Srecko Sostar

4 minutes ago, LNN said:

Is that in the Yiddish language? 

Love the music by the way.

According to internet it is on Albanian language (Flower, flower)

 https://lyricstranslate.com/en/lule-lule-flower-flower.html-1

42 minutes ago, AlanF said:

The problem is not translation, but original meaning.

Yes, problem is lexical. And as consequence, of not knowing true meaning, translations are made on idea of people who making translation.

WT Bible is another example how to increase the problem. WT Society made Versions of Bible translation. They haven't  qualified staff who is extremely proficient in Biblical languages. Perhaps few individuals who finished only two grade of Latin and Greek language in High School, or in best case four years in Classical Languages. But their Versions of NWT Bible, for sure, was made  under strong influence of Doctrines and Teachings that are Unique to JW. 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But anyone else takes into account that there is no sizable organization on earth where CSA is not an issue, and no one that is not being sued—and in most cases, it is the leaders who are the abusers, something very rare with JWs, whose leaders are just accused of not reporting.

Do we have any statistic on this: how many leaders inside JW's are abusers, and how many leaders not reporting??

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I do sometimes wish that there was a little more PR pushback from them. At present there is only a “we abhor child sexual abuse.” True enough, but in the face of court actions and vehement accusers, reporters go to where they can get a story.

WT Organization PR decide to tell minimum words, and best words for doing so is to reverse the meaning of the charge. Victims and ex-JW put issue on how elders not reporting CSA cases to police and secular authorities and have internal Judging Committees. This JW elders act in a way that is not proactive for victims but contrary, it helps abusers to stay unknown not only to JW population in particular congregation, but to all other who need to know about issue. By such WT policy, danger for children inside and outside JW community come to be higher.

Bro SL gave public statement, on JW National TV,  “we abhor child sexual abuse”.   In this PR statement he didn't say how WT Society and elders do it (abhor) and handle with CSA cases, but general statement, about general truth. Because whole world, religious and secular doing the same about the same  - "abhor".     

1 hour ago, Anna said:

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

This notion of "quantity of holy spirit" is completely unscriptural and ridiculous on its face.

By saying "how much", I did not mean quantity at a given time. I meant how many times hs would be given over a period of time. So correction: "how often or how many times it would be given"

Perhaps we can include general idea in human and in Bible context, how all have to be, to done something and so on:  "to the right extent, measure, quantity". Salt is good, but to put too much salt into meal will not be good. Patient is good, but too much patient not  necessary mean how things will be solved because we show patient till the day we die .....etc.

As i can recall we can find:

For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit (measure).  - John 3 34  

But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you. - 2 Cor 10 13

And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. - Rev 21 17

 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?” “Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied. 10 “You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.” - 2 King 2

We have here interesting descriptions. It seems how "measuring" and to be inside "measure" have correct logic and positive need, positive consequence. Of course, if lexically we have correct Bible text. 

Perhaps this is not very easy issue to discuss. So, why not go back to Topic. It is more real (actual) and it's easier to handle with the facts, evidences, proofs.....  :)))

9 hours ago, John Paul said:

So, if witnesses use that term, I suspect they are referring to the spiritual Jerusalem, not the watchtower.

Sorry but you are wrong in this thinking. JW members not separating spiritual and literal Organization. Because that is one and the same in their thinking. They consider JHVH asOwner or Master of One Organization in Spiritual and Earthly place, not two. Because JHVH love Unity :))) 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

You are putting too much emphasis on 8 imperfect men,

If i am correct in thinking, this 8 men running all job, governing how all work should be done and giving complete direction to JW organization :)) 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

Does it mean JWs didn’t get enough holy spirit if they made mistakes in some interpretations?  Don’t forget the holy spirit does not work on our terms. God is perfectly in control of holy spirit and knows when and how much to give, it’s not up to us to judge.

On question answer is: No, they didn't get enough spirit. Because JHVH spirit can't make such mistakes because of my perception how JHVH spirit is absolute in this context. If i believe in wrong premises than that is my problem :)))

On second quote:  Agree, spirit doesn't work on our terms. (Perhaps spirit can and doing in "adaptable manner" because spirit have to deal with blood and flesh and bones in us). But on other part of thinking if we accept your good statement, than GB are not entitled to speaking about one and only "Channel of Communication", because spirit not work in GB terms. Spirit can give "communication" to other sort of channels too, because spirit work on own terms not on ours. :))

On third quote: I will just add to your fine words. Spirit knows When and How .... and to Whom.

Waiting for your thoughts :))

16 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

I am creating this thread in response to all the non-sequitur replies all the other threads get. 

I will try to not care if someone responds with a Turkey recipe or True Tom spams us again. 

This is me throwing up my hands. Officially.

I can understand how you like to have order in Topics and expecting this same from all of us who participating with comments. But people are unpredictable. In their behavior and in their reactions.

I guess how in this expectations of your and in own plans about how to run people's thoughts You made scale too high. Because, as you see by yourself, that requires nerves of steel.

You done well to give up of futile idea. :))

Greetings! 

3 minutes ago, Arauna said:

 A meeting of only anointed at congregation level makes it exclusive - excluding the other sheep.

In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity.   wt 1/2016, "We Want to Go With You"

1) "elite club", 2) "private groups for Bible study", 3) "cause division", 4) "against holy spirit"

I am interested to know on what evidences, GB made conclusion about this 4 points?? and how other rank and file members came to same conclusion as GB, how anointed want to separate themselves in such a way and a measure to be considered as promoter of this 4 points?. This doesn't mean how some of them (anointed) are not in such state of mind to think about self as more spiritual than somebody else. But is this general problem that includes ALL anointed? All other "groups" inside WT Society and JW organization can do the same, to act according to 4 points. 

I think how GB need to offer proper, trustful evidences for conclusion and advice, for warning they made. Our comments about this, mostly are based on few premises.

For example: Can we trust GB research and objectivity on this. Did they made any research, and how they collected information's how some anointed made private study. What is problem if they gathered? People doing that all the time outside of congregation. Solely gathering can't be reason for ban they want to implement (not only to anointed, but to all JW members).      

Who gave power to GB to make decision how you or other members have to behave on such issue. To make warning that you are not entitled to have private Bible researches? What is PRIVATE in GB minds? 

I will not going to more words. Just like to make thinking question: What if this "private groups of Bible studies" and gatherings (spiritual hiding) in "caves" aka homes are in fact what this verse speaking about?

Nevertheless, I have reserved seven thousand in Israel— all whose knees have not bowed to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him.” - 1. kings 19

13 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I grow in knowledge of the bible by reading the Insight book

I have them too. And i was excited when was able to get "Aid to Bible understanding" in 1984 in Vienna Betel one evening in September.  

1 hour ago, Anna said:

The Bible does not say the FDS anointed know more, all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, which is already in the Bible,

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Totally agree Anna,  the GB receive just enough holy spirit for their tasks

 The last days are indeed filled with woe, just as the Bible foretold.  In this troubled world, however, there are positive developments among the worshippers of Jehovah.

¹³ “The true knowledge will become abundant,” the Bible book of Daniel foretold. When would that happen? During “the time of the end.” (Daniel 12:4) Especially since 1914, Jehovah has helped those who truly desire to serve him to grow in understanding of the Bible.  

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/are-we-living-in-the-last-days/

About:  Knowledge, Know more, Spiritual food, Understanding of Bible, Holy spirit, you mentioned.

You said well, Anna, how FDS (inside WT Society) are not in position to "know more" if they are out of working range of holy spirit, to understand more about some subjects, if Bible text not explicit say or explain what is what. If it is, as you say, how Bible not give any prove to all of us, that FDS will know more, than what spiritual food they producing? Which is already in the Bible?  Fine. But that would mean less articles that are directly connected to Bible text especially about prophesies and interpretations on many issues and, of course, about illustrations as, who is FDS. Bible not say who is FDS. When and how will come or came. Will they originated from Pennsylvania and then move to Warwick. 

If they, FDS, are uninspired, than they have no possibility to explain nothing from Bible, for outcome how such explanation would be correct. They can handle only basic teachings. To be good, not lie, love your neighbor, to preach Kingdom, not have idols ....and similar. Talking about 1914, King of the North, 6000 history of man is in shady, fog zone and are just interpretations leading nowhere.

Producing millions of articles (from 1879) with problematic explanations and instructions prove just opposite - that they not received enough spirit for their task. They are very good organized, that is for sure - but do you need HS for that or just to improve what was already exist in this worldly word and what working for centuries, especially in Western Democracies and Economics. 

7 minutes ago, Witness said:

Until around a hundred years ago, how do you believe the anointed ones gathered and encouraged one another? Matt 18:20  Through some sort of organization? 

This is an extraordinary argumentation! 

Here we have few different subjects that came to focus. Although some of them are far away from Jack Ryan Topic, i would say how this one, where we involved questions about anointed and certain relationships within all of them that call themselves "anointed" and structural questions what anointed role is inside them and in relation to people who haven't such call. Does "anointed" need some "body" that will and have to represent them all? Does this "body" have  legality and legitimacy from those whom they, as GB claim, represents? Published claims how Spirit, God and Jesus, appointed them (now WT Society's GB) in 1919 have to be questioned and challenged. How and why?

First, WT publications explaining periodically how no one can prove that he/she is anointed. And how some people who claims that call, are people who, in fact, are not appointed.   

Second, all such sort of appointments, supposedly, have to be by Spirit, for purpose to have legality and legitimacy. In fact, less important sort of appointments, for ministerial servants, elders, Circuit Overseers and others inside hierarchical structure of Organization involving human acts, interventions, influence.

Brothers inside congregation giving their voice for recommendations. Then some other who are in position of leading giving their voice and further recommendations ....all to the top of Structure that resides in Warwick. Let me to conclude, how this same "theocratic" steps have to be used in appointing anointed who put themselves on position to be Top Management not only to JW members but also to all other individuals who belong to the "same kind" as they. As in first century Christianity examples:Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.  

But today we have problem with GB, elders and even JW anointed. They claims how they are not inspired. If that is true than they can't receive spirit" from another JW and can't give "spirit" to another JW. With such deficiency of spirit, task of making appointments can't be fulfilled in very core prerequisite for all sorts of spiritual activity that need to be guided not by humans but by Spirit.   

About hands! WHO have been putting hands on Russell, Rutherford, Franz, Knorr, Henschel, Gangas, Jackson, Sydlick, Lett, Morris etc? Has HE been inspired while doing this?  

What does this have to 8 members in Topic? If they haven't legality to be sitting "on Moses chair" and no legitimacy because they not fulfilling their task and obligation, according to position they claimed was made by Jesus and God, another Court will also call them to Trial.

In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity.   wt 1/2016, "We Want to Go With You".

It would be important and interesting to see what are examples that WT Society GB and elders saw as danger for Corporation and as braking Bible Principles. 

We all are aware how people doing this sort of "separation" inside same structure. "Birds of feather flock together". It is visible to many how JW people contribute in various measures to this same. Bethel workers are one "social class", also pioneers understanding each other more than some other level of brotherhood can do that. Brothers who are wealthier or have more education find more friends inside such people and making that sort of "social group". Poor brothers understand each other more, much better than someone who has plenty of money can have that compassion to them. All such gathering can be seen as gathering based on some reasons that is not "Biblical", but it is not so simple or good  to make automatic conclusion or judgement.

If anointed individuals understand each other more better and in special way, it is normal to see them want to spend more time been together. Do you want to spend more of your time with people who understand you and your inner life or you want to be with those people who can't do that??

We all can be seen as "elite" in own eyes, or in eyes of other.

Warning about private groups for study Bible is based on need to control everyone, not just appointed. 

21 minutes ago, Tom Henry said:

Legal entity, no!

Yes or No?! How NO changing the fact that WT had been established according to secular laws and that JW is under same set or laws, established as working cells around the world? First in form of Name for purpose to be somehow different from other Christians and as separation from Russell influence. Later as legal entities that continue working under WT Society direction.   

What 1 century Romans have with JW's known under that name today ? Jews and later Romans persecuted Jesus's Witnesses not Jehovah's Witnesses.  

56 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If someone is doing the deeds and saying the sayings of Jehovah’s Witnesses, then that person is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If someone refuses to do that, how can it be said that he or she is still one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? The “improvement” of the new announcement over the old is that congregation members recall from the Bible just how a person who has served Jehovah and then willfully rejects that life is to be viewed. They think of “treat him as a tax collector and man of the nations,” that Jews had “no dealings” with. They think of “not even eating with such a man,” “never saying a greeting.” They will recall the counsel to “reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene,” (2 Timothy 2:16-17) and it comes to mind just how one deals with gangrene.

Recently, @JW Insider drew my attention to different meaning about wording: Jehovah's Witnesses and Jehovah's  witnesses.  First one is using only for religious movement, religion, specific group of people or legal entity (started in 1931). The second description is about every individual who accept JHVH, worship and obey him or have some role in JHVH plan, purpose.

In that way, i would say how some person, member of JW organization, can be dfd from Organization and as such is not considered anymore as one of Jehovah's Witnesses (the legal entity under WT Society supervision). BUT that not automatically disqualified him as individual who can continue to be Jehovah's witness according to Isaiah or any other Bible verses where is described how acting person who living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings. (specifically here is about doctrinal differences)

To living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings, NOT NECESSARY  mean how person HAVE to be inside particular Legal Entity, in this case, WT Society, CCJW or any other of Watchtower sister' companies !! 

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

the C.C. asked me something along the lines of "What do you think about the decisions of the Governing Body?"

I looked at him in the eyes and replied "I will have to agree with what was stated in the February 2017 Watchtower, that they are neither inspired, or infallible."

Dead silence as if they had been bonked on the head with a wooden mallet.

UP VOTE !

That is why we all need to pass self-defense course and have a lot of practice :))

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said:

Is this word "overjoyed" something as "inspired" ?

17 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

do we know the writer of this paragraph in the writing committee? Just curious

Perhaps some "spirit empowered" individuum ....

 “Why do you ask My name,” said the Angel of the LORD, “since it is beyond comprehension?” - Judges 13

:)))

23 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

How did this get by the proofreaders?

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers,.... 2 Cor 4

Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door. - Genesis 19

:)))

29 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

*** w55 8/1 p. 478 Questions From Readers ***
However, this refusal to pay back insult for insult does not mean Christians are to be pacifists or that they must never resort to self-defense.

 

That is why we can see how JW security guards (ms and elders) was used as peacekeepers and/or bouncers in some videos.

If some hooligans or organized mob go to attack KH and people in it, would fighting back be in harmony to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations?

If some soldiers go to attack your village or town, would fighting back be according to Bible principles and self-defense interpretations? 

Self-defense in WT magazine didn't explain much. Because what is self-defense?  Yelling and waving with hands? If someone want to use self-defense he/she have to know how to do it!  Looking videos on that subject, going to courses and lot of practice, than you can do it properly to defend self or other who need help. Otherwise ....do not go in conflict with one who is prepared for conflict.

50 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The focus on only supporting future wars to be led by Christ Jesus directly, has promoted the idea that we really are expected to be pacifists

@Arauna I think how you didn't read carefully what was written. JW Insider didn't said how Jesus promoted idea, BUT HOW FOCUS on only supporting future wars to be led by Christ Jesus directly, has promoted the idea. WHO making this sort of FOCUS? WT publications making focus on preaching service and to stay still (be neutral) in human wars.

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

problem of having 12 times more gravity

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/whats-the-maximum-gravity-we-could-survive

JW organization consider self to be Christians. I would suggest, if you don't mind, to reconsider what is or should be basic in Jesus'teachings. I guess how main foundation of Christianity and therefore for JW's, can be found in two famous verses as Jesus' respond or answer on question: Which is greatest command? 

Love should be main teaching, main doctrine of religion that want prove self as to be "only true". Why? Because "knowledge" as product of Bible interpretations that makes distinctions between various religions, and constant tries to prove how member of another church is wrong about some issue, will not help no one.

Religious "knowledge" brings people to problems. "True knowledge" or "Error knowledge" or "Brighter knowledge" or "Clarified knowledge" and so on .... But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. - 1 Cor 8

³⁴ “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. ³⁵ By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” - John 13

All our talking and litanies and outwitting (outsmarting) is vain work. What will count is how we treat each other, and not how smart we can be to win in discussion.  :)))

One of main positive way how to love people around you is not going to war for reasons because of many wars are started, for sure, but it is also  crucial to defend people who are under attack. How to accomplish these two?

9 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The simple reason you're trying hard to evade is that David was a man of war with blood in his hands that was not worthy to build God's temple.

I have nothing to "evade" about it. Bible clearly named, count this specific matter, that David was soldier and killed many people, and how this is reason why God didn't want him to build Temple. 

I just want to put in focus, how that factor (killing many people) must not be obstacle for your good relation to God and His blessings on such person. By the way, from who came commands and encouraging to be in so many combats and killing people? From his God. Many battles had been for God and in the name of God. Of course, some personal interest sometimes came in David head and he done what he wish to do (Uriah for example)

On other hand some angels or even God's Son were and will participate in massive bloodshed (Noah Flood,  Assyrian soldiers,  Armageddon, post 1000 year Kingdom Day of last Test), but that will not disqualified Him to be Priest and King and many more, to build Spiritual Temple in greater scale than it is now.

I really don't see why we have to be tied with some verse with few words, while entire Bible giving few other perspectives on same issue. 

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't think any current elder would be on a site like this and admit their specific issues with any doctrines.

After i had been prepare my Letter of disassociation (2015), one elder from another congregation (long time acquaintance, and he is doctor if that have to mean something to people who will read this) wanted to read it and to see me. After he had been read my Letter, he had nothing special to say, add, in a sense of, to "call me back to organization or to JHVH) But he told me how he also visiting few web sites where ex-JW members discussing, as we doing here. But, contrary to your experience and need JW Insider, he said how he just reading, and not participating in any other way. Of course, that was something i was not expected to hear (his going to "apostate web).  :))  

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Did God allow David to build His temple? hmm!

If i remembered conversation between them, David already made plans, ordered place for Temple and collecting "money" for project and continue with that despite changed circumstances. As i see this, David made act of obeying JHVH words how Solomon is better choice to be builder of Temple.

We can only guess what would happened if David decide to build Temple despite God's will. JHVH had various methods of practice when dealing with human disobeying. Sometimes He killed them all, sometimes leave them to do what ever they want. :))