Srecko Sostar

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

 A very low percentage of witnesses committed child molestation - something which is very hard to prove. 

If i may join.

We need some research about how many JW committed CM. But WT Society as Conglomerate who run Company, Corporation and Religion in the same time from one Central place in US are not willing to publish such information to no one - neither to Courts nor to Members. Some sort of exception is what was happen in Australia. But such database is only for Australia Branch Office. Even with such reduced insight, we saw how 1006 JW members and those who has been very closely related to JW congregations, committed  crime. Many of them was MS and elders. Is that percentage small or big, we can discuss. But because of nature of crime and because of nature of JW church who has the highest moral standards, as they claim for themselves, any number is too high and embarrassing.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

Few people know that even university professionals did not know for a very long time what to do about this problem.

 Very very short respond: If WT Society is run by Spirit, than Spirit would know how to handle this problem. 

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

 Stop speaking against one another, brothers. Whoever speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks against law and judges law. Now if you judge law, you are not a doer of law but a judge. "

When we are in negative mode because talking often about bad things and problems, that can be a burden for both, ourselves and those who listen to us. Sometimes it is hard to "escape" this, because many of us had been very long in JW organization.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

JWs kept databases to inform other congregations of problems - so suspected perpetrators could not move from congregation to congregation.  They were the only organization to do this-  and they are the ones who are denegraded for this and received media focus...... . Other organizations working with children did NOTHING. 

If it is what you say, than JW members would know about all this when open JW TV. But there is no news, documents on JW Broadcast about what going on. 

Also, WT Australia not joined National Redress Scheme. What can be reason for that? Perhaps, because WT don't want to admit any responsibility about CM. They have no intend to join. And such stand is unacceptable.  

The Australian Government is encouraging all institutions responsible for child sexual abuse, including those listed below, to join the Scheme without delay. - https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/institutions/institutions-have-not-yet-joined

 If GB run all moves of secular and spiritual nature from one Central place, and request of all people inside church to obey every decision, than they are responsible. And that is why we have GB members listed as Defendants in newest Court case.     

17 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Thank you, but did you actually read ALL of that ? 

Yes. 

@John H Slaughter

Did you down vote me as a person ..... or you down vote Court Document ? :)))))

What ever of this two options stay behind your reason, than you have a problem.

Do you offer third option? :))

Perhaps these would help. It is good to read for your own first.  

517900_2019_John_Michael_Ewing_v_John_Michael_Ewing_SUMMONS___COMPLAINT_1.pdf

32 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Beatle's records backwards

I have heard (or read about it in some WT article, not sure)  that too in first part of 1980'...... and repeated about this "danger stuff" to some young JW's in Czechoslovakia  in 1985.  :)))

@JW Insider you shared fine thoughts and showed your awareness and understanding of objections and questions other people accented and saw as serious items that need to be put on table for discussion and challenged. That is one of reason i like to read your comments which are respectful to other people, even when you are in a disagreement with them, about subject.    

55 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I hope you can see that, even with JWs out of the picture, you could probably accept this entire situation as a possible, and even normal, Christian congregation.

What you described, can be also applicable for many human activities. For example, people who have common interest in producing food and living in some rural area, joined together. Looking for ways how support each other and care about each other and shield each other from outside bad influence, greedy merchants, natural disasters and so on. Well, in technical way, things can be looked as same. People, in that small community, will be facing inside problems and making regulations, rules and laws. 

How far will they go? To proclaim such rules as "God given"? Would they stick to rules at any cost or would be, as TTH said, "adaptive to modern technology". Or, not only to technology :))) 

Of course, we always have fear and potentially difficult situation in both directions - to stick with old things, as well to accept new and unknown. Burden is heavier, because in all this we (they) want to PUSH God as reason, motive and result.

Not only about mentally ill (pathogenic) issues, but about all other burdens that making people mentally, psychically burdened.

I think how elders in congregations are very happy with this solution:  if people who have various kind of problems, how they are on medications (drugs). If they swallow enough tablets they sit still, quietly in chairs during program. 

Elders prefer that people drink pills rather than alcohol when dealing with their problems. Because, alcohol have strong smell. Also, taking Pills is almost invisible for others and "socially more acceptable". :)) 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

7 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Would dying by refusing a blood transfusion be suicide?

 

3 hours ago, Anna said:

Would dying by going to war for your country be suicide?

That is an excellent counter-question for the troublemaker and his two cheerleaders.

From the standpoint of the soldier’s countrymen, no—it is not suicide. However, from the standpoint of the other 99% of the world’s population, it may not be suicide, but it is stark raving crazy misguided, putting trust in a delusion of self-interested superiority, and his death is an absolute waste, rewarded only with a monument from his fellow delusionites. 

What reward does God have in store for those who keep his laws even under duress?

Think, how both questions have good position. Maybe we can be in better position about answer, if we take in consideration what would be chance to survive and continue to live (in this life of course :))) ) in each of this situations. 

On other side, by refusing blood you not participate in defending other people who had been attacked by evil force.

Reason or reasons for refusing blood, standing in theological explanation of how should be understood verse in Bible, and how are your personal feelings about God's will.

By this action (refusing blood) you directly help or harm yourself, and indirectly harm own family. Those people who going to war because they want to help people, are ready to put  themselves  in danger situation for (theoretically) only one reason - to help known and unknown people on cost of own life.

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The first follows from a clear Bible law to “abstain from blood,” one of the few carryovers from the Mosaic law.

The second is an adaption to modern technology and reflects an unwillingness to dictate people’s consciences. Some will say that even the tiniest fraction is blood. Others will say, “it’s not a cake until you mix the ingredients.”

Hi Tom. 

I agree how we need to be "adapted". But that sounds also as in science books that explaining "evolution theory". Species were "adaptable" and .... survived. :)))

Do you suggest and say how God's inspired words need GB and their human uninspired  intervention according to modern Technological progress?  And not only to technology, because why to stop on only such adaptations. Why you not going further and say, how God's inspired words need GB and their human uninspired  intervention according to modern progress in Culture and Thoughts? 

You said how GB is unwilling to dictate people's conscience? What is base for your perception? GB made religious teachings and sorted them in 2 lines. They decide how things in one line are mandatory and in second are free choice. By such act they had already, prior to any of your attempt to make decision, made decision in your name and cancelled/ annulled  activity and pursuit of your conscience. If we have legal regulation, than we have no need for conscience. Conscience was designed for other purpose, not to be under Power of Law. 

What shall we going to mix? :))

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Republic of Georgia

I love to listen some folk საქართველო songs. Very long ago i heard one on radio before going to work in early morning, and i can't find it never again. Title was, if i remembered well, Don't rustle, privet. (Ne šumi kalino - in Croatian) 

Perhaps you know it, Arauna ?

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Why then do they not have a Governing Body with members from many countries ? 

Perhaps that sound too democratic :))) Non-Aligned Movement

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Just to mention one thought: churches teach the immortality of the soul - so even if they profess that they believe in the sacrifice of Jesus ..... they do not teach that Jesus "really" died.

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

These CORE teachings of truth are not adjusted. Other things regarding prophecy, better understanding of illustrations etc time related teachings, have been adjusted..... but the core teachings - which make us totally different to all other religions  - is core teachings of truth from the bible.

In one hand this way of reasoning is valid. But, of course i need to notice this too. We can argue or make consensus about "core" teachings and about those that are "less" important teachings. If such categorization even exist!!! 

For example, blood transfusion.

1) CORE teaching is: we do not take transfusion of whole blood.

2) MINOR teaching is: we can take blood fractions.

What makes this two teachings to be in 2 categories? The 1) is command, mandatory and disobey such teaching brings you dfd and JHVH judgment. The 2) is not command, but your personal choice and no one will ask you to give report on your decision. 

Also, i would like to incorporate in this conversation and reasoning another element. But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned. ...... But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the Law to become void. - Luke 16 two versions

In this Jesus' words i see just opposite of common custom when WT Society and elders interpret, and you repeat it here, how some teachings are core and some are not. Why? Another reasoning we also find in Bible. If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. - Luke 16 With this looking on subject about teachings, that some  people consider to be somehow small or smallest in  significance and value, we see how Jesus' perspective is not on same level that people have, about what is big and important and what is small and unimportant.

With this what i wrote, I can't agree with explanation you offered, how some WT Society teachings are more important than others. Because, Jesus words showed me different way on how to look on details.

Also, as conclusion, few JW doctrines that are supposedly the truth, can't save you from judgement about others doctrines that are supposedly lie.  :))    But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. - Mat 12

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

They do not vote

As i am aware , voting as practice is not strange thing to WT Society. History tells us how voting is common way of bringing decisions and resolving problems. Until today. Elders voting on their meetings. Congregants also voting while making resolutions. So, this is not any different from what world doing. Subjects are different. But many things about "worldly" things are not in opposition to Bible. If, people who leaving in one street or area have to do something for common interest, for example, to build new water system or rebuild old one, and it is needed to collect "information" of how many people are ready to contribute with money, or who are ready to and will sign contract (to vote) for that purpose, you need to use this sort of democratic process - to vote for or against something.

I would say how JW's are not against voting inside WT Society, but are against voting in secular life. Many things exists when decision is needed,have nothing with "politics"(state or political party things), but on other hand all in our life is politic anyway. 

Definition of politic

1: POLITICAL

2: characterized by shrewdness in managing, contriving, or dealing

3: sagacious in promoting a policy

4: shrewdly tactful

In that sense, JW as people who know what is good and how to accomplish this same, are in position to mandatory doing good because they know doing good. If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. - James 4. JW not need to go voting for new senator, or president, but will doing good to not be so "indifferent", as they are,  in many other secular things in everyday life.

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

We are citizens of a future government and learning and adhering to the laws of this future government.

Yes, you are entitled to have such feelings. BUT Until That Time Comes, you have to care about your garbage, ecology, animals, electricity, new urbanistic planes in your place of living, safety or traffic issues in the street, etc. General standpoint of JW's about this is exactly what you called as ...  indifference. 

We are actively supporting only a future government of God .... and with this sentence you presenting what i try to explain. JW's are not active in supporting ... animal shelters or shelters for beaten woman and sexual abused children, homeless ...and so on.   

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Well, just shows you can't make people do what you want them to do, people will always do what THEY want to do in the end.

Yes, people always doing what they want to do..... and sometimes they WANT to do things what THEY (other people) told them to do. 

21 hours ago, Arauna said:

Non- voting is the reason governments will hate us as is our stance to refuse to go to war. 

In general, many people don't go to vote. I am not sure but in many countries less than 50% of population that have right to vote doing that. So, all of them will be target for "hate" :)) Perhaps basement would be good place for hide from haters. :))

There is about 22 countries where voting is mandatory.

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

Yep, so you acknowledge they do not really know the bible. 

Look Arauna, for example, we can talk about general population of people who belong to Catholic church, "just for the sake of argument" as can be heard on JW TV :)))))).  People as JW can make argumentation how general population of JW know Bible very well, and are able to defend their standpoint much better or absolutely better than some Catholic member. And how in some debate between JW and Catholic, better result would be on JW side.

But from whom JW member received such "knowledge"? From FDS aka GB who lives on WT Society account aka members donation money.

But GB said, and more important showed, how they made many errors in doctrines, and doing that same things today, too. Do JW members acknowledge this same thing - how they (you as group) do not really know the Bible. More than 200 clarification items proving the same, how GB do not know the Bible. Term "clarification" (in WT Society) is replacement, surrogate wording for ignorance.

Well, why would I, or you, be occupied with idea how only Me or You are in position of having best Bible knowledge  in comparison to some other religious group who also think how they know the Bible (better than others)??

On 11/13/2019 at 12:05 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Elders are supposed to be up to date with all the latest thoughts coming forth from the top HQ, the GB.

:))) yes, supposed. Because "life saving information" have to come from GB onto worldwide elders and from them to flock. That is legal, legitimate and  official way how  "channel" of communication working and is blessed by god. :))))

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Then we could expect John to write of it in 2 Revelation

Yes, expectations, that could be problem sometimes. :))

On 11/12/2019 at 4:24 PM, Witness said:

I think Srecko was referring to a higher school to learn a trade.

Printing error. High school, Secondary school (not higher school for children-people above age 18). Thanks ! 

3 hours ago, Witness said:

"On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus was standing in the temple courtyard. He said loudly, “Whoever is thirsty must come to me to drink. ³⁸ As Scripture says, ‘Streams of living water will flow from deep within the person who believes in me.’” ³⁹ Jesus said this about the Spirit, whom his believers would receive.”  John 7:37-39a 

Water as symbol of God's Spirit.

By this, what Jesus told, this "inspirational water" has The Source in Jesus (and God). Well, it would be normal, and not mental issue, if somebody  come with claim how he/she is "inspired". :)) 

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would never denigrate human rights. I like those things. Life is easier when they are respected. But I prefer the term Golden Rule. It preserves all that is noble about human rights while discarding all that is pretentious. 

Finnaly, i can give you one Up-Vote :)))

On 11/12/2019 at 3:00 PM, Arauna said:

What a blatant lie.

You talking about WT Society and "higher education" ? Because i spoke about "higher education" as something that GB see as not good for members. GB consider such plase as "brood" of fornication and demonic influence. But people where ever they  go will be faced with bad things ….even in JW congregations.

“The educational system varies from country to country. In the United States, for example, public schools offer 12 years of basic education. Thereafter, students may choose to attend university or college for four or more years, leading to a bachelor’s degree or to postgraduate studies for careers in medicine, law, engineering, and so forth. Such university education is what is meant when the term “higher education” is used in this article. On the other hand, there are technical and vocational schools, offering short-term courses that result in a certificate or diploma in some trade or service.” Watchtower 2005 Oct 1 p.27

The educational system in many countries teaches students not only practical skills but also human philosophy. Students are encouraged to question the existence of God and to disregard the Bible. …. Some Christians who have pursued university education have had their minds molded by human thinking rather than by God’s thinking. .... A sister who has been in full-time service for over 15 years says: “As a baptized Witness, I had read and heard about the dangers of pursuing university education ............ What effect did higher education have on this sister’s thinking? She answers: “I am ashamed to admit that the education I pursued taught me to be critical of others, especially my brothers and sisters, to expect too much of them, and to isolate myself from them -   Watchtower 2019 Jun pp.6-7

….and so forth

On 11/12/2019 at 2:32 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

It is a meaningful verse to me. It shows the purpose of the heavenly hope.

What if God make change of His (or WT) perspective on this, and decide about them to stay on Earth and fulfill same task ? :)) 

Last week i experienced, in interval of few minutes, how two elders from another congregation respond on my look at them, accros the street, and giving greting with smile. Younger, son of older brother, returned with a smile. Few minutes later, two sisters standing with box and looked at woman with dog. I was walking beside them, again with happy face with looking on sister from my ex congregation, She returned with a smile on her face. …..Or maybe that was because of playing with dog :)))) 

19 hours ago, Arauna said:

So you acknowledge that the majority of Christians take the emblems without knowing

I acknowledge how i don't know what they know and think.

But what i know in general, is that Christendom talking about going to Paradise after death and having wonderful life there, i didn't hear they expected to be Kings and Priests  :)))

1 hour ago, Tom Henry said:

I wouldn’t expect a witness to argue fundamental human rights, but the rights of our heavenly father.

Imagine yourself as Lawyer who defending innocent person. But what if you are so clumsy and unprepared and from time to time looking in a bottle. How this can help your client - God? 

I think how God can defend self much better than human will and would do it for Him. An at last, according to Bible that work (defending Fathers rights) Jesus already finished very successfully.