Srecko Sostar

2 hours ago, Allen_Smith said:

Bible interpretation

I reffered  on interpretation.

2 hours ago, Allen_Smith said:

Who is more qualified to interpret

How you explaining word "qualified" in this matter (what is content, qualification that person should have to be called "qualified")? What should be look like "the qualifications" in your opinion? Name them as list or something like that.

2 hours ago, Allen_Smith said:

A scholar or a servant of God.

When you said "servant of God", who is/are servant/s, in your understanding, in this issue? Who you call as such one, who may be "servant of God"? Are there any distinction/levels inside people/group of those who called themselves "servant of God"?

When you tell me more about this, perhaps i will be more able to answer what you ask me. 

...........But i will tell you in this way, for simplest, faster conversation. Interpretations on Bible verses is best to live to Him, because He is The Most Qualified to explain verses (word "interpret" is going to sphere of calculations and speculations. This word (interpret) for me, is reflection of human try, attempt to go into space of unknown, of  something that is almost not possible to understand .... without help.

Well, "interpretations" is just variations of many choice and at the end perhaps not one not have true meaning. It is just perception of reader or listener. Author is only one who knows what he meant when he wrote or told something. Author is that person who can explain true meaning. All other don't know true meaning and they can do exactly this .... "to interpret".    

Even if somebody is self claimed servant or as servant appointed by God (in sense of true appointing), we can't be sure in source of authorization of such individual. Or, to be said in this way. If you are an individual who have real appointment by God as his "servant", only in that case you would be able to detect important part of issue: Is it another individual who claim how he is also "servant of God", true or false "servant". All other is speculation and faith or blind faith.

4 minutes ago, Allen_Smith said:

When someone misrepresents past Watchtower literature as though they fully understood it, I will make that distinction. Always have, always will.

Hi Allen. 

Well, we have two sort of Interpretations here.

First is interpretations on Bible verses ...... and next is interpretations on WT verses. 

Also we have dilemma (you don't have that dilemma :))))).

1) Who is authorized to interpret Bible verses?

2) Who is authorized to interpret WT literature?

:))) 

On 10/14/2019 at 6:55 AM, Arauna said:

the old Belgian and Dutch leaders

youth speaking :))))

28 minutes ago, Arauna said:

1 Sam 15:  "for rebelliousness is the same as the sin of divination, and pushing ahead presumptuously the same as using magical power and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of Jehovah, he has rejected you from being king.”

By giving wrong interpretations and by REDIRECTING the word of JHVH, what do you think Arauna, is that also rebellion and sort of using "magical power"? GB said that they are chosen to interpret what JHVH and Jesus meant by this or that verse written in Bible. Obviously, they make impression on other ordinary people, so called Am-Harets, how "magical power" is in their hands and that such "power" comes from God.  

38 minutes ago, Arauna said:

This indicates that self regulation is important.

Do you by this saying: GB have self regulation, and we all other need to have self censure?

Old leaders who run political or religious organization need to step down from their established position and give some space to younger and their ideas :)))) 

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

True,  but I do not go beyond what is written in the bible.  NEVER!  If we are to meditate on things in the bible, we definitely will come up with insights that are not broadly accepted but this does not mean it is wrong to speculate.  .... or wrong to see a new insight.  Even Angel's wish to peer into these things.  

I see what is in the bible and what is in the world and make a connection.   I see what is in the bible about scientific subjects and  make a connection with what I know or have read.... it has enriched my thinking and love for the truth.

I have prayed about this..... that jehovah chastize me if I am moving in a wrong way...... I am ready to be corrected. ...... running ahead can be like spiritism.... so it is something to be careful of...... show caution..... on the other hand I do think things are moving in certain directions in the world and I think think things are moving fast. 

I do not "bend" scriptures as I have seen some do here. 

 

I definitely agree that you said interesting thoughts. Even more. You going further, into some future with "insight". That is visible in idea you mentioned, how "mediate" about something about what is not "broadly accepted" and how it "is not wrong to speculate" with outcome how that process in us resulted with "new insight".

How that is different with what some other people doing? What if JHVH support your "speculation and private new insight", but you still thinking, how He, because of your prayer, thinks that you are on right path and have no need to correct you?

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the site has nothing to do with the congregation and does not attract any Witness that is typical.

Does this mean how "typical Witness" is in better position than JW's who participate here as "untypical"? :))

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Every time I hear any counsel against "running ahead", I think ... running ahead of what ... or who?

I don't know WHO and WHEN had INVENTED this Phrase, but imagine this scene: Jesus is in corner of synagogue,  after he gave his speech introducing "speculation" and "new light". One priest come to him and in fatherly figure mode with soft and calm voice tell him: "Dear Jesus, my brother, my son, don't running ahead. Wait for God and He will change all what is not good. Our GB will be enlighten by His word and make all  changes that is needed, but you must wait."

19 hours ago, Witness said:

Yes Tom, I have more power to mislead a JW than 8 men put together.  Incredible, isn’t it? 

:)))) this one is good !

9 hours ago, Allen_Smith said:

What fine fruits can you bear with hate in your heart?

I don't see @Witness showing hate to anybody or to JW's.    

9 hours ago, Allen_Smith said:

I see you still try to impress everyone by your long post.

I have short posts and still not impressed none of you :))))))))) 

And of course, zealous for something what person doing or talking about can be viewed from some people as strong opposition (hate) to something what somebody take as sacred in own eyes.

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am listening to those who come from China... and Russia (Russians come to assemblies in Georgia), Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan etc..... people with feet on the ground....

This people .... with feet on the ground ..... are they JW members or belong to some other "ideology"?

After i have read your respond and @TrueTomHarley respond about my comment, and how you two agree with me on "control issue", I have to ask you: Does your feet on the ground?

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

to want control other humans is morally wrong.....When a human wants to control anything about another human - he is showing satanic qualities....In future in paradise, all people will willingly subject themselves to Jehovah and his standards in free will.  They will never try to tell another person  what to do because all will be totally free and equal under God.. ...Total freedom and equality under God - this is the goal.... In future in paradise, all people will willingly subject themselves to Jehovah and his standards in free will.  They will never try to tell another person  what to do because all will be totally free and equal under God.

 How is possible that you don't see how you willingly subject yourself under men control, all that under idea how that is God's will? You condemn "control" as morally wrong and as satanic qualities but in the same time you are ready to say how "JW opposers" are wrong and not worth to listen?! One of main reason why "JW opposers" are opposing human influence and power inside WT Society is exactly what you expect from Future under Kingdom. To have  Total freedom and equality under God - this is the goal. 

Why do you want/wish total freedom and equality? Because you haven't it now under WT Society governing. Spiritual Paradise inside WT Society Organization about what JW members are proud about, according to what you have said, is not satisfied your expectations and need. 

Main issue is not about how this "world" and US, China and others suppressing our freedom, but problem is deeper. It is inside Organization/Religion you put your hope and trust and they disappointed you all, and you, in fact unconsciously, putting accent on that issue while speaking about outside world, external general problem between people and nations. 

In fact, absolutely same problem you have inside JW Organization. When will you come to be aware of it?  

1 hour ago, divergenceKO said:

Insulting actual witnesses and not opposers is not the way to go if you are a genuine witness.

Do you want to stay on this statement ?? Maybe my English is weak but it seems to me that you said how, insulting opposers is something what genuine witness is good to do.

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

China wants to control all rare earth minerals for batteries and cell phones etc.

Not for defending China, but have to ask: Is that a crime? that China wants to control this or that??

All want to do that, to be in control of many things, over people, land, earth minerals etc. What history told us? That governments of all kind, past and present, wanted to be in control of own and other nations. World Power Nations doing that all the time. Why to be surprised, or be disappointed if China wants what other World Powers wants too?

If i understand  correctly.

Some countries (western) giving you freedom of speech in a such measure to even criticize own government, persons who run the show on many fields (political, economic, religious, social) and situation in country. But in the same time State (administration and private persons) have mechanism "to silent you" in many ways to such measure that in some situations you would like more "to be dead" than in their hands.    

Some countries (not western democracies) suppress  freedom of speech on many issues and are ready to punish almost all or most critics. 

Well, what is better? To speak what you want, but if you go to far in critics, no one would give you guarantee that you will escape "punishment" in democratically way.  Or to be aware of fact that if you go to make verbal crime against particular establishment you will go to prison or loose your head.

But, I am curious to understand; What US, China and other things have to do with those who oppose and critically making opinion or statements about/against WT Society? :)))  

Please, people, give more comments. I don't want to have "opposers" leading position in Top Posters :))

18 minutes ago, Arauna said:

but I put my faith in the prophecies of the bible.

If you allow me to say this way: Do not put your faith in interpretations of prophecies. 

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

China has much lower incarceration rates than the United States, not just per capita, but in actual numbers, despite the fact that China's population is so much higher.

While the United States has 707 incarcerated people per 100,000 citizens, for example, China has 124 to 172 per 100,000 people and Iran 284 per 100,000. ......."No other country in the world imprisons its citizens as we do in the United States," Haney says. - October 2014, Vol 45, No. 9 Print version: page 56

source: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/10/incarceration

Perhaps Arauna has reminiscence on Cultural Revolution in China under Mao, from 1966 period. 

7 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

Pg. 205, July 1 1943, Watchtower

This instruction was in time period when they have been "inspired". Later, things are changed but instructions from "above" continued to come down somehow. :))))  

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is no substitute for victory!

In simple words you said very strong and deep thought.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

OCD untruths - not worth answering.

Thanks God we have expert like you on OCD, NPD ..... and all other "health deviations". You are able, with only read our comments and see our pictures, to make medical diagnosis on distance. Some spiritual medium also want to make people believe they can do similar things :)) Of course you are not spiritual medium, do not misunderstand my illustration. :))

5 hours ago, Foreigner said:

I will refer you to TTH and JWinsider on why the fonts end up the way they do. It’s their code on this forum. It’s their attempt to hack certain people

hack verb (CUT)

[ I or T, + adv/prep ]

to cut into pieces in a rough and violent way, often without aiming exactly  

- https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hack

@TrueTomHarley and @JW Insider is this what you doing with "certain people" here? :))

19 hours ago, Foreigner said:

The Watchtower depiction of Jesus shows him as the Son of God, the Son of Man, and a Great Teacher.

Well, how would look like WT artistic picture about this: who and how clean His buttock after He had big toilet need as baby and in more few years in His childhood? And after, He has doing that by himself.

Do we need those pictures too?

19 hours ago, Foreigner said:

I will say, you are stretching the boundary of scripture in all your comments.

Amazing! With this you tell us how scripture /verses/ are in "boundaries" because interpretations made by human aka WT Society making spiritual boundaries inside all is explainable and in harmony with "every New Light" that coming from WT Society Spiritual Well. 

Spirit that is behind scripture/verses, is not tied with WT Society "boundaries".   

20 hours ago, Foreigner said:

Hmmm. No spiritual insight by you and your kind.

You can show depiction of Jesus all you want. It doesn’t prevent the fact that you are wrong just like your former religion was wrong, just like your new religion is wrong.

What is very significant is size of letters in this quote. I suggest, if i may, that letters in by you and your kind.   need to be even smaller, smaller and smaller and to be finally invisible. Speaking about "your kind" telling also to what kind you belong! :)))

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

I know of high society schools and organizations where the shame is very serious and one can forget to ever associate with other members again.

Does this sort of behavior, that other society groups shows in their environment, is also Bible based and approved by God, no matter  of fact that they are not JW's?  Can we conclude how they also doing God's will, no matter of their spiritual position before that same God and because they belong, or not belong, to some religion, but not to JW religion? 

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

You are either in denial, very naive, or just desperate at winning a point. Get realistic.  In your small world only JWs are "bad" because they dare to have standards you do not like.

If i would judge myself, i would agree with picture how i am very naive :)) But we are not speaking about me or you. We making observation on JW religion, their history and present time. My world is "small" :)) and i will not return back any idea about your "world", because that is not of my concern. I want to speak about "Ideas", not about people and their's "small or big worlds". 

We can talk about "JW standards"and "WT Society standards".

 I hope you will accept this humble direction about/for our future conversation. :))

18 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

I hope you can understand the word newbie. While I’m new to this forum, it doesn’t mean I’m new to the Org.

I am not talking about you Sir.

18 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

Do you offer the name of your church here?

I am not member of any church. 

18 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

The other would be, if someone had an experience that was inspirational to their life, it doesn’t matter if it was 50-60 years old, people will remember.

Evidence shows that our memory isn’t as consistent as we’d like to believe. What’s worse, we’re often guilty of changing the facts and adding false details to our memories without even realising. - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/memories-unreliable-science-brain-false-memory-remembering-a8687296.html

7 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

The inspirational story is told by former members that actually witnessed and participated on that event.

It is proved by experience and science that memory about past events drops by time. More time gap, more holes in memory and wrong, error testimony about details of event.  Well, this few brothers who are in fact "apostates" of their Small Church, speaking about their experience that was happened before 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 years? No. They are talking about event that took place more than 44 years ago. 

Only thing that can be accepted as true report is, that they were been members of some church and then became JW members. :)) Other details are in the air. Drill is today as before for newbie, read JW publication, have BS, go to meetings, go to preaching and go to baptism. Ex members of Small Church didn't tell us what was the name of that Small Church, it is unknown, even in their testimony in video, no single "witness" gave any data to what Small  Church they belong before came to be JW !!! Why?

-small church

-1000 small church members want to have BS with JW's

-half of small church members (1000 men)

-having BS in KH (only men , all in suits and with ties, of small church without women and children. This sound  like some Bible report that never mentioned number of whole people but only grown male number aka people who can carry a sword :))) 

-what sort of people, in some small church, will abandon their church in one week  and want to left their faith to go to another church?? 

-why to speak about 1970's preaching experience when (and dig up again 1975 Armageddon) when nowadays Society building more KH and bringing more people in silent service with Cart witnessing than ever :))