Gnosis Pithos

TTH bashing???

I'm breaking up my last post into two posts after all, so that the E.R.A. machine information and suggestions about telepathy etc, do not get too mixed up with the rest of the discussion. I've also added a longer quote from Russell at the end where he speaks to the rise in spiritism and psychic phenomena.
On page 79, 80 of his book on spiritism, Greber apparently touches upon the phenomenon that lies behind the E.R.A. machines that the Society once promoted:
Od flows through all parts of terrestrial bodies and radiates beyond them to a certain distance. This radiation which surrounds terrestrial bodies has been called 'aura' by your scientists. Everything in creation has such an odic aura.... The odic aura surrounds the material body like a halo.... This force manifests itself by vibrations of the od.... All thought and volition are expressed in the corresponding odic vibrations, set in motion by the spirit, as the bearer of the od.... A sage of ancient times observed: 'Everything is in a state of flux'. He should have said: 'Everything is in a state of vibration'.... You will see at once that the harmony in odic vibrations stands for beauty, health, happiness, peace and good fortune, whereas discord in such vibrations must be the cause of ugliness, sickness, suffering and unhappiness. (Page 79,80) I didn't want to get back into the "Goodrich, Abrams, Woodworth, Hudgings, Rutherford" discussion of a previous thread, but the connection seems obvious. Dr. Abrams made it obvious by turning the discussion about the power of these Radio Vibration healing machines (and RDK: Radio Disease Killer machine) into one about mental telepathy that could work much farther away from the person being healed. Also, in spite of Woodworth's denials that this type of healing had anything to do with spiritism, it seems he inadvertently admitted that he knew just how close to the edge he was playing when he tried to negate some of the theories that Upton Sinclair had made in a book called "Mental Radio":
Sinclair Mixing Up in Demonism  UPTON SINCLAIR has written a book, Mental Radio, narrating the experiments of himself and his wife in telepathy. He says, in one place, "The subconscience answers questions, and its answers are always false.... the deep mind, answers questions too, and these answers come, not quietly, but as if by inspiration...." We merely add that the demons are teasing Mr. Sinclair. (Golden Age, January 20, 1932, p. 249.) In 1925 The Golden Age even published an article, quoting Brother (Dr.) Pottle showing how these ERA machines might explain palmistry, phrenology, physiognamy, chiromancy, etc:
It also explains why the character of men can be described in terms of facial features, known as Physiognomy, or cranial characteristics with the scientific term of Phrenology, or even by the fingernails or by the palm, or by the spine, or by the feet. There are books published on each of these arts separately; and if we were only sufficiently intelligent we undoubtedly could determine what a person thinks or does chiefly, his qualifications, etc., merely from a piece of his skin, a hair, or a drop of blood. Abrams scientifically demonstrated this fact in many details, although experiments are as yet in their infancy. The body throughout tells our story of life; the vibrations show what we are, and do not lie. (Golden Age, February 25, 1925, p. 333.) I read somewhere else that the Golden Age claimed that it rarely ever reviewed a book unless they thought it was very important. And Upton Sinclair and Angels and Women were two that got formal reviews.
Russell seemed to believe that mental telephathy was possible too, based on this quote from the Golden Age, February 25, 1925:
...thought is conducted by an electronic vibratory method. Dr. Abrams was the first to demonstrate that theory through a mechanical instrument. It also explains the hitherto mysteries of so-called mental telepathy, mind reading, and woman's intuition, of which Pastor Russell spoke upon several occasions. (p. 332) As to just how the prayers of one may benefit another we may not know. We have not sufficient information to philosophize on it very deeply. We might surmise certain mental influences proceeding from one to another, just as we know electrical influences to proceed from one station to another thousands of miles away. The powers of the mind are something not comprehended. We can influence ourselves, and, to a certain extent, influence another. One mind can influence another without a word, by some telepathic power. (Russell, source not found, sermon?) God created Father Adam the king of earth. Had he remained loyal to his God, he would have retained not only his life and health and happiness, but also his kingly authority over the beasts, the fish and the fowl--ruling them with telepathic powers. (Russell, Watch Tower, February 1915, p. 5636) I add the following from the August 1909 Watch Tower p.227 (4441) just to show the same point made in this thread that spiritism was gaining ground even among scientists and professors and persons of high station. I only kept the heading "Spritism Conquering Scientists" because it was apparently intended to be a bit provocative, but there were several other headings between other paragraphs that I left out, so it isn't that the entire article was focused on this one heading.  Russell mentions Eddyism (Christian Science) and the Emmanuel movement about the use of "suggestion" as a help to patients. (Elsewhere Russell identified hypnotism with spiritism.)
SPIRITISM CONQUERING SCIENTISTS
. . . The Bible alone gives us the key to Spiritism's power, showing that it is by the fallen angels, demons, who personate the dead so as to deceive mankind and to favor various falsities and superstitions built upon the error that the dead are alive. The Bible also foretells that at this time the wise men of the world will be deceived. Note the evidence of this in the following item which is going the rounds of the press:-- "Mme. Blavatsky was exposed in India by a strenuous Australian investigator, Richard Hodgson, who afterward settled down in Boston, where he became head of the old American branch of the British Society for Psychical Research, and where also he met Professor James, who took him to see Mrs. Piper. Dr. Hodgson studied this woman for eighteen years and she convinced him that telepathy, automatic writing and communication with the dead were bona fide phenomena. To give her a special test, Dr. Hodgson arranged a unique course of experiments, in which he was aided by Dr. James H. Hyslop, professor of logic and ethics at Columbia. . . . "The professor masked himself and disguised his voice during his visits to her, and while she lay unconscious, with her head upon a pillow resting on a table, her hand wrote out messages alleged to come from his father. She converted Hyslop to the spiritistic hypothesis, and his announcement of the fact made a stir in the scientific world. He and Hodgson formed a compact that whoever died first would communicate with the other, and Professor Hyslop expressed some time ago his satisfaction that he has received messages from Hodgson since the latter's death.
"Across the deep no less a proportion of thinking men have turned their thoughts in the same direction. Caesare Lombroso, the great Italian criminologist and anthropologist, after having studied the medium, Eusapia Paladino, has announced his belief in disembodied spirits, although he does not indorse the theory of the return of the dead. Professor Charles Richet, of the Faculty of Medicine, Paris, is a French leader in psychical research work and claims to have photographed the spirit of a Spanish soldier, while Camille Flammarion, the French astronomer, is now an aggressive convert to Spiritism. He says that he has proved that such phenomena as the movement of chairs without contact and the suspension of heavy tables in space are bona fide.
"No less than an ex-prime minister has recently been a leader of the ghost hunters of England, where he recently served as president of the Society of Psychical Research. He insists that science cannot explain the psychic wonders which he has witnessed. While he headed the society it made a special investigation of 350 cases of aparitions of the dying in England and Wales, and of these fifty-two cases were accepted as beyond the laws of chance or the possibility of fraud.
"William T. Stead has become a medium, so he now says--a writing medium, not one of the tambourine and trumpet band. At first the noted editor accepted telepathy and claimed to have written down the thoughts of living men many miles away. Then, of late years, he alleges, he has gotten into close communion with the dead. But it is only this year that he claims to have developed automatic writing, his right arm becoming impassive while its fingers guide a pen over paper on which appear letters from his son, the brilliant young writer, William, who died a year ago last Christmas eve. Mr. Stead claims that this writing appears without his exercising any will power to either hold the pen or move it.
"If the English-speaking public was surprised to hear that Mr. Stead had strayed thus far into the spiritualist camp, it was startled to learn a few months ago that Sir Oliver Lodge, head of the University of Birmingham, had announced his belief in such communication with those beyond the grave. In a recent journal of the Society for Psychical Research he has given details of messages which he claims to have received from dead members of the society through the pen of a writing medium."
"The spread of Eddyism and the Emmanuel movement merely emphasises the fact that we have another potent weapon at our command," said Dr. William H. Dieffenbach, of New York, in his annual presidential address to the National Society of Physical Therapeutics, affiliated with the American Institute of Homeopathy, which was recently in session in Detroit.
"The use of suggestion to patients," continued the doctor, "should be studied and taught as should every other agent promising relief in the cure of the sick."

I'll think about your post later. but will just provide some detail to keep inclusion of this detail on topic.
I came across the Atlantean Society many years ago when I was searching for answers, prior to studying the Bible. It was in an article in a volume of Pears Cyclopedia in a section on beliefs which I no longer possess. What I found curious was that they claimed (maybe still do?) spirit contact with some(one?) who had lived in Atlantis which was, they held, the antideluvian world which had been catastrophically ended.
Although interest in Atlantis persists, I haven't been able to to find much information on this paticular group now (the information wasn't on gold plates I promise), but I was curious as it seemed connected in view of this thread's subject matter and the era. In fact, along with the Theosophical movement, it might well deserve a place on Anna's list.  I was hoping someone else might have some knowledge. 

I don't mind bringing it back to its A&W roots here. Angels and Women (A&W) was already discussed around these parts once, and I think you had apparently done some good research on it, if I remember right. I don't think it does much good to guess what was going on in the minds of Russell, Woodworth and Rutherford, but Allen pointed to the particular Golden Age magazine that provides an explanation for a start.
I think we can start there or even go back a little farther. (To the first announcement in The Golden Age, July 30, 1924, p. 702.) I have numbered some sentences and paragraphs of that article so I can reference them.
Review of Book    "ANGELS AND WOMEN" is the title of a book just off the press. It is a reproduction and revision of the novel, "Seola" which was written in 1878, and which deals with conditions prior to the flood. Pastor Russell read this book with keen interest, and requested some of his friends to read it because of its striking harmony with the Scriptural account of the sons of God described in the sixth chapter of Genesis. Those sons of God became evil, and debauched the human family prior to, and up to, the time of the great deluge. We call attention to this book because we believe it will be of interest to Bible Students, who are familiar with the machinations of the devil and the demons and the influence exercised by them prior to the flood and also now in this evil day. The book throws light on the subject and is believed, will aid those who carefully consider it to avoid the baneful effects of spiritism, now so prevalent in the world. The book is revised and published by a personal friend of Pastor Russell, and one who was close to him in his work. It is published by the A. B. Abac Company, New York city. The publishers advise that the regular price of the book is $2.00; but to all subscribers to The Golden Age, it will furnished at $1.00 per volume, when ordered in lots of ten or more. This is not an advertisement, but a voluntary comment. Remember that this is from the first announcement in July. It wasn't until December 1924 that they started explaining what they thought was most important about the book. The original book was written in 1878, which brings up an interesting question (speculative) about whether Russell read it prior to a point he made in the very first Watchtower in July 1879 when he said that truth is truth even if it comes from Satan. This was a phrase that both Rutherford and Woodworth re-quoted from Russell on occasion.
But Russell said more on the subject. I don't want to skip too much from context so I will only deal with this first point from the numbered paragraphs above in this post:
In a 1911 Watch Tower, with the same idea repeated again in 1914, Russell claimed that some of the "fallen angels" were probably already being judged in fulfillment of Paul's words saying "Do you not know that we will judge angels?" Russell thought these would be the same angels held in Tartarus in bonds of dense darkness. But now released with a higher degree of freedom. Depending on how they handled this freedom, some would no doubt be repentant and gain forgiveness. The following is from the September 1911 Watch Tower in the article: "The Judgment of the Angels." Keep in mind that the theory behind the promotion of the book "Angels and Women" was that it was dictated in 1878 by one of the fallen angels who had repented and desired to do God's will. Since about this time, the anointed might even have currently (since 1878 at least) held some kind of power over them and might be involved in judging them.
-------------------------rest of this post is a long quotation from the 1911 Watchtower--------------------------
THEIR JUDGMENT PROBABLY NOW
We have answered in previous issues of THE WATCH TOWER that this trial will be, we believe, at the very beginning of this Great Day. And why at the beginning? For the reason that there is only one way, so far as we can see, in which these fallen angels can have a trial, their trial consisting in having a fuller opportunity to sin, if they so desire, or an opportunity to show, if they wish, that they are sick of sin and desire to return to harmony with God. . . .
THEY ARE CONFINED TO EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE
The Apostles Peter and Jude tell us that after their wrong course these angels were separated from association with the heavenly and holy angels, who were in harmony with God, and were cast down to tartarus, to our earth's atmosphere, "to be reserved in chains of darkness until the Judgment of the Great Day." What does that expression mean? The "chains of darkness" we believe to be a figurative statement signifying that they were no longer permitted to materialize in the light and, generally, not able to materialize at all. But of late spiritists claim, and we believe truthfully, that these spirits can now materialize in as real and tangible flesh as any human being possesses. As they state, and as the facts prove, this can be done only under certain circumstances; they still have a great deal of difficulty in materializing in the light. The "chains of darkness" still seem to be on them to some extent.
Spiritists further claim, however, that the spirits are breaking these bonds and that gradually they will be able to do fully in the light everything that they can now do in the dark, and even more than this. The Bible corroborates what the spiritists claim, only that the spiritists teach that these things are done by the dead; who, the spirits tell, are more alive after death than before. Spiritists assert that it is the spirits of dead human beings that materialize. But the Bible takes the opposite position and says that these spirits are the fallen angels, and that so far as humanity are concerned, the dead are totally dead and must remain so until the resurrection.
So, then, the Bible and the Spiritists are in decided conflict; and yet there is this harmony that we speak of, namely, that at the time of the Judgment of the Great Day we may expect the bonds restraining these spirits to be loosened. Of course God could hold them in restraint; but He will now permit these fallen angels to have a great lease of liberty. Then will come to them a great trial and testing, or judgment, in respect to their willingness or unwillingness to do according to the Divine will.
SOME OF THEM PROBABLY REPENTANT
It would not surprise us if some of the fallen angels who sinned in the past have repented and have had long centuries of experience with the unrepentant ones; and that these have suffered persecutions from those of evil mind. And so there may thus be two classes among the fallen angels; the one class desirous of doing the will of God and the other class, like Satan himself, wilfully opposed to the will of God. The trial time will prove each of these angels and manifest to which class each belongs.
We think, too, that we see in the Scriptures a passage which we had not seen with the same force before --a Scripture that seems to give a thought along this very line. It seems to imply that at a very near date probably these fallen angels will have wonderful power, such as they have never had since the days of the flood, and that this wonderful power will be used in a very malevolent manner, to stir up mankind to evil doing; and that this will be the key, the secret connected with the awful time of trouble which the Bible tells us will mark the conclusion of this Age and which will constitute the forerunner or beginning of the New Dispensation.
. . .
The Bible says that Satan is the Prince of the Power of the Air, that he is the Prince of Demons. (Eph. 2:2; Matt. 9:34.) Therefore we understand that in this symbolical sense "the powers of the air" are the demons; that these powers of the air that are being held until the saints of God shall have been sealed in their foreheads, are these fallen angels. As soon as the power that is now controlling them shall be removed, we shall have a reign of evil all over the earth. The evil spirits will do all the evil that is in their power, and this will constitute the trial of all the fallen angels--the lifting of the restraints to see whether they will go contrary to the Divine will. All who thus manifest their alliance with evil in any way will become subjects of the Second Death; while others who show their loyalty to God will mark themselves as worthy, presumably, of everlasting life.
It may be something in connection with the saints that will constitute the test of these angels. However, we need not wait many years until we shall know.
 
 

I think these first two points got covered. It's interesting that we don't have much information on just what it was that appealed to Russell. Russell apparently came pretty close to believing in "universal salvation" and this would include a number of fallen angels according to his thinking. He seemed sure that Adam, although perfect, would be resurrected to an opportunity to eternal life, although I don't recall if he was ever so sure of Eve's chances. I don't recall this being speculated about much lately, although most JWs will now say that Adam has little chance because he was perfect and was not deceived and therefore rebelled.
There are some Bible Students who claim that this book was sent to Russell in 1878. But right from the start, evidently, Russell saw it as a book that might enlighten his followers about spiritism. If this is true, he could have accepted it as an "automatic writing" book, where the author acted as a spirit medium. At least that's what later Bible Students implied. Some Bible Students evidently say that Russell knew the author, although this could have happened after he read the book and he might have made contact at that point. (The author was the wife of the Governor of Vermont.)
These first two points of the review, however, give no clue about those claims. Only that the book was in striking harmony with the Scriptural account in Genesis. So on to the third point.
The book throws light on the subject of the devil and demons and the influence they exercised both before the flood and and now again in the time period of the books publication: 1878-1924 or thereabouts. Just how it throws light on their influence is not clearly spelled out. The book will also aid those who carefully consider it to avoid the bad effects of spiritism.
If indeed the book came through a spirit medium, it's not clear exactly why Bible Students should buy this book to help them avoid the effects of spiritism. Does the book give us insight into the clever ways that the demons can influence us? Does it tell us something new?
So on to the fourth point:
For anyone who cares, the evidence points to a well-known Bible Student and long time personal friend of Russell named Ed W. Brenneisen, who lived in Dallas based on his letter to the Watchtower in 1900:
MY DEAR BROTHER:--We cannot ever hope to have you and the other dear brethren (who assisted so graciously and unselfishly in making the gathering at this place on Sept. 29, 30, and Oct. 1 such a profitable one for our spiritual growth and upbuilding) fully understand this side the second vail what a deep spirit of gratitude and love fills our hearts for you. In every possible respect has the convention passed beyond our greatest hopes, and to whom but our very present Lord can we ascribe such unmistakeable direction in even the minutest detail? To him and the glorious Father be all the praise and glory, yet we forget not to thank him for the humble, loving instrument he has used of late years, so effectually to dispense and serve present truth to the balance of the household of faith. May the Lord continue to keep and richly bless you as that faithful servant. With much love,   E. W. BRENNEISEN,--Dallas, Texas. In 1909, he was travelling as a convention speaker with Russell, MacMillan and others. The following is from the Nova Scotia convention. Other later (1915) convention reports show him also speaking with Van Ambergh, R.J.Martin, Menta Sturgeon and Rutherford.  Russell was the sole editor of the Watch Tower while he was alive, but listed 5 persons in his Will who would be on an Editorial Committee. These five persons were:
WILLIAM E. PAGE, WILLIAM E. VAN AMBURGH, HENRY CLAY ROCKWELL, E. W. BRENNEISEN, F. H. ROBISON [and if any of them were unable to fulfill they should choose the replacement from a secondary list of five alternate choices] A. E. Burgess, Robert Hirsh, Isaac Hoskins, Geo. H. Fisher (Scranton), J. F. Rutherford, Dr. John Edgar [whose names were never to be attached to any Watch Tower publications after Russell died]. I mention that last point from Russell's will because Brenneisen, being a close friend, might have been alert to the fact that Russell didn't want any of these brothers to attach their name to anything they wrote, which might explain some of the "secrecy" behind the A&W book. Of course, this became moot, because within a couple of days of Russell's death, Van Ambergh immediately sent a letter that started the process of getting members of the Editorial Committee to resign.  Page and Brenneisen both responded with letters announcing their resignation in time for the December 1916 issue, just one month after Russell died. Van Ambergh put the condition that they must live at Bethel to be on the committee, which was evident Page's letter, too. Rutherford and Hirsh immediately replaced them on the Editorial Committee.
I can't really tell what relationship he had with Rutherford, but I have only seen hints that it didn't start out well.
On to point #5:
I have documentation from the Society itself that printing the Finished Mystery was at a cost on the order of 20 cents, even though it was done by outside printers. This book, shorter and lighter, should have been about half that amount, or about 10 cents. I don't know how many were printed, but it must have been expected that this would be purchased by some in groups of 10 or more, meaning that there was an expectation that it would be redistributed in the same way that colporteurs and other book salesman were selling books in those days. Readers of the Golden Age were expected to see a great value in this book to order it in quantities of 10 or more. The profit per box would have been about $8.50 after shipping, but the profit per 10 sold separately would have been a lot more like $16.00 but would have been nearly 10 times the amount of work, and would probably require more marketing in the Golden Age.
It seems like a dirty trick to tell readers of this Watch Tower publication that this A&W book provided a good way to guard yourself from spiritism without admitting the part about it being produced (they believed) through a method that the Watch Tower had defined as spiritism.
I also find it odd that they would see the need to run an advertisement that ends with the words, this is not an advertisement.

I can't tell what this is about. Can you explain?

This stuff is all very new to me. Until tonight I have never read about any spiritists, and the only one I'm learning anything about is Johannes Greber at the moment. If possible, I also plan to learn a bit about what Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science) may have claimed that made Woodworth draw a comparison between himself and her. Russell and Woodworth seemed to imply that there were some similarities among the claims of "spiritists" so I suppose that any of these groups is a place to start. In the meantime, please tell whatever you think is relevant about this Atlantean Society. 
The following "foundation" material should be long enough that no one who doesn't really want to read it will want to read it.   Also, I normally would try to spend enough time to absorb a few hundred pages of material about the subject before I share anything, but I am getting a lot of the following from some sites I downloaded years ago, and I have not really checked out the material for myself yet. Page numbers for the references may even be off, because I do not own Greber's book and have no access to it. I only have direct access to the Watchtower's side of this story.
Johannes Greber wrote a book called "Communication with the Spirit World" in 1932, in which he claimed that it was a Christian's duty to communicate with the good spirits and be able to distinguish the bad ones.
If, therefore, we, as faithful servants of God, or at any rate, as honest seekers after the truth, try to get into touch with the world of good spirits we are committing no sin, but rather, obeying one of God's commandments; an important commandment, for only through contact with the world of good spirits can we arrive at the truth. There is no other way. . . .  From these fetters of error mankind can be freed only, if God will send his spirits as heralds of the truth. (Page 6, 7) At the same time, even throughout this same year, Rutherford claimed that because the "Holy Spirit" had ceased in 1918 that God was sending his angels as ministers and heralds of the truth for those in the Temple class.
Curiously, we just saw where Russell had spoken about the beliefs of spiritists as to whether the spirit was able to materialize only in the dark or also in the light. Russell said, this in 1911 which Woodworth re-quoted in the Finished Mystery in 1917 along with the idea about repentant fallen angels from Noah's day:
The "chains of darkness" we believe to be a figurative statement signifying that they were no longer permitted to materialize in the light and, generally, not able to materialize at all. (September 1911 Watch Tower) Greber had a lot to say on this very point, also discussing about 6 levels of spiritistic activity (often through mediums) that could include speech, speech through an inspirational medium, automatic writing, seance table tapping and materializing in the dark. Some, they say, could use material or materialized objects.
"It is therefore childish and a sign of your profound ignorance in such matters, to ridicule the fact that many spiritistic phenomena can be produced successfully only in the dark. Some of your scientists even assert that darkness is insisted upon only because it facilitates the concealment of 'spiritistic humbug'." (Page 91) On page 79, 80 of the book Greber discusses the phenomenon that lies behind the E.R.A. machines that the Society once promoted:
[This section of quotes has been moved to a later post; see below.] Greber also claimed that the way to keep from talking to a bad spirit was to have them take the vow. An oath, he called it, in the name of God that they were not lying.
"You know that I am telling you the truth in this, as I have done in all else. You have had plenty of proof of the fact that I am a truthful spirit. For this you have my oath, taken in the name of the Almighty, the true God." (p. 263) Speaking of oaths related to spiritism, "The Vow" that Russell pushed as a kind of loyalty oath was something that the Bethel family repeated every day as part of their morning worship, similar to a daily pledge of allegiance. This was the very item (The Vow) over which Woodworth says he came under the control of the demons, and about which the demons offered him true Biblical and spiritual knowledge. (Because, sometimes the demons tell the truth, he said.) It's what kept Woodworth from accepting that Russell was the Faithful and Discreet Slave, until Russell proved that he really was by pointing out a flaw in Woodworth's reasoning. Here is a portion from the 1975 Yearbook:
*** yb75 pp. 51-52 Part 1—United States of America ***
At Bethel was located C. T. Russell’s study. Downstairs was the dining room, with a long table that would accommodate forty-four persons. The family would assemble here to sing a hymn, read the “Vow” and join in prayer before breakfast. . . .Would you like to hear the vow that was daily impressed on their minds? Entitled “My Solemn Vow to God,” it goes like this: “Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. May thy rule come into my heart more and more, and thy will be done in my mortal body. Relying on the assistance of thy promised grace to help in every time of need, through Jesus Christ our Lord, I register this Vow.. . . “I Vow to thee that I will be on the alert to resist everything akin to Spiritism and Occultism, and that, remembering that there are but the two masters, I shall resist these snares in all reasonable ways, as being of the Adversary. . . .Recitation of this vow was later discontinued among God’s people at Bethel and elsewhere. Another curious parallel between the Watchtower publications and Greber was that the medium Greber communicated with believed that the fallen angels could repent and be saved. On page 297 of Greber's book, he says that even Lucifer would ultimately be saved. The point is also repeated that Lucifer and Christ Jesus were brothers, Christ being made first, then Lucifer second. (Page 267-268). Rutherford also repeated this same point in his own books that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.

AllenSmith:
Your tirades are too much to answer.  Too convoluted.
I would be happy to answer your questions if they are fair or sensical questions, but " Then, why did you attempt to sarcastically apologize back then... "  has two problems, to wit:
1.) What are you talking about? and
2.) a sarcastic apology is self explanatory.
If you are not a "drinking man", my considered suggestion is that you take it up.
If you are already a "drinking man", I suggest you quit.
When people insult me, I ALWAYS think it is funny ... and the more pointed and vitriolic the insult, the funnier it is!
 Years ago I was at a "Renaissance Faire" with my then 12 year old son, Tommy, who was wrapped too tight, and I paid a roving costumed Insulter $5 dollars to insult me while I was with my boy. 
The Insulter had just finished BLISTERING someone else about 30 feet away, continuously, for about four minutes, up one side and down the other, but my son was not paying attention.
I called the Insulter over, gave him $5 dollars,  and he reamed me out about my looks, weight, bathing habits, table manners, cowardice, my parents cowardice, THEIR bathing habits, and ugliness, ancestry, genetic deficiencies, body odor, sexual preferences and the lack of skill thereof, clothing, and topics I did not even know existed, for about two minutes.  All original insults, I had never heard before.
I was stunned about how GOOD the insults were ... but they were not as good as the ones I had just finished listening to when the other man had been insulted. 
He took a bow and I was laughing hard,  and I applauded him !
My son was standing beside me,  totally horrified and aghast.
He was also afraid I might shoot this guy and he would lose his Dad to the police.
Tommy was almost crying, and was shaking and upset.
I took him over to something,  we sat on it, and I explained to him that he was just "wrapped too tight", and needed to "lighten up" ... that this is how men talk to each other in the REAL world and that he needed to stop being such a sissy.
When I was working on the Peru Bethel Branch construction about 35 years ago, the American construction workers would insult each other as they worked .... and Brother Burt, the Branch Overseer,  called us all in and told us that we had to stop calling each other STUPID ( ... insert extra expletives here as needed ...) because the Peruvian Brothers were upset, and thought a fight was about to start.
From their viewpoint, a fight to the death was called for.
May I be so presumptuous to give you, AllenSmith, the same advice I gave my eldest son?
Don't let the sound of your own wheels ... make you crazy.
Tommy eventually developed a sense of humor, and is doing quite well, serving Jehovah whole souled, and is a strong and competent man, he and his wife are serving in an American Sign Language Congregation.
If you are DETERMINED to go nutso crazy ....
.... don't let someone else drive the clown car.
I guess I should have given the professional Insulter $15 dollars, instead of $5 dollars.
.... sigh.
.

Yes it can have an impact. But we mustn't forget that demons too move with the times and adapt their methods. I doubt they would try to convince an atheist of their existence for example. In the "enlightened" western world, especially within more rational cultures the experience with demons like in Jesus' day is limited. Unless you're an Italian Catholic it appears. It's something that people like to get entertained by more than anything.

I remember researching this connection once. It's also possible that the connection between spiritism (pharmakeia) and pharmacology is there, but might not be as close as we have imagined. Those who sold and studied herbs and medicines and poisons (drugs) were put into the same category as those who were known to use herbs and medicines and poisons to induce magic, spells, trances, or even induce prophecy and oracles.
As sure as dervishes will whirl, being a prophet was associated with strange behavior:
(Numbers 11:25) . . .And as soon as the spirit settled down on them, they began to behave as prophets, but they did not do it again. (1 Samuel 19:20) . . ., the spirit of God came to be upon Saul’s messengers, and they began behaving as prophets as well. (1 Samuel 19:22-24) . . .” 23 While Saul was on his way from there to Naiʹoth in Raʹmah, the spirit of God came upon him as well, and he walked along behaving as a prophet until he came into Naiʹoth in Raʹmah. 24 He also stripped off his garments, and he too behaved as a prophet before Samuel, and he lay there naked all that day and all that night. That is why they say: “Is Saul also among the prophets?” But oddly the "spirit medium" at Endor whom Saul visited was called a "bottle" in Hebrew. It's the same word here too: 
(Isaiah 8:19) 19 And if they say to you: “Inquire of the spirit mediums or of the fortune-tellers who chirp and mutter,” (Isaiah 29:4) 4 And you must become low so that you will speak from the very earth, and as from the dust your saying will sound low. And like a spirit medium your voice must become even from the earth, and from the dust your own saying will chirp. When the Greeks behind the LXX saw this word for "spirit medium" they translated it "engastrimyth" or "ventriloquist" -- so there's your "spirit" = "wind" = "vent." But not really, of course. The Latin translators used the word "python" in these places. 
1 Sam 28:7 (LXX) . . .καὶ ζητήσω ἐν αὐτῇ καὶ εἶπαν οἱ παῖδες αὐτοῦ πρὸς αὐτόν ἰδοὺ γυνὴ ἐγγαστρίμυθος ἐν Αενδωρ 1 Sam 28:7 (Latin V.) . . .et sciscitabor per illam et dixerunt servi eius ad eum est mulier habens pythonem in Aendor It's all tied back together for us here in the Acts 16:16 footnote in the NWT:
*** Rbi8 Acts 16:16 ***
Lit., “with a spirit of python.” Gr., eʹkhou·san pneuʹma pyʹtho·na. "Spirit of a python" is the literal wording that the NWT translates as "demon of divination."
(Acts 16:16) 16 And it happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a certain servant girl with a spirit, a demon of divination, met us. She used to furnish her masters with much gain by practicing the art of prediction. Insight adds the following:
*** it-1 p. 638 Divination ***
“Spirit of Python.” In Philippi, Macedonia, Paul met a servant girl who was possessed by “a spirit, a demon of divination,” literally, “a spirit of python” (Gr., pneuʹma pyʹtho·na; Ac 16:16). “Python” was the name of the mythical snake that guarded the temple and oracle of Delphi, Greece. The word pyʹthon came to refer to a person who could foretell the future and also to the spirit that spoke through that one. Although later used to denote a ventriloquist, here in Acts it is used to describe a demon who enabled a young girl to practice the art of prediction. The reason for the Hebrew word "bottle" is not because of genies in a bottle or bottles sold at pharmacies, but probably simply because of the low, echoing sound you hear from tapping on a bottle made from skin, or the way it changes the sound of your voice when speaking "through" the bottle. So words sometimes got attached to ideas, and remained there, not strictly because of a direct connection that was still continuing but sometimes from a connection that was nearly lost over time. (Although the connection between SOME forms of pharmacy and SOME forms of witchcraft remain even today.)
Other examples of words that might have had spiritistic or astrological origin, but have lost that meaning over time were mentioned recently under another topic. They might include the words:
capricious disaster, influenza, jovial, lunatic, martial, mazel tov, mercurial, saturnine, venerial, etc.

Amazing! First I ever heard of this. I just skimmed a 1,551 page pdf file, where someone went to the trouble to digitize this thing into searchable text and links. What an amazing waste of time!
Just saw this on a Google search for one of the links:
Oahspe is a book written in 1880 by an American dentist named John Ballou Newbrough [1828-1891]. He claimed that it was the result of automatic writing, Interesting that Seola was not claimed by its own author to have been anything like "automatic writing," and yet even as early as Russell himself it may have been seen as a kind of "inspired" or "automatic writing." I don't see the original author claiming that she even used a strangely mixed musical performance as a way to get at the information, as is implied in an early review of the book. Only that, like a lot of secular authors, she claims that listening to beautiful music helped her muse as an author. "Angels and Women" was edited so heavily after Seola that I have wondered if the claim that it was "dictated" by a "fallen angel" wasn't just a ruse to make some money through one of the Society's publications (The Golden Age). Both Woodworth and Russell had (at other times) used their publications for the purpose of raising money. (Solon Society, for example.)
 

Your experience reminds me of a thought I had when I read this bit of "news" back in 1992
*** g92 8/22 p. 29 Watching the World ***
Demonism in Rome  Gabriele Amorth claims that he has dealt with 12,000 cases of demon possession in the city of Rome alone since his appointment as a Catholic exorcist in 1986. “Why so many?” asked a journalist of the Italian newspaper Il Tempo. “All traditionally Catholic countries,” the priest asserted, “are immersed in a sea of infestation. Demon attacks can no longer be stemmed.” Amorth had harsh words for Rome: “The city of the pope is the most demon-possessed in the world. Over a hundred satanic cults operate there . . . Everybody should know that many children disappear in Rome and are used in satanic rites.” Of course, this man was just as likely to find that the reason for the demon possession, in his mind, was that he found an old Truth book under the bed.
When we were dating, my wife had a study with a couple that I took over when we got married. (Both now baptized for 30 years.) Many nights, both the husband and the wife would hear things being thrown and dishes breaking, etc. My wife had already gone through all the ideas about getting rid of all crosses and religious imagery (which they gladly did). I had been a complete skeptic, not about the fact of demon possession, but about the object and manner of demon possession. This skepticism started especially after hearing the comment of a District Overseer vetting assembly experiences around 1974/5. At any rate, I had never expected to hear about both a husband and wife simultaneously experiencing the same thing.
We told them to try praying aloud and calling out the name "Jehovah" which was always the best solution offered during the assembly experiences. They claimed that they had even called out "Jehovah! Jehovah!" and it didn't work. (Although I have personally heard persons claim that it worked for them and others.) What finally worked was to just tell them to call us any time of the day or night when the experience happened.
I might have mentioned it when this came up during a recent discussion of the pronunciation of YHWH, but it appears that some of the magical amulets and magical papyri in Egypt show that the spiritistic magicians around the time of Jesus' human life were using the pronunciation "Je-ho-vah" (in addition to Ye-ho-wa, Yahuweh, Joweh, Jove, etc) as a way to invoke the spirit of magic. It occurred to me then, although I didn't mention it, that these magicians were, in effect, invoking demons by calling out "Jehovah!! Jehovah!"
In our congregation in Missouri in 1964 to 1974 I remember many talks that seemed to be aimed at the sisters who shopped at Goodwill and Salvation Army. Salvation Army was ruled against for its religious ties anyway, but for those who hadn't made a religious connection to Goodwill Industries, there were always warnings about how items that might seem innocuous could still be demon-possessed. What JTR pointed out here once, which surprised me for how obvious it seems now, was that no one ever warned the brothers that a used car (or car parts from a junk-yard, or a used lawn-mower, etc) might just as well be demon-possessed. It was always the things that women were known to shop for.
 

I thought I’d also mention that funnily enough this kind of “mass hysteria” regarding spiritism prevailed into the 1990’s among the Witnesses, and was marked by supposed demon possession of items brought in bazaars, including mattresses which would throw the person on to the floor. Friends were known to do almost public burnings reminiscent of those who practiced magic in Paul’s day, of any items thought to be demon possessed. I too was guilty of this "hysteria" which confirms what @Gone Fishinghad probably in mind when he said had we lived in Russell's day, we too would have made the kind of "errors" in judgement that they did. One morning I was lying in bed, when I could have sworn my mattress shook. I thought to myself, this is it, it's possessed. In my mind I was already going through the steps of how I would tell my mother, and then the practical procedure of where and how we would burn it. No doubt we would have to pour  gallons of petrol on it because these demons are very resistant and stubborn, as I learned in one account in one of our magazines. I was worried about how to broach the subject though. The thought did occur to me that maybe I had done something wrong, and this is why I had been chosen by these supernatural beings as their next victim. I didn't have to worry too long because as soon as my mother got out of the shower, she had a phone call from one of her friends asking her if she had felt the tremor too. There had been a small earthquake. Whew!

Possibly. There doesn't seem to be any information whether she did or didn't consult the account in Genesis, although perhaps that was a a given. But yes, she definitely seems to have consulted non canonical Hebrew writings and even the sanskrit literature of India. She would have got similar information about a flood since as we know, the flood "legend" appears in most ancient writings. What is definite is her novel is a hundred times more accurate Biblically than that awful movie Noah, which I only watched because of Russel Crowe and because everyone said how terrible it was.

As we know, spiritism has been around since the fall of Adam and Eve in various forms, but “modern spiritism” (or spiritualism), apparently  “developed and reached its peak growth in membership from the 1840s to the 1920s, especially in English-speaking countries. By 1897, spiritualism was said to have more than eight million followers in the United States and Europe, mostly drawn from the middle and upper classes"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism  
My opinion is that Spiritism can be associated with a type of “mass hysteria” which is defined by Wikipedia as: "a phenomenon that transmits collective illusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear"..
I don’t want anyone to think I am dismissing that spirits are real and that they have had influence in the past and present.  I am merely suggesting that a lot of beliefs and stories surrounding the concept of a spirit world in modern times can be attributed to “mass hysteria” and it could explain Russell and others being influenced by it (the hysteria, not the spiritism). I agree with JWI comment in one of the threads: “I do think people who tend to decide that everything is either Satan or Jehovah are more likely to fool themselves into thinking in black and white. When they don't understand something and think it's positive then that must be Jehovah. When they don't understand something and they think that it's negative, then it must be Satan” A classic example, as also brought out by JWI is the dramatic musings of Br Woodworth regarding what he thought were influences from Satan: “Visions may be tried, wonderful illuminations of the mind as by a soft but glorious greenish or yellowish haze. Seductive suggestions may be made, based on circumstances of the environment. Offers of inspiration may be made. (Finished Mystery) When I read that it reminded me of what the author of Seola said regarding her inspiration for the novel: “...listening to the performance of an extraordinary musical composition. It was sudden and unforeseen as the landscape which sometimes appears to a benighted traveller, for one instant only, illumined by the lightning's flash”
It seems like people in those days were full of notions of “Gothic Romanticism” and flowery speech. Coupled with the “mass hysteria” I mentioned, you have the ingredients for all kinds of perceived ideas and theories. Interestingly, during that period of time people were also fascinated with anything Egyptian, initiated by the public unwrappings of mummies in the 1920’s in Europe, (brought over by French archeologists during Napoleon's invasion of Egypt) and later the travelling mummy  exhibits in the United States (where Joseph Smith purchased the Egyptian papyri claiming they were  written by Abraham, sorry @TrueTomHarley)
I made up a (very incomplete) list of just some of happenings during that particularly “spiritistic” era.
1823 Joseph Smith is visited by Angel Moroni
1827 Jane Webb publishes her Gothic fiction “The Mummy!”
1835 Joseph Smith publishes the “Book of Abraham”
1845 Edgar Allan Poe publishes his poem “the Raven”
1848 The Fox sisters begin their “mysterious” rappings
1875 Ms. Mary Baker Eddy publishes her book “Science and Health”
1878 Ms. Smith publishes her novel Seola
1890 Elijah Bond gives commercial birth to the Ouija board (what is commercial birth?....I think I just made that one up)
1923 Greber attends his first séance
1937 Greber translates Bible manuscripts
etc. etc.
Of course in that list would also be Russell’s writings, including Woodworth’s “Finished Mystery”
But I am no more suggesting that Russell or Woodworth were under the influence of the spirit world than I am suggesting that any of the other the people in my list were.  Joseph Smith was an egotistical con man, Edgar Allan Poe, although brilliant, an alcoholic and drug addict, the Fox sisters con artists, Elijah Bond an opportunistic businessman....etc. etc.  I believe they all had their reasons for why and what they wrote or did, but communicating with the spirit world was not one of them. ...
Nor would I ever suggest Russell and co were con men, but rather, naively led along with the fascinations of that time, and maybe sometimes influenced by a lack of sleep.
 

Are you thinking, therefore, that it's possible that Rutherford or Woodworth lied to get more recognition for the "Angels & Women" book? 

The topic bellow is not accepting any further comments so I have no choice but to start another topic, although this thread will probably be really short...
I  wanted to comment on this remark made by @Alessandro Corona : "Russell was also involved in the distribution of a book written by a demon through automatic/angel writing called seola, later renamed to of angels and women. Samuel Herd has even come out and said it was a fantastic novel. So you can see the type of judgment the leadership of bethel really has".
That the book was written through automatic angel writing is mere speculation and not based on any know facts.  The publishers Leopold Classic Library commented on its re- print: ....."our view is that this is a significant literary work, which deserves to be brought back into print after many decades...... We hope that you will enjoy this wonderful classic book”  I have the book, and agree with both Leopold publishing and Br. Herd (if he really said anything like what was quoted). It is a romantic novel of the caliber of well known classics and if you can get a hold of it (Amazon has it) then I recommend it for your library.
I think the rumour originally got started because it was said that  Ms. Ann Eliza Smith, the author, had never read the Bible and despite that, her observations regarding that time (antediluvian) were remarkably accurate so much so that is was deemed she must have had this information communicated to her via an angel. I find it unlikely that she didn’t know anything about the Bible since most people at that time did, and one of her other novels (From dawn to sunrise) apparently deals with “the historical and philosophical religious ideas of mankind”. She herself says that : “the theory upon which the story is founded is in strict accordance with the sacred writings of the Hebrews and traditions of other ancient nations”.
Anyway, for those who want to know more about the novel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seola
Note what the footnote says about the music that she said had inspired her: “A book review publisher called, "Good Company-Sunday Afternoon: A magazine for the household" released an article on the novel Seola in 1878. The magazine believed the compositions that motivated Smith to write the novel was the prelude to the “Creation”, one of Strauss’s waltzes, a scrap of a symphony of Saint Saens, and Wagner’s Centennial March, all played simultaneously in a small room”. 
Also note the reason Br. Russell recommended the book was because: "we believe it will be of interest to Bible Students, who are familiar with the machinations of the devil and the demons and the influence exercised by them prior to the flood and also now in this evil day. The book throws light on the subject and is believed, will aid those who carefully consider it to avoid the baneful effects of spiritism, now so prevalent in the world".
Of course this kind of reasoning was very popular at the time because as was said "spiritism was now so prevalent in the world"*. However now, we would just consider the novel an interesting read as any other, well written story, (that was made up but based on facts), would be.
*It seems the popularity of spiritism (called spiritualism by wikipedia) got it's modern start in Europe and the USA in the late 1800's with the "help" of the Fox sisters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_sisters
 
 
 
 

I am not trying to convey a "message". I hope I am merely presenting facts.

@AllenSmith
I'm afraid we might be misunderstanding one another.  I for my part find it difficult to see what you are trying to say sometimes because I know English is not your first language.  And you might find it difficult understanding what I am saying for the same reason. It’s not your fault. And I am partly to blame for this confusion as  I have clearly veered off topic. None of this has anything to do with demonism and the WT.  I joined the thread when it was already very well along and to be honest I never even read the initial post for this topic......I will go back and take a look at it.  In any case, I don’t think the WT, as in the organization now, nor during Russel or Rutherford's day, has ever had anything to do with demonism, at least not intentionally. As for past mistakes, I don't have any problem with those.
I know, I have been there, his grave is a couple of steps to one side, and apparently the "Bible Students" keep stealing his photograph that's there on his grave stone.
I still don't know what you mean by "the Watchtower".

Whatever.....I think you just want to argue....I wasn't even worried about who sanctioned what, and who bought what, the fact is Russell's theory about the great pyramid didn't die with him but much later, and the belief about the ancient worthies coming to earth before Armageddon didn't die with Rutherford, but quite a number of years later.
Just some funny trivia; when Br. Rutherford was interviewed by the Time magazine when it became known he deeded the house to the ancient worthies, he said "I have purposely landscaped the place with palm and olive trees so these princes of the universe will feel at home when they come to offer man a chance to become perfect.” Here is the whole article:

and here is the deed:
 

I don't know what exactly you mean by "the Watchtower". Surely it was sanctioned by whoever was in charge of the society at the time.
Again, not sure what you mean by "the Watchtower". And no, that is not the only reason, Proclaimers book:
Box/Picture on page 76]
“House of the Princes”
 Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in “The Golden Age” of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J. F. Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society.
  Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book “Salvation,” published in 1939, explains: “The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth.”
  A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? “The Watchtower” of December 15, 1947, explained: “It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise.”
[Footnote]
At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as “princes in all the earth,” in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon.—See “The Watchtower,” November 1, 1950, pages 414-17.
 

Yes. Good point. The paragraph that GF called rubbish was both true and false. Just like the opening post in this topic way back on page 1. I wasn't sure how much of it GF knew to be true, but the primary point was about what we do when something is partly true and partly false. Our instinct is often to dismiss it all, but labelling it ALL as rubbish might not be the right way to handle it.
Looks like GF just responded. I'll go read it and see if I misunderstood.

Good point again. It's easy to create an over-the-top persona and whip up a pile-on of up-votes to go with it. There appears to be a lot less of this in real life. But it's still something to be careful about. One of the elders in our congregation has created a kind of "formula" at the end of all his prayers over the last few years, where he thanks Jehovah for the Governing Body, then "redundantly" offers thanks for the  wonderful food provided by the Slave, through Jesus Christ. Amen.  He prayed at a backyard bar-b-que this summer and accidentally thanked Jehovah for "this food provided by the Slave."  I thought he meant one of our wives.

Hahaha, that is hilarious! There must be an  elder like that in every hall, we have one! (And don’t tell me you don’t @Gone Fishing)  The curious thing is, off the platform this brother can be quite crass and has made some rather dirty and inapropriate (as in sexually) remarks about some women to my husband. Maybe when he’s up there he feels the need to make atonement and that’s his way of doing it. A few weeks ago we had a speaker from another hall and in his talk he asked if we thank Jehovah regularly for the Bible and the publications he has authored. To be fair to him, maybe he was nervous and didn’t mean to say it quite this way. In any case, my husband and I looked at each other and he whispered in my ear “I thought Jehovah only authored the Bible”. Sometimes I think some of us say things, as you say, as if it was a “formula”. How many times do you hear friends saying, when there is a disaster, Jehovah protected them etc. when you know that if that was the case, then Jehovah is partial, because he helped brother Albert, but sister Mildred unfortunately got struck by flying debris and died.

Not sure what you mean. What you showed is completely unrelated to Pleiades. Pleiades lore has never been "respectable academic anthropology."