ComfortMyPeople

I suppose you’re aware your comments are most derogatory and, in my opinion, unfortunate.
For we, the JW's, one of the most reprehensible sins is to be considered as apostate. The Insight book declares under this term:
“…a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. I don’t view myself as apostate, I’ve not abandoned my faith nor my religion.
You probably are worried, sincerely worried and indignant because some in this forum should ponder these principles:
·        Jud 8 “despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones” ·        1Cor 1:10 “you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.” Quoting the Insight-Jonah reference:
“Another evidence testifying to the authenticity of this Bible book is its candor. Jonah’s improper attitude toward his commission and concerning God’s action in sparing the Ninevites is not covered over” This candor is one of the evidences the Bible is the book of God. There is no cover over any sin, mistake or lack of judgment of the anointed ones leading the people.
Where have we learned that Noah got drunk, or David killed Uriah? In false religion’s books of that period?
How did we have knowledge about the fight between Paul and Barnabas, or the lack of judgment of Peter? Through Simon the magician posts?
Why Jehovah didn’t consider it proper to cover these mistakes? You don’t think the Bible is an apostate book because is full with faults of God’s people in all ages, do you?
And these mistakes were presented as such, as errors. Not in the style: “well, we, despite all almost hit the mark.”
The situation is that if we read in the Bible about errors this is proof of their humility. But if we read or talk about our present day mistakes, we’re apostates.
The motivation @JW Insider, me and others share is, precisely avoiding others have the necessity to reach to poisonous places to find some facts we have denied. We have denied because are hidden or “colored”
Regarding the coloration process @JW Insider has provided a lot of PROOFS. I just wish to recall one I’ve written about. Recently we study in our Watchtower study there were errors in last century, for example when the Watchtower gave support to the peace initiative of president Wilson. But, in reality, the petition in our magazine not was a petition to pray for peace, instead, to pray for USA would win the war.
Now, what is it better, to hide this (lack of sincerity / half-truth)? But the information, the real information is spread all around the world. You can easily find the President Wilson exact petition and the word by word article in the 1918 Watchtower.
Regarding the late point. Why have I had to reach “dangerous” sites to get all the Watchtower articles, from 1879? Why my religion didn’t provide a “safe” place to download absolutely all this older literature?
If you read our posts with other glasses you easily see that we’re trying to justify the brothers on charge. But no describing them as “almost-inspired” but as they really are: mere humans.
Now, you mention “unrepentant ones should not be disfellowshipped” but I never have mention this. Expulsion has Bible basis. But the “mechanism” to dealt with has been subject to changes. Do you grant the possibility of new changes? If so, these new changes will try to fix injustices or problems with our position. Meanwhile, what should we do with these injustices? These problems are openly seen by the world and by a lot of loyal brothers.
You also mention that if I don’t believe that Christ begun to rule in 1914 I should leave my religion! Should have I abandon when the 1975 affair?
What backbone, determinant, core teaching is 1914 for you! But not hundreds, nor thousands, but hundreds of thousands of brothers can’t explain which is the Bible basis for this teaching!! Should they leave their religion?
I and other with this posture firmly believe we’re serving with the people Jehovah is using for His purpose. But, remember, @bruceq, sometimes God’s people has needed cleaning. Why not now? Is, perhaps, more relevant the role of the present-day GB than the older times apostles? If Christ had to clean the seven congregations (in spite of the apostles influence) why in these days is impossible a new cleaning, in spite of the GB influence?

I suppose you’re aware your comments are most derogatory and, in my opinion, unfortunate.
For we, the JW's, one of the most reprehensible sins is to be considered as apostate. The Insight book declares under this term:
“…a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. I don’t view myself as apostate, I’ve not abandoned my faith nor my religion.
You probably are worried, sincerely worried and indignant because some in this forum should ponder these principles:
·        Jud 8 “despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones” ·        1Cor 1:10 “you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.” Quoting the Insight-Jonah reference:
“Another evidence testifying to the authenticity of this Bible book is its candor. Jonah’s improper attitude toward his commission and concerning God’s action in sparing the Ninevites is not covered over” This candor is one of the evidences the Bible is the book of God. There is no cover over any sin, mistake or lack of judgment of the anointed ones leading the people.
Where have we learned that Noah got drunk, or David killed Uriah? In false religion’s books of that period?
How did we have knowledge about the fight between Paul and Barnabas, or the lack of judgment of Peter? Through Simon the magician posts?
Why Jehovah didn’t consider it proper to cover these mistakes? You don’t think the Bible is an apostate book because is full with faults of God’s people in all ages, do you?
And these mistakes were presented as such, as errors. Not in the style: “well, we, despite all almost hit the mark.”
The situation is that if we read in the Bible about errors this is proof of their humility. But if we read or talk about our present day mistakes, we’re apostates.
The motivation @JW Insider, me and others share is, precisely avoiding others have the necessity to reach to poisonous places to find some facts we have denied. We have denied because are hidden or “colored”
Regarding the coloration process @JW Insider has provided a lot of PROOFS. I just wish to recall one I’ve written about. Recently we study in our Watchtower study there were errors in last century, for example when the Watchtower gave support to the peace initiative of president Wilson. But, in reality, the petition in our magazine not was a petition to pray for peace, instead, to pray for USA would win the war.
Now, what is it better, to hide this (lack of sincerity / half-truth)? But the information, the real information is spread all around the world. You can easily find the President Wilson exact petition and the word by word article in the 1918 Watchtower.
Regarding the late point. Why have I had to reach “dangerous” sites to get all the Watchtower articles, from 1879? Why my religion didn’t provide a “safe” place to download absolutely all this older literature?
If you read our posts with other glasses you easily see that we’re trying to justify the brothers on charge. But no describing them as “almost-inspired” but as they really are: mere humans.
Now, you mention “unrepentant ones should not be disfellowshipped” but I never have mention this. Expulsion has Bible basis. But the “mechanism” to dealt with has been subject to changes. Do you grant the possibility of new changes? If so, these new changes will try to fix injustices or problems with our position. Meanwhile, what should we do with these injustices? These problems are openly seen by the world and by a lot of loyal brothers.
You also mention that if I don’t believe that Christ begun to rule in 1914 I should leave my religion! Should have I abandon when the 1975 affair?
What backbone, determinant, core teaching is 1914 for you! But not hundreds, nor thousands, but hundreds of thousands of brothers can’t explain which is the Bible basis for this teaching!! Should they leave their religion?
I and other with this posture firmly believe we’re serving with the people Jehovah is using for His purpose. But, remember, @bruceq, sometimes God’s people has needed cleaning. Why not now? Is, perhaps, more relevant the role of the present-day GB than the older times apostles? If Christ had to clean the seven congregations (in spite of the apostles influence) why in these days is impossible a new cleaning, in spite of the GB influence?

I usually avoid trying to explain myself in any detail, but with this specific confluence of comments, I'll take that risk. I've said several of these things before, but this time I'll do it without scriptures, so that no one need take it too seriously.
First, I believe that we all have a Christian duty to test, prove, make sure, and question. Some don't believe that, and that's just fine, too -- for them. Second, as you might imagine, I am not really anonymous to everyone, after giving away enough of my history, experiences, background, family history, age, year of marriage, year of baptism, past locations, current location. So I would agree that much of this is a lot like writing a long drawn-out letter to the Society. I have already talked openly (on this subject) to a few current members of the Writing Dept, which includes two of the current GB Helpers. These are brothers I have known long enough to feel "safe." I have also put some of my questions in writing, but I do admit that these have also been effectively anonymous. I am a coward! I no longer have any direct contact with any GB members. I have talked to Brother Lett longer than any of the others, but that was in his most recent assignment before being asked to join the GB. If this is considered bragging, I don't consider it so, but it's only right that I present enough of my background, my biases, and my reasons. Third, I chose this forum because the number of participants is low, especially the number who will engage in doctrinal discussions. I do not choose to have such open discussions with anyone in our congregation, or any other congregation. My wife, parents, a former Bethel roommate, a current Bethelite, and an uncle who is a circuit overseer, are the only regular exceptions. This is because if someone reacted in an immature way to something I said, or I was misquoted or misunderstood, then unnecessary problems could arise. On a forum, I can try to choose my words more carefully, edit when I go too far, etc. But more than that, a forum gives everyone deniability in the sense that no one has to accept that I'm telling the truth. Some who have studied and questioned the same issues will recognize that I am trying to tell the truth, but if someone else here does not wish to deal with the same questions then they can (and will) simply dismiss me as a crack-pot or apostate or haughty braggart. That's actually the beauty of a forum. I don't have to feel that I am presenting anything to anyone who doesn't want to hear it. A forum provides this "utility" by default, because there will always be someone with the views of bruceq, or AllenSmith, coming to the rescue to provide what they feel is a proper warning to others. Just in case that's not enough, I always try to utilize a fairly direct presentation style and a much-too-long-and-wordy style that will also provide a turn-off to those who don't want to deal with it, and will act as a kind of filter to make sure that those who wish to follow really do wish to follow. Fourth, on the issue of apostate (ex-JW) websites or books. I don't go to or refer anyone to apostate websites. I don't quote from ex-JW websites. I own 5 of the books people consider to be highly apostate, but all of these books are also books that the Society also owns. Also, the 5th of these books, was recommended by Brother Harry Peloyam while on the phone to the Society to get an answer to a question I had on the Hitler/Rutherford letter. He literally recommended M. James Penton's book on Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich. I have two books by Raymond Franz, one by Carl Olof Jonsson (which I purchased in the midst of a discussion with Rolf Furuli), and two books by M. James Penton. I also bought two books by B. W. Schulz, although I have never checked to see if any of the writers/researchers are ex-JWs or apostates, yet. The Society's Writing Department, while I was there, kept at least one copy of most of the apostate books in a separate cabinet from the main libraries. After I left Bethel, I'm told by someone who has used them, that they purchased at least two copies of all these same books I just mentioned for the "apostate cabinet." In any particular topic, I have waited for someone else (e.g., Allen Smith) to begin quoting books by Raymond Franz (or, if necessary, Carl O. Jonsson) before quoting from them myself. From what I remember, there has been no quoting from apostate books or sites by anyone on this particular topic. Fifth, I have already admitted that I handled research assignments for both the Art Dept while working there for 4 years, and simultaneously handled research assignments for Brother Schroeder for just about three full years at Bethel and 2 more years after leaving. This involved a lot of reading of both the older and the newer publications and even proofreading some materials that came from the Teaching Committee. It's not like I was in the Writing Department, but I was in the Bethel and Gilead libraries almost daily and sometimes even in Brooklyn and Manhattan libraries at times. This did put me in contact with many members of the Writing Dept and several became life-long friends. And, yes, I grew to dislike a couple of them, too. Sixth, I'm a firm believer in transparency. I think that so many things would be much easier to understand and we would be seen as much more honest if we just stated what we know, without trying to hide anything. I think that in these days of search tools and databases that nothing remains hidden anyway. So we might as well get out in front of some of the issues that we wish would just go away. I think there is nothing wrong with showing the human side of people we have worked with, and admitting our own foibles, too. Knowing that Jehovah has worked with imperfect people and still accomplished so much is not anything to be ashamed of, just as it wasn't something that the Bible tries to hide from us when discussing various Bible characters. Seventh, Anna actually noticed the very point that triggered this particular conversation. I have had similar conversations here before, but never put all the potential related items out there to deal with at the same time. In fact, I've argued against doing this in the recent past. I think that it's easier to get through items of dirty laundry, or embarrassing episodes, or problematic doctrinal proof-texts, if we deal with them one at a time. But in this case, I put out several issues related to 1914 all at once. That's because the video about 1975 that has been brought up really does refer to putting the scriptures ahead of current teachings when something doesn't seem right. In this case, what doesn't seem right (to me) is the fact that every single feature of the 1914 doctrine is "problematic" in some way from a scriptural point of view. It actually seems surmountable when we deal with just one at a time, so that wouldn't have made the point as well about what "seems" wrong. Well, enough for now . . .
 

Here is the ACTUAL original article that was faked in the image @Bible Speaks attached.
It was actually published about January 1914, not October 1876 as depicted in the fake version, a time period when Russell had spoken about losing faith in 1914 because it was becoming more difficult to believe that all the things they expected to occur could still occur in the next few months. In the Watch Tower publications Russell even spoke about how a person living 100 years from now (that would be 2014) might look back on what he had written and have a laugh about it. 
 

Not all of these recommendations were in the publications; some came from the talks during the circuit overseer's visit, and district overseers were encouraged to arrange special talks on the subject of 1975.  The May 1974 Kingdom Ministry was one of the publications that spoke to this issue directly. I'm quoting almost the entire article to give a better sense:
*** km 5/74 p. 3-4 How Are You Using Your Life? ***
. . . Are we not thankful that Jehovah God has purchased us and that we now belong to Him? . . . The apostle Peter noted that if we have the proper mental disposition we will be moved to “live the remainder of [our] time in the flesh, no more for the desires of men, but for God’s will.”—1 Pet. 4:2.
Is that what you are doing? Are you living no longer simply to satisfy personal ambitions or desires, but to do God’s will? Are there ways in which you could share more fully in doing the will of God?
God’s Will for Us
Jehovah makes clear in his Word that his will for us today includes accomplishing a great work of Kingdom-preaching before the end of this system comes. (Matt. 24:14) . . . Jesus did not hold back, but was whole-souled in his service to God. . . . Jesus knew that he had only a short time, and he did not spare himself in finishing his assignment. Should we not today be imitating his example, especially since we have such a short time left now in which to complete the Kingdom-preaching?
Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity? In this regard we can learn something from a runner who puts on a final burst of speed near the finish of a race. Look at Jesus, who apparently stepped up his activity during his final days on earth. In fact, over 27 percent of the material in the Gospels is devoted to just the last week of Jesus’ earthly ministry!—Matt. 21:1–27:50; Mark 11:1–15:37; Luke 19:29–23:46; John 11:55–19:30.
By carefully and prayerfully examining our own circumstances, we also may find that we can spend more time and energy in preaching during this final period before the present system ends. Many of our brothers and sisters are doing just that. This is evident from the rapidly increasing number of pioneers.
Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.—1 John 2:17.
Circumstances such as poor health or responsibilities in connection with your family may limit what you can do in the field ministry. And yet, the pioneer ranks include many who have health limitations, as well as some persons with families. But these brothers and sisters are able to regulate their lives so that they can care for their responsibilities and still put in the 1,200 hours a year, an average of 100 hours a month in the field ministry, required of pioneers.
Therefore, do not be too quick to dismiss the possibility that you, too, may be able to pioneer. Give it careful and prayerful consideration. Perhaps an analysis will reveal that your life is encumbered with needless weights that can be put off so that you can pioneer. Particularly may this be the case if you are single, or are married but have no children.—Heb. 12:1.
So, then, ask yourself: How am I using my life? Can I make adjustments that will enable me to pioneer? If I can, will failure to do so indicate to Jehovah that I am living to satisfy personal desires, rather than to do His will? Every one of us wants to be able to say, as did the apostle Paul, “Indeed, the life that I now live in flesh I live by the faith that is toward the Son of God, who loved me and handed himself over for me. I do not shove aside the undeserved kindness of God.” Gal. 2:20, 21. . . .
So do not delay in giving serious consideration to this matter of how you are using your life. See if you can arrange your affairs to pioneer. Why not discuss the matter with persons already pioneering or with elders in your congregation?
I was part of that 34% increase, one of the 20,394 who had started regular pioneering in the summer of 1973. It included a lot of persons just quitting high school at 16, 17, or having just graduated at 18. I was still 15 when I quit school, and got my diploma through a test when I was 16, which was the only way my father would let me pioneer -- if I already had a diploma and I met with the circuit overseer to talk about it first. The encouragement not to pursue further education came from the circuit overseer and from discussions of talks and of articles such as one below. The core point of the article is found in the two predictions. I added the years [in brackets] that would have gone through your head if you read this in 1969, which helped me decide to quit school in 1973.
If you are a young person you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years.  . . .  Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, [1973] perhaps even six [1975] or eight more years [1977] to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone!"  -- Awake! May 22, 1969, page 14-15.
At Bethel, the Awake! magazine was put into "MEPS" format back to 1950 at the same time as the Watchtower. This is what allowed the publications go into the first Watchtower Library CD's. In fact, if you call the Watchtower Society and ask them to look up something in the Awake! they actually use a Watchower Library CD that takes the Awake! back to 1946. I can't think of any reason they decided to take it only as far back as 1970 on the public CD except perhaps this article from 1969. The Watchtower goes back to 1950 on the public CD.
I think it brings some reproach even to bring it up again without honestly explaining why people thought that they wouldn't grow old. They would have never just "thought" that on their own. They were specifically "told" that they would not grow old in this system. Bringing up these old issues at an assembly as a way to claim that it has now been addressed and to show a certain lesson that was learned from it is not helpful unless it's done openly and honestly. The lesson should probably be quite different than the lesson we are now told to learn from that time period. The lessons should probably be that we always let our reasonableness be known to all, and obey God as ruler rather than men, and never allow ourselves to think of any of our elders as if they were in the seat of Moses. Without those lessons, even though all the brothers mean well, it's easy to drift back into an attitude where we can forget our own personal responsibility towards Jehovah and the congregation.
*** w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today ***
(2) When “the Assyrian” attacks, the elders must be absolutely convinced that Jehovah will deliver us. (3) At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.
*** w13 11/15 p. 24 par. 14 Obey Jehovah’s Shepherds ***
To survive the tenth plague, the Israelites had to obey the instructions to have a special meal and to splash some of the blood of a slaughtered sheep on the doorposts and lintels of their houses. That direction did not come to them by means of a voice out of heaven. No, they had to listen to the older men of Israel, who in turn received specific instructions from Moses. (Ex. 12:1-7, 21-23, 29) In those circumstances, Moses and the older men acted as bearers of Jehovah’s instructions to his people. Christian elders fulfill a comparably vital function today.
(Matthew 23:2) 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses.
Even in a recent article with good information in it warning us against apostates, note how easy it is to slip into the idea that instructions are coming from our leaders instead of from our Leader.
*** w17 July pp. 29-30 Winning the Battle for Your Mind ***
A soldier whose loyalty to his leader is weakened will not fight well. So propagandists attempt to break bonds of confidence and trust between a soldier and his commander. They may use such propaganda as: “You cannot trust your leaders!” and “Do not let them lead you into disaster!” To add weight to these attacks, they may cleverly exploit any mistakes those leaders might make. Satan does this. He never gives up trying to undermine your confidence in the leadership that Jehovah has provided.
Your defense? Be determined to stick to Jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface. (1 Thess. 5:12, 13) Do not be “quickly shaken from your reason” . . .
 

Yes I remember such talks, but they were not the only talks I heard.
I suppose I was spoilt early on for this sort of pressure.  I learnt two things (which may or may not be orthodox), but they have stood me in good stead and, I believe, have served to prevent me from being quickly shaken from my reason or to be alarmed. (2Thess.2:2)
1. I shared lodgings with for a while with Hendry Carmichael, (Yearbook 1977 p81-83). I learned many things from this zealous, Glaswegian brother. He once said to me, with his twinkling blue eyes a-sparkle, "You know laddie, your Armageddon came the day you heard the good news, because what you do with it will make an everlasting difference to your future!".
2. Over the years, I have been blessed with many, wonderful bible studies who have progressed to dedication and baptism, including a woman who is now my wife and pioneer partner. She said to me recently that it sadddens her sometimes to hear that the end is as imminent as many brothers emphasize. I know what she means. If the end had come in 1975, she would not have found the truth. (And nor me, her). And when it does come, there will be no others to save out of this wicked world. I know the resurrection will afford unimaginable opportunities to help people learn the truth of God's puposes, but we are meeting new ones all the time now, and starting new studies, in a part of the world I was told is "unproductive"!
So what am I saying? Well, my Armageddon (figurative of course), has long come and gone, and I am making every effort to ensure that when the real one does, I am rightly disposed for everlasting life.(Acts 13:48). And as far as the time left is concerned? Well, every day in this system of things, lives are being saved in evidence of Jehovah's patience. (Ex.18:23) And we can have as much a share in this as our volunteer sprit impels. (2Cor.9:6-7) There is no organisation on earth that facilitates this work in the way that Jehovah's Witnesses do. (Mich.4:1-2)
And that I think, for me anyway, captures the essence of 1Tim.4:16: "Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you."

Thanks for the response. I tagged your name there in case I had it wrong. You might have been enlightened through a yoga epiphany or something you read, after all.
Yes, it was "merely" the end of 6,000 years but with an important catch that every circuit overseer repeated at each visit for a while there. Whenever Eve was created, that's when the 6th day ended. The great tribulation would start exactly 6,000 years from Eve's creation. So we'd get talks about how Adam had ONLY ONE JOB! To name the animals. And he didn't have to go to them, they came to him. After seeing all the animals he recognized he needed a mate, too. It could have been a matter of months, or even weeks, NOT YEARS!
*** w68 8/15 p. 499 par. 30 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
If it was not years then, in standard English, it could be one year, possibly 1.1 to 1.9 years, but must be less than two years. This was why the Awake! article indirectly mentioned 1977 as a time when this system would be well on its way out, if not actually gone. This is saying that it probably must happen before October 1977. Whether you put the emphasis on the "probably" or the "must" was a kind of a test of how mature you were, or how much you trusted the Governing Body. (In those days the Governing Body was still just another name for the  "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society."
So everything fit so well, because the generation of 1914 should have been at least 10 to 15 years old by 1914 to "discern" the significance of the sign. That meant they were born around 1900. That meant they were going to be about 75 years old by 1975. A Biblical lifespan is 70 or 80; so that's also about 75. So, not just the end of the 6,000 years, but the year 1975 itself, became the "appropriate time for God to act." At the very worst, in the mind of Fred Franz and those willing to echo him, it meant no more than 5 years past 1975. This is why we got articles that said "What will the 1970's bring?" And that article talking about it being a matter of a few "months" at the most "not years" after 1975. Even with a few "age" adjustments for the 1914 generation, several of the publications and assembly talks continued to mention that this system of things could not go on past the end of the twentieth century. That type of talk lasted until 1989.
For all I know, I did much better than I might have otherwise. At any rate, I have enjoyed all aspects of service, an my only complaint in life right now is stiff knees, and I never get enough sleep. But I still feel badly for those who made decisions without proper guidance, context, support, and who were left without a back-up plan. We have to at least participate in the responsibility of our decisions anyway.
*** w14 4/15 pp. 25-26 par. 17 Be of Good Courage—Jehovah Is Your Helper! ***
17 Seek Jehovah’s direction before you make decisions and commitments, not after making them. Pray for his holy spirit, wisdom, and guidance. (2 Tim. 1:7) Ask yourself: ‘Under what circumstances am I willing to obey Jehovah? Even under persecution?’ If so, are you willing to obey him when it may mean having to lower your standard of living? (Luke 14:33) Ask the elders for Scriptural advice, and show your faith and trust in Jehovah’s promise to help you by following his counsel. The elders cannot make decisions for you, but they can help you make choices that will lead to happiness in the long run.—2 Cor. 1:24.
 

Where they disrespectful?
Ex 18:17: Moses’ father-in-law said to him: “What you are doing is not good.” A non-Israelite making amends to the greatest prophet!
2Sam 12:7: Then Nathan said to David: “You are the man! (Murderer and adulterer!)
1Chro 21:3 “But Joab said: “May Jehovah multiply his people 100 times! My lord the king, are not all of them already servants of my lord? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he become a cause of guilt to Israel?” The anointed interpellated as causing trouble to the nation!
Gal 2:14 “But when I saw that they were not walking in step with the truth of the good news I said to Cephas before them all…” Even the behavior was anything but exemplary.
Likewise, JWInsider, me and other have scriptural evidence that disagreement is not equal to disrespect. We’re not saying the GB are persons that deceitfully want to exploit us. On the contrary, many of us think these brothers are, basically faithful and prudents. We would not want to be marked with these strong words: (Jud 8) “…despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones…”
But we think the brothers in the GB are LIKE US… mere mortals, mere humans, imperfects. With their phobias and philias. They, like me, are afraid of losing authority or credibility when recognizing mistakes. They, like me, are afraid the humbles ones perhaps start thinking this is not the correct religion when seeing mistakes…
Do these commentaries make others to stumble?
Do vaccines hurt? Absolutely. The necessary hurt to get immunity. You probably are aware Native Americans almost disappeared because their bodies lacked defenses. And this is our intention (JWInsider and me). To inoculate defenses against doubts asking the similar questions these other brothers would find, sooner or later.
And don’t obviate the obvious! We’re are active JW. We’re giving support to this people. We’re following the direction of the brothers on authority… year after year, for decades.

Where they disrespectful?
Ex 18:17: Moses’ father-in-law said to him: “What you are doing is not good.” A non-Israelite making amends to the greatest prophet!
2Sam 12:7: Then Nathan said to David: “You are the man! (Murderer and adulterer!)
1Chro 21:3 “But Joab said: “May Jehovah multiply his people 100 times! My lord the king, are not all of them already servants of my lord? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he become a cause of guilt to Israel?” The anointed interpellated as causing trouble to the nation!
Gal 2:14 “But when I saw that they were not walking in step with the truth of the good news I said to Cephas before them all…” Even the behavior was anything but exemplary.
Likewise, JWInsider, me and other have scriptural evidence that disagreement is not equal to disrespect. We’re not saying the GB are persons that deceitfully want to exploit us. On the contrary, many of us think these brothers are, basically faithful and prudents. We would not want to be marked with these strong words: (Jud 8) “…despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones…”
But we think the brothers in the GB are LIKE US… mere mortals, mere humans, imperfects. With their phobias and philias. They, like me, are afraid of losing authority or credibility when recognizing mistakes. They, like me, are afraid the humbles ones perhaps start thinking this is not the correct religion when seeing mistakes…
Do these commentaries make others to stumble?
Do vaccines hurt? Absolutely. The necessary hurt to get immunity. You probably are aware Native Americans almost disappeared because their bodies lacked defenses. And this is our intention (JWInsider and me). To inoculate defenses against doubts asking the similar questions these other brothers would find, sooner or later.
And don’t obviate the obvious! We’re are active JW. We’re giving support to this people. We’re following the direction of the brothers on authority… year after year, for decades.

Where they disrespectful?
Ex 18:17: Moses’ father-in-law said to him: “What you are doing is not good.” A non-Israelite making amends to the greatest prophet!
2Sam 12:7: Then Nathan said to David: “You are the man! (Murderer and adulterer!)
1Chro 21:3 “But Joab said: “May Jehovah multiply his people 100 times! My lord the king, are not all of them already servants of my lord? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he become a cause of guilt to Israel?” The anointed interpellated as causing trouble to the nation!
Gal 2:14 “But when I saw that they were not walking in step with the truth of the good news I said to Cephas before them all…” Even the behavior was anything but exemplary.
Likewise, JWInsider, me and other have scriptural evidence that disagreement is not equal to disrespect. We’re not saying the GB are persons that deceitfully want to exploit us. On the contrary, many of us think these brothers are, basically faithful and prudents. We would not want to be marked with these strong words: (Jud 8) “…despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones…”
But we think the brothers in the GB are LIKE US… mere mortals, mere humans, imperfects. With their phobias and philias. They, like me, are afraid of losing authority or credibility when recognizing mistakes. They, like me, are afraid the humbles ones perhaps start thinking this is not the correct religion when seeing mistakes…
Do these commentaries make others to stumble?
Do vaccines hurt? Absolutely. The necessary hurt to get immunity. You probably are aware Native Americans almost disappeared because their bodies lacked defenses. And this is our intention (JWInsider and me). To inoculate defenses against doubts asking the similar questions these other brothers would find, sooner or later.
And don’t obviate the obvious! We’re are active JW. We’re giving support to this people. We’re following the direction of the brothers on authority… year after year, for decades.

I appreciate your position on these chronology issues. I held on to some of them just as strongly as you from the time I was four until I was nearly twenty-four. I might have still been hanging on to them, even now, if it weren't for the fact that my assignment at Bethel put me right next to a member of the Governing Body (B.Schroeder) who had his own questions, and who also lashed out at others who had questions about them. While looking for solutions to some of these same questions, I became friends with other researchers, especially three non-GB brothers who had been the Writing Department's team researching articles for the "Aid Book" (now "Insight"). Some of them had been asked to look over the initial manuscript from an elder in Sweden, who had done a lot of research himself. The brother who assigned my research projects only showed me portions of it, and I didn't see the whole thing until another Brother, (F.Rusk) let me see it as he was working on it. This brother (Rusk) also gave the main part of my wedding talk (with the vows), and one of the brothers from the Aid Book research team also gave 30 minutes of my wedding talk.
But this manuscript, now a book, was of very little interest to me, because it was mostly about archaeological reasons not to try to "anchor" anything on 607. I was only interested in Bible topics, and didn't really think that counted. I don't think I would have necessarily discovered any of this on my own, and therefore I probably wouldn't even be here if it were not for discovering that several members of the Governing Body, and several members of the Writing Department also had doubts and questions about 1914 and related chronology issues, from a Biblical perspective.
So, now that you have impugned and imputed motives for me, I will let what you know what my real primary motives are:
Love of the Truth, Love for the whole association of brothers, A clean conscience, Of course, I realize you probably don't believe this, and further, you probably could not admit that you believed it if even you knew it was true. I'd prefer to assume that you are like me, when I was in your shoes, and preferred not to think about such questions, and assumed that anyone who asked me to think too strongly about such questions was some kind of apostate.
But, I can also explain why I have presented what I have on this particular forum. A conversation or presentation of information about the topic, still cannot happen in a normal congregation setting. This doesn't mean that it is not important to question. It is your Christian duty to question every claim, at least if you wish to be noble-minded.
I think that most of us who are willing to open up about these questions online all realize that we can't do this in our congregations, and yet we also realize that it is important to question. In a forum like this, where ideas can be exchanged, and challenged, we are also able to question without the same kind of effect that it would have inside the congregation. That's because no one needs to believe that we are sincere, if they don't want to. It's easy to dismiss any challenge by just saying things like: "I don't believe it;" "I don't want to look at the evidence;" "I think anyone who questions such things is probably an apostate." No one need be stumbled, because such information and questions are already all over the internet. 
Yet from the perspective of a Witness who has such a question, on a forum, they can ask any question and it is technically no different from any other person on the street asking such a question. Someone can say Trinity is taught in the Bible, and we can either defend our belief, ignore it, assume the person is sincere, assume the person is insincere, assume they are an ex-JW who has gone back like a dog to his vomit, assume they are just like a neighbor we met in service last week, assume they are dishonest, assume they are honest --- the point is that it doesn't matter. They are online, and we are online too. Therefore we are all subject to the rough and tumble world of online discussion -- a forum for ideas.
We can't claim we are stumbled by a non-Witness we meet at the door who could ask the very same question. Yet, they might have read about our belief in an apostate book or from an apostate site. In fact, a sincere non-JW we meet at the door, may be sincerely curious about whether or not something he or she read or heard is true or not. We could always just say: "Oh, we don't answer that particular question because it was once asked by an apostate." We don't think of doing that for questions about hell-fire or Trinity, or neutrality yet many of us are instantly inclined to respond like that if the question is about 1874, 1925, 1975, pyramids, miracle wheat, Hitler.
In fact, I've noticed that we are usually quite willing to discuss 1914 and its repercussions on other doctrines until WE start realizing that the questions are difficult. At that point, we tend to assume the question is no longer sincere, but is some kind of attack. And that's only based on the level of difficulty. We don't generally start lashing out and making accusations when we feel that our foundation is more solid, as it is on Trinity, hell-fire, neutrality, war, etc.
Now I admit that I made it easy for anyone who is uncomfortable to back away from the conversation when I mentioned the "deception" that invariably accompanies chronology doctrines, especially as time goes on, and no one wants to display their dirty laundry. This is a surprising point to a lot of people but it's easy to find the evidence. How many times have you heard or read something in the Watch Tower publications that sounded like this:  "Decades in advance, the Bible Students as Jehovah's Witnesses were known at the time, announced that 1914 would see the start of a great time of trouble." This has never been true. Decades in advance, 1914 was seen as the END of a great time of trouble not the beginning.
The July 15, 1894, Watch Tower said:
"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble."
Granted, an adjustment to the doctrine occurred one decade prior to 1914, but not "decades" and it was not consistently held to for that entire decade in any case. This could be an honest mistake, even though it has been made at least a dozen times, but it still deceives people into thinking that it's a true statement. However, if we KNOW this, then we should renounce any association with such a claim for the sake of our conscience:
(2 Corinthians 4:2) But we have renounced the shameful, underhanded things, not walking with cunning or adulterating the word of God; but by making the truth manifest, we recommend ourselves to every human conscience in the sight of God.
However, my main goal here is not to highlight the "deceptions." These occur almost naturally and should be expected. My goal is to open up the discussion so that if it is wrong, or I am going down the wrong track, I can be corrected. If there is more to learn on the subject (and for me there is more to learn on any subject) the ideas are out there for anyone who is concerned to add to the discussion, and point out what's wrong. If we have questions on such a serious subject we should not keep them to ourselves, and we should not hold back from asking. We should test every expression, even if we feel it is as good as inspired. (1 Jn 4:1; 2 Th 2:2) It would be underhanded for us to keep such things hidden.
(Mark 4:22) 22 For there is nothing hidden that will not be exposed; nothing is carefully concealed that will not come out in the open.
I was also hoping to find others who might be willing to discuss some of these issues out in the open, and this has already occurred. There are several people who appear willing to discuss it further and I am very interested learning from their views. (Especially on Revelation 11 and 12 with @ComfortMyPeople since I think he has given this more thought than I have.) If you are not interested any further on this type of discussion, and that's your choice, of course.  But I'm sure you'd have something worth considering if you did participate.

I take this as a kind of rhetorical question. I think you have already pointed out why much of what happens on the human side of organizations is exactly what we would expect to happen. Similar issues came up in the first century congregations.
Each of us has a responsibility to question. But not everyone is in a position to take their own questions seriously, due to having already put that responsibility onto others. But that's also a natural consequence of our imperfection. So it's not ours to judge the level of understanding of anyone else. It's not ours to judge who was put in charge of much, or who thought they were put in charge of much. But in any case the principle is true. It shows up again when James says that "not all of you should become teachers." It shows up in Hebrews 13:17 "for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account." And Hebrews 5:12 shows that it's unavoidable that we will also have the need to rely on teachers. 
(Hebrews 5:12-14) 12 For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong.
But none of these scriptures are specifically about the persons who publish and promote our doctrines. These scriptures are about all of us: all elders, and all others, too. All of us are expected to be stewards.
(1 Peter 4:10) 10 To the extent that each one has received a gift, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God’s undeserved kindness that is expressed in various ways.
(1 Corinthians 4:2) 2 In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful.
So the principle is surely for all of us. Faithfulness is expected of all of us. And the greater the responsibility, the more seriously we should take it. We may push off our responsibilities onto others, but ultimately:
(Galatians 6:4-6) 4 But let each one examine his own actions, and then he will have cause for rejoicing in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person. 5 For each one will carry his own load. 6 Moreover, let anyone who is being taught the word share in all good things with the one who gives such teaching.

I specially agree with the sentence: “…faithful ones prove willing to be corrected and humbly adjust their views.” But we are still anchored to this doctrine -1914 date- for more than a century. Does it show humility?
Could you show scriptural proof that thing as the Gentile Times has something to do with Daniel 4? Reread please my bullet points about “violates the five fingers”.
I feel gratitude toward Jehovah because He has blessed Russell and others to discover the basic foundational, core teachings that are the framework of our doctrines.
But, regarding dates and prophecies… no one become accurate. Remember, by decades they thought the pyramid was a channel from God!
Now, some one could say: “still remains 1914 no matter they were wrong in all its meaning”.
But to base ALL our eschatology in a date not only is risky, but contrary the scriptures.
Think for a moment. Do you really need this date at all to serve Jehovah with all your soul? Did Abraham need a date? No. Perhaps first Christians? Neither. Why you and me?
I really needed a date when I was young. But this date made me quite fanatic. I used to preach “the end is at hand.” I used to focus on earthquakes and wars. What lack of appealing had my preaching work!
Now here I am. Still preaching with all my soul. I’m not focusing in past dates as the beginning of the Kingdom. I’m eagerly expecting the future “adventum” of this kingdom. My ministry, sure as yours, is more attractive, more focused in kingdom blessings or the beauty of Bible.
I sincerely believe that, sooner or later, at Jehovah due time, this 1914 doctrine will disappear. The later the worse.
By the way. I must admit that I’ve had the privilege to meet a lot of humble brothers. The troops (I can’t find the English word for normal no privileged persons). As it rises in our organization, I’ve had more difficulties finding this humility. Perhaps that would explain that some cherished doctrines are so difficult to remove.

(Luke 12:47, 48) ". . .Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him."
Will these words be fulfilled? Were they a symbolic warning? 

(Luke 12:47, 48) ". . .Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him."
Will these words be fulfilled? Were they a symbolic warning? 

I can see that this "tossing about" appears to have definitely been the case for some of you, particularly those with a long history and previous generations of relatives associated with the morphing movement we know today as Jehovah's Witnesses. 
My own first hand experience with legacy association was with a friend, much older than me, whose father was one of the first two to become Bible Students in the UK in the 1880s. This gave me a good grounding in some of the "cloud-cuckoo-land" ideas held at various times over the years. 
That Pyramid stuff??? Wow! One of the first calls I ever had even before baptism was an actual Pyramidologist. That was an experience for someone who had only been associated 3 months.
It must be quite embarrassing to look back and realise what nonsensical rubbish (not just Pyramids) was actually taken seriously at one time, especially if you actually promoted it. The notion that one's loyalty is tested by moving with adjustments and avoiding the understandable temptation to "bite the hand that feeds" is likely not so far from the truth. Probably the 1975 thing is the most glaring example I have personally experienced, although I was thankfully enlightened about the erroneous expectations attached about 1972 or so, and seem to have avoided the "hysteria" others appear to have experienced. I'm looking forward to the Assembly bit on this. In fact,  I think I'll watch in advance as I will probably miss it with Assembly work as my "listening" Assembly has been cancelled due to "terrorism"!
As for strange Bethel behaviour, I remember one of our COs who told me that the first time he heard 4-letter words regularly used was in Bethel! However, Willi Diehl's father understated the matter perfectly in 1931 when he warned his son that "the brothers there are not angels"! (WT 1 Nov 1991 p26)
Funny though, I have never really been subjected to the intensity of weirdness that some others emphasize like the "subliminal art" stuff, or "personal Bible study policing" although these things obviously go on, and I have known some casualties.
I have experienced some child abusers and dodgy elders in my time, but have seen them get their come-uppance. 
Apart from time out to raise children, I have pioneered most of the time so this work and the responsibility of helping others to clean up their lives have been the main focus for me. The experience of observing the way applying Bible principles really changes people's lives for the better so radically has been enough to convince me of Jehovah's active involvement, and has likely minimised the effect of some of these other issues that apparently trouble so many.
So, enjoyed the exchange @JWInsider and other regular contributers. I'll be back some time, but for now I really have...........

[Referring especially to the half-dozen or so doctrinal changes related to the term "generation" through the years, along with numerous other doctrinal changes with respect to Matthew 24 & 25:]
That supposed anchor, as you called it, is just a "pretend" anchor anyway, allowing the doctrinal boat to drift along and shift and change, and get tossed about, and even require "tacking" which is a way that a boat can try to fight against the wind, and literally end up in a place that was exactly the opposite of where the "wind" was leading. (Note: Hebrew ruahh, spirit, wind)
(Ephesians 4:14) . . .So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.
*** w81 12/1 p. 27 par. 2 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
2 However, it may have seemed to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward. At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case. This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as “tacking.” By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds. . . . .19 Of course, such development of understanding, involving “tacking” as it were, has often served as a test of loyalty for those associated with the “faithful and discreet slave.”
The seriousness of the problem is that any reliance on chronology almost always involves deception. [even if that deception was not intentional] That's the point made in Ephesians 4:14. [In previous discussions evidence for all of the following points have been made and no one had any counter-evidence:]
There have already been at least a dozen times that the Watchtower has made claims about dates, including 1914, that were plainly not true. There have been claims about what was supposedly predicted decades prior to 1914 that you yourself have seen were not true. A video from the convention implies that the reason for the problem about 1975 started in the local congregations. This same implication has been made many times before. It has almost always been implied that most of what was expected for certain dates, even dates back into the 1800's were mostly correct, even though they were totally false. There has sometimes been a claim that minimizes the error, saying things like: they were expecting the right thing but at the wrong time; or That a particular false teaching was actually better than the true Biblical teaching, because it produced a necessary test of God's people, or That the wrong understanding helped bolster them for a time when they needed to stand up more strongly against enemies. The Watchtower has even gone so far as to print completely unsubstantiated, and flatly wrong, "scholarship" which has obviously deceived people into thinking there was some truth behind it. [Furuli's books, Appendix to the "Kingdom Come" book in 1981, etc.] This has been done by selective quoting, or by using the work of scholars who have been deceitful with evidence. The publications have produced statements about what we can know and what we cannot know about chronology through archaeology and history that have also proved to be deceptive.
I'm not claiming that the motive was dishonesty. People can easily be blinded by what they want to see. But the end result on the readers and audiences is still "deception."
A good example is the way in which C.T.Russell used measurements of the Great Pyramid. (It's an old enough example that it won't invoke biases for or against the current Governing Body, who are doing the exact same type of thing today.) His famous books, "Millennial Dawn" (Studies in the Scriptures) sold by the millions of copies worldwide. His most infamous doctrine was the proof that the Great Pyramid was "Jehovah's witness" in stone. It foretold the dates predicted in the Bible. Here is what he started saying in 1890, in Volume 3, along with an approving letter from an Egyptologist, and other information showing how some of the measurements in the Pyramid were accurate to within a fraction of an inch. (Where each "inch" represented a year, of course.)
"So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year BC 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years from the above date, BC 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years BC plus 1874 years AD. equals 3416 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the Bible testimony on this subject...   [all editions of Volume 3, prior to 1910]
Then he made a correction in 1910 when other Bible Students were getting very much involved in corroborating these numbers:
"So, then, if we measure backward down the "First Ascending Passage" to its junction with the "Entrance Passage," we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year BC 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, BC 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years BC plus 1915 years AD. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation -- no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the' Bible testimony on this subject..."
It doesn't matter if Russell was personally trying to be deceitful. He made this change without an explanation and the exact same data that once pointed to 1874 now pointed to 1915. (For a time 1915 was considered the Jewish "year" beginning in October 1914 through September 1915. But this was not consistent. As they got closer to the 1914 date, and stopped believing that all they had predicted was possible, there were statements that effectively would have meant that 1915 could even start in October 1915 and therefore run into 1916. It was the Great European War starting in mid-1914, that brought most of this diffusion back into a focus on 1914. Since then, the false claims made about Russell's predictions in a newspaper called "The World" have been quoted in Watch Tower publications about as often as any specific predictions made in our own publications.)
Russell used pseudo-archaeology to bolster his belief in the period from 1874 to 1914. The Watchtower has since used pseudo-archaeology to bolster the belief in the period from 1914 to the Great Tribulation.

I’m exhausted following this topic.
I think this thread about 1914 reflects very well the negative aspects reflected in these words:
(1 Timothy 1:4) “…nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith…”
1914. Only available to intelligent people.
When I was a teenager I felt very proud with myself because I was able to explain by heart the seven times prophecy. Perhaps only a third in my congregation, or less, could explain this reasonably well.
Nowadays, I doubt if a few of the brotherhood could express intelligibly why we believe in the importance of this date. So, what about this basic principle?
(1 Corinthians 1:26) “…For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, …” I’m amazed with the struggle with different technics to determine the accuracy or lack of exactitude of 1914. Even astronomic calculus with specialized software! Thanks, JWInsider! Plus a lot of historical and archeological skills.
And, by the way. The humbler and less able to explain “deep” ideas like this, the more faith I see that these brothers have. More than me.
1914. A polysemic date.
JWInsider has explained to the satiety that from its very beginning this date was conceived with other and changing meanings. Perhaps the most important change was to think that Christ’s presence started in 1874, and 1914 would mark the end of the human domination on Earth. Our present understanding is, as you all know, that Jesus started as king and his presence at that date.
1914. We need more than the Bible
But other post, recently, has put it very clear, and I fully agree:
(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial … so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work…” But now, it turns out that I must learn Archeology and History to determine the exact date Jerusalem was conquered 2500 years ago!
1914. In opposition to the spirit and the letter of Jesus’s words.
The advice in the following passages is to live each day as if the Master could arrive in any moment. No trying to determine the length of a period of time, in order to calculate the prolongation of the “last days”,
(Matthew 24:42) “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming…” But we officially believe Jesus really came in 1914, and from this date he is present… in fact ruling! The idea of two different kinds of arrivals (1914 as king, later as executor), this differentiation is not in the Bible. There is only ONE arrival.
 1914. It’s a date. The Christians didn’t utilize dates as a foundation of their faith
*** w14 2/15 p. 27 Questions From Readers ***
Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at Daniel 9:24-27? While that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed. The fact is that there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding.
In reality, we all know no Jesus nor Paul in writing to the Hebrews made use of the dates in the 70 weeks prophecy to proof that Jesus was the Messiah. Why should we different regarding 1914?
1914. Violates the “five fingers” process.
As I’ve expressed in other post. If we take verses on each side of the Bible we are incurring in a real danger of twisting the Scriptures. Let’s see.
·        What scriptural proof is there to consider Nebuchadnezzar type of Christ? ·        What scriptural proof is there to think the Nab. kingship represents God’s kingdom? ·        What proof is there to think the madness of the king represents the situation with God’s kingdom? ·        With what authority can we apply the rule of one day for a year in Num 14:34 or Eze 4:6 to Daniel’s prophecy? ·        Could we sure the term “times” in Daniel 4 and in Lu. 21:24 apply to the same period? o   What’s the basis for this? o   Does not it seem to fit word for word Lu 21:24 and Rev. 11:2? o   Why, then, to base all our knowledge about the last days in a mere possibility? 1914 Alternatives. First Century fulfillment?
JWInsider has pointed out the idea that Jesus was crowned in the first century. Even postulating that Revelation 12 was fully fulfilled at that time. I think that to consider that important parts of Revelation were fulfilled in the first century is going to the other extreme. It’s my humble opinion.
Yes, it’s true that Revelation mention some past happenings, well direct or indirectly.
(Revelation 1:5, 6) “… who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— and he made us to be a kingdom, priests…” And mention some of the developments as if they had already happened
(Revelation 11:15) “…The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ…” But we could reach to another explanation WITHOUT HANGING in 1914. This better explained in another place. Suffice for now to think that these happenings took place neither in the first century nor in 1914.
What problems arise with the first century fulfillment of Revelation?
Rev 11:15-18 links the start of the kingdom to the resurrection time. These verses are a preamble of the next chapters, including the vision of chapter 12.
(Revelation 11:15, 18) “…you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king …and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones…” (Revelation 12:10-17) “…Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom …So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, ...” There are remaining ones because some of them are on heaven while other are still enduring on earth. So, the resurrection has already begun in Rev. 12 time
But the resurrection didn’t happen in the first century:
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) “…we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death …that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first…”  
How many times was David crowned?
·        (2 Samuel 2:4) “…Then the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David as king over the house of Judah…”
·        (2 Samuel 5:3) “…So all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them in Hebron before Jehovah. Then they anointed David as king over Israel.”
In the same way, why could not be possible to view Jesus crowned in the first century, when he went to heaven, as many verses seems to probe and as JWInsider has aptly showed us?
And, at the same time, why could not be possible to expect a new crowning ceremony in the future, in the Revelation time?
I find it possible, unlike JWInsider opinion, because I think he (JWI) has mentioned the riding of the horsemen of Revelation 6 starts with the resurrection of Christ in 33, and the wars, pests and famine are the habitual conditions from then. But this is hard to me to believe. Why?
Because the “second” coronation (Rev.6) is marked with victories, conquers (Rev.6:2). But what happened from the end of first century until recent times? The apostasy, the dark ages… the contrary to victory.
I’ve already presented my view, error prone obviously, that the colored horses could mean victories of the King against enemies, not society conditions.
And, finally, in this way, we have that it’s perfectly possible the modern time fulfillment of Revelation (above all chapter 12), the coronation of Jesus in 33 (mainly, but not only over his congregation ) and modern times coronation when Jehovah order Him: “conquer your enemies”
Please, please, please… it isn’t necessary 1914 at all! What if the coronation, most of the Revelation fulfillment is still future? Well, this is theme for other day…

I’m exhausted following this topic.
I think this thread about 1914 reflects very well the negative aspects reflected in these words:
(1 Timothy 1:4) “…nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith…”
1914. Only available to intelligent people.
When I was a teenager I felt very proud with myself because I was able to explain by heart the seven times prophecy. Perhaps only a third in my congregation, or less, could explain this reasonably well.
Nowadays, I doubt if a few of the brotherhood could express intelligibly why we believe in the importance of this date. So, what about this basic principle?
(1 Corinthians 1:26) “…For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, …” I’m amazed with the struggle with different technics to determine the accuracy or lack of exactitude of 1914. Even astronomic calculus with specialized software! Thanks, JWInsider! Plus a lot of historical and archeological skills.
And, by the way. The humbler and less able to explain “deep” ideas like this, the more faith I see that these brothers have. More than me.
1914. A polysemic date.
JWInsider has explained to the satiety that from its very beginning this date was conceived with other and changing meanings. Perhaps the most important change was to think that Christ’s presence started in 1874, and 1914 would mark the end of the human domination on Earth. Our present understanding is, as you all know, that Jesus started as king and his presence at that date.
1914. We need more than the Bible
But other post, recently, has put it very clear, and I fully agree:
(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial … so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work…” But now, it turns out that I must learn Archeology and History to determine the exact date Jerusalem was conquered 2500 years ago!
1914. In opposition to the spirit and the letter of Jesus’s words.
The advice in the following passages is to live each day as if the Master could arrive in any moment. No trying to determine the length of a period of time, in order to calculate the prolongation of the “last days”,
(Matthew 24:42) “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming…” But we officially believe Jesus really came in 1914, and from this date he is present… in fact ruling! The idea of two different kinds of arrivals (1914 as king, later as executor), this differentiation is not in the Bible. There is only ONE arrival.
 1914. It’s a date. The Christians didn’t utilize dates as a foundation of their faith
*** w14 2/15 p. 27 Questions From Readers ***
Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at Daniel 9:24-27? While that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed. The fact is that there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding.
In reality, we all know no Jesus nor Paul in writing to the Hebrews made use of the dates in the 70 weeks prophecy to proof that Jesus was the Messiah. Why should we different regarding 1914?
1914. Violates the “five fingers” process.
As I’ve expressed in other post. If we take verses on each side of the Bible we are incurring in a real danger of twisting the Scriptures. Let’s see.
·        What scriptural proof is there to consider Nebuchadnezzar type of Christ? ·        What scriptural proof is there to think the Nab. kingship represents God’s kingdom? ·        What proof is there to think the madness of the king represents the situation with God’s kingdom? ·        With what authority can we apply the rule of one day for a year in Num 14:34 or Eze 4:6 to Daniel’s prophecy? ·        Could we sure the term “times” in Daniel 4 and in Lu. 21:24 apply to the same period? o   What’s the basis for this? o   Does not it seem to fit word for word Lu 21:24 and Rev. 11:2? o   Why, then, to base all our knowledge about the last days in a mere possibility? 1914 Alternatives. First Century fulfillment?
JWInsider has pointed out the idea that Jesus was crowned in the first century. Even postulating that Revelation 12 was fully fulfilled at that time. I think that to consider that important parts of Revelation were fulfilled in the first century is going to the other extreme. It’s my humble opinion.
Yes, it’s true that Revelation mention some past happenings, well direct or indirectly.
(Revelation 1:5, 6) “… who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— and he made us to be a kingdom, priests…” And mention some of the developments as if they had already happened
(Revelation 11:15) “…The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ…” But we could reach to another explanation WITHOUT HANGING in 1914. This better explained in another place. Suffice for now to think that these happenings took place neither in the first century nor in 1914.
What problems arise with the first century fulfillment of Revelation?
Rev 11:15-18 links the start of the kingdom to the resurrection time. These verses are a preamble of the next chapters, including the vision of chapter 12.
(Revelation 11:15, 18) “…you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king …and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones…” (Revelation 12:10-17) “…Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom …So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, ...” There are remaining ones because some of them are on heaven while other are still enduring on earth. So, the resurrection has already begun in Rev. 12 time
But the resurrection didn’t happen in the first century:
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) “…we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death …that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first…”  
How many times was David crowned?
·        (2 Samuel 2:4) “…Then the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David as king over the house of Judah…”
·        (2 Samuel 5:3) “…So all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them in Hebron before Jehovah. Then they anointed David as king over Israel.”
In the same way, why could not be possible to view Jesus crowned in the first century, when he went to heaven, as many verses seems to probe and as JWInsider has aptly showed us?
And, at the same time, why could not be possible to expect a new crowning ceremony in the future, in the Revelation time?
I find it possible, unlike JWInsider opinion, because I think he (JWI) has mentioned the riding of the horsemen of Revelation 6 starts with the resurrection of Christ in 33, and the wars, pests and famine are the habitual conditions from then. But this is hard to me to believe. Why?
Because the “second” coronation (Rev.6) is marked with victories, conquers (Rev.6:2). But what happened from the end of first century until recent times? The apostasy, the dark ages… the contrary to victory.
I’ve already presented my view, error prone obviously, that the colored horses could mean victories of the King against enemies, not society conditions.
And, finally, in this way, we have that it’s perfectly possible the modern time fulfillment of Revelation (above all chapter 12), the coronation of Jesus in 33 (mainly, but not only over his congregation ) and modern times coronation when Jehovah order Him: “conquer your enemies”
Please, please, please… it isn’t necessary 1914 at all! What if the coronation, most of the Revelation fulfillment is still future? Well, this is theme for other day…

I fully agree! I share the feelings of many if I say that JWInsider  has helped us to think a lot deeper. And his  commentaries reveal a lot of knowledge! Thanks JWI for sharing

I fully agree! I share the feelings of many if I say that JWInsider  has helped us to think a lot deeper. And his  commentaries reveal a lot of knowledge! Thanks JWI for sharing

Some apostates of Christendom say Jesus became King in 33 C.E. [or sometime in the first century]  Yet in 33 C.E. the Apostles asked Jesus "WHEN" are you restoring the Kingdom. So obviously that teaching of Christendom is wrong as is the Trinity, Hellfire and Immortal Soul. Acts 1:6. And this was "after" he was given all authority. But obviously not Kingdom authority because that came much later in 1914.  
  In 33 C.E., Jesus made it clearly known that the corulers who would assist the King of God’s Kingdom would be taken from the earth and raised to life as spirit creatures in heaven. His disciples, though, did not immediately understand this revelation. (Dan. 7:18; John 14:2-5) In that same year, Jesus indicated by means of illustrations that the Kingdom would not be established until a LONG TIME AFTER he ascended to heaven. (Matt. 25:14, 19; Luke 19:11, 12) The disciples did not comprehend this vital point and later asked the resurrected Jesus: “Are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at THIS TIME?” Jesus, however, chose not to reveal any more details AT THAT time. (Acts 1:6, 7).
“Respecting the PRESENCE of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal MESSAGE {internet blog} or through a letter as though FROM US, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. Let no one [including bloggers] seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the APOSTASY COMES FIRST and the man of lawlessness gets revealed.”—2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
{So the "presence" is long after the First Century as the apostasy would be revealed first and of course Jesus' illustrations regarding that Kingdom. And notice the apostasy is related to the presence of Jesus as they [the apostates] would say he came at THAT time and not a later time} 
{"FROM US" at 2 Thess. 2:1-3 - obviously INTERPRETATIVE AUTHORITY came from JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION not from individual bloggers who think they have insider interpretative authority.} 

the JW inside must be too, with all these notes, making for all of us ! I say thanks, for all the good research.

 
 

"Many will rove about and the true knowledge will become abundant".
Thanks JWI and ComfortMYPeople for this exchange. This is also roving about.
 However, as Archive@L had said earlier quoting 1 Cor 13:12  "at present I know partially but then I shall know accurately" .  Most Bible students acknowledge that understanding of any prophecy is confirmed only after its fulfiilment. But JWI kindly reminded us of the scripture in 1 Peter 1:10-12 about making a diligent inquiry and a careful search and continuing our investigation. ( So we must not get tired of the rumble and tumble. We seniors are pretty tough! Smile! Notice the energy of JWI and how well he writes?  If you miss me, though, I might be getting a beauty sleep.)
The faithful slave has just adjusted something surrounding when the anointed came out of Babylon the Great. There will also be other adjustments.   
Comfort, that was well set out and a good synopsis.                 

I’m exhausted following this topic.
I think this thread about 1914 reflects very well the negative aspects reflected in these words:
(1 Timothy 1:4) “…nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith…”
1914. Only available to intelligent people.
When I was a teenager I felt very proud with myself because I was able to explain by heart the seven times prophecy. Perhaps only a third in my congregation, or less, could explain this reasonably well.
Nowadays, I doubt if a few of the brotherhood could express intelligibly why we believe in the importance of this date. So, what about this basic principle?
(1 Corinthians 1:26) “…For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, …” I’m amazed with the struggle with different technics to determine the accuracy or lack of exactitude of 1914. Even astronomic calculus with specialized software! Thanks, JWInsider! Plus a lot of historical and archeological skills.
And, by the way. The humbler and less able to explain “deep” ideas like this, the more faith I see that these brothers have. More than me.
1914. A polysemic date.
JWInsider has explained to the satiety that from its very beginning this date was conceived with other and changing meanings. Perhaps the most important change was to think that Christ’s presence started in 1874, and 1914 would mark the end of the human domination on Earth. Our present understanding is, as you all know, that Jesus started as king and his presence at that date.
1914. We need more than the Bible
But other post, recently, has put it very clear, and I fully agree:
(2 Timothy 3:16, 17) “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial … so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work…” But now, it turns out that I must learn Archeology and History to determine the exact date Jerusalem was conquered 2500 years ago!
1914. In opposition to the spirit and the letter of Jesus’s words.
The advice in the following passages is to live each day as if the Master could arrive in any moment. No trying to determine the length of a period of time, in order to calculate the prolongation of the “last days”,
(Matthew 24:42) “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming…” But we officially believe Jesus really came in 1914, and from this date he is present… in fact ruling! The idea of two different kinds of arrivals (1914 as king, later as executor), this differentiation is not in the Bible. There is only ONE arrival.
 1914. It’s a date. The Christians didn’t utilize dates as a foundation of their faith
*** w14 2/15 p. 27 Questions From Readers ***
Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at Daniel 9:24-27? While that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed. The fact is that there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding.
In reality, we all know no Jesus nor Paul in writing to the Hebrews made use of the dates in the 70 weeks prophecy to proof that Jesus was the Messiah. Why should we different regarding 1914?
1914. Violates the “five fingers” process.
As I’ve expressed in other post. If we take verses on each side of the Bible we are incurring in a real danger of twisting the Scriptures. Let’s see.
·        What scriptural proof is there to consider Nebuchadnezzar type of Christ? ·        What scriptural proof is there to think the Nab. kingship represents God’s kingdom? ·        What proof is there to think the madness of the king represents the situation with God’s kingdom? ·        With what authority can we apply the rule of one day for a year in Num 14:34 or Eze 4:6 to Daniel’s prophecy? ·        Could we sure the term “times” in Daniel 4 and in Lu. 21:24 apply to the same period? o   What’s the basis for this? o   Does not it seem to fit word for word Lu 21:24 and Rev. 11:2? o   Why, then, to base all our knowledge about the last days in a mere possibility? 1914 Alternatives. First Century fulfillment?
JWInsider has pointed out the idea that Jesus was crowned in the first century. Even postulating that Revelation 12 was fully fulfilled at that time. I think that to consider that important parts of Revelation were fulfilled in the first century is going to the other extreme. It’s my humble opinion.
Yes, it’s true that Revelation mention some past happenings, well direct or indirectly.
(Revelation 1:5, 6) “… who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— and he made us to be a kingdom, priests…” And mention some of the developments as if they had already happened
(Revelation 11:15) “…The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ…” But we could reach to another explanation WITHOUT HANGING in 1914. This better explained in another place. Suffice for now to think that these happenings took place neither in the first century nor in 1914.
What problems arise with the first century fulfillment of Revelation?
Rev 11:15-18 links the start of the kingdom to the resurrection time. These verses are a preamble of the next chapters, including the vision of chapter 12.
(Revelation 11:15, 18) “…you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king …and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones…” (Revelation 12:10-17) “…Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom …So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, ...” There are remaining ones because some of them are on heaven while other are still enduring on earth. So, the resurrection has already begun in Rev. 12 time
But the resurrection didn’t happen in the first century:
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) “…we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death …that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first…”  
How many times was David crowned?
·        (2 Samuel 2:4) “…Then the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David as king over the house of Judah…”
·        (2 Samuel 5:3) “…So all the elders of Israel came to the king at Hebron, and King David made a covenant with them in Hebron before Jehovah. Then they anointed David as king over Israel.”
In the same way, why could not be possible to view Jesus crowned in the first century, when he went to heaven, as many verses seems to probe and as JWInsider has aptly showed us?
And, at the same time, why could not be possible to expect a new crowning ceremony in the future, in the Revelation time?
I find it possible, unlike JWInsider opinion, because I think he (JWI) has mentioned the riding of the horsemen of Revelation 6 starts with the resurrection of Christ in 33, and the wars, pests and famine are the habitual conditions from then. But this is hard to me to believe. Why?
Because the “second” coronation (Rev.6) is marked with victories, conquers (Rev.6:2). But what happened from the end of first century until recent times? The apostasy, the dark ages… the contrary to victory.
I’ve already presented my view, error prone obviously, that the colored horses could mean victories of the King against enemies, not society conditions.
And, finally, in this way, we have that it’s perfectly possible the modern time fulfillment of Revelation (above all chapter 12), the coronation of Jesus in 33 (mainly, but not only over his congregation ) and modern times coronation when Jehovah order Him: “conquer your enemies”
Please, please, please… it isn’t necessary 1914 at all! What if the coronation, most of the Revelation fulfillment is still future? Well, this is theme for other day…