Srecko Sostar

Thanks for comment. I conclude from your comment how you made argumentation about two sort of "perfection". That is also what i was try to explain and present. And, of course, terminologically, people have various ideas what "perfection" means to them. :))

I have it one :)))

I made suggestion how people don't need to be "perfect" to be able speaking truth. Definition of truth (Entry 1 of 2) 1 a (1): the body of real things, events, and facts : ACTUALITY (2): the state of being the case : FACT (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b: a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true truths of thermodynamics c: the body of true statements and propositions 2 a: the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality b chiefly British : TRUE sense 2 c: fidelity to an original or to a standard 3 a: sincerity in action, character, and utterance b archaic : FIDELITY, CONSTANCY 4 capitalized, Christian Science : GOD in truth : in accordance with fact : ACTUALLY In that sense, about idea of "perfection". What are your thoughts about devil and his angels. Did devil lost his "perfection"? Did he lost his abilities as spiritual creatures? In case of Adam and Eve, people said how they lost their "perfection" in meaning: they lost everlasting life, they lost to stay young, they lost continuation to be and stay in "perfect" health of body and mental power etc. In that meaning (comparing), what do you think: Did devil lost his power "to fly", be invisible, to making supernatural things of all kind as it is described in Bible? Does his ability to deceive is less powerful (less "perfect") today than before? Because, perhaps as in case of interpretation made by religious people - as people are far from genuine perfection of Adam and Eve, they come to be "more imperfect". What ever that is and can be. If this is explanation or one of explanations, as reason why people going from "bad to worst",... than it is strange how people today are able to do "more" (more in every sense) than people before, more than people who was "closer" to "perfection", because time gap between them and Adam and Eve was less than it is from people today. I can conclude how "perfection" or "imperfection" is not guarantee for anyone, will/would he speak the truth or not. Devil spoke lie to Adam and Eve when he was "perfect". His lie happened to be Before God called/give him a name "snake", much before God "dfd" him. In fact, i have to ask: Do you now some Bible verse who give some idea or reason to believe that devil had come been "imperfect" after rebellion? (he became imperfect after the lie was told?) Adam and Eve also spoke lie, and that was happened before God send them out of Eden. In this examples i don't see nothing, but evidence how "perfection" of all sort, of any kind, does not mean inability to act as "imperfect" (to tell a lie - purposely, for example ...... ) Or to look on "imperfection" as only reason why somebody tell wrong, error statement :))

Somebody made a video about Amos 3:7 and many of GB statements how they are not inspired. Verse is - Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. According to this God's promise, in this period of time and in ANY period of time, if JHVH is pleased to do it (especially IF this period is/are Last days of this Old World and time when God introducing change on worldwide scene for Kingdom) it can/would be expected that God Reveals such Things to HIS servants aka prophets aka FDS aka GB of WT Organizaton. Because that is something what JW member is expecting and what was thought to expect - to hear Life Saving Instruction even if such Instruction maybe Not Sound Reasonable from Human Standpoint. As Bible provide examples of God's past dealings with human and of His way of Revealing His Will, it is very notable and significant to notice how such Revelations was done in supernatural way, or in Bible wording "By Inspiration". Well, it seems how we have dilemma and problem with our Trust to GB as Group of Man who leading 8 billion people to safety of NW. If they were not "Inspired" all this time, it can be how they wandered through the Modern Desert not founding the way to Promised Land. And they still do this same thing today. Do You Trust Them as You Trust JHVH or Jesus??!! :))

If you don't mind i would put that in this way: A) Jesus didn't provide no information's to GB, because miracles stopped in 1 century :)) B) Ideas that GB imagined to be "truth" was "empowered" by ?? in their everyday Bible reading C) Truth can't be neither imperfect nor perfect. "The Truth" can be - or truth or lie D) GB statement in WT article: Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.", Watchtower 2017 Feb p.26 is complete nonsense. Why? Because: 1) Nothing of that sort was not written in Bible. 2) FDS "appointment" was about sharing food, and NOT about producing any sort of food, because food has already produced by Jesus in his Teachings.

I just made few way of possible reasoning on issue. And as result, each of this different views on matter can, may bring various outcomes on handling with JW people who done something that this religious organization not allow. As we see from various statements made by JW Representatives, this "sin - crime" issue is also "foggy" to them... Or it is not?! They said how Elders are to deal only with "sin" and Secular Authority to deal with "crime". But in cases of child abuse, it is obvious how such differentiation in 1) Terminology and in 2) Division of duties (among Elders and Worldly Officers) is bad for victims. Don't you agree? If victims suffer because Administrative Ideology and rules and protocols, than people in charge must CHANGE what they now doing. As Jesus said, when your animal falls in into a pit or into a hole at Sabbath - would you brake Sabbath Law and provide help or waiting for next day? Jesus was obviously showed "rebellious" solution :))) Would you allow for Children to wait on some Clark in JW Office to find time and way how to solve this problem?! Do you think that GB need to change attitude and brake "Sabbath Law" about this?! I hope you will say: no, on first and yes, on second.

Of course, this sort or JW reasoning will prevail.

I have never dealt with the reasons for the aversion that exists between Croats and Serbs. Neighboring countries with very similar language but different Christian religions. Two small nations with big appetites. The 1991 conflicts arose and were caused by old, unresolved accounts in their relationships dating back to about 1941 (especially) and before. How much and in what measures Foreigner Powers was involved in conflict it is hard to say for me. They had, for sure, interests. And some of actors had their expectations in relation to West or East. They, Croats and Serbs, who was involved in conflicts in WW2 period as soldiers of regular armies and paramilitary groups and/or supporters of domestic governments and in this or that as supporters or in alliance with out side powers, done many crimes for sure. Tito was united many Yugoslav nations in resistance to domestic and foreign aggression and violence. But, obviously he had power and way how to unite all of them in one goal, freedom and own state. After his dead, and changes in east block, fall of Wall, awaking of people who want separate states, which is one of possibility made by YU Constitution everything went in that direction. Why leaders of YU Republics didn't that wisely and without conflicts and suffers and many deaths ....?

In minds, spiritual cells :))))

against who .... is the key for understanding As i understand teachings of Bible (and perhaps teachings of JW Organization too), everything that is against "our neighbor" is also against God, because all people was made in the image of God. Well, doing something against That Image of God is same as doing something against Origin/Author of Image. In that relations i do not know how "the key" you talking about, making issue to be more understandable. We can go further with this. If human doing something that is bad for nature and animal world, we can say also how this is against God also, because He is Creator and Author of that Nature. If that is as you say, why GB and JW Lawyers complicate this issue? If JW Elders want to Judge only sins (specific list of things that are not crimes in the eye of Secular Authorities) than let them to handled such sins. Perhaps this idea can be some sort of New Policy until some "New Light" would bring more Clarifications on Issue. :)) But when something inside JW Organization happen what is not just "a sin", would it be "key" to call Secular Authorities to deal with it? If, there is no difference between a crime and a sin, as you suggest in comment, than JW Organization have no need for Judicial Committees of Elders. All can be handled by Secular Authorities. :)) In both way of reasoning, something not working well in JW "Spiritual Paradise". I am expecting that future (with new generation of overlapping lawyers) bring some positive results on this. :))

Perhaps some JW members will be strengthen by this to reconsider their position and participation in Organization.

Thanks for comment. Audio and video evidence, above, show us or prove us how members were openly called To Trust Spiritual Management of Organization aka GB. Speaker was, in this sentence/claim said how Jesus trust them, and because this reason members have all needed proofs to doing the same, to trust GB. In 1:01 speaker say: Jesus trusted the imperfect faithful slave to do its best to convey spiritual food. Do you also trust the slave? Speaker was, in this sentence/claim said how "Jesus trust them", and because this reason members have all needed proofs to doing the same, to trust GB. Well, listeners are in position to have big confidence in his claim and to trust or believe him as a speaker who run this TV show. Not need to mention about specific way of speak and gestures in crucial moments of his "proofing" on few subjects (voice and gestures which i found very funny and as try to be manipulative in childish way) and subjects that are very important for members of this Organization to continue and stay "in hope". In the same time Management of Organization continue with their "uninspired and imperfect visions" which deceiving many.

JW members are instructed by this GB member to trust their leaders aka Governing Body. On other side Bible has many verses that warning people about that issue. Well, it seems how human influence and even manipulation is on work. Just few Bible verses as evidence: My dear brothers, do not trust every spirit. But test the spirits to see if they belong to God. - 1 John Do not rely on a friend; do not trust in a companion. Seal the doors of your mouth from her who lies in your arms - Micah 7 Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. - Psalm 146 For your own sakes, quit trusting in mere man,Who is only the breath in his nostrils.*Why should he be taken into account? - Isaiah 2

I just have listen about new suit against WT Society and reporter of KOAT TV reported how WT spokesperson said: "Jehovah's Witnesses abhor child abuse as a sin and crime. Our policies on child protection ..." Well, i believe how he know what he speaking about or he was instructed to tell this from WT lawyers. Sin and crime are two different words in JW organization.

Thanks to others who found it. I just copy/paste. As you see, WT Society and other sister Corporations filling some financial records to Financial Authorities. But they have no obligation to publishing them to JW members or others. :))

After judgment day (Armageddon) JW waiting, all people will stay to be sinful ..... for at least 1000 years :))

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/922330/000106299302000371/form10k.txt https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regId=216647&subId=0 http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/386/386043103/386043103_201404_990.pdf http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990pf_pdf_archive/386/386043103/386043103_201504_990PF.pdf https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1407041/000146299909000005/0001462999-09-000005-index.htm https://abr.business.gov.au/Help/Glossary https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View?abn=42002861225 https://ibsaproperty.com/#about

About - No one has any right to questioning His action. I think how you made wrong conclusion on this. When satan and after Adam and Eve "questioned" JHVH actions, it is interesting how God, you want to defend with this few resolute statements, done in fact opposite of your conclusions. How? God not punished none because of "questioning Him and His actions or rules". In fact JHVH allowed them and many other people after them to addressing "questions" of all sort. Until today. And God not show any animosity to Questioner or to Questions. He is displeased with some bad deeds of human, but that doesn't mean how He waiting to judging your thoughts and words, even against Him. He have more understanding for people and their questions than you showed in your personal presentation and mediating for God and in defending His Honor in simple sentence statement above. I would be pleased that God "wipe out" bad things and people who in purposely evil mind doing those evils to others. But in same time, I do questioning God's waiting, and many more. Because, too many people and children and animals suffer (suffered in the past) because of His "waiting". And if He decide to "wipe out entire earth", as you give suggestion that He might, ... so how that helps to prove - you are right and I am wrong ?? :))))

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. - Acts 2 very visual effects :)))

Sin vs Crime Picture can look as this version 1: JW members in Russia committed no Sin against nobody....., In version 2, picture is changed by Bible verses: JW members done Crime against Secular Authority who Governed with JHVH permission and against what God set in place .... And by that committed a Sin against God. ... So Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God. Consequently, the one who resists authority is opposing what God has set in place, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. In version 3, picture is changed by next Bible verse: But Peter and the other apostles replied, "We must obey God rather than men. In version 4, picture is paint by GB decisions and interpretations in particular case. for example: Mexico, Malawi, Bulgaria, Russia, etc.

In the old days, people used to travel in various ways, and there were roads and also city streets. However, I do not remember that there is a divine law on traffic in the Bible or in other Jewish scriptures. :)) So, if the law did not describe or prescribe something, then that particular thing does not exist neither as a sin nor as a crime. :)) As the Bible speaks of divine law, which is a completely different category from secular law (no matter what they punished and some of the same actions by people), then we could still say that the words sin and crime have different origins and meanings. No divine law says whether or not a car driver can drive down the street and at what speed. Because of this, people, not God, have passed traffic regulations and laws. This human law has no concept of sin but an offense (traffic violation) and some others deal with concept of crime, not with sin. Bible spoke about Secular Authority who carry "sword" and punishing violators of the Human Law, not of Divine Law. Of course, various human societies made changes through centuries and abandon biblical concept of "sin" in general, but they adopted the term "crime". Perhaps because, religion and state have to be separated. And for that reason, JW Church was called to clear problems (especially actual issue of various child molestation made by members to other members) because of clerical ideas about elder-member privilege communication, two witness rule, Judicial Committees as Parallel Legislative System to "worldly" Legislative and similar. This sort/way of solving inside problems as religion community coming from Concept of Sin. On other side, JW Church as Institution, was not showed much will to report such "sinful crime" because they, generally, made distinction between "sin" and "crime". They decided how elders are appointed to deal only with "sins", but Secular Authority with "crimes", and even if it is the same act. (Richard Ashe ....

I just said how terminology in JW Church is more, often based on word "sin". In NWT Bible there is only one single word in whole book with wording - "crime". In Luke 23:4 where Pilate, as non Jew, supposedly, using word "crime". Some other translations using word "crime" on various places in Bible. I just noticed how word "sin" is more popular and somehow prevailed in JW spiritual, everyday vocabulary. sin noun [ C/U ] US /sɪn/ an act of breaking a religious law, or such acts considered together: [ C ] In most religions, stealing is regarded as a sin. A sin is also anything considered wrong: [ C ] It is not a sin to drop your kid off at soccer practice and stay in the car to read a book. UK /sɪn/ US /sɪn/ C2 the offence of breaking, or the breaking of, a religious or moral law: crime noun [ C/U ] US /krɑɪm an action or activity that is against the law, or illegal activity generally People say something is a crime if it is wrong illegal activities , an illegal act

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire Well, by this verse and what you have said perhaps Jesus thought about such model of Baptism? And not with water?

I can understand what you said, but IF Words are not spoken (in one way or another) than it is opposite to Jesus command :))

According to reports on Jesus baptism, it is ok with your or anyone else's memory that it is impossible to recall such thing :))). Perhaps somebody else on forum can explain similarity and differences on Baptisms made by John and all later Baptisms made by Jesus's Followers. After Jesus's Resurrection they have been instructed HOW to do Baptism. One element of John's way of baptism obviously continued - immersing in water. Also, as i recall, John proclaims baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sin, and says another will come after him who will not baptize with water, but with the Holy Spirit. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.....and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. - Mat 3 After desert temptations: From that time Jesus began to proclaim, (not disciples) “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near ...Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the good news[d] of the kingdom and curing every disease and every sickness among the people. - Mat 4 Then Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to cure every disease and every sickness..... These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim the good news,(not doing baptism) ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near. - Mat 10 His disciples came and took the body (John the Baptist) and buried it; then they went and told Jesus. - Mat 14 After Resurrection: And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” - Mat 28 Well, nothing pro et contra, just chronological line on who said what to who :))