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Noble Berean

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  1. Upvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    They already did.
  2. Upvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    This really puts a bad mark on Jehovah's name. It's concerning to me that more and more people are coming to associate the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses with child abuse.
  3. Downvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Not really. The organization admitting wrongdoing is unlikely. They're too proud to do that. No matter what the outcome, the organization will spin itself as a victim. The organization will never say it has committed a crime even if the courts rule against them. They will spin at as spiritual warfare. That's just the way it is.
  4. Like
    Noble Berean reacted to TrueTomHarley in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    You say that it is fallout from doing what no one else has attempted to do: monitor wrongdoing (of all sorts, but here specifically child abuse) so as to accomplish two things, which actually collapse into one. 1.) discover abusers so as to administer discipline, up to and including disfellowshipping, so as so follow God's command to keep congregation as clean as possible, and 2.) keep track of any abusers, so that they cannot slip out of one congregation and into another - as they can anywhere else.
    You acknowledge missteps have probably occurred. Nonetheless, instances of abuse would never be associated with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses were that organization like the general world of religion - which takes no interest in the conduct of its members and considers their conduct none of its business. 
    Having said that, the brother who first proposed keeping track of such accused abusers has been assigned to permanent potato-peeling duty in the Bethel basement for upwards of 40 years now, and may be the inspiration for the book: "Forty Years a Watchtower Slave."
    This is a common response to guard against crazies, not directed towards anyone in particular, to my knowledge. The disciples even locked their doors for a time. Jesus found a way to get around that, but anyone else would have had a hard time. Who knows - maybe even the Texas shooter in the Baptist church would have been dissuaded if he had had to first blast into the building from the outside.
  5. Upvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Witness in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    @Srecko Sostar you are being personally downvoted for spreading the news about our organization and that's sad. This isn't an apostate fabrication. Does reality trigger JWs on here? Us JWs have to face the reality of what's happening instead of digging our heads in the sand. We may face these questions in the ministry. 
    Honestly, the organization needs to be 100% transparent right now about their child abuse policies, because we act as representatives for them when we go out. I shouldn't have to view some weird PDF of the Shepherd's Flock book to get a grasp of the org's policies (which I still don't get). 
  6. Upvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Shiwiii in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    @Srecko Sostar you are being personally downvoted for spreading the news about our organization and that's sad. This isn't an apostate fabrication. Does reality trigger JWs on here? Us JWs have to face the reality of what's happening instead of digging our heads in the sand. We may face these questions in the ministry. 
    Honestly, the organization needs to be 100% transparent right now about their child abuse policies, because we act as representatives for them when we go out. I shouldn't have to view some weird PDF of the Shepherd's Flock book to get a grasp of the org's policies (which I still don't get). 
  7. Like
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Ok, but what will it prove? If they win, they've still acknowledged they have a secret list of alleged abusers in the congregation. If they lose, the courts get the namelist and it appears that the organization resisted complying with secular authorities. I don't see how any of this can be spun in a positive way.
  8. Like
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    They already did.
  9. Sad
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    @Elisabeth Dolewka I can't wait for this day when our biggest worry will be what's for dinner!
  10. Upvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Anna in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    @Elisabeth Dolewka I can't wait for this day when our biggest worry will be what's for dinner!
  11. Thanks
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    @Srecko Sostar you are being personally downvoted for spreading the news about our organization and that's sad. This isn't an apostate fabrication. Does reality trigger JWs on here? Us JWs have to face the reality of what's happening instead of digging our heads in the sand. We may face these questions in the ministry. 
    Honestly, the organization needs to be 100% transparent right now about their child abuse policies, because we act as representatives for them when we go out. I shouldn't have to view some weird PDF of the Shepherd's Flock book to get a grasp of the org's policies (which I still don't get). 
  12. Downvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Ok, but what will it prove? If they win, they've still acknowledged they have a secret list of alleged abusers in the congregation. If they lose, the courts get the namelist and it appears that the organization resisted complying with secular authorities. I don't see how any of this can be spun in a positive way.
  13. Downvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    I hope that is the case...for Jehovah's name to stay clean and unblemished from these sexual abuse cases. But I believe we have only scratched the surface of these child abuse cases. As these legal cases before more frequent, I worry the media will soon eat this up. I can't imagine having to explain these policies to someone in the door-to-door ministry. I would just say I have no control over the organization's legal policies and that I would always report to the police.
    Surprisingly, a man did show up at my former kingdom hall asking about the child abuse to elders. They had to lock the doors after that. There is a rumor that Leah Remini may focus on Jehovah's Witnesses as a spinoff of her show on Scientology. And I also saw that Dr. Phil might include JWs in an episode on controlling religions/cults. It's all worrying to me, but it's just another brick in the wall.
  14. Upvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    Why are they not respecting the superior authorities? How does giving this namelist violate our beliefs?
  15. Downvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    They already did.
  16. Downvote
    Noble Berean got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    This really puts a bad mark on Jehovah's name. It's concerning to me that more and more people are coming to associate the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses with child abuse.
  17. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    On June 23, 2016, San Diego, California, Superior Court Judge Richard Strauss grew tired of the Watchtower Society fighting his order to produce a 1997 letter sent to all elders worldwide, and decided to sanction the religion with a fine of $4000 per day until the Watchtower complied with that order. 
    Today is  November 12 2017. Quick mathematical say that this Company payed almost $2 000 000 until today. Imagine how many ice creams children in JW congregations  would be able to enjoy after Sunday meetings in KH, with this fund. Imagine how many poor bro and sis in congregations worldwide would be helped and receive some comfort for daily life.
    But as Bible say: Proverbs 22:2 -"The rich and poor have this in common: The Lord made them both." 28:6 - "Better to be poor and honest than to be dishonest and rich."
    Source: JW Victims.org
    https://jwvictims.org/2017/10/18/news-update-watchtower-appeals-4000-per-day-fine-by-flipflopping-on-their-own-legal-argument/
    https://questionsforjehovahswitnesses.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/d070723-marked-up.pdf 
  18. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to Anna in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    The formal ruling according to the court of appeals document dated Nov. 9, 2017 page. 39 (the link to the document posted by Witness above)
    "On the record before us, we are satisfied that the superior court's order was not arbitrary, capricious, or whimsical. To the contrary, the superior court has shown great patience and flexibility in dealing with a recalcitrant litigant who refuses to follow valid orders and merely reiterates losing arguments. We therefore affirm".
    Therefore the fine stands.
  19. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to Bible Speaks in A premature baby received a blood transfusion on the orders of Mendoza Justice   
    MENDOZA (DyN) - A premature baby received a blood transfusion on the orders of Mendoza Justice, since his parents profess the religion of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which prohibits such medical practices.
    The baby who was born with 30 weeks of gestation and weighs 1,200 kilograms had to undergo a blood transfusion due to his critical state of health, as determined last Friday by doctors at Humberto Notti Hospital, in the city of Mendoza.
    The parents of the child are Jehovah's Witnesses, a Religion jthat rejects the practice for what the doctors went to Family Justice, the Los Andes newspaper reported. The head of the Intensive Care Service of Notti, Adriana Bobillo, explained that the child was anemic and suffered from enteritis so he did not receive oxygenation in the intestine, which endangered his life. Before this intervened the Fourth Family Court of Mendoza that issued an order to enable doctors to carry out medical practice. After the transfusion the child remarkably improved his health status and no longer needs a respirator, although he is still at risk of life due to low weight.
    For its part, the director of Maternity and Childhood of the Province, Monica Rinaldi, explained that it is usual the procedure adopted by doctors to go to court when the child's life began to be in danger and they knew that the parents are of that religion .
    Although, the official said, judicial intervention is avoided as much as possible, she assured that when a judge intervenes and gives the order, many parents feel relieved and released from a decision that contradicts their religious convictions, but that in case of not taking out puts your child's life at risk.
    GOOGLE TRANSLATED -
    http://www.elintransigente.com/sociedad/2017/11/12/bebe-borde-muerte-religion-demoraron-transfusion-actuo-justicia-466184.html

  20. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to Anna in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    I don't think the order ever went through because the WT appealed the decision. If I do enough digging around I may be able to find out what the final result was.
    OK. Dug around a bit and found  out the appeal was heard 11th October 2017 and the appellate court has 90 days to issue its formal ruling. Watch this space
  21. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to Witness in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Did the vast majority of JWs come to the conclusion that 1975 was the date of Armageddon – on their own? 
    How did these people come to the realization of the world ending, unless they were convinced that the leaders in control understood Bible chronology?   Consider global warming; whether you believe it or not, you are relying on the scientific experts to tell you what’s happening with the planet; but in this case it doesn’t affect your relationship with family and friends if you choose one side or the other.
    Surely you see the confusion by individuals reading the various articles and references to the date, as well as hearing live talks -  all coming from “Jehovah’s organization” and his “mouthpiece”.   
    There was a 14% growth in member in 1974.  Why?   I am sure you know why.
    By 1976 the growth rate dropped to 4%. 
    In 1977, it dropped further, -1%
    “Expectation postponed” made their hearts so sick, that many realized the Watchtower was not an organization run by God. 
    How do you dismiss scripture, Eoin?  How do you read God’s word that condemns false prophets and ignore it?  Was there ever an instance that God told the nation of Israel to tolerate it?  Think of the generations of JWs that have put up with false dates and changing doctrine; hanging on because the authority over them so thoroughly convinced them it was “Jehovah’s will”, that they remain faithful to the organization!
     “And the Lord said to me, “The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart. 15 Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who prophesy in My name, whom I did not send, and who say, ‘Sword and famine shall not be in this land’—‘By sword and famine those prophets shall be consumed! 16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; they will have no one to bury them—them nor their wives, their sons nor their daughters—for I will pour their wickedness on them.’”  Jer 14:14-16
    Isn’t this exactly what the organization teaches, that no sword or famine will come upon the Watchtower?  If we take all of this with a grain of salt, then we are blind to God’s righteous expectations to follow his Word closely.  Ezek 14:21; Rev chapter 6
    It appears you are attempting to defend a sinking ship.  I truly pray you get off before its too late.
     
  22. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to Matthew9969 in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    The idea that 1975 would witness the end of the world was first introduced in 1966.

    IT'S AMAZING HOW YOU CAN TAKE THE WORDS "6,000 YEARS OF MANS EXISTENCE WILL END" AND MAKING IT END IN 1975 AND CONCLUDE THAT IT REALLY DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL.
  23. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to Witness in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    “Nourishing Spiritual Food”? 
    I cannot advocate the website listed at the end of this short video, as I haven’t gone there.  Also I do not see verification that the money from the sale of houses, properties and goods was given to the Watchtower at that time period.  But I will not dismiss the large possibility.  What is important about this video, is hearing how 1975 was truly proclaimed from the source; quite contrary to how the 2017 convention presented it: 
    “…you see, back then, some were looking to a certain date as signifying the end of this old system of things. A few, even went so far as selling their homes and quitting their jobs. (km 5/1974)"
    “But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.” 
     You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?”  When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.              Deut 18:20-22
    “This is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are making you worthless. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the LORD's mouth.”  Jer 23:16
    “Behold, I am against the prophets, says Yahweh, who use their tongues, and say, He says. 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, says Yahweh, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their vain boasting: yet I didn’t send them, nor commanded them; neither do they profit this people at all, says Yahweh.”  Jer 23:31-32
    If we claim to read God's Word and live by it, then God's Word should help us distinguish truth from lies.  Matt 3:10
     
  24. Haha
    Noble Berean reacted to Evacuated in Is this legit? Is there a kingdom hall/assembly hall in Helsinki, Denmark shaped like the Eye of Providence (Illuminati)? Perhaps our Denmark brothers/sisters could chip in...   
    Yes indeed. It's like that face the Incas carved into the mountain back of Machu picchu. What were they up to???

  25. Upvote
    Noble Berean reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Married Jehovah's Witness is caught stripping in a stranger's living room as his horrified wife watches by live video link   
    I just looked at the YouTube video of this and it just SCREAMS being "clickbait". The man has a six day stubble goatee, and is wearing a backpack, and is not carrying anything in his hands .... I have in over 50 years never seen any JW go from door-to-door without at least  a Bible in their hands, at the door, or nowadays  some electronic tablet.  The vocabulary and syntax and sentence structure is all wrong, and NOBODY is being identified.  With evidence like this there is NO fear of being sued  for truth, in a private home with the owner or renter's permission, so there is no reason NOT to identify the people.  It may be in fact real, but that is not the way I would bet, for the reasons stated.
    Many people produce "clickbait" for money ( they may get 1/2 cent per "click" , but with 50.000 clicks that adds up . In this theoretical example ....  TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS.   During the  2016 US Presidential Election Campaign  folks in the Ukraine were  producing a constant stream of absurd, outrageous political clickbait, and were getting 5 to 10 THOUSAND dollars a WEEK on 1/2 cent clicks from media advertisers, whose ads showed before the video started playing.
    Clickbait is a pejorative term for web content whose main goal is to get users to click on a link to go to a certain webpage. Clickbait headlines typically aim to exploit the "curiosity gap", providing just enough information to make readers curious, but not enough to satisfy their curiosity without clicking through to the linked content.[1][2][3]
    From a historical perspective, the techniques employed by clickbait authors can be considered derivative of yellow journalism, which presented little or no legitimate well-researched news and instead used eye-catching headlines that included exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, or sensationalism.[4][5] For sites that thrive on thousands of click-throughs to content, many authors see the use of clickbait as a means to tap into human psyche by crafting these eye-catching headlines.[6]
    Clickbait is a pejorative term for web content whose main goal is to get users to click on a link to go to a certain webpage. Clickbait headlines typically aim to exploit the "curiosity gap", providing just enough information to make readers curious, but not enough to satisfy their curiosity without clicking through to the linked content.[1][2][3]
    From a historical perspective, the techniques employed by clickbait authors can be considered derivative of yellow journalism, which presented little or no legitimate well-researched news and instead used eye-catching headlines that included exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, or sensationalism.[4][5] For sites that thrive on thousands of click-throughs to content, many authors see the use of clickbait as a means to tap into human psyche by crafting these eye-catching headlines.[6] -  -  from Wikipedia
     
     






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