Nana Fofana

Misjudgement again. Greber's rendering is quite acceptable. Greber and his demonic associates are not. 

Good to keep in mind that WT was using Greber's rendering as a support, not "Greber and his demons". 

Good question!
Even better answer:
2 Thess.2:9-11
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved.  That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie,"
 

Good to clarify this regarding the editions.
In fairness, the title page of the 1809 edition makes it clear that that the edition is BASED on Newcome's new translation. Also the Introduction, whilst acknowledging value of Newcome's work, lays out the principle that "no alteration should be made in the Primate'sTranslation, but where it appeared to be necessary to the correction of error or inaccuracy in the text, the language, the construction, or the sense,". And that, where an alteration was made to the text, "where it was thought necessary" , along with Newcome's rendering, "a short note has been subjoined, assigning the reasons for the alteration, which, to the candid and discerning', they flatter themselves will generally appear satisfactory." Also in connection with additional items of explanantion included, "that where it was thought necessary, a short note has been subjoined, assigning the reasons for the alteration, which, to the candid and discerning', they flatter themselves will generally appear satisfactory."
So, the revision is more honestly handled by this commitee than perhaps those who were responsible for introducing the Comma Johanneum earlier. (which Archbishop Newcome, admirably, omitted from his translation, albeit without a footnote comment.)
Certainly he did not, and the cross references provided in the footnote presumably are there to reinforce his view: 
Was God.] Isai. vii. 14. ix.6. Matth. i. 23. John x. 33— 36. Rom. ix. 5. Phil. ii.6. Hebr. 1.3, 8.
But not without a clear and explanatory foot note:
"and the Word was a god.] "was God," Newcome. Jesus received a commission as a prophet of the Most High, and was invested with extraordinary miraculous powers. But in the Jewish phraseology they were called gods to whom the word of God came. John x. 35. So Moses is declared to be a god to Pharaoh. Exod. vii. 1. Some translate the passage, God was the Word. q. d. it was not so properly he that spake to men as God that spake to them by him. Cappe, ibid. See John x. 30, compared with xvii. 8, II, 16; iii. 34; v. 23; xii. 44. Crellius conjectured that the true reading was ***, the Word was God's, q. d. the first teacher of the gospel derived his commission from God. But this conjecture, however plausible, rests upon no authority."
The readers must decide for themselves.
Quite true and good to point that out. It's being discarded, however, has not made one iota of difference.

What is "biblical Greek?" Are you sure that is not just "Trinitarian Greek?"

Great example.
This headed the list on p27 in the 1989 brochure, Should You Believe in The Trinity?:

You just cant leave it can you even though from at least 1865 this idea has been batted around? Unless you believe Greber was a reincarnation?? Maybe he was???
I don't know!! Even though this so-called support has long been discarded (1983), and even though the critics huff and they puff continuously , this house just won't fall down will it? Somebody has the issue round their neck it looks like. 
Anyway, thanks for the spar. I never had to look at the detail on the Greber stuff before. I have a study interested in this subject so it's been useful.
I'm really off now. Have fun.
 

Es macht nichts!
Just to end off this little sub-thread:
Greber and his demons were neither source nor support for the rendering of John 1:1 favoured by the NWT. The pre WT view of this text, along with pre-Greber references in the WT attest to this conclusion..
The KJV remains an excellent translation of the Scriptures, despite it's errors, archaic vocabulary, and embarrasing insertions, (paticularly 1John 5:7). I frequently use it as it still has currency in many quarters. 
I suppose it underlines one of the lessons in the account at Matt 19:25-26:
“Who really can be saved?” Looking at them intently, Jesus said to them: “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Bye for now!

What throws a shoe into the careful logic is that the Christian Greek Scriptures were written in ...oh ... what's the word I am looking for ...OH YEAH! ... Greek!
ACID TEST: Get a Bible written IN GREEK, their equivalent of the KJV, whatever that is ... and ask a native Greek educated person to explain John 1:1 to you.
Probably some regular folks at any Greek Orthodox Church. Might be a good experiment on a Sunday morning, after breakfast.
To find out who knows what ... ask him (or her) if they understand what a greek anarthrous predicate is. If they do ... show them the scripture.
All else is fibrillation for delusion.

This is stupid. 
I don't care if Franz's dog translated it. The fact is that it exists and it gets high scholarly marks. Witness the experts testifying with regard to Russia's attempt to ban it. Not their witnesses, of course, but everyone knows their witnesses couldn't translate their way out of a paper bag.
Not Trinitarian witnesses, either, because their beliefs dictate their scholarship instead of the other way around. And there are some who genuinely have trouble with 'Jehovah' in the New Testament - it is cutting edge based upon Septuagint fragments and not all want to cut so deep. But except for that, the NWT is very well received. 
Who can say how much of the NWT translation was farmed out to experts who, being Witnesses, also wished to remain anonymous like Franz so as not to distract from the true author of the work?
You want to find the 'qualifications' of the translators so you can gloat that they don't have any, in case they don't. How 'qualified' do you have to be with language? Put a baby in a bi-lingual home and he grows up knowing two, without any teaching at all. Put it in a tri-lingual home and it grows up knowing three. Okay, ancient language adds a degree of complication, but even so, it is just communication and that is humankind's oldest trick in the book. Since jw.org is translated into 900 languages, it seems clear that the prestigious universities that teach language ought to come crawling to us, and not the reverse.
It's the technique of the lazy lout who must know the qualifications of the translators to determine if the work is any good or not. Before my wife and I bought the home we now live in, we looked it over carefully for quality. We even hired an inspector. Satisfied, we moved in. We have no idea who actually built the house and have never lost a moment of sleep on that account. 
 
 

Are they trinitarian or not? That's all you need to know. If they are trinitarian they will hate the NWT, because their beliefs dictate their scholarship.
If they are not trinitarian they will be okay with it. They will recognize it as a legitimate translation, with both strengths and weaknesses.
You have just answered your own question. If it was in the Septuagint, then it should be in the NT, because when OT verses are quoted in the NT, the quotes are taken, not from the Hebrew, but from the Greek translation of the Hebrew - the Septuagint.

It could not have been a better fit. The water flowed from the throne of Ezekiel's temple, which could not have had literal fulfillment because they would have had to build it on a spring and they didn't.
Later during the same meeting, the Bible Study covered all the schools held throughout the organization. Comments thinned out as the study progressed because nobody had gone to the latter schools so they had nothing to say off the top of their heads.
Okay? The water is the 'life-giving' spiritual food. And where is it more manifest in the schools, some available to all and some more specialized? Yet the schedule for the Bible Study is months old. The schedule for the Bible reading? Maybe a century, as it is 'wash, rinse, and repeat.'

Over 50 alternative healers "found" dead in last two years. With NO accountability. Very sad day for the family and friends of this beautiful soul. 

OK, Ok, OK ... the aircraft landed safely and no one was hurt ... I was trying to protect her puppies from mob retribution.
I started out with 16 joke writers, and JWI forced me to get rid of the last one when it did not go well ....
.... sigh ...
 

You have a far more challenging role on this forum than I, JTR, for you are trying to denigrate something that is undeniably good and that has some breathtaking accomplishments to show for it. True, they are human and thus they may misstep here and there. Seizing upon such missteps, for reasons i know not, have become your lifeblood.
You can invariably be made to look very small by harping on things, even when true, of an organization going places and doing things that no one has gone to or done before. Anybody with any ability to express thought through words via keyboard can do this. I even believe there are more here who could easily do it but they feel sorry for you somehow and refrain. I try to pick up the slack.
For crying out loud, come in from the cold, will you? Call a truce and bring your considerable talents - for you are a Mickey Spillane and who cannot love a Mickey Spillane? - to bear on a cause that will make you friends in high places, just like he did. He was a raucous, bigger than life, no-nonsense character with great humor and humility (and I see that all in you)  that undoubtedly locked horns with 'bureaucrats,' and I can so easily see the two of you as interchangeable, if only you would straighten out and fly right - as he did after a few choppy runs.
Whatever things have blown up in your face, as things have blown up in mine, count it as discipline from God that he permits - if doesn't cause - and let it mold you into a better person. Run with what you can and keep low-key about what you cannot, since you probably do that in your private person. You seem to have family and friends that care for you, unless you are writing of the past. Mend fences with them if you are & focus on them if you are not.
Remember, JTR, you no longer own the Hall that you built with the sweat of your brow. If you do not shape up, I will send an LDC brother to shut it down, sell it to a tomato distribution company,  and make you drive 30 minutes to another one.

JUST IN:
Hurricane Irma
A JW  Brother from Puerto Rico:
Thanks to the Lord here in Puerto Rico we barely had the impact of the storm. But let me tell you what situation we are with only estimated winds of 90-95 mph. We are without energy / water on 90 % of the island. We have big old trees ripped from their roots. There are places underwater and it's still raining. There are roads closed by water, or fallen trees or cables everywhere. And again, we barely had any winds.
We have seen images (via phones) of Barbuda, st. St. Maarten. Thomas, and the situation is worse there. This week was I guess we started our visit to co, and also, a great construction work of our kh by ldc. The Co's visit was suspended, construction work is now pending, because they may need the ldc brothers to move to that island for disaster relief.
We thank Jehovah for our great brotherhood who is praying for us. And here we are praying for our brothers and sisters on those islands that may need our help.
Our brothers on Irma's path, listen to the instructions of the elders. Listen to the authorities. He doesn't think this can affect him. Save your life.
May Jehovah bless you all. I'm gonna try to publish sooner.
_________________________________________
THEY SAY THIS STORM IS WORSE THAN KATRINA AND HARVEY!!!! ...NASA's Terra satellite captured this image of Hurricane Irma at 10:35 a.m. local time on September 6, 2017.NASA Earth Observatory
Hurricane Irma has already left hundreds of thousands of residents of Puerto Rico without electricity hours before the worst of the storm is expected to hit.
Nearly 300,000 people were already without power by Wednesday afternoon, The New York Times reported. About 4,000 were without water because the electricity was out.
The Miami Herald reported that parts of the island could be without power for four to six months.
At 4 p.m. on Wednesday the eye of the storm was still about 70 miles northeast of San Juan, but the island was already feeling the storm's tropical forces.
The National Hurricane Center's forecast Wednesday afternoon predicted that the Category 5 storm would start pounding Puerto Rico within hours, passing by the island's northern coast.
Just after 3 p.m. local time, Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello reported about 2,800 people and 230 pets were already taking refuge in shelters after evacuating.
Hurricane Irma
Waves crash against the seawall as Hurricane Irma slammed across islands in the northern Caribbean on Wednesday, in Fajardo, Puerto Rico September 6, 2017.REUTERS/Alvin Baez
Ricardo Ramos, director of the Puerto Rico's sole power company, PREPA, told local radio station NotiUno on Tuesday that some residents could have their power restored in as soon as a week, while for others it could take months.
Part of the problem is the island's debt crisis and crumbling infrastructure. PREPA, a government-owned utility, defaulted on nearly $9 billion in debt in July, NPR reported. "The dangerousness of this event is like nothing we've ever seen," the Rossello said. "A lot of infrastructure won't be able to withstand this kind of force." He urged residents in the path of the storm to evacuate, and President Donald Trump declared a federal emergency in Puerto Rico to free up federal resources.

JUST IN: JW NEWS ON Hurricane Irma
??????????
??British Virgin Islands
There are 256 Jehovah's witnesses.
Irma caused " catastrophic damage ". thousands of homes were destroyed and the area was " absolutely devastated ". in the United States Virgin Islands there were three dead and severe damage to the island's infrastructure
??Anguilla
There are 70 Jehovah's witnesses.
Irma's step left dead and damaged at the main hospital and airport; the electrical and telephone services were also damaged
??San Martín and san bartolome
There are 691 Jehovah's witnesses
9 Dead and 95 % of the island destroyed. No drinking water or energy.
??Antigua and barbuda
There are 489 Jehovah's witnesses.
Totally devastated, the whole island underwater.
News Hurricane Irma
Since last Sunday, all the committees responsible for the areas where the hurricane happened, advised the congregations not to wait at the last hour to be prepared.
??They tell us from Florida:
It's crazy here in fl, so many cars on the street getting ready for the storm. We went to the supermarket yesterday and was flooded because they were almost out of water, managers saying that they would have to ask for an emergency supply at that rate. The Soup, crackers and good preserves were backed up, everyone having the same idea, not perishable! Long lines even though gas prices Rose 40 cents in our area, but now they're completely out of gas. My family and I have made plans to evacuate the north, but we have removed our emergency packs only in case the traffic is backed up, with first aid kits, extra food, clothing changes, multiple tools like flashlights, etc.
The reaction to the storm has been to open your eyes. My family and I are not concerned about the damage to home that come as our lives are much more important than that, but for some people it's all they have. Material things are their God, so they're falling behind to keep their "priceless" THINGS FROM THE STORM AND LOOTERS. Some are simply not taking the warnings seriously, (sounds familiar? ), thinking that they are hard enough to ride a category 5. Hurricane makes me think of their priorities.
I will keep you updated in the future, the storm must get to Florida on Saturday.
(Translated from Spanish)
??????????

Wow!  Thank you for the report.

@The Librarian
I hate sad news, but we know more is coming! We must send the warning ⚠️ the times are short now. 
Satan is now raging war on the earth ? and seas ?. Revelation 12:9. Woe for the earth ? and the seas ? Knowing he's got great anger. 
Be Safe! 
???????

I have a friend that is honeymooning in Antigua ...hoping and praying that they are safe.

Agreed
Utter rubbish, I see no mention of abstaining from Christmas, Easter, Birthdays Etc. in any of the scriptures you mentioned.....nor any other scriptures. It is only in the wt publications is that mentioned. This is in direct opposition to Colossians 2:16 as I stated above. 
 
true
Unsubstantiated claim to align yourself with what you think is the "truth", since none of that can be found in scripture.
You are correct here, it is only by faith that we have salvation (1 Thes 5:9, 2 Tim 3:15). Not any org, not a group of men, nothing but Faith. 
What scriptures support this statement? I mean, what scripture was not available when the cross, Christmas and 1925 were all practiced by jw's? Can you provide these scriptures that changed the views of the gb? By the way, I'd prefer NO organization,
 
. You can't be serious.....here are just a few:
1967 "We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." (Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591)
1973 "Consider too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone in all the earth is directed by God's holy spirit or active force." (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, page 402)
1976 "We must take seriously what his Word says and what his organization reveals to us.... Would not a failure to respond to direction from God through his organization really indicate a rejection of divine rulership?" (Watchtower, February 15, 1976, p. 214)
1984 "Faith in Jehovah, faith in those whom he is using as spokesmen, yes, faith in his organization! As we 'go out' to Jehovah's service today, how important it is that we exercise such faith!" (Watchtower July 1, 1984 p17)
1981 "Prophecies open up to us as Jehovah's holy spirit sheds light upon them, and as they are fulfilled in world events or in the experiences of God's people." (Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p. 17)
 
Really???? Explain it to us then using scriptrue
 
Paul did not need to gain approval from anyone but God, which he already had by means of his faith. In fact, I believe it was Paul who called those at the council in Jerusalem  "false brethren" Gal 2:6. Why did he call them this? Because they were imposing additional teachings upon Christians! I think, but I might be wrong,  those additional teachings might have been no blood...or no birthdays...or there is no hell....following a group of men....etc. Doesn't really matter the fullness of the additional teachings, what matters is that adding the "law" (whatever "law") is wrong and against God's ways...
by the way, the part about birthdays and blood and hell was only for reference, it was about additional "laws" kinda like the :laws" the gb/wt puts upon its members. 
 
 
I also noticed how quickly you ignored my reply above about reading the Bible alone. 

I have the most information on him than any living person. Yet even I can say almost nothing as to his personality. A few deeds remain, that is all.
To me it indicates the futility of this system. When one dies, they are very soon forgotten.

If you don't get what I mean it is because I did not take enough time to read you. It is my fault. Sorry.
 
They are not 'new stories' when initially 'spun.' It's the insinuation of deceit that disturbs me and the expectation of silky smoothness that strikes me as naive.  I see no reason to think they are not peering ahead absolutely the best they can, and that God allows it. The errors of those who took the lead in the first century would certainly suggest he does.
To some extent they are the same thing. If God is worth his salt, he provides capable human leadership. How would you feel if the cockpit door swung open and the pilot shouted: "Hey, anybody here know how to fly this thing?"
The other way to look at everything here is to suggest that the nervous nellies ought to get a grip on themselves. When the plane encounters choppy weather and the flight attendants retreat with their refreshment carts so Coke does not splash all over everyone, I fasten my belt as advised and ride out the turbulence without undue concern. I don't reach for the flotation seat cover.

Nana, there are some here attempting to divorce the murmurings of Moses from the murmurings of the Christian congregation headship. This verse will not let them get away with it. Thanks.

Is it a bad thing for parents to teach their children? It is spun that way in an increasingly irreligious world. And should a child take its parental training to heart, is it a bad thing to let him follow through on it?
Years ago during our homeschooling days, a local family was fined for violation of the child labor laws. They ran a small deli. It was nothing for their children to take turns at the register when they returned from school, and one was doing so the day Child Protective Services appeared. Homeschool pioneer John Holt pointed out that (not this case, but he had many others) this was the very reason children become delinquent - they are shut out of the adult world under the guise of protecting them.
Among the philosophical underpinnings of compulsory public education (nobody had a problem with voluntary) is that children ought be separated early from possible pernicious influence of the parents so as to be molded by greater society. Thus, schooling cannot wait until adolescence - it must start early. To this day, compulsory school advocates carry on about the imperative of socialization - which they maintain is only to be found in schools. If anything, their brand of it argues against them. People behave horrendously today - there are even teens who shoot up their schools. Yet they have all been 'socialized.'
It is not true that if you withhold teaching your child, he will grow up free and unencumbered and, when of age, choose for itself among life's rich cornucopia of ideas. No. All it means is that someone else will train him. 
When Witness parents are progressive - as all are exhorted to be - they will digest the family resources found abundantly in Watchtower publications and will produce emotionally secure children. Hopefully these will stand up a flood of propaganda that Christianity is passe or even undesirable. But even if they reassess later on in life, they have a secure foundation to build upon. At the very least, they will be comfortable speaking before an audience, something that terrifies many an adult.