) . . .Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, 16 yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.
    (Romans 12:20) 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; . . .
    (1 Timothy 5:8) 8 Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.
    Spiritual food and works are still more important in the long run, but I think that sometimes we read verses like Hebrews 10:24, and others, and forget that these referred to material giving:
    (Hebrews 10:24) And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works.
    (Galatians 6:10) . . .So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.
    (Acts 9:36-39) . . .“Dorʹcas.” She abounded in good deeds and gifts of mercy that she was making. . . .  and all the widows presented themselves to him, weeping and showing many garments and robes that Dorʹcas had made while she was with them.
    (Titus 3:8) 8 These words are trustworthy, and I want you to keep stressing these matters, so that those who have believed God may keep their minds focused on maintaining fine works. These things are fine and beneficial to men.
    (1 Timothy 2:10) 10 but in the way that is proper for women professing devotion to God, namely, through good works.
    (1 Timothy 5:9, 10) 9 A widow is to be put on the list if she is not less than 60 years old, was the wife of one husband, 10 having a reputation for fine works, if she raised children, if she practiced hospitality, if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she assisted the afflicted, if she devoted herself to every good work.
    (1 Timothy 6:17-19) . . .Instruct those who are rich in the present system of things not to be arrogant, and to place their hope, not on uncertain riches, but on God, who richly provides us with all the things we enjoy. 18 Tell them to work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be generous, ready to share, 19 safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.
    (Matthew 25:36-40) . . .’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
  20. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in FOUR problems with latest "GENERATION" teaching   
    A couple of other indications that they were not discerning a sign in 1914, is that Rutherford took the 40-year harvest from 1874-1914, and shifted it to 1878-1918, bypassing the significance of 1914.
    1914 hadn't even shown anything significant yet with respect to the Gentile Times, either, which is why by January 1, 1916, the Watchtower had shifted the End of the Gentile Times to 1915:

    Also, it wasn't until May 1922, that the Watchtower first reported on the idea that Russell had announced on October 1, 1914 that "The Gentile Times have ended!" It took nearly 8 years before anyone thought this story was important. And since then the story has been told as happening on October 4, 1914 and and October 2, 1914.
  21. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in FOUR problems with latest "GENERATION" teaching   
    *** Watchtower, October 1, 1930, p.291 ***
    Understanding that the ''day of Christ'' began when Jesus came to the temple of God, in 1918, it appears that the rebellion must precede that day. The beginning of the falling away or rebellion against God's organization would also mark the beginning of the disclosure of the ''man of sin'', even though none of God's children then on earth understood the matter. The Revelation which God gave to Jesus Christ to show to his "servant" began to be disclosed particularly from 1914 forward, but none of God's children on earth had an understanding thereof for fifteen years or more thereafter. They did see the evidence of things coming to pass which mark a fulfilment of Revelation, but they did not discern the meaning thereof. Likewise the faithful have for some years seen the manifestation of lawlessness and now begin to discern the meaning of the term the "man of sin".
    *** end of quote ***
     
    *** Watchtower, November 1, 1931, p. 376 ***
    Who on earth understood prior to 1918 that Zion is God's organization and gives birth to the kingdom and to her children? The fact that no one on earth did so understand prior to the Lord's coming to his temple [in 1918] is proof that it was not God's due time for them to understand. Who understood prior thereto about Satan's organization, the battle in heaven, and the casting of Satan out of heaven?  Manifestly no one could understand these things until the temple of God was open.
    *** end of quote ***
    These are the most direct quotes to start from. Once this context is understood, you can find another ten or so quotes that mean the same thing as "they did not discern" but without using the exact words. It becomes obvious that they did not discern when they "dug in their heels" at hanging on to 1874. 1874 was still officially the "discerned" start of Christ's presence/parousia, and this was repeated often from 1915 and even into the 1930's. (Officially dropped in 1943/1944.)
    Basically, Jesus presence began in 1874, and his coming/advent had also been dated to 1874, but Rutherford often spoke of Jesus coming (erchomai) in 1918. And the End of the Gentile Times could only be proven by events taking place in Palestine, including the resurrection of the ancient worthies like Abraham in 1914. Since the meaning of "Gentile Times" didn't pan out, the meaning was finally officially changed around 1930/1931.
    The September 1, 1930 Watchtower issue says this on pages 201, 202:
    "With the beginning of the second presence of the Lord, approximately A. D. 1875, there was a change in the work. . . .  The evidence seems quite conclusive that the gathering of these members of the body into the temple is almost complete, if not entirely so. The evidence shows that a great separating work has been going on since 1918 and that probably that separating work is not entirely completed, . . . .
     
    The October 15, 1930 Watchtower, p.308 said:
     
    "The second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ dates from about A. D. 1875,"
     
    The idea was barely mentioned for a couple of years, and then in the June 1, 1933 Watchtower (p.174), it goes back to 1874, again:
     
    "The second and invisible presence of Christ dates from about eighteen hundred and seventy-four."
     
    *** Watch Tower, October 1, 1903 [Reprints p. 3249] ***
    "It will be vain for Zionists to hope to establish an independent government in Palestine.... Palestine will be 'trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be filled full'—viz., October, 1914, A.D. By that time the heavenly kingdom will be in power and the ancient worthies—Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all the holy prophets—will be resurrected and constitute the earthly representatives of the spiritual and invisible kingdom of Christ and his Gospel church." *** end of quote ***
     
    [I'm currently travelling and accessing my computer remotely, so I mostly grabbed the above from things written in a 2016 conversation on this forum with Outta Here, Holly W, you, Allen S, etc.]
  22. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    That's pretty simple to answer, thanks for asking.
    Let's say I owed you $100.00, which you only would loan me because I promised to pay you back "within days." I told you that I would pay you back within days saying, "... because these are now the last days before I finally will get my paycheck."  But then, let's say, it went on for a few more weeks and then a whole month. You'd probably remind me about that time when I said we were already in the last days before I would get my paycheck. But my response to you is, "Don't worry! We are now in the final part, the last days of those last days before I get my paycheck." But, one more month goes by and you still don't have your money.
    They say that a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. But, assuming both parties stipulate to exactly what was said above, and both parties are fluent in English, you could go to a small claims court and easily show a breach of promise because the expression "final part of those last days" strongly implies that we are at least in the last half (past the midpoint) of those last days before the promise should be fulfilled. If you, the party who gave the loan, had waited a month, before being told "we are now in the final part, the last days of the those last days" then you should reasonably expect that it would not be another full month of waiting.
    In fact, you would say that I was misleading you. And I couldn't say, as @Outta Here indicated, that you were only misled because you wanted to be misled. Quite the opposite; it would mislead those who don't want to be misled.
    So that brings us to the obvious implication of saying the last days started in 1914 and then saying, in 1967, that we are already in the final part of those last days. It had already been 53 years, in 1967. And it has also been 53 years since 1967. So apparently we were not even in the final half of those last days, in spite of being told something much more specific about where we were in that last part of those last days. In fact, we were told, in 1967, that we were in the last part of the last one-seventh of the last days. (One could even say that this should mean we were likely in the last one-fourteenth of the last days since 1914.)
    But it's completely forgivable, of course, because they weren't claiming they knew for sure, it's just what they were very sure of, and it didn't make sense any other way - based on the length of the generation since 1914, and several ominous factors about the signs of the times. There was also the sureness of others, and this was probably contagious (in a good way) while some brothers in Writing were even "prophesying" that young people would never get old in this system, and never even have the time to start a career, and probably didn't even have time to get a 4-year college degree.
    *** Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 ***
    "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. . . Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!"
    In fact, our Circuit Overseer in 1967-70 (Kent Karras) gave a very rousing talk about the 1967 Watchtower quoted above, and applied it to Joshua encircling the walls of Jericho for 6 days, and how in this final period (the "seventh") we should try to cover our territory more often than we ever did before.
    *** it-2 p. 35 Jericho ***
    . . . once a day for six days the Israelite military force went forth, followed by seven priests continually blowing the horns, behind whom were the priests carrying the Ark, and finally the rear guard—all marching around Jericho. But on the seventh day they marched around the city seven times. At the blowing of the horns on the final march around Jericho, the people shouted a great war cry, and the city’s walls began to fall flat.
    According to my notes, the idea was repeated at the Divine Victory! conventions in 1973, which also included the Joshua/Jericho drama.
  23. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I'm afraid you are misunderstanding completely. @Outta Here said:
    I'm merely showing you how what he is saying is correct. So what you are quoting is a very true statement.
    I'm not saying I believe the last days started on October 4, 1914, I just picked that date because that's pretty close to the day that the Watchtower claims the last days must have started. If they did start then, you could say that everyone since that date has been living in the last part of the last days.
    *** w14 7/15 p. 30 par. 9 “You Will Be Witnesses of Me” ***
    That happened in October 1914, marking the beginning of “the last days” of Satan’s wicked system.
    *** yb75 p. 138 Part 2—United States of America ***
    around October 4/5, 1914 C.E. The people needed to know that through the Messianic kingdom then established Jehovah was ruling as king,
    *** dp chap. 6 p. 97 par. 28 Unraveling the Mystery of the Great Tree ***
    Thus, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, ended by Tishri 15, or October 4/5, 1914 C.E.
    *** po chap. 14 p. 177 par. 19 Triumph for the “Eternal Purpose” ***
    So they would end about that time of the year in 1914 C.E., or about October 4/5, 1914.
    *** ka chap. 12 p. 230 par. 40 Increasing the King’s Belongings ***
    So the end of those Gentile Times about October 4/5 of 1914 should logically witness a reversal of the situation of such long standing. It was therefore not without significance that October 4/5, 1914, found the Gentile nations in trouble, already for two months embroiled in the first world war of human history.
    *** kj chap. 19 p. 352 par. 7 Defeat Awaits Attack by Nations under Gog ***
    they were fulfilled around October 4/5 of the year 1914 C.E.
    Therefore, the following statement is also very true:
    And so is this one:
     
  24. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to JW Insider in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    No matter what the phrase "final part of the last days" implies to you, most Witnesses, and the rest of the world, it is a meaningless phrase for defining where we are within those last days. Outta Here is showing that, if one is in the last days, it is always a true statement. If the last days could be said to start on October 4, 1914, then the final part of the last days could have started on October 5, 1914.
    Since we are now 38,696 days from October 4, 1914, we could divide that period into two parts, if we wished:
    [1st part: 1st day] [2nd part: the next 38,695 days of the last days]
    Therefore we can always be said to be the second part, the final part: the last days of the last days.
    It's a true statement, but I think all of us would agree that it is misleading if it implies that we KNOW we are in the latter half of the period known as the last days. But it doesn't say that. It's a true statement if the end comes tonight, and it's a true statement if the end comes 100 or 1,000 years from now.
    Some would say it's about the same as when Paul said:
    (Romans 13:11, NIV): The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.
     
    The difference is that Paul's statement is not misleading. Because he is referring to a salvation that can be made sure if we have lived our life and fought the fine fight to the finish, or if the Parousia/Judgment arrives before the end of our lives.
    The expression "final part of the last days" or "last days of the last days" is misleading in that it implies that we are at least in the latter half of the last days, without saying it. It makes an implication, but has a loophole. So it's a true statement, even if the end comes 1,000 years from now. But the persons using this phrase are implying that they KNOW it is less than 106 years from now, because they are implying that we are at least in the latter half of the last days. We are all pretty sure that the last days can't go on for another 106 years, so that it is an expression of belief that few would deny, but no one can say that they absolutely KNOW this.
    When this phrase was used in 1967, we were 53 years from October 1914. We are now another 53 years from 1967. We will soon know if we were even in the latter half of the last days, as the Watchtower defines them.
    *** w67 4/1 p. 197 How We Know We Live in the “Last Days” ***
    When the many factors are put together, we find that our generation, our day is the one that is identified in the Bible as the “last days.” In fact, in this year 1967 we are actually living in the final part of that time! This can be compared to, not just the last day of a week, but, rather, the last part of that last day.
    That was much more misleading in that it split the last days into 7 equal parts, and said we were in the last part of the 7th part.
    ----------------------
    ** edited to add: Just to show how sure of himself the writer was (in 1967), even if the 7th equal part of the last days had just started, on April 1, 1967, then those equal parts were a maximum of 3,195 days long apiece, which worked out to be the equivalent of a prediction that the very end of the last days was April 1, 1967 + 3,195 days = December 30, 1975, at the latest.
    Day 1 of the "week" of the last days: Oct. 4, 1914 to July 3, 1923 Day 2 of the "week" of the last days: July 4, 1923 to Apr. 2, 1932 ... ... Day 7 of the "week" of the last days: April 1, 1967 to Dec. 30, 1975. This helps explain the wording of this article just a few months later, in 1968, which indicated that the "end of 6,000 years" would come only weeks or months, not years after [October] 1975:
    *** w68 8/15 pp. 499-500 pars. 30-33 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
    Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” ... And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. ... Exactly how soon after Adam’s creation is not disclosed. ... After the sixth creative day ends, the seventh one begins.
    33 This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God’s leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve’s creation was quickly accomplished, ‘while Adam was sleeping.’ (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time.
     
  25. Upvote
    ComfortMyPeople reacted to Melinda Mills in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    All I can say it that we must love the people; keep honing your skills, as we are being taught at the meetings. Use the telephone and any other safe methods to reach more people.  When I was in Trinidad an old Chinese sister who was a pioneer (she died a couple of years ago) would say: " God is not going to kill any sheep.  So if you want the end to come keep preaching."  Jesus also used to say: "The good news of the Kingdom has to be preached first." The owner of the symbolic vineyard is Jehovah God, and jointly his Son, Jesus.  They are the ones that know when it will have been preached sufficiently.
    I will also again add what Jesus said in Acts 1:7, below:
    *** Bible Citations ***
    6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” 9 After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight. 
    Also what he said at Matthew 24:36-42
    36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 “But know one thing: If the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it. "
    As Rook would say: " It is crystal clear", we are not going to know when the end will come.  Jesus warned us that he will come at an hour that "YOU" (meaning his disciples/true Christians) do not think to be it.  And we know already why he is not going to say.
     

     
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