Noble Berean

Understand the reference as to Jehovah's view.
But has it been to the highest "earthly" court? Or is there a further appeal pending?  Can't work out where it is from these postings.

Watchtower Loses Appeal of $4000 Per Day Fine
d070723-marked-up.pdf

..and now for something completely different, to releve a great deal of stress and wasted effort .... a short musical interlude ...
 

NO No Noble Berean, you are reading too quickly! I said this "Any other "heirarchical perception" exists only in the minds of those men who hold it I'm afraid, whoever they are."
I didn't say that there isn't a hierachy, I said that any hierarchy that attaches a position-related value to individuals within it exists only in the mind of those who hold that perception. Interesting how an unreality can be part of an unfortunate reality don't you think? 
Anyway, don't worry yourself unduly over it. It will all get ironed out. "Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power." 1Cor 15:24.
Seems best to get in line now to me...really! It relieves a great deal of stress and wasted effort. 
 

I know you think that my complaints are fault-finding, but I'm seeking truth just like anyone else on here. And things just don't always add up to me. I've given a lot of my time and energy to this organization, and I need to know that my decisions are right.
Comparing the GB to Moses? Moses was a prophet of God. He performed miracles. Murmuring against him was inexcusable. The GB has made missteps in direction that have negatively affected people. Again and again we must give the GB free passes for their errors in direction and continue giving them unquestioned loyalty. Do other JWs have that luxury? If we're all "equal" then why is their a double-standard?
I think a spirit of working together is important, but it's so difficult to work together with this organization when there's basically no room for personal conscience.
We've all worked with someone that is dogmatic and micromanaging. It is frustrating. Personal research has taught me that many matters are gray rather than black-and-white. Accepting the GB as the group taking the lead is not my issue. I understand that for an organization to function there has to be a person or group taking the lead. I just can't shake my belief that the GB has gone too far in its control. I would praise the GB if they allowed for more areas of personal conscience. That would show a trust in their fellow Christians to follow God to the best of their ability...according to their own Bible-based conscience. Instead, we have a system in place that shows a mistrust of Christians, because we all need to live on a short-leash. We are punished if we question the status quo. Are JWs genuinely motivated to find spiritual truth or stay in line with a human organization? These are concerns I have.
Working together as a body implies collaboration...does one organ have absolute authority over the entire body? The way the human organization is now...one group directs and the 7+ million other members obey. Does that sound like a body working together?
The GB's attitude toward its role in the congregation is frustrating. They feel that they are the definitive authority on doctrinal understanding, but where does it say that in the Bible? I need a little more than just trust us. The FDS parable has always been a claim of authority, but now the organization states that most of Jesus parables are not prophetic. So, why would the FDS parable be any different? This new thinking weakens the GB's authority.

Now you've piqued my curiosity

Please leave the poor kids out of this, it's not their fault

Wasn't Charles Taze Russel an Apostate who read the Bible on his own, and was despised by his "Christian Contemporaries"?
I know Sir Isaac Newton derived the EXACT  same basic core philosophy we have .... and he did it based on reason and logic applied to the Bible ... presumably alone.
He, like myself, may have had a real problem ... with Caleb and Sophia.

I don't like admitting it, but I have a big problem with this paragraph. I had thought it had been a while since we had made similar remarks, but here it is, as recent as last year. (Noble Berean mentioned it in one of the threads too).
Study WT Nov. 2016 p.16 par. 9
"Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food. Since 1919, the glorified Jesus Christ has been using that slave to help his followers understand God’s own Book and heed its directives. By obeying the instructions found in the Bible, we promote cleanness, peace, and unity in the congregation. Each one of us does well to ask himself, ‘Am I loyal to the channel that Jesus is using today?’
What do others interpret this to mean? Surely, one thing is dispensing, and another is interpreting...

Should be able to go to edit at the bottom of your first post..and from there you can change the title....

1 John 5:20  "But we know that the Son of God has come,  and he has given us insight* so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.
* Lit., “mental perception; intellectual capacity.
  Proverbs 2:1-4  "My son, if you accept my sayings And treasure up my commandments, By making your ear attentive to wisdom And inclining your heart to discernment;  Moreover, if you call out for understanding And raise your voice for discernment;  If you keep seeking for it as for silver, And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures; Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah, And you will find the knowledge of God".
Is this only the privilege of the Slave/GB or is it all of the anointed and by extension those who are associated with them, the great crowd?

I know you think that my complaints are fault-finding, but I'm seeking truth just like anyone else on here. And things just don't always add up to me. I've given a lot of my time and energy to this organization, and I need to know that my decisions are right.
Comparing the GB to Moses? Moses was a prophet of God. He performed miracles. Murmuring against him was inexcusable. The GB has made missteps in direction that have negatively affected people. Again and again we must give the GB free passes for their errors in direction and continue giving them unquestioned loyalty. Do other JWs have that luxury? If we're all "equal" then why is their a double-standard?
I think a spirit of working together is important, but it's so difficult to work together with this organization when there's basically no room for personal conscience.
We've all worked with someone that is dogmatic and micromanaging. It is frustrating. Personal research has taught me that many matters are gray rather than black-and-white. Accepting the GB as the group taking the lead is not my issue. I understand that for an organization to function there has to be a person or group taking the lead. I just can't shake my belief that the GB has gone too far in its control. I would praise the GB if they allowed for more areas of personal conscience. That would show a trust in their fellow Christians to follow God to the best of their ability...according to their own Bible-based conscience. Instead, we have a system in place that shows a mistrust of Christians, because we all need to live on a short-leash. We are punished if we question the status quo. Are JWs genuinely motivated to find spiritual truth or stay in line with a human organization? These are concerns I have.
Working together as a body implies collaboration...does one organ have absolute authority over the entire body? The way the human organization is now...one group directs and the 7+ million other members obey. Does that sound like a body working together?
The GB's attitude toward its role in the congregation is frustrating. They feel that they are the definitive authority on doctrinal understanding, but where does it say that in the Bible? I need a little more than just trust us. The FDS parable has always been a claim of authority, but now the organization states that most of Jesus parables are not prophetic. So, why would the FDS parable be any different? This new thinking weakens the GB's authority.

Seriously, I think we should stop being hung up about old Moses. Those days are gone. Otherwise we will be like those who didn't like Stephen because he spoke about Jesus...the greater Moses:
 Acts 6:8-14  "Now Stephen, full of graciousness and power, was performing great portents and signs among the people.  But certain men rose up of those from the so-called Synagogue of the Freedmen, and of the Cy·re′ni·ans and Alexandrians and of those from Ci·li′cia and Asia, to dispute with Stephen; and yet they could not hold their own against the wisdom and the spirit with which he was speaking.  Then they secretly induced men to say: “We have heard him speaking blasphemous sayings against Moses and God.” And they stirred up the people and the older men and the scribes, and, coming upon him suddenly, they took him by force and led him to the San′he·drin. And they brought forward false witnesses, who said: “This man does not stop speaking things against this holy place and against the Law.  For instance, we have heard him say that this Jesus the Naz·a·rene′ will throw down this place and change the customs that Moses handed down to us.”
 
 
 
 
 

Yes, very neatly laid out. But it still misses the point. The attaching of relative value to people just because they occupy this or that functional role in an arrangement of humans, even if it's theocratic,  is where the problem lies. Everybody does it we know, and as @JW Insiderdeftlly points out:
Jehovah puts it more bluntly when He says that the inhabitants of the earth "are like grasshoppers" at Is. 40:22.
Jesus gave clear counsel at Matt.20:24-27 when he instructed his disciples: "Jesus called them to him and said: “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. This must not be the way among you; but whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave".
There will always be problems when the waiter starts to think he is more important than those at the table, just because he has the job of handing out the food. Even Harry Callahan observed of a "waiter" with deluded self importance "You're a legend in your own mind".
There is much that could be said on this matter. But to stay on topic, the '75 brouhaha was(is) the product of the minds of "grasshoppers" in the heat of the sun. One starts jumpin'.... they all start jumpin'........
Thankfully, it's all cooled down a bit now, on that front at least. 

If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If it were all hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has arranged each of the body members just as he pleased.  If they were all the same member, where would the body be? - 1 Corinthians 12:17-19
It is enough that Witnesses can entertain whatever notions they want on these periphery teachings - you are far too hung up on asserting they cannot. What they cannot to is grab hold of the wheel of the bus. Many verses speak to promoting sects and stirring up divisions.
This is not difficult and I cannot understand your harping on this. If you can't accept something, don't accept it. Nobody says you have to shout these things from the rooftops. It is increasingly hard not to take these complaints of yours as the complaints of Korah: 'that is enough of you because all of Jehovah's people are holy.'
People here are searching for the divine/human interface. It is perfectly okay to do if you assume there IS no divine/human interface - that it is all a matter of human politics. Just be honest about it. But if you concede there is one - I am uncomfortable trying to peek between the curtains of the tabernacle into the Holy compartment - which is why I don't go there. And it is not getting caught by the attendants of the priest or even the priest himself that worries me.
 

  hi·er·ar·chy noun noun: hierarchy; plural noun: hierarchies a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

Edit:
 

What is it then? The organization wants unquestioned loyalty, but when it goofs up that's on individual JWs? You can't have it both ways. It's a contradiction. This isn't the only time that the org plays two sides of the coin.
It's dishonest for the organization to suggest that 1975 enthusiasm was generated by some rank & file JWs. That's the implication from that convention video. Any active JW knows the organization is tightly controlled, and those at the top are in control of the wheel. WT literature promoted 1975 as an end-date and endorsed JWs who sold off property and made life adjustments in expectation of it. JWs who believed in an impending end and made major life adjustments did exactly what the WT encourages JWs to do today: "Listen, Obey, and Be Blessed."
So, what did we learn from the 1975 failure? How is our situation today any different than it was 42 years ago? JWs continue to hang onto the words of the GB like gospel, and that attitude is still promoted in our literature. The GB was wrong about 1975, but ultimately people moved on. But as our time is reduced in this system, our decisions have greater weight, so correct direction matters more.

  hi·er·ar·chy noun noun: hierarchy; plural noun: hierarchies a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

Edit:
 

What is it then? The organization wants unquestioned loyalty, but when it goofs up that's on individual JWs? You can't have it both ways. It's a contradiction. This isn't the only time that the org plays two sides of the coin.
It's dishonest for the organization to suggest that 1975 enthusiasm was generated by some rank & file JWs. That's the implication from that convention video. Any active JW knows the organization is tightly controlled, and those at the top are in control of the wheel. WT literature promoted 1975 as an end-date and endorsed JWs who sold off property and made life adjustments in expectation of it. JWs who believed in an impending end and made major life adjustments did exactly what the WT encourages JWs to do today: "Listen, Obey, and Be Blessed."
So, what did we learn from the 1975 failure? How is our situation today any different than it was 42 years ago? JWs continue to hang onto the words of the GB like gospel, and that attitude is still promoted in our literature. The GB was wrong about 1975, but ultimately people moved on. But as our time is reduced in this system, our decisions have greater weight, so correct direction matters more.

Good point. "Rank and file" has bee a common expression within Bethel for the publishers outside the Bethel headquarters.
Sometimes F.Franz used the term "rank and file" and sometimes just "the publishers" as in "the publishers don't always know what they need until they see it." Assembly talk in 2014 spoke of how the faithful slave is producing material and that "You, the rank and file take it from door to door." (He was a circuit overseer, so I remember wondering if he should have said "We, the rank and file . . .") A member of the Governing Body speaks of the "rank and file" witnesses in the 2011 video "Jehovah's Witnesses -- Faith in Acti0on." Also the Watchtower has used it a couple of times: *** w86 9/1 p. 28 Must You Be in the Limelight? ***
A similar situation exists in the Christian congregation. Some individuals are used quite prominently, but others play rather inconspicuous roles as rank-and-file publishers of the Kingdom message. Should these ones feel, however, that they are somehow less important because they are not in the limelight? But it's true isn't it, that each of these "prominent ones" should also be considering themselves to to be the "rank and file" at least on weekends.

Just because something is not true does not strictly mean it is dishonest. I have honestly seen perhaps dozens of people who knew all about the publications drumming up speculation about the 1970's but who were then very quick to blame themselves or decide that they weren't at all affected when they were. What I think I have seen is that blaming individual Witnesses instead of the publications for the speculation became a mental rite of passage for all those who lived through it but didn't exactly know what to say afterward. In 1976 we got the message that it was our own fault, and I think this came at the peak time to settle any confusion about what just happened. I remember thinking that this was easier if all of us just saw it as our own weakness because we don't have to worry about the reputation of Jehovah's organization, and we are all humble enough to take the blame. It seemed to me that whole congregations were breathing a sigh of relief that this was the solution. I think that most of us (I'm guessing 66%) were thoroughly convinced that it really was our own fault. Those who didn't fall for it were given a chance to judge themselves as slightly superior to those who did.
And the reason it worked is that it was partly true. While the WTS had requested that we speculate about 1975, and it drove the parameters of that speculation so that we would see a high probability of end-time events taking place that year, we were never told specifically that Armageddon would come that year. Yet this was exactly what people were thinking. That was improper, individual speculation. The closest the Watchtower had said was that the 1970's would see end time events. The events would begin, not years, but only months from 1975. This is really the equivalent of saying, before October 1977, (because that would be "years" not just "months"). But there was enough looseness to the language and the tie in with expectations for the 1970's so that we should not have been surprised if the end took until 1979. But it was almost surely going to happen prior to 1979.
In 1976 we really had been speculating about a specific year (1975) and we were never told to do that, per se. Yes, we were told to speculate, but there really were unwarranted conclusions being drawn from the speculation. It seems curious how even the internal speculation at the Society's headquarters was not going to wait until 1977 to see if it really would be only months, not years from 1975. They understood that when 1975 was only a few months behind us, that the whole speculation had to be put to bed. In fact, they put the brakes on the speculation beginning in the summer of 1974, as I recall.
So all the initial enthusiasm had been generated by the WTS publications, but only up through 1973, and even then the most important enthusiasm had been at assemblies between 1968 and 1971. I think that HQ knew that there was something wrong with the 1975 thing in late 1973 and early 1974. They probably felt that after the counsel beginning in the summer of 1974, any individuals who still pushed 1975 with the same enthusiasm were on their own.

I am going to go out on a limb slightly.
2022!!!
Be Ready
only 1457 shopping days left for someone to buy your home.

Amen to that, and probably in that, relief that Armageddon did not come in 1975 if they're honest!

This reveals a basic characteristic of those who "observe" JWs from the sidelines. The presumption of a sort of heirarchy along the lines of typical human organisation.
Actually, all JW's are rank and file. Any other "heirarchical perception" exists only in the minds of those men who hold it I'm afraid, whoever they are.. So in reality, 1975 enthusiasm, (other than enthusiasm for just another "last days" year nearer the end than 1974), was generated by some rank & file JWs. And there were some other rank & file JWs who did not share that enthusiasm.

It might be that low, assuming you don't trust the Watchtower's own reports. But if you're right, it means 98% of us were not obedient when we were asked to speculate in 1968 through 1973. This might give us a better picture of why the WTS brought the subject of 1975 up again, and it might answer @Anna's question about the lesson to be learned. 
Here's what I think it is:
1. The WTS has been highlighting the idea of obedience and following any and all instructions even if asked to follow a course that does not seem reasonable or rational. This idea, spelled out in 2013 below, has been repeated again this year.
*** w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17 Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes—What They Mean for Us Today ***
At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. 2. But someone will point out that when asked to follow instructions in the past, such as when we were told to speculate in the late 1960's and early 1970's, many people ended up doing things that were considered wonderful at the time (like selling your home) but irrational upon looking back on that time.
3. To answer this objection, the WTS knew it had to address the 1975 issues again, but remind us that this was the fault of individuals speculating on their own, and not the fault of the WTS.
 
So I'm thinking that some brothers put the 1975 skit together specifically as a way to clear up that particular objection about the past, so that we are better prepared to be obedient without objections in the future. We don't want to be overly concerned with reasonableness. If we feel always tied to a reasonable, practical, sound or strategic instructions, we will need to adjust our thinking because these could be a hindrance to following instructions. Some would say this is similar preparation given to the soldiers in the poem "The Charge of the Light Brigade" by Alfred Tennyson:
   Theirs not to make reply,    Theirs not to reason why,    Theirs but to do and die.   I'm not saying this is all bad advice. Egos get in the way of progress when one always relies on the absolute best solution. There is paralysis through analysis. Perfect becomes the enemy of good. People who are not humble need to leave well enough alone. But in trying to prepare people for the likely needs during such a time, which is based on speculation anyway, it's probably best to start with reasonable suggestions rather than telling everyone to prepare to follow advice that may sound unreasonable. If you are gong to speculate on what the advice could look like, then speculate on some specific scenarios so people know what you are thinking. Otherwise we are asking for a different type of follower than the ones that Jesus and the apostles asked for.
(Philippians 4:5-7) 5 Let your reasonableness become known to all men. . . . 6 Do not be anxious over anything, . . .  the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.