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Gnosis Pithos

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  1. Haha
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    That is NOT the case. Or if it is, it is meaningless because of the word 'standard,' which can mean anything.
    What makes this statement anything more than emotion on your part is to say: In the States it's the legally-mandated standard that individuals who work with children are mandated reporters. Don't mess with me on this, or I will send @Allen Smith your way, who knows every law on the planet. He will pummel you to a finish.
    G. Jackson indicated to the ARC that he would welcome the modified statement: legally mandated across the board, and not just applied retroactively when you want to apply it to someone you don't like. It would make Witnesses job of keeping the congregation clean so much easier. That point has already been made in this thread.
  2. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Working with Children Check Policy
     
    The Working with Children Check is a screening mechanism to prevent certain persons from engaging in child-related work.
    2.1
    This policy takes effect from 15 June 2013 following the implementation of the Child Protection (Working with Children) Act 2012 and the Child Protection (Working with Children) Regulation 2013.
    This policy must be applied in conjunction with the Working with Children Check Procedures (15 June 2013).
    2.3
    This policy applies to people who are employed or engaged (or who are seeking to be employed or engaged) in child-related work in the NSW Department of Education, in any one of the following capacities:
    as a paid employee; as a self-employed person or as a contractor or subcontractor; as a volunteer; as a person undertaking practical training as part of an educational or vocational course (other than as a student undertaking work experience); as a minister, priest, rabbi, mufti or other religious leader or spiritual officer of a religion or other member of a religious organisation. link: https://education.nsw.gov.au/policy-library/policies/working-with-children-check-policy
    This would be good to implement, not only in some Australian states, but around the world. 
    What Does This Mean for Jehovah’s Witnesses?
    For Australian congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the process for appointing an Elder or Ministerial Servant is now a bit more complex than before. In the past, Witness males were recommended for their positions based strictly upon their “spiritual qualifications” – a subjective decision which allowed anyone to rise within the organization with little or no real knowledge of whether they have a criminal background, or if they are a sexual predator. Criminal background checks are non-existent, and the only question posed to a prospective Ministerial Servant or Elder moments before they are appointed is: “Have you ever been involved at any time in the past with child sexual molestation?” – [Elder’s Manual 2010, Chapter 3 Section 13] The answer to this question has always been based on the “honor system” – and you can be certain that a child molester would never answer such a question in the affirmative. 
    During the 2015 Royal Commission investigation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia, counsel assisting the Royal Commission, Angus Stewart QC, queried Watchtower Service Department chief Rodney Spinks, who admitted that the Watchtower organization had been completely disinterested in cooperating with the “Working with Children Check.”
    It seems that for the appointment of men in the JW Assembly, apart from the permission of the Holy Spirit, the elders, the provincial supervisor aka CO and the GB, is needed also a secular license for working with children. :)))
     
  3. Confused
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    It is typical of this world. When it at last wakes up to a moral problem, it wildly overreacts.
    The most blatant and current example is not in pedophile accusations at all, but in college campus accusations of rape. 
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/why-campus-rape-tribunals-hand-down-so-many-guilty-verdicts/article/2010401
    the article describes how it is almost impossible for an accused male student to win. It describes how, when the accuser's story is inconsistent or doesn't add up, that is dismissed as an expected result due to trauma.
    The prevailing cockeyed thinking is very much like the one advanced by @Noble Berean
    "why would you even want to take the chance of a sexual predator persisting in the congregation?" Simply substitute "college campus" for "congregation" and the thought is his.
  4. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    History of this subject in one short article:
    https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-witnesses-tab-for-child-sex-abuse-secrecy-2m-and-counting/
  5. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Witness in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Scripture supports this "idiom".
    "Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They make you worthless; They speak a vision of their own heart, Not from the mouth of the Lord."  Jer 23:16
    The entire 'fish' has stunk before, and it can again.
     Moreover the Lord says:
    “Because the daughters of Zion are haughty,
    And walk with outstretched necks
    And wanton eyes,
    Walking and mincing as they go,
    Making a jingling with their feet,
    Therefore the Lord will strike with a scab
    The crown of the head of the daughters of Zion,
    And the Lord will uncover their secret parts.”
     In that day the Lord will take away the finery:
    The jingling anklets, the scarves, and the crescents;
     The pendants, the bracelets, and the veils;
     The headdresses, the leg ornaments, and the headbands;
    The perfume boxes, the charms,
     and the rings;
    The nose jewels,
     the festal apparel, and the mantles;
    The outer garments, the purses,
     and the mirrors;
    The fine linen, the turbans, and the robes.
     And so it shall be:
    Instead of a sweet smell there will be a stench;
    Instead of a sash, a rope;
    Instead of well-set hair, baldness;
    Instead of a rich robe, a girding of sackcloth;
    And branding instead of beauty.
     Your men shall fall by the sword,
    And your mighty in the war.
     Her gates shall lament and mourn,
    And she being desolate shall sit on the ground.  Isa 3:16-26
  6. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Noble Berean in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    I understand that false allegations occur, but the well-being of a child trumps the psychological trauma of a false allegation. So, that really isn't an excuse not to report. Of course the police are not perfect, but they are more capable of doing a proper, thorough investigation than the elders. The police can obtain warrants to search property and uncover evidence, but the elders must rely on willing testimony. The elders are very limited in their investigation capabilities. In that way, the police can act as an aid to the elders. But it seems pretty clear that the organization wants to stay as far from the legal system as it possibly can.
  7. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Shiwiii in $66 Million Class Action Lawsuit Filed in Canada   
    cry me a river............
     
    if you do not like it here, then stop posting here and take your ball and go home. 
  8. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Shiwiii in $66 Million Class Action Lawsuit Filed in Canada   
    Are you saying that this forum, which is about jw's and the wt, is not the place to bring up topics such as these when they pertain to the wt specifically? 
    Get real J.R., this is exactly the place to bring this up. Also, just because there are other religions with the same problem doesn't mean we cannot point out the FACTS on this particular religion. Since I have never been a jw, I cannot be called an apostate. What I will accept is the title opposer, because I am opposed to ANY organization who hides people who prey on children and then covers it up to protect the perpetrator. 
  9. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Shiwiii in $66 Million Class Action Lawsuit Filed in Canada   
    Lets keep it real then. Why do you feel the need to distract from the facts? Why defend the actions of the Wt when you know in your heart that the policy is shameful? 
    NO ONE is saying that there is any group without sin, but it IS our duty to expose the sin within and clean it up. When people turn a blind eye towards sin and injustice it does not make it any better, it only fosters it. It is only when we decide that we as a people cannot accept these practices do things change and get better. We have a moral obligation to expose wrong doing for the protection of others and it doesn't matter who is the one committing that sin, its still wrong.   
  10. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in $66 Million Class Action Lawsuit Filed in Canada   
    Thanks! From article you provide:  
    "It is also reported that the abbey asked the court not to allow the claim because the seriousness of the allegations was likely to attract attention that may threaten the continued existence of the abbey.
    The women accepted what the Guardian describes as "meagre" compensation payments and received no apology.
    The solicitor representing the women, Tracey Emmott, told The Guardian: "It took the issuing of court proceedings before the out of court settlements were offered and even then my client's request for a formal apology as part of the settlement package was never forthcoming."
    Even Roman Catholic pope have done apology in public, i heard on TV. As i can see, GB "popes" have no intention to say something similar. What thinking they have? What kind of hearts they have?

  11. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in $66 Million Class Action Lawsuit Filed in Canada   
    Thank you very much for links you provide. How many more exists on this terrible crime. As i read articles one thing is very common to all this, no matter is Catholic, Anglicans, Jehovah's Witnesses or others. All of them, church leaders aka priests aka elders - covered up and keep in secrets from police and other governmental services. On this Forum i see many JW participate in informations. So, first clean the floor in your house, then tell other to do the same. Or as Jesus said this much better than me. "Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye but do not notice the rafter in your own eye?+ 4  Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to remove the straw from your eye,’ when look! a rafter is in your own eye? 5  Hypocrite! First remove the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the straw from your brother’s eye." - Mat 7:3-5 NWT
    Some quotes from articles you put show how  acts are very similar no matter which church is: 
    It was seen as sin. Today we see it as a sin, but we also see it as a crime.'  - Valéry Vienneau, Moncton archbishop
    "Fernand Arsenault, a priest - He accused the church of turning a blind eye to the abuse and concealing the crimes of those priests. "It's a terrible mistake," said Arsenault. "Because we would have saved many lives." Arsenault said that years ago, if a priest reported another priest, he would have been punished, not the abuser. But the church, in every filed statement of defence, has systematically denied knowing about any of the abuse at the time."
     
     
  12. Sad
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Evacuated in $66 Million Class Action Lawsuit Filed in Canada   
    Doesn't matter where you go.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-42039793
  13. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in $66 Million Class Action Lawsuit Filed in Canada   
    A group of alleged sexual abuse survivors from across the country have filed a $66-million class action lawsuit against the Jehovah’s Witness, CityNews has learned.
    The victims are seeking $20 million for damages from sexual and mental abuse by elders, $20 million for failing to protect children, and another $20 million for breach of duty of care.
    links:
    http://www.680news.com/2017/10/02/66m-class-action-sex-abuse-suit-filed-jehovahs-witnesses/
    http://mcstclassactions.com/
     
  14. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Latest News
    Warning to all wrongfully accused: keep all your records safe even when you think your case is closed Retain All Your Records in a Safe Dry Place even when you think Your Case Is Closed This may be especially pertinent […
    This remind me on  WT Letter addressed to all elders to DESTROY all notes and previous  WTLetters  on child molestation issues.
  15. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD DOWN -Idioms
    Meaning
    It refers to failing organizations and how the blame of it should be on its ‘head’ that is its leadership.
    :)) I am not from Turkey, hahah, but not also far away (cca 1800 km). 
  16. Haha
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Generally i can agree with thoughts you present here. Because i, as you, want to believe that human are honest and sincere, always.  But i am wrong in such conclusion :)))).
    There is a proverb;   "fish stinks from the head"
  17. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    If one elder see himself as,not feel he can do so, or not capable, or not fit to catch himself with issue, or not with same thoughts as Company - then would be honestly from him to step away from such position.
    Also, elders are not ordinary members of church.
    And on - "but anyone else can". No they can not because "anyone else" have not "privileged informations". 
  18. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    haha, so G.J. want to watering, dilute God's s word with secular laws. He want "mandatory laws" and by that have "justification" to put some "scriptural factors" down ???!!! 
  19. Haha
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Last sentence would comment.
    Bible revealed "mandatory reporting" on its pages. And WT GB very clearly explaining that to its members, to all JW around the World. Anna, you for sure know many bible verses about that and how WT publications interpretations on such issue must be, have be practiced, enforced in all JW congregations.
    So, as i see things, G. Jackson just looking for excuses in front ARC.  Here is what was also been said in ARC:
    "Mr Geoffrey Jackson agreed that all policies of the JehovahÂ’s Witness organisation are subject to scriptural principles and that the Governing Body approves all policies to ensure that they are in keeping with the Scriptures.96
    Branch offices around the world, including the Australia Branch Office,99 may write articles for the Awake! and The Watchtower publications, but the articles must be submitted to the Governing BodyÂ’s Writing Committee for approval.100
    Mr Jackson and Mr Toole told the Royal Commission that Branch Offices may adjust policy letters issued by the Governing Body to reflect the requirements of local laws.101 Mr Jackson said that it would be unusual for a Branch Office to publish its own manual or guidelines on responding to allegations of child sexual abuse.102 From at least the 1990s, under the direction of the Governing Body,103 the Australia Branch Office has periodically issued directives in the form of letters addressed to all bodies of elders providing instruction on how to respond to allegations of child sexual abuse.104"
    Current policy on child sexual abuse
    Mr Spinks told the Royal Commission that the current polices of the JehovahÂ’s Witness organisation for dealing with an allegation of child sexual abuse are outlined in:105
    • the Bible (the English edition published by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation is the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)
    • the current elders’ handbook, Shepherd the Flock of God106
    • Jehovah’s Witness organisation publications available to all congregants approaching baptism,107 such as Organized to Do Jehovah’s Will108
    • guidelines issued by the Governing Body to all branch offices in August 2013 on how Service Desks should field questions from elders about child abuse matters109
    • letters sent to all bodies of elders – in particular, the letter of 1 October 2012,110 which consolidated into one letter the spiritual advice and guidance provided in various letters from preceding years as to how Jehovah’s Witnesses handle allegations of child abuse111
    • The Watchtower magazine article entitled ‘Let Us Abhor What is Wicked’, published in January 1997, which clarifies in biblical terms the principles a congregation should have regard to in considering how a ‘child molester’ should be viewed and treated.112
    SO BY THIS I WOULD MAKE THIS CONCLUSION;
     DID NOT WT CORPORATION (HQ) BEEN AWARE FOR DECADES ABOUT LAW MANDATORY REPORTING OR NOT REPORTING, NOT ONLY IN AUSTRALIA BUT AROUND THE WORLD'?? IN ALL OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE WT COMPANY OPERATE??
    AND BECAUSE WT JWORG IS UNIFIED,  IN UNITY AND UNIQUE  AS  GOD'S ORGANIZATION, UNDER THE SAME SPIRIT, AND HAVE SAME TEACHINGS, DOCTRINES AND INSTRUCTIONS AROUND THE WORLD - THEN WHY GB NOT HAVE THE SAME  PROTOCOL AND PRINCIPLES AND INSTRUCTIONS FOR ELDERS IN EVERY SINGLE CONGREGATION AND FOR AVERY BRO AND SIS IN THERE'?? IN ONE COUNTRY ELDERS WILL REPORT AND IN OTHER NOT ??????????????
    G. JACKSON WAS INSTRUCTED BA LAWYERS WHAT AND HOW TO TESTIMONY. HE WAS NOT GUIDED BY HOLY SPIRIT.
    Sorry for big letters. Nothing bad,  no angry mood, just to accent    
  20. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    GB doing this periodically with excuses/explanation how "new light get brighter", was came on them and because that they changed teaching... and they, GB, literally using words how they not understand something in the past....but  now they do. "Now" will last to another changing of doctrine. 
    Is reasoning (rationale) in your sentence possible to apply on GB? :)))
  21. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Noble Berean in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Of course it means something. Where did I suggest otherwise? I know our WT literature makes it clear that sexual abuse is abhorrent. Those articles are referring to proactive ways to prevent abuse, but I'm referring to what procedures take place after an event has occurred. 
  22. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Noble Berean in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    That's info about ways to keep safe, but I wanted to see information on how elders handle sexual abuse allegations in the congregation.
  23. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Noble Berean in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Please do. It would really be great if I could just go on JW.org and they had a section on their website about their policies on sexual abuse in the congregation. But it's all kept under wraps. 
  24. Downvote
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Noble Berean in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Fair enough. Maybe elders didn't understand just how pervasive sex abuse was. But people know now that it's a threat. And yet there's an unwillingness to accept error or a need to change. 
  25. Haha
    Gnosis Pithos reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Bon apetite!
    Thanks for polite and mindful respond. Rare characteristic this days  ..... here :))))))
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