12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Since Witnesses do not seek to evade taxes, they pay into social & police services to a greater proportion than most groups. Since they put into practice Bible principles that improve lives, they draw upon those services to a much lesser degree. They are honest. They don’t resort to violence, either, in contrast to the majority who will when the cause is deemed right. 

It should be taken as more evidence that what Witnesses have is the truth.

Perhaps it would be more "discreet" to not merge automatically this two elements you talking about: moral standards and by law obligated things to do, on one side, with theological subject/term "Truth" or  with spiritual aspects in people's life, on other side.

How to explain this? Children in kindergarten (of any kind i assume, religious, atheistic) are not thought, by their guardians ladies, to still, to lie, to curse, etc. other children and adult people. They received lessons  to be nice, peaceful, honest, sincere, to share things, etc. By this, they shows qualities as every very moral atheist or very moral religious individual.

To what "truth" this kindergarten group belongs?! :)) Or any other religious and non religious group in the world that reflects this moral and not only moral but spiritual qualities in the same time?! Because good moral behavior is based on good spiritual foundations. In this aspect, "spiritual" not necessary including how individual must believe in God. Because God's love and all moral and spiritual qualities is genetically incorporated in individual because of miracle act when God created people.

That is why atheist people must not "belong to" particular ideology, false or true, to be bad or good. That is why religious people, must not "belong to" particular religion, false or true, to be bad or good.

That is why JW members with their good behavior, not proving automatically how because of their belonging to particular Organization their religion is true. They not proving issue - how specific theology and doctrines is truth itself. 

It would be good to separate things that are not the same. You don't need to be religious to be moral and obey law in the same time. 

3 hours ago, John Houston said:

Jehovah abhors a vacuum.

We have nothing to say about vacuums. Vacuums are nothing. Vacuums are a lack of anything. Vacuums are cold, empty spaces that make up just about all of the space in the universe. Think about it. Imagine how far the Earth is from the Sun. Millions of miles separate the two relatively small objects. Everything between the Earth and Sun is a vacuum. Don't get us wrong, there is stuff there, just stuff that is hard to quantify or detect. Light passes through the vacuum of space. You've got radio waves, gamma rays, X-ray, IR, UV, visible, etc. There is even stuff called dark matter and dark energy. They are all there. But if you could hold your hand out, there would be nothing. 

source: http://www.cosmos4kids.com/files/universe_vacuum.html

If You believe in God's creation of Universe than you will accept "vacuum" as His creation too :)) He would not "abhor" something that he created. 

Perhaps "vacuum" you talking about is something bad. But that sort of "vacuum" is Product of WT Society.   

2 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

This person is the most elicit false prophet here. Preaching Jesus words of love is not preached by this person. Instead, this person preaches, division and hate.

I think your experience, impression about @Witness is exaggerated, to be mildly said. :))

9 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

Does that mean Jesus rejected the temple?

Did Jesus regularly visiting Temple and Synagogues, led by Jew Priesthood, and humbly obey lessons given by Priesthood?  

If He didn't, than we can rightly speaking about that how He rejected Temple and all what Temple representing to Jew people. He expected from people to follow Him, and not Temple and Priesthood in Temple. By that He also showed how He rejecting Temple.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This objection is all too silly, in my view.

It mustn't be if you change the angle of view :)) But that is not on me to help you. All i can do is to make you think with the words ... even silly one. 

12 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

I hope you understand the difference when holding a business in the temple

Sorry, but when somebody doing buys and sells (real estates, shares and holdings ...etc) than that it is a business.  

12 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

luxury items

12 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

housed in the field?

No one of us, and no one of JW member, and no one of GB member are not want to live as Jesus was. Jesus himself gave this advice, instruction: -  Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go,  sell your  possessions  and  give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”  -Mat 19

Well, here He said, sell, give to the poor. Does WT Society poor? Do GB members poor? If they are not, than why members give donations to Organization, Corporation? According to Jesus' words individual is responsible for finding this "poor" and give personal help. If you want to "organize" help, do it. :))

Jesus didn't give idea how followers have to collect and donate money to Him or to Apostles, for their accommodation, food, clothes, transportation, dentist, solar energy and green roofs ... or for their Preaching Activity. 

I am sure how there is many "poor" JW witnesses in the world. They need to receive help, not WT Corporations. You know story of average ideology. You eat meat, i eat greens .... in average WE are eating cabbage rolls :)))) 

Money and Place for worship.

What is connection in this two opposite things? What was purpose for money boxes in Jerusalem Temple?

What is origin and purpose of "treasury" from Jew ancient times to Jerusalem in Jesus' time? 

Before money (coins and later paper) came to be meaning for pay, people giving material things as animals, gold, grain, wine, oil and similar valuable things as Offering to God (for house of JHVH -  "All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the LORD and must go into his treasury.” "Then they burned the whole city and everything in it, but they put the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron into the treasury of the LORD’s house.- Joshua 6. And as support or payment for priests. Also as support for God's wars in Israel nation. For building and repairing house for God and also for house for King. For the maintenance of the temple and its ministry. 

What is purpose of money box that was in possession of Jesus and The 12? For Temple, for some Building where they gathered together? For ministry service, preaching service ....? Who came to idea to carry money box and collecting money and for what purpose? It is something about "the poor" in John 12, but comment made by writer explaining how Judas was thief, in fact. 

Who are "thief" today in WT Society and in JW org? Who holds, carry "money box" in Organization and for what reason? 

:)) We must understand something. Where is Money, there is chaos and mess. Money corrupts people.

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus response was very clear, that it would not be by things they could observe, not by physical signs.

(Luke 17:20, NLT) One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, “When will the Kingdom of God come?” Jesus replied, “The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs. "

Very new aspect for me too. By this i would say how WT Society and JW org application about Matt 24 and many events or "signs" that people can see in very visible and factual way have another meaning. Because, Announcing how The year 1914 and The Kingdom as Heavenly Invisible Fact with Physical and Earthly "evidences" visible to eyes, that making entering in some Special period for human, is Preaching Error.   

Perhaps Matt 24 is possible to use for 1914, as for many other periods in Human History. But Establishing of Kingdom (in 1914??) is not possible to support by "signs", because of reasoning Jesus has told, as you very well pointed out. 

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Everything that is good belongs to God.

What is "good" for  a man, woman ? :))

To be without any problem, doubt, etc? To have all we want and consider as "good" in our opinion? 

Sometimes, to be in trouble, doubt, hard time can be considered as "good" for individual if he learn something and become better person. 

By this "bad" is also "good" and belongs to God, too  :)) As in Job experience. Only after sufferings he learn something "good" he didn't know before and perhaps he would never knew without suffer. What we shall say, is suffer good or bad?

In other hand, suffer is "good" only in limited way, and not in everything people have to face. Because, in cases of child molestation for example, as in many others evil things,  this sort of thinking, reasoning would be very strange.  

When people, religious, put theologically, answering the question; Why does God allow suffering? Answers are these from JWorg: 

First, he has not stopped Satan and those who side with him from trying to prove that they are right. Allowing time to pass has thus been necessary. In the thousands of years of human history, mankind has been able to try every form of self-rule, or human government. Mankind has made some advances in science and other fields, but injustice, poverty, crime, and war have grown ever worse. Human rule has now been shown to be a failure.

Second, Jehovah has not helped Satan to rule this world. If God were to prevent horrible crimes, for instance, would he not, in effect, be supporting the case of the rebels? Would God not be making people think that perhaps humans can govern themselves without disastrous results? If Jehovah were to act in that way, he would become party to a lie. However, “it is impossible for God to lie.”—Hebrews 6:18.

It is time to ask: If Main question, according to WT publication, is issue of Power and Governing over people, than "proving" who is right and who is wrong have to be settled in sort of Court or Congress, Senate, to be said in such terminology, and not on roads and hills, etc. 

Also, for second part of explanation. Preventing crimes is not prove of supporting those who doing crimes. Contrary, by active involving in situation you show your standpoint and position, are you for "good" or "bad", especially if you are in possibility to see  human hearts and motives and have all wisdom and power. 

10 hours ago, Outta Here said:

The dedication of a building for a particular purpose is really an act of the users, making that dedication for the time that they find that building suitable for that particular purpose.

This is good explanation :)))))  Than i have suggestion.

Ceremony of "dedication" building to God after Construction team  had finished job have to be done again but in reversible meaning.  After real estate agent made new contract, Congregants will be gathered  in KH for the last time "TO UNDEDICATE" buillding, bricks, roof, grass etc, especially if new buyer is someone from false religion church.  It would not be a good thing to remain even the smallest part of God’s blessing to a new owner.     :))))

5 hours ago, divergenceKO said:

Especially when someone judges another as a newbie.

10 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

I can add, how you believe the Org. is false.

Doctrines and instructions that some Church has as teachings, make that particular religion as false or semi false. I think that we can not find any organization or church as "only true religion" because all of them have at least one or more than one err, wrong, false doctrine/s.

10 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

There is no such thing as a Jesus Witness.

:))))

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” - Acts 1

10 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

How can love and hate run in sync,

.... you are "newbie" in this ? :)))

5 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, all this what we discuss here and there about this and that subject, bring us little, on one hand. But on other hand bring us a lot, because discussion like this help us to see religious fraud.

This comment tells me, you have lost all faith and your heart has become dark.

How to respond to JW member on one of such quote, but by Bible verse :))) Let Bible correct you and your judging other people heart, mind and motivation and outcome in their life.

If I speak in the tongues^[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. ² If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. ³ If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,^[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing. - 1 Cor.

5 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

If you conclude religion to be false, then you are calling Christ false. He formed the first Christian church.

You do, obviously, speaking, not about any religion, but about JW religion as religion that Jesus formed as No 1 church??  By this reasoning, you conclude how only your religion is not false? 

5 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

He is the church.

If He is your Church, why you not called yourself Jesus' Witnesses?? 

6 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

If fault is the only thing you seek, then fault you will see.

I think how "testing spirits" would be more appropriate wording about sort of  reasoning and concluding about my "seeking".

6 hours ago, Sean Migos said:

Here I would ask, where is the “love” for a human soul when, hate is in your heart?

Bible support "hate", when we hate what is wrong. Do i need to quote verses about this too?! :))) If you conclude how i hate "human soul" because that "soul" not thinking like me, than you are on wrong path.  

On 9/16/2019 at 11:35 PM, Sean Migos said:

elementary doctrine of Christ

.... is this: Love God and Love People  as yourself! 

Clear and Simple.

All other theology is less important, or, in many cases (as it was presented) completely useless.

Did Jesus died on cross or stake, do you have or not have immortal soul, hell, idols, etc... loosing ALL meanings if you have No Love.

What if some day in the future God command people to make ... idols of something and to have it on the top of the refrigerator? Would that be "clarification, refinements" or else?  Laws and doctrines and theology is nothing, worth nothing .... in Comparison to Love - The Elementary Thing.

Well, all this what we discuss here and there about this and that subject, bring us little, on one hand. But on other hand bring us a lot, because discussion like this help us to see religious fraud.

Stay well! Wish you health and prosperity!      

@Sean Migos you are not "newbie".  :)))

33 minutes ago, Sean Migos said:

How did God touch your heart personally to know when the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has changed or manipulated scripture in order to be accused of such?

Please go to G. Jackson testimony before  Australia Royal Commission. He said something that whole word was heard - you are free  to disobey GB instructions and doctrines, if you, as one of JW member, find in  your personal reading  of your own Bible something that your understanding and conscience  tell you is different than GB has said. 

Of course, you will be dfd because of that at the end of a day :))) 

BUT he, as Legal Representative of WT, JW  and GB said, you are NOT obligated to obey Them IF YOU THINKING DIFFERENTLY. In other word you are free to Think in Critical way of Thinking. In other words - to testing spirits -  this wording is for those who have issue or problem, if  hear words "Critical Thinking"

43 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The theory is that the GB gets weekly feedback from each congregation through the circuit overseer’s report.

Circuit overseers gets reports from elders, in theory. Elders gets information from congregants, in theory. Congregants are not ready to talk against organizational preparations and doctrines, in theory.

Well, does this "feedback" is based on assumptions, personal impressions and conclusions or even gossips?

43 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The old Russian proverb says: “Ask the children what they want for dinner, and they say: ‘ice cream.’ They get beetroot soup because they live under communist rule, and not a democracy.”

If proverb is so old, i doubt that children of those time had knowledge what the ice cream is :)))))

43 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You just want them to be taught by yourself and your friends

You give me more importance than i really have. :))

16 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

October 2019 study article 41, paragraph 14

please remove this murdering scene !

11 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Jack Ryan you are on the wrong side. 'Get behind me me'.....

Judging? :))

11 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Her true motivations will become known over time.

Her motivations ?? 

If she wants "money" for suffer, what is wrong with that?! If she wants "justice", what is wrong with that? If she want the public "to know" what happened, what is wrong with that?

It is not about her motivations, it is about JW Organization, WT Society and GB who, with a little help of WT Lawyers,  making policy and instruct elders what to do in cases like this.

Please, would you reconsider and reevaluate your emotions.  Because "motivation" is in emotions. By asking about  her "motivations" we entering in judging privilege that is reserved only to .......

11 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Jehovah is the final Judge of all of us.

If you believe in this above, about JHVH as final Judge, than i am surprised about even your idea to be suspicious about her "motivations"..... as Human Pretrial of JHVH Trial. :))

11 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

 

JW Elder, Mr Kevin,  became famous for this statement.  It would be good if WT publish this "experience of Court persecution against only true religion" in Study article :))

16 hours ago, Dotlizhihii Tlenaai said:

I have not found any evidence to suggest the GB has made it a practice to rule over others except by following Jehovah’s command.

When someone forbids JW members to be critical on WT articles, or not to hear opposite view about JW Organization and GB, under treat of rebuke, shunning and dfd, than that can be understand as intention or reality of idea - "rule over others".   

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As servants (slaves) the ones preparing such meals should expect and desire to be questioned about the ingredients of the meals they distribute, they should humbly seek out the input of others with respect to the content and quality of the meals prepared and distributed by such stewards.

This is very good observation. GB are full in pride and self confidence of idea how food they prepare and serve are so good for JW's and non JW's. With expectations that JW's have to trust them because they are worth of trust.

About served food. All of us experienced how, when we were guest in someones home at meal, we have been asked; do you like food, is everything tasty, do you need more salt, paper, etc? Even in restaurants waiter asking; is it all good, all right with served food?   

Self made conclusion by authors of articles (and pictures) how publications and program are "proper food in proper time", or to be more precisely, not by authors always, but by Publishing Company and GB who making last verification and giving "green light" for publishing, not giving that possibility to asking for more "salt" in food. :)) 

Of course, some people need less and some people need more "salt", so it is also good to notice how food is not possible to prepare, for all this various people, only in one "pot".

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Rochester, facing potentially huge judgments for past sexual abuse by its priests and other ministers, filed for bankruptcy protection Thursday morning.

https://eu.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2019/09/12/rochester-ny-catholic-diocese-bankruptcy-sex-abuse-lawsuits-child-victims-act-cva-chapter-11/2297878001/

some quotes from article:

At the same time, some critics say a bankruptcy proceeding may limit the release of damning information about abuse and cover-up, leaving some victims feeling the process did not provide the public acknowledgment of their torment that they had sought.

"Settlements provided through bankruptcy court typically allow church officials to keep disclosures of abuse in house. Without having to report these allegations to the police or otherwise making them public, a full accounting of the number of abusers and who may have concealed or ignored those crimes can stay hidden," asserted a statement released by SNAP, a nationwide support group for victims of church sex abuse.

Another plaintiff's lawyer, Jeff Anderson, whose firm has filed more CVA lawsuits than any other to date, denounced the diocese's move as "very disturbing and disappointing.

"Bishop Salvatore Matano’s choice is simply a legal tactic to protect assets and prevent jury trials, and an attempt to prevent the truth from being revealed," Anderson said.

DA 19-0077   ALEXIS NUNEZ and HOLLY McGOWAN, Plaintiffs and Appellees, v. WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC.; CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES and THOMPSON FALLS CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, Defendants and Appellants. __________________________________ WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC.; CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES and THOMPSON FALLS CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, Third-Party Plaintiffs, and Appellants, v. MAXIMO NAVA REYES and IVY McGOWAN-CASTLEBERRY, Third-Party Defendants and Appellees. Oral Argument; is set for September, 13, 2019, at 10:00 a.m. in the Northern Hotel, Billings Montana.

In 2004, two congregants informed the Elders of the Thompson Falls Congregation that congregant Maximo Reyes had sexually abused them when they were children. The Thompson Falls Elders contacted the Elders at the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses and the legal department at Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. (Watchtower) for advice. Per the advice they received, the Thompson Falls Elders kept the matter confidential and did not report it to authorities.

2 hours ago, Anna said:

But if you know the Bible, then you believe the opposite:

Hope dies last :))