Gnosis Pithos

Jehovah God gave ample evidence to first-century Christians to verify the apostle Paul's divine backing:
In Acts 14:10 he heals a man so that he can walk. In Acts 19:11-12 his handkerchief causes diseases and demons to be expelled. In Acts 20:10-12 he resurrects a boy. I admit that I can't dogmatically say that Jesus Christ has no representatives on earth. I just was trying to point out that in the Bible Jesus Christ doesn't need a centralized body to achieve his will, so it throws a wrench into the GB's theory Jesus operates in a pyramid, trickle-down structure. I do believe that Jehovah God has and is still using anointed ones to direct the preaching work and to direct his people. I believe that the anointed will become increasingly important in coming years as guides for his people. I do believe that the worldwide reach of the preaching work by the JW organization indicates that God's temple of anointed is associated with this organization (a religion established by anointed ones and still supported by anointed ones). I see the temple of God as the anointed ones--a people rather than a faceless organization that exists legally (2 Corinthians 6:14-18). God's temple is IMO not contingent on a legally created organization, but is a brotherhood that will exist regardless of what happens to the JW org.
I think the GB has made it pretty clear that we can only make it into the new system by closely obeying their singular direction. There's a very narrow pathway to get to the other side of this system of things, and it's tied to unquestioned obedience of the GB. The organization is very high control with no room for dissent. The GB has set it up that no one can question their direction under threat of expulsion. That alarms me, because when you have unchecked authority things usually don't go well. And I think it's also concerning that JWs don't seem to "...test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1). And I am one of those "loonies" that believe the Man of Lawlessness will play some role in the future.

You will probably admit that it would be very difficult to accomplish what we have accomplished globally without having a centralized body. I personally see nothing wrong, or even unscriptural about it. Even with regard to keeping a uniform doctrine. 
Here are two articles from the same WT that go into detail of why this idea is reasonable:
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-feeds-many/
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/
 
 

by going beyond the application intended,  (Isaiah 25:20 and 30:21, 1John 5:3,  Zephaniah 2:3 as cited in the two paragraphs) claiming that "our survival of coming events will depend on our obedience to Jehovah’s instructions" and  "Therefore, we want to develop heartfelt obedience to the guidance we are receiving. (1 John 5:3) If we do so today, we will be more inclined to obey willingly in the future and thus receive the protection of our Father, Jehovah, and our King, Jesus" for the purpose of the Slave reaffirming God given authority over the flock at the present time?
To me, it sounds awfully like some kind of soft threat you make to a child. What I hear when I read those two paragraphs in the “God’s Kingdom book”  is: “you better obey the Slave NOW or you’re gonna die!” And I am thinking, do we really need that? Are we presumed so shallow as to obey merely to save our hides? Or shouldn’t we be granted the dignity that our obedience surely has deeper motives than that?
 
There, I’ve said it in a nutshell.

Acts 3:22,23 is referring to Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is often called the "Greater Moses". We know that Jesus Christ is our undeniable leader and we should "Listen to him" as it says in Matthew 17:5. Now, how should we expect to receive direction from Jesus Christ today and in the coming years? Is it direct from Christ or from a body of men acting as representatives for him? This isn't meant as an attack on the GB, but I just wanted some clarification on this matter. Because in the first century, Jesus Christ was able to direct Saul/Paul directly to preach on his behalf. He didn't go through a centralized body to see that work done.

For the sake of this discussion I see the need to separate for a moment organizational procedures and spiritual matters, (although many times they are intertwined obviously). We understand organizational procedures to involve things like congregational protocol, certain policies on handling various matters etc. etc.
Spiritual things or doctrinal matters on the other hand are those that we learn when we study the Bible, meditate on, and put into practice what we learn in our lives. This must be what Jesus had in mind when he makes all those references to salvation.
Organizational matters are important for obvious reasons, and cooperation with those taking the lead in these matters is obviously important too.
However, when it comes to actual salvation on that day, are we perhaps going beyond what is written if we attach importance to a location, i.e. where we find ourselves physically, when it seems clear from the scriptures that it is our spiritual state that will decide the outcome for an individual at Armageddon?
  

Further to the topic above, this WT talks about Jehovah's Valley of protection.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130215/jehovahs-valley-of-protection/
"How vital it will be during the great tribulation to maintain our faith in Jehovah’s saving power and to remain in Jehovah’s valley of protection"!
" Under Jehovah’s protection, we will survive the end of this wicked system of things and enter into God’s righteous new world. Though we are objects of hatred by all the nations, let us be resolved to remain loyal subjects of God’s Kingdom, ever determined to stay in Jehovah’s valley of protection".

There you go again with your apostates, lol. I'm sure it must be your favorite word.

Good point. I wonder why this wasn't used as an example rather than Isaiah? I guess because we apply it to getting out of false religion and keep ourselves without spot from the world. But my main dispute really is that this is being used in a kind of foreboding way as a reason everyone should be obedient and cooperate with the Slave now.

Thank you. I wrote this late last night, and knew it wasn't really what I wanted to say. I wanted to talk about the "timing and survival and obedience"  I should have waited till my brain was in gear properly. Although the Slave has insinuated "hiding"  in the convention video, I understand that it was not meant specifically, as we really don't know. So I wanted the whole point of my post to be about the necessity to obey some additional command in order to survive, when already judged as sheep. I was wanting to reason on the fact that what would happen if as a sheep, you happen not to obey this specific command whatever it will be, "especially when it might seem illogical from a human point of view". Is it insinuating a kind of "Final Test" of loyalty? But does that make sense if already judged as sheep and marked for survival and is the concept of this kind of "Final Test" even scriptural? Are we not to be "found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace" without some additional requirement?
Why this additional need to prove our loyalty to God, by obeying the Slave to survive Armageddon, and why is the Slave using this as a reason to obey them now. Today, shouldn't we want to be cooperative with organizational arrangements  because it creates order and because we believe it is the right thing to do? Why does the Slave have to preface paragraph 20 in the book with the kind of sentiments in paragraph 19?
I will go and edit the title of the topic and and make some changes to the original post so that it reflects more of what I actually meant

There is no direct statement in the publications that we must "hide." You have included some bigger questions about timing and survival and obedience, and those are worth discussing. However, the logic of the two paragraphs indicates nothing about "hiding" in any modern-day fulfillment of Isaiah 26:20. The point was only that, in this past example, survival depended on obedience to "commands" and the same will be true in the near future.

Regardless of the fact that I do not share much of the Governing Body's explanation, when did the time for Jerusalem's destruction approach them, they did not have to stand up and go? Did not they have to do something practical and immediately even if they were old and sick?
From what little I understood (little: I used the translator) would not it have been enough that they had faith in Jehovah?
Since Jehovah is Almighty and can protect His people in any circumstance, Christians of the first century could also decide not to leave Jerusalem, no?
Obviously there are many other things to say.
The instructions come from the Word of God (and will not come from a divine inspiration) so it is important to study the Bible to understand what we must do when approaching the Armageddon War.
But many of us believe they have understood everything and are not allowed to discuss or look.
They wait for instructions from others.

Has anyone wondered about this?
God’s Kingdom Rules! Page 230, par.19 & 20  says:
How to Prepare Ourselves
19  How can we prepare ourselves for the earthshaking
events that are to come? The Watchtower stated some years
ago: “Survival will depend on obedience.” Why is that so?
The answer is found in a warning from Jehovah to the captive
Jews living in ancient Babylon. Jehovah foretold that
Babylon would be conquered, but what were God’s people
to do to prepare themselves for that event? Jehovah stated:
“Go, my people, enter your inner rooms, and shut your
doors behind you. Hide yourself for a brief moment until
the wrath has passed by.” (Isa. 26:20) Note the verbs in this
verse: “go,” “enter,” “shut,” “hide”—all are in the imperative
mood; they are commands. The Jews who heeded those
commands would have stayed in their houses, away from
the conquering soldiers out in the streets. Hence, their survival
depended on obeying Jehovah’s instructions.[2]
 
20  What is the lesson for us? As in the case of those ancient
servants of God, our survival of coming events will
depend on our obedience to Jehovah’s instructions. (Isa.
30:21) Such instructions come to us through the congregation
arrangement. Therefore, we want to develop heartfelt
obedience to the guidance we are receiving. (1 John 5:3)
If we do so today, we will be more inclined to obey willingly
in the future and thus receive the protection of our Father,
Jehovah, and our King, Jesus. (Zeph. 2:3) That divine
protection will allow us to witness firsthand how God’s
Kingdom will completely remove its enemies. What an unforgettable
event that will be!
Prior to those paragraphs, and in harmony with Matthew 24, it was made clear that the sheep and the goats will have already been judged, the sheep being marked for survival. Why would there be further need to follow some other instructions in order to survive? Matthew 24 does not indicate anything about additional instructions as a criterion for survival. In fact it says “then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned.  Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned.” This indicates that people will be in ordinary situations, when they are “saved”. The rest of the gospels focus on doing God’s will and following in Christ’s footsteps as the criterion for gaining salvation. "For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome" 1John 5:3. None of the Greek scriptures talk about any special instructions that will have to be obeyed during the great tribulation and Armageddon.  It is only Isaiah that mentions this in relation to surviving the overthrow of Babylon, with similar references to the Passover in Egypt and perhaps also Noah entering the Ark.
I wonder why the Slave thinks that the same pattern will be followed when the ultimate destruction comes, as if Jehovah is not capable of saving individuals wherever they may be. Looking at it from a practical point of view, not everyone will be physically able to “go” or “shut” or “hide”. Think of the old and infirm.  The scripture in Zepheniah 2:3 talks about doing specific things well before  the day of Jehovah's anger. “Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, Who observe his righteous decrees, seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you will be concealed on the day of Jehovah’s anger”.
The paragraph that follows,  (Par. 20) talks about us learning to obey the Slave now, so that when the time comes we will “obey” the Slave then, because our salvation depends on it.  But the scriptures clearly show our salvation depends on lots of other things, one of them being enduring faithfully to the end.  This was the symposium at this year’s Do not Give up convention as well. This included practical steps to “Run With Endurance”
·         Run to Win! (1 Corinthians 9:24)
·         Train Diligently (1 Corinthians 9:25-27)
·         Let Go of Unnecessary Burdens (Hebrews 12:1)
·         Imitate Good Examples (Hebrews 12:2, 3)
·         Eat Nutritious Food (Hebrews 5:12-14)
·         Drink Plenty of Water (Revelation 22:17)
·         Obey the Rules of the Contest (2 Timothy 2:5)
·         Be Confident of Gaining the Prize (Romans 15:13)
That pertains to everything we do now. And those are the things we will be judged on. That’s how we prepare ourselves surely? Not by obeying some last minute instructions as if Jehovah is not capable of saving each individual Witness wherever they may be, since the whole performance is going to involve supernatural powers anyway....Plus, it has been speculated that some may die at Armageddon, not by Jehovah's hand, but by other extenuating circumstances, even by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I will do some more research on this....
 

Some jw's don't mind their governing body talking down about them. Not a very christian attitude the governing body has towards their congregants.

From that article it would seem the governing body already knows most of their congregants have mental issue's.

:)))) interesting
Yeah, such effect is possible. So, it is visible in all known proverb "the tree can bend as long as it is young". That is why Bethel, or Military or Schools or some other organization can get better results with young people than with older. 
 
 
  

It is in the thread. You have been silent for some time. Read up on what you have missed.

Legal Department and other board directors aka GB must vote before final decision. It is Company.

Why can't Mr. Jackson make the changes within the org himself instead of waiting on secular gov't make him do it?
Why wouldn't he/they do this for the protection of the children? 

Relative to some others, you are a saint, I admit. Sorry.

How so? I've been very polite and respectful

ahhaahha NOOO Fisher.... it is in your mind ...you said, "you're legend"  :)))) i was never said that for myself.
Few more of your statements like this and you will come to be Legend :))))  

-anything what person can imagine is reality -
Before God created things, first he was had;
thought
idea
imagination
Do not forget this.
My imagination is not crazy as you think. Rational ideas are in there :)))  

He will pummel you nonetheless. That fellow knows law. Don't try to peddle emotion disguised as law before him,  because @Allen Smith will catch you at it every time.
Protest "pummelling," - my foot. It is not exactly badmitten anyone else is playing here. Even you have stepped over the line of sheer pleasantry.

Nice use of language.
"Jehovah examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one; He hates anyone who loves violence" (Psalm 11:5).

Perhaps for the same reason Pilate have had in Jesus case. Pilate want to get Jesus free, but for me-Pilate, (for us-GB) would be easier   if people (secular government) say what and how to do. And after that he ordered to bring to him water to wash his hands as sign that he have nothing with all that what took  place. And if/when somebody in future say something against, some critics - then he (them-GB) can point finger to other(secular government) and say "they have to take blame for that, not us. 
I have good imagine, don't you think? :)))))))))