1 hour ago, NoisySrecko said:

The easiest way to explain Jesus words in Matthew is, one generation literally heard Jesus speak of Jerusalem destruction, while another generation actually saw that destruction. In the case of JW’s, the generation of 1914 has literally seen the commencement of the last portion of the final days of God's judgment, while the message of Christ continues until the last generation will see Jehovah’s day.

How can we be sure of this? We just need to remember the past. Jehovah spoke to Noah and instructed him to prepare for an impending destruction. While Noah was faithfully executing those commands, he was also warning people of this impending destruction. If they didn’t want to get caught up and consumed by it, they needed to repent.

When Jehovah’s final day of judgment came, was Noah and his family the “only ones” to literally see it? No! Everyone living on earth saw that judgment. Were they the only ones to experience that judgment? No! The spiritual world experienced that destruction. That means, Jesus, Satan and all the angels, good or bad, saw that judgment.

How many generations passed before all of human creation saw that destruction. Did any humans pass away? Would those who died before that judgment raised again after Noah settled in the land?

 

Another view can be seen with Jesus. Was Jesus actually present when judgment came to Jerusalem? How about some apostles. When Jesus walked the earth. Were all of Jesus generation present in 70 CE? Did Jesus raise “all” the dead in 33 CE? Peter raised someone from the died, Acts 9:36-42, so did Paul in Act's 20:7-12. So, how much authority did God grant at that time and was Jesus the sole recipient. By 1914, Christ heavenly enthronement gave him FULL authority over the living and dead. How can, we be sure? Has anyone after 100 CE been raised by Jehovah’s authority? Has Paradise been restored after 100 CE? No! That future generation that is spoken in Matthew has not seen the son of man’s full power and authority granted to him by his sacrifice. That is the debate Brothers Russell and Rutherford were bringing forward in their books.

 

1920-Millions now living will never die! Page 12

We therefore propose to prove in this argument that the social order of things, the second world, legally ended in 1914, and since that time has been and is passing away; that the new order of things is coming in to take its place; that within a definite period of time the old order will be completely eradicated and the new order in full sway; and that these things shall take place within the time of the present generation and that therefore there are millions of people now living on earth who will see them take place, to whom everlasting life will be offered and who, if they accept it upon the terms offered and obey those terms, will never die.

 ECCLESIASTES

1:4. Cod designed the earth to be the permanent home of man. and although now the generations succeed one another in death yet death shall cease, as other Scriptures show. P-115

 

WHAT PASTOR RUSSELL SAID

 SECOND COMING--Present or Future?

Q636:1:: QUESTION (1911)--2--In the twenty-fourth chapter of Matthew, Christ tells his disciples of many signs of his second coming, and in the thirty-fourth verse, says, "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." How is this statement reconciled with the belief that his second coming has not yet occurred?

 

ANSWER--A full answer of this will be found in the fourth volume of Scripture Studies. If my memory serves me right, there are about eighty pages on that one subject, and anyone interested would do well to read it very carefully. Briefly answering the question as it is here, we would say that Jesus in the narative carries the mind of his hearers down from the day in which they were to the time when these things will happen, and when these will happen, and these, and so on, pointing clear down to the end of the age, and then indicating that the generation that would see these signs down in the end of the age would not have fully passed away before the consumation of this age. Not the generation he was talking to, surely, but the generation respecting which he was talking, the generation that would see these signs when they would be fulfilled--that generation would not pass away, it would not be a long enough time to be more than a generation from the time certain things would be seen until the full consumation of the age.

 This holds true today inasmuch as it did back then.

 Have people seen a vaster deterioration of humanity after 1914? YES! This is literal and not a made-up assertion by historical accounts.

This would also strengthen a weak point by someone asserting that somehow Jesus was made King in either 30 CE or 33 CE. If the apostles had Jehovah’s authority to bring the dead back to life and Jesus was king, it would have undermined his Authority as king in heaven and on earth.

The concept of overlapping generations is not found as a searchable concept with JW’s, but can be found in the mind of an unreasonable person. JW’s should be confident their understanding of Matthew 24:32-24, Mark 13:28-31, Luke 21:29-33 are correct. 

Yes, agreed.  A generation can be applied to a people who lived during a specific period or span of time.  For instance 1914 through 2034.  This generation will not pass away as a whole.  

Notice the words of Jesus are very different from what opposers of Christ have stated, "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen." (Matthew 24:34)

The Last Days are a Conclusion of a System of things, 😀

The period of time leading up to the end of the system of things, or state of affairs, dominated by Satan. It runs concurrently with Christ’s presence. Under the direction of Jesus, angels will “separate the wicked from among the righteous” and destroy them. (Mt 13:40-42, 49) Jesus’ disciples were interested in the timing of that “conclusion.” (Mt 24:3) Before his return to heaven, he promised his followers that he would be with them until that time.—Mt 28:20.

2 hours ago, NoisySrecko said:

It was not lost in Brother Rutherford. In his book that you are debating, there are many instances on the restoration also. 

Millions now living will never die! Page 100

RESURRECTION
Not only will those living on the earth when restoration begins have the opportunity of life, but all the dead shall be awakened and brought back in their regular order and likewise be given an opportunity for life. It was the great Master
who declared: 'Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth". (John 5 : 28,29)

Clearly, the blessing here intended is life, liberty and happiness-a restoration to the very things Adam had forfeited by
reason of his disobedience. All the prophets who thereafter wrote foretold the coming of such times of restoration and blessing. P-72

However, he hit that home with his 1927 book Restoration. He gave a full account and explanation on the subject. Since we are dealing with understanding Brother Rutherford works, it is good to expand on the why. Should that stop us from understanding the bible any differently when the source is the same? 

His works of course are misconstrued by many unmentioned characters. This by no means shouldn't be a reason to fully appreciate the effort he contributed as a student of the bible. The Living, the dead, Restitution, Restoration, Heaven, Hades, Hell, Sheol etc. Intense subject matters that have the same meaning in scripture if understood correctly. 

It's possible that the restitution began in 1919 with the spiritual paradise.  Enjoy your reading of the following explaination.  If one takes the time limit found at (Genesis 6:3) the anointed may all be Heavenly by 2039.  

It would make sense some of the overlapping generation (remnant) would witness the End of the Last Days before being SUMMONED to heaven by the glorified Jesus Christ. 

Therefore, the restitution that began in 1919 with the spiritual paradise of the anointed would also be extended to those of the earthly hope to enjoy such spiritual benefits of joy and bliss. It does point out that the Restituton would begin in a Spiritual Manifestation in 1919 but then enter into a Physical Manifestation after 2039. 

Ops!  Hope I did not give too much information away here... 😁

What is with all this Advertising?  Money Money Money !  Greed Greed Greeed !

“What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, . . . nor greedy persons, . . . will inherit God’s kingdom.”

40 minutes ago, NoisySrecko said:

Perhaps Peter's words can also help your argument in Act 3:21. 

²¹ For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration (restitution) of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.

The view in the late 19th century was synonymous with restitution, rather than the modern view of restoration. That was the purpose of Brother Rutherford's book. It would be the adequate assumption for this time period of this debate.

What were other Christian sects preaching about eternal damnation and how the wicked would be condemned forever without the possibility of being granted clemency from the original sin. They referred to those wicked ones, the second death. But, what about repentance and at what time? What was Christ words recorded in Luke 23:43? While none of us can forecast who will be saved, we do know how we can guarantee our own destruction. By not obeying God and not listening to Christ by God's inspired words.

That was the message of that period.

It's possible that the restitution began in 1919 with the spiritual paradise.  Enjoy your reading of the following explaination.

46 minutes ago, Witness said:

Are you saying that God's judgment is more severe against the Catholic Church than toward His holy people " Israel" under covenant - the anointed priests (1 Pet 2:5,9), and GB whom we assume are anointed?  Does God expect your "Gentile" elder judges found to be pedophiles, to receive a slap on the hand, while you expect the clergy of the Catholic Church to receive a much more stringent judgment by the court system?

"So now we call the arrogant blessed; not only are the doers of wickedness built up but they also test God and escape.’” (read further Mal 3:15-18)

"Therefore, every one of you who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things.  Now we know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth.  Do you think—anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same—that you will escape God’s judgment?  Rom 2:1-3

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pointing out the Hyprocisy.  When was the last time a journalist reported an Atheist or a Believer in the Big Bang was invloved in Child Sexual Abuse?  Yet, out of the Billions of Atheists, not a single report?

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Yes, it is two separate things. As the article says, Armageddon will destroy those who support the current system of things. 

Judgement day (the 1000 years) is for those who have died before Armageddon and are resurrected. They will be judged either worthy or not worty of everlasting life at the end of the 1000 years.

The image is obviously depicting Armageddon, and yes, they have been judged.

There is a Judgement of the living and dead. Today we are in the Judgement of the Living.... it's pre-millennial. 

The Judgement of the living is pre-millienial during Christ's Presence of the Last Days. Once the wicked deny Christ's Presence as a whole, then comes the revealing phase of Christ's Undeniable Presence.

Read more...

Just a few of the many Catholic Church's Clergy... Most Catholics that are invloved with Child Sexual Abuse are with its Congregation and their Religion is over overlooked.  The Predator next door doesn't go up to your child and informs anyone that he is a Catholic.  

"

"The intractability and pervasiveness of the problem suggest that it is deeply rooted in the Church’s own history. In fact, several explanations proffered in heated debates about the current crisis—especially among Catholics—are wrapped in historical judgments, particularly about the development of the Roman Catholic Church since the Second Vatican Council (1962-65).

Some Church critics point to an ossified church structure and antiquated norms of sex and gender, including clerical celibacy and a male priesthood. Others denounce the subversion of the clergy by an assumed gay subculture or, more broadly, changing sexual mores since the 1960s." https://origins.osu.edu/article/catholic-church-sexual-abuse-pope-confession-priests-nuns

The global scale of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church

For instance, most here on this forum are not Jehovah's Witnesses. Most are members of Christendom and keep their membership a secret.  However, I am postive if all were throughyy investigated.  A good portion Never were Jehovah Witnesses at all..  There are thousands of sects of Christendom that point their finger but are totally SILENT about the Islam faith not to mention it's founder of the one the sects called Muslim never mention his 9 year bride.  Nor is media gonna to cover it.  And if there was such a report, the reporter would be targeted as a Relgious Bigotory for reporting Child Abuse and attacking the Muslim faith

Such hyprocisy helps the perpetrator to keep perpetrating on children.  

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

@BroRando Posted yesterday at 07:55 PM

  On 10/9/2021 at 7:34 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

In 1920, WTJWorg wrote and spoke nonsense. Why would anyone today have to believe they don’t do that anymore?

Those who are spiritually dying the second death don't believe then and like minded ones today still don't believe. Disfellowshiping a diseased one is a loving thing to do to keep the healthy and faithful free from disease spreading to the congregation.  However one should note, a person who is dying the second death is never redeemed, rather they have been abandoned. 

Just like in Jesus days on the earth when he stated to Believers, "Everyone who is Living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:26)

Today, there are many dying the second death as King Abaddon orders his angels to bundle up those who are stumbling others.  And that is a very good thing. 😁  Soon the Great Crowd will emerge... Forward March!

quote from link:

 The dead are totally unconscious and do not have a soul that survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14, 23, 24) Jesus will bring those asleep in death back to life again on earth.

qoute from another link : https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/where-are-the-dead/  

Such religious teachings all share one basic idea—that some part of us survives the death of the physical body. According to almost every religion, past and present, we somehow live on forever with the ability to see, hear, and think. Yet, how can that be? Our senses, along with our thoughts, are all linked to the workings of our brain. At death, the brain stops working. Our memories, feelings, and senses do not continue to function independently in some mysterious way. They do not survive the destruction of our brain.

Jesus Christ spoke about the condition of the dead. He did so with regard to Lazarus, a man whom he knew well and who had died. Jesus told his disciples: “Lazarus our friend has fallen asleep.” The disciples thought that Jesus meant that Lazarus was resting in sleep, recovering from an illness. They were wrong. Jesus explained: “Lazarus has died.” (Read John 11:11-14.) Notice that Jesus compared death to sleep. Lazarus was neither in heaven nor in a burning hell. He was not meeting angels or ancestors. Lazarus was not being reborn as another human. He was at rest in death, as though in a deep sleep without dreams. Other scriptures also compare death to sleep. For example, when the disciple Stephen was stoned to death, the Bible says that he “fell asleep.” (Acts 7:60) Similarly, the apostle Paul wrote about some in his day who had “fallen asleep in death.”—1 Corinthians 15:6.

Again, how do those who have died live?.... because imaginary Lazarus exercise faith in God and his promises given to Abraham about Jesus, but still died, after all. Stephen and many Christians in 1st century exercise faith in Jesus but they all "fallen asleep in death", as article state.  

"And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

The "wicked" are never resurrected, therefore, they die a permanent death.  Starting with Adam and Eve...

7 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Noisysrecko = Rando = Billy the kid = a dozen other Aka's   It's so funny. 

I think someone has gotten her goat?   Nice try Pearl but you are floundering using terminolgy from Christendom.  Don't breath those fumes from your witches brew.

20 minutes ago, Witness said:

Yes, your spirit-directed organization has been given power to spiritually “kill” anyone who rejects the organization  – who rejects the elder body – who rejects the GB, and who speak TRUTH. 

John 16:2-4

I was a JW, blind as you are for over 32 years.

"Are you personally proving yourself holy with regard to not associating with family members or others who have been disfellowshipped?" Watchtower 2014 Nov 15 p.14

Can you see that the disfellowshipped have lost, according to the elders’ ruling, all “holiness” before God?  Do the unholy/unrighteous inherit the Kingdom?  It is decreed that they are spiritually “dead” until they repent according to Watchtower’s rules. 

The elders represent the “image” of the spirit-directed organization. The elders “sit as God in the temple of God” showing that they have the (unlawful) ability to speak for God.  2 Thess 2:4; Rev 13:11,14,15,18

 

 

Nothing about killing anyone spiritually here. Your eyes seem to be failing you. Try some reading glasses?

10 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Are they dead or not?

So now we all know you  and all your cohorts don't believe in Jesus Christ.  You're gathering quite a big click. Well... actually the angels are collecting you.  Happy to see it.

13 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You have repeated the same paragraph several times. So, all the people who showed faith in Jesus, and it started 2,000 years ago, aren’t dead?

And you and the lady who is the OP keep rejecting Jesus Christ.  Never means never doesn't it? Are you two now going to ask if Jesus meant what he said?  Are you now claiming he was wrong?   I Believe but you have no faith... a person with no faith will tell you they have no holy spirit because they are forced to say so.

I wonder if anyone can find that quote from the OP that states she doesn't have holy spirit.. just a note..

The truth never changes, it's a Bible Principle. It doesn't matter how much time passes or circumstances change.  This teaching from my Lord and Savior is true! 

"Everyone who is Living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:26)

3 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Because they’ve had 100 years to refine. Others weren’t doing much of anything back then beyond running the trinitarian/hellfire route.

If you have to go back 100 years to dig up dirt, there can’t be too much dirt to dig.

Ya... what he said. If you went back almost two thousand years even Jesus Christ was teaching "Everyone who is Living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:26)

So there...  🙂

21 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In 1920, WTJWorg wrote and spoke nonsense. Why would anyone today have to believe they don’t do that anymore?

Those who are spiritually dying the second death don't believe then and like minded ones today still don't believe. Disfellowshiping a diseased one is a loving thing to do to keep the healthy and faithful free from disease spreading to the congregation.  However one should note, a person who is dying the second death is never redeemed, rather they have been abandoned. 

Just like in Jesus days on the earth when he stated to Believers, "Everyone who is Living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:26)

Today, there are many dying the second death as King Abaddon orders his angels to bundle up those who are stumbling others.  And that is a very good thing. 😁  Soon the Great Crowd will emerge... Forward March!

5 minutes ago, Witness said:

 

There is a physical killing and a spiritual killing.  Sometimes the spiritual ends up in the physical killing of the individual, through the reverberating effects of the practice of hate and shunning by JWs.

"Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to (physically) kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof. Satan's influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God's organization” Watchtower 1952 Nov 15 p.703

There.  That puts it in the minds of JWs, that anyone disfellowshipped or anyone who walks away from the organization, is as good as dead in God’s eyes.

JWs are famously known worldwide, for their “killing” through disfellowshipping and shunning.  (Rev 13:15)

Jehovah Witnesses can't (kill) anyone spiritually.  If you were a Jehovah's Witness, you would know that. 

Oh... is your husband in heaven now ruling as a king and still in need of understanding about the meek inheriting the earth? Just send him a text....  maybe you girls can send him a smoke signal through one of your seances...  

Last week you claimed not to be anointed and the week before that you were claiming Christ was God in John 1:1c...  Oh Pearl.... you're being engulfed....  it's so sad to witness you slipping away ever so slowly.

You're giving yourself away Pearl.  You want to take the lead so bad you formed a 'girls club'.  Or is it that you have simply signed up several accounts under different aliases to try to convince others you're a victim.  Pretend to take the night off as Pateiently then coming back under several aliases trying to give yourself a false support of ill-advised commentary.

OCD-hate is what you have.... you fool many...  if your husband left the organization as you now claim years ago..  you would have Never mentioned to the forum "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"

Evidently you have become senile in your old age?  Forgetting who you are under so many different accounts...  the years are just flying by aren't they?  

Like Forest Gump once told a friend of mine... stupid is... stupid does!   Oh... BTW... you were never a JW...you can't leave something you were never part of...   I don't know why Satan has embolden you to lie against holy spirit by claiming you were... oh well... easy come... easy go...

Ezekiel 9:5

9 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

A public talk titled "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living May Never Die" was first delivered on February 24, 1918 in Los Angeles, California. Five weeks later, on March 31, 1918 the title was changed to indicate absolute certainty: "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living Will Never Die." The public talk continued to be delivered under that same title until 1925.

Yes, Brother Rutherford wrote Millions Now Living May Never Die.  The statement is a fact of "truth".  Of course apostates and opposers of Christ will deny this statement.  But one should consider where the statement came from before playing false to the holy spirit in attacking this teacing.

Jesus Christ taught his faithful followers such as Mary, Martha, and his Apostles who were with him that, "Everyone who is living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (Matthew John 11:25-26) That indicates absolute certainty now doesn't it.  Now that I have quoted your misleading LIE, even you can't twist away from it PATIENTLY.

Jesus Christ made this statement under the inspiration of Holy Spirit.  So... to reject his teachings that have been inspired of holy spirit would be playing false to holy spirit itself.  This type of sin is unforgivable no matter who the one is speaking aginst this teaching.  "Whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come." (Matthew 12:32)

The Bible also gives us a warning about such ones. "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.  For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." (2 John 10)

The teaching about Never Dying at All is not new. Jesus Christ himself taught this to his followers and even onlookers almost 2,000 years ago!  

Those who lie against holy spirt will continue to do so openly, for Satan has embolden them. (Acts 5:3)

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Fake man or woman that you are, you must be getting quite close to blasphemy. 

It seems that you and Tom are almost accusing Jesus of telling lies. 

Your misuse of scripture is certainly not Christian behavior, so not worthy of note.

She can't answer so she is twisting....   you played false against holy spirit a long time ago.  That is why you tend not to believe Jesus words when he stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:25-26)

Making the statement Millions Now Living will Never Die doesn't make anyone a liar....  it's how you brought up the question that makes one a liar.   “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?”

4 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You JWs on here love to paint me all black and evil. So be it, but I find it funny  

You obvously didn't want to understand my questions. I even said

But this is the main point 

This is a very important issue. Because this makes a big difference in what the Watchtower / Org teaches.

THIS is what JWs are frightened of. Frightened of TRUTH. 

Keep kicking me down because it strengthens my faith in Almighty God through Christ. 

 

The answer is EASY... Why are Ex-JW's so Frightened of TRUTH.  

 Tell us how Jesus Lied when he stated almost 2,000 years ago that everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will Never Die At All. (John 11:25-26)

Maybe you're the LIAR?  If Jesus was really telling the TRUTH...

The Timothy scripture applies to people like you, but was written for the Anointed and now applies to those coming out of the Last Days.

2 Timothy 3:5

having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.

2 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

If I'm right what RUSSELL had built up was an Association of Bible Students possibly earthwide ? 

So, what Rutherford had taken over was this Association of Bible Students. But Rutherford broke away from that and formed an Organisation naming it Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931.

Now, this creates a question.  Who were the Millions now living that would never die ? 

This was 1918. Pre-JW.  International Bible Student era.  So exactly who did Rutherford expect to 'never die' ? 

(At this point it matter not that his prediction failed. More to the point of who he expected to live on).

And when Rutherford's breakaway 'group' were named Jehovah's Witnesses, did his idea change from 'Millions' now living will never die, to, Only JWs now living will never die ?

There must have come a time when the quantity of people expected to continue living decreased rapidly. Because Rutherford's JWs would have been far less than the original International Bible Students Association. 

So now the OP reports replies she Won't Answer... ssssss  ----  sssssss  tell us how Jesus Lied when he stated almost 2,000 years ago that everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will Never Die At All. (John 11:25-26)

Maybe you're the LIAR?

18 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No, but it raises a better one.

Please address Jesus’ words that seemingly make him a liar: 

Patiently is showing her true colors....  and hisses as she crawls on her belly,  Address the question... is Jesus lying by claiming almost 2,000 ago that

everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will Never Die At All. (John 11:25-26)

17 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Rambo making up his own rules now