Srecko Sostar

13 hours ago, Anna said:

If it's any consolation, I only read to about paragraph 10 😃

It seems that i made myself to be only naive here .... i read until last dot :))))) 

Anna, you did it on purpose, didn't you? :)))))  to catch some bugs and flies in the net

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

If they needed a space for someone or a worker, or even for guests or whatever, they would have bought it because it was needed at the time and is now no longer needed.

This is no doubt correct. The Society did the same thing in the Brooklyn area, as sometimes they would need to bring in a brother who had his family with him. There was also a need to house certain elderly brothers and sisters in a place where they could get physical therapy, nursing visits, palliative care, etc., with some privacy and out of the way of the hustle and bustle of Bethel life.

Correct me if i am wrong, but as to my knowledge and experience with Betel, i understand that you need to have specific purpose to be accomodate in Betel room as simple, ordinary JW. And that is not because of your personal matters you have to do outside of theocratic activity. For example, if you travel from Osijek to Zagreb for some private stuff (hospital, looking for new job,....etc) you can't count that Betel in Zagreb will give you room to stay one or more nights for sleeping. 

For example: When i was invited with other bro/sis, who had roles in bible drama for convention, for recording in the studio (and that was as i can recall my last visit before they closed Austria branch) only those involved in drama was Bethel's guests . Exceptions was made only for husbands or wives of individual actor. So, if you were single you can't expect that your friend will be allowed to be accomodate in Betel room with you.

In time when Zagreb Bethel was made preparation for first opening i volunteered some 3 months in gardening. They officially gave me a room, but only in theory. I went back to my home for sleeping after working hours.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

 I know that because of jehovahs spirit working in them.

This remind me on something. Each person who are able to recognize, to see holy spirit manifestation in other person (words and deeds) also need to have that same spirit. Or opposite spirit perhaps :))

Illustration: If i speak German i can recognize and understand all people who speaking German. If i don't speak German i can make guess how some language is German but will not be able to understand what German people saying. 

It is possible to make conclusion that GB is under influence of particular spirit, if you are under same spirit influence, too. 

But if you are under influence of other spirit you will see difference, too. 

49 minutes ago, Anna said:

35. Why is this no time for indifference and complacency?

³⁵ One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!

One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation!

Here authors said how some "fulfilled Bible prophecy" showed something. This would mean how WT Society knew at that time what was already fulfilled or it will be. Is this claim really correct? Because they made interpretations about human events and projected their expectations, explained them as Bible prophecies. This was common practice.

Another thing, let me remind please what was explanation of "generation" in 1968?

49 minutes ago, Anna said:

The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975.

 But they knew "something" about 70., what was more important for them :)) .... and it seems how "instructions" (gave from Jesus, and not Jeruzalem GB)  showed themselves as reasonable even from human standpoint. :))

25 minutes ago, b4ucuhear said:

obey God as ruler rather than men.

“We Must Obey God as Ruler Rather Than Men” 

This is something that not sound to me as doctrine. This sound as standpoint. Also we have to take context. Apostle responded with this statement as position on Sanhedrin's command that they must not preaching....about what? Peter and John answered: “We cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard.” 

Well, this is original context. Some other examples speaking about similar things where JHVH and Jesus' servants refused to do something or have done something. Life has got to be more complexe through centuries, so we have now more explanations and interpretations how should look like today's reality of "obey god rather than man". Even things about education come to be viewed through this sort of glasses. Advice to not going to higher education coming from "spiritual place" as god's instruction through GB. Not obeying counsel/advice/recommendation in this matter is considered as not putting god on first place in life. But contrary, own selfish ambitions. As consequence this could be understand that you listen/obey yourself and not god. 

About what JW's of today can making claim as apostles did? What things JW today "have seen and heard"  that make their standpoint so firm to obey god as ruler? They have seen and heard only their faith and beliefs. Because they have not seen and heard nothing similar what apostles or first christians experienced.  

And this is good way how system making doctrines that sounds like "the truth". And after some time you will read new articles with similar explanation :))) ... year after year.

● At times there are changes in viewpoint on Biblical subjects discussed in the Watch Tower Society’s publications. We speak of what we believe as “the truth.” But does “truth” change?

Yes, it changes. Because you believe in new, advanced knowledge. "The Truth" should not to be knowledge, but Principle. Because Principle is older than this what we calling "the Truth". Even in JW understanding when they speaking about something that is so firm and deep, unchangeable, they using word "Principle" not word "Truth". Principles in Old Testament, for example, that stood behind some laws of Moses, are visible in New Testament too. 

In that context we can talk about Moses Law as "The Truth". Perhaps old Israel people used same or similar wording to describe what they think and feel about God' Words. But this kind of "Truth" and their "Truth" are gone. (Not completely, because we have Israel of today.) So, "The Truth" was changed, even more, with time it had been abandoned gradually by new formed Jew congregations. "Old truth" became useless as sort of knowledge about what, how, when and why to be practiced in daily life.

Principles stayed. Love God, love neighbor are most known.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light.

Are JW people, who are involved in making money with buy and sale business  inside WT Society, those "sons of this world" :)) because of their wisdom how to handle and make arrangements with "wicked generation of darkness" ?

15 hours ago, Witness said:

 I wonder what the anointed JW women feel about a female’s apparent transition into a man, who are clones of each other.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  Gal 3:28

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Just as a bride and groom are not identical to each other, neither is Christ’s Bride of many members; either to Christ, or to one another, as the illustration erroneously shows.

Individuality and unity is what should be expected, and not clones as you said well. According to vision and description with word "bride" in the Bible, it would be more accurate to see artistic pictures of female persons (in heaven or earth) as 144000.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

they are reigning upon the earth”

I can say how don't see any special need for 144000 to be in Heaven for purpose to reign. That can be done also very good from Earth too. But maybe we can say, for fun, that problem is hidden in transferring power of spirit from Heaven to Earth. We been explained by WT Society how "miracles" stopped. In that context it seems how one of "miracle" is to be inspired by God also finished in 1 century. :))) Perhaps that could be reason why is important for 14400 to be lifted in Heaven. Because distance must be too far, too long to be handled by spirit. :)))) 

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. - 1 Cor

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16

This too verses show how distance is not obstacle for spirit's activity in 1 century. I really don't see why GB and Helpers making issue and such problem about "inspiration" and "be inspired" ?!! :)) 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and  is definitely not the epitome of luxury -  which impression you are trying to create

This is relatively true. Relativism is based on perception. It depends in what part of world you live, and how much income you have. Generally, i believe how most JW's do not belong to people who have more (surplus money) than they need for some "normal" life. Of course, we all can do some changes to live more modest life than we do now. But it is not good to be "clever" in advising how some other people should live in their circumstances, and not for yourself.

And this is also good advice for WT Society. To not give lessons about modesty when they using expensive building projects and other advanced technology for few so simple request Jesus put on people: Love God, Love people and give testimony about your Faith and Hope. 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed.....

Is there any similarity or parable with this?

Jesus told his disciples: “There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. ² So he called him in and asked him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management, because you cannot be manager any longer.’

³ “The manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do now? My master is taking away my job. I’m not strong enough to dig, and I’m ashamed to beg— ⁴ I know what I’ll do so that, when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses.’

The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light.

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

They can use this money to assist brothers

 I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

Perhaps is about various Bible scholars who like to find deeper (prophetically) meaning of almost every Scripture?

Paul Simon, full lyric,

Kathy's Song

I hear the drizzle of the rain

Like a memory it falls

Soft and warm continuing

Tapping on my roof and walls.

And from the shelter of my mind

Through the window of my eyes

I gaze beyond the rain-drenched streets

To England where my heart lies.

My mind's distracted and diffused

My thoughts are many miles away

They lie with you when you're asleep

And kiss you when you start your day.

And a song I was writing is left undone

I don't know why I spend my time

Writing songs I can't believe

With words that tear and strain to rhyme.

And so you see I have come to doubt

All that I once held as true

I stand alone without beliefs

The only truth I know is you.

And as I watch the drops of rain

Weave their weary paths and die

I know that I am like the rain

There but for the grace of you go I.

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Also, perhaps by coincidence, the immediate context of Colossians.......

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.

I am not so sure that Colossians speaking about coincidence. 

I never thought this way, but questions comes after reading this Colossians verses. What sort of "created lordships or governments or authorities" already existed in the heavens and on earth, especially in time period before, in the moment and after Adam and Eve were created? Have some idea? 

New born human society was made of two. I see, in Genesis, how Adam had sort of "power" over animals. Eve had free will and autonomy, just like Adam. Only after Cain's crime we see how he had big fear over his life because there was possibility, that some people (who they are, where they lived, what structure they created??) will kill him because of what  he has done. 

I see here some issues. God didn't punished Cain (God is Lord, Government and Authority). Adam didn't punished Cain (Adam was his father, but he didn't show he had any power over his son). Some unknown people, living who knows where have some thoughts about killing Cain, because he murdered Abel. Why would they be interested in this Adam's family "business"? And why they were interested in "punishing" Cain? 

What sort of structure, legislative (lordships or governments or authorities) existed inside this outside group, tribe, society, that show us how they had something what Adam and Eve family, tribe hadn't ?

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

- double measure of spirit - 2 Cr. 2: 9

correction 2. Kings 2:9

@Witness , I read material in link. I like wording in there speaking about knowledge in mind and love in heart. But, of course, when this two working in harmony, results (fruits) are better.

Dear reader.

You have often come across terms, God's holy spirit and God's love.
You have also often prayed for the favor of God, among other things asking that God's holy spirit help you, guide you, to have a spirit. Some Bible passages say that God gives something to people.

We find expressions that say how God gives:
- his spirit without measure - John 3:34.
- a certain measure of faith - Rom 12: 3
- a measure of grace - Eph. 4: 7
- measure of authority - 2 Cor. 10:13
- a double measure of blessing - Isaiah 61: 7
- double measure of inheritance - Deut 21:17
- double measure for bad deeds - Rev. 18: 6

Also how a man seeks or receives from another man:
- double measure of spirit - 2 Cr. 2: 9
- double honor - 1 Tim. 5:17

There are also allegations relating to love. How love is given or received and under what circumstances:

And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him. ”- John 14:21
For God loved the world, - John 3:16
I love those who love me - Prov 8:17
Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens - Psalm 36: 5 -7
I have loved you with everlasting love; - Jer 31: 3

From these statements we can see that love also works under certain circumstances. Sometimes it's eternal, going to heaven. Sometimes it is conditioned because he says: I will love you if you love me", "if you obey, listen me".

Based on the paragraphs that speak of giving / receiving a spirit, I could conclude that God gives the holy spirit to those who seek it, and those whose hearts are pure receive that spirit from God. When GB claims that they make mistakes in word and deed because they are not perfect and because they are not "spirit-inspired," then that is just an excuse. When they claim that they are not "inspired by the spirit of God," that would mean that God does not give his spirit to anyone, not even to them. So, if they, as "God's elected," "anointed," cannot be "inspired," then they are actually sending the message that no one else can be "inspired." And then such a claim has the consequence, meaning, that God and his spirit are not able to be active. God works through his spirit, doesn't he? Well, he created the universe with his spirit ?! He wrote the Bible with his spirit ?! He uttered prophecies with his spirit ?! And today the spirit is unable to act on the few people sitting in Warwick?

Does God lie when he says, "... for God gives the Spirit without limit. - John. 3:34

Is the problem in the spirit of God? Or is it a problem in humans? :))

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

It was clear to God, children didn’t just inherit sin, but became embroiled in that sin out of their own will.

I think how another fact is also clear to God. Noah and their family didn't produced better humankind after Flood. According to JW preaching, today's humankind is on top of list in badness. 

According to idea you explained, best solution would be, what god once expressed in his thinking - 7 So Jehovah said: “I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground,- to destroy all people and to release himself from this agony :)))

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

If we were to be killed unless we publicly renounced our faith in Jehovah God as the Creator, and Jesus Christ as the one through whom the Ransom comes, we should be willing to die for that doctrine.

Yes, that is core thing in a individual faith vs collective faith. Collective faith power is visible from some WT magazine paragraph as in one who speaking about teachings that are unique to JW organization. WT Society said how Salvation is only possible inside Organization and inside respecting whole spectar of Teachings presented by GB.

Here i see contradiction that exists when JW facing with difficult situations. You made good point how issue of Salvation is on other side of spectar, and not in respecting teachings that is questionable or periodicaly changed.

But as it was already said, core faith (not core doctrine/doctrines) is Jesus. Faith in Jesus.

33 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You made good points. I would like to reformulate idea in question you put in focus: 

Are you ready to die for beliefs ?

Nothing about to die for core doctrines or less important doctrines. Because they can be changed. They can be truth, of course, but they can be useless fantasy, too.

Are you ready to die for faith?

:)) sorry for poor quality of video. Language is Croatian with few Italian refren.

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/il-treno-genova-train-genoa.html

You made good points. I would like to reformulate idea in question you put in focus: 

Are you ready to die for beliefs ?

Nothing about to die for core doctrines or less important doctrines. Because they can be changed. They can be truth, of course, but they can be useless fantasy, too.

4 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

no official reason offered

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

1.)    As men of integrity, their oath to Jehovah God demands that they tell the truth, when asked,

I think how two things must be destroyed to dust before.

1) Priest,Clergy,Lawyer,Client - penitent privilege  

2) Spiritual Warfare

.....and then, maybe, we get the answers :)

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Historical concept :-   Acts 10 v 34 & 35. 

³⁴  At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial, ³⁵  but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

After reading this verse (and not for the first time) you used, some sort of new light come on me :)))

In it i see basic for concept how you not need one particular organized religion that will collect people who are acceptable to him. 

Verse said: but in every nation. 

Various people living in various nations. And as individuals they accepting or rejecting social normative of people around them (nation aka religion aka political ideology etc). That is not easy, as we all know. But verse say, who fears him and does what is right. This is very simplified explanation on theme: who is acceptable to god. But it is in level of what Jesus explained too: Love god, love neighbor. Nothing about complicated theology, interpretations, doctrines, instructions, clarifications ......

I like it how this two declarations, from Peter and Jesus, are in harmony :))..... it must be, looks like - "Simplified Edition" for beginners :)))

43 minutes ago, Anna said:

Now the questions I ask is, it makes sense for the congregation, but how is it outside the congregation? This is where I find the difficulty. There are several things to consider. One is; are we Christians only inside the congregation, or are we Christians 24/7? Obviously we are Christians all of the time. So we could argue that whatever applies inside the congregation should also apply outside of it.

Yes, Anna. I found, how it is unreasonable, out of common sense, not to have normal conversation of two human, or at least, as minimum to say, Hallo. Sometimes it would depend on in what relations they were before, of course.  

When you mentioned, Christians 24/7, i suppose how that would include to "love the enemy" as Jesus said. If some JW member want to "love his enemy" in Jesus' context of teaching, i guess how dfd or dis member are not consider to be worst than "the enemy, men from nation" ?! :)) Or is he/she?

If we go so far in conclusions about some bro/sis, perhaps it will be good to remind self how sort of "final judgement" for all of us will be in some future time, i guess, and not now. And process subject in that "judgement" will not be because we belonged or not belonged to particular religion, now, but because of some other issues. 

Below is quote from WT publication what JW believes it is Judgmental Day.

(Judgment Day will be not only a time of instruction from God but also a time for those alive to apply what they learn and enjoy the blessings that result.) - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201001/what-is-judgment-day/.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Recall that I clarified just how JWs know the book exists:

..... is this one more of points on a list of "clarifications" about "The Truth" :))

The greatest gift

https://lyricstranslate.com

Oh God, How I Love You

https://lyricstranslate.com