Srecko Sostar

8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In a scholarly world. There are many levels of understanding. There is no one set of rule. However, scripture does contain certain rules. This is why Jesus never became a formal rabbi with scholarly works. He didn’t need to, just like we don’t need to. Here is but a taste of the many variations.

He, Jesus, didn't need formal education to be a formal rabbi. You sad well, because Jesus has never become Formal Rabbi. And He obviously has never made plans to be one of them. :))

But he was .... What? Inspired by spirit ? or Guided by spirit?

If we said how He was "Inspired", than we agree with WTJWORG unique way of interpretations about word "inspired".

 If we said how He was just "Spirit Guided", than we agree with WTJWORG way of idea what mean to be Guided But Not Inspired. By THEY It means how Jesus read "Bible" every day and rowing about spirit behind the word, and with angels help he was been successful in all that.

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people. Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people. Every older sister who encourages a younger sister, every younger brother who encourages an older brother, etc. All the congregation feeds one another by building one another up and encouraging one another.

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people.

If you allow me to say, somehow it can be correct to say that THEY thinking how only THEY can give Life Saving Instructions, and no one else but THEY. :))

Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people.

Yes, they can present, but inside boarders that is Authorized by THEY.

Every older sister who encourages a younger sister, every younger brother who encourages an older brother, etc. All the congregation feeds one another by building one another up and encouraging one another.

"Encourage" is broad term. In relation to Religious Matters, and what is said previously, perhaps this specific sort of "encouraging" you mentioned, is about encouraging To Stay Firm in Temporary Teachings, until some of this temporary dogmas would not be changed by THEY.

:)) In the end, it is not question about who is inspired, but who is Guided by THEY. 

TEACHING BOX 16A - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102017945

Is Christendom the Antitypical Jerusalem?

In the past, our literature has referred to Christendom as the antitype of apostate Jerusalem. The conditions in unfaithful Jerusalem—including idolatry and widespread corruption—certainly remind us of what is happening in Christendom. However, in recent years our publications, including the one you are now reading, have not taken the type-antitype approach to prophecy except where the Bible provides a clear basis for doing so. Is there a solid Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem? No.

Consider the following: Jerusalem was at one time a center of pure worship; later, its inhabitants turned apostate. By contrast, Christendom has never practiced pure worship. Right from its inception in the fourth century C.E., Christendom has always taught false doctrine.

In addition, after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians, Jehovah restored the city to his favor and it again became the center of true worship. Christendom, on the other hand, has never had God’s favor, and once it is destroyed during the great tribulation, it will never rise again.

In view of the foregoing, what may we conclude? When we examine Bible prophecies that were fulfilled on unfaithful Jerusalem, we may say, ‘This or that reminds us of what we see in Christendom today.’ But there appears to be no Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem.

First, perhaps is about Lexicon, Vocabulary  in JW Culture. When JW Church and members talking about "Christendom" they refer firstly or mostly to Roman Catholic Church and all Churches and Denominations that believe In Jesus Christ...but in wrong, false and idolatrous way. But JW consider themselves to be Christians too, but not part of "Christendom" (by this they quote can be consider as Christendom.  "....we are Christians who do our best to follow the example set by Jesus Christ and to live by his teachings." -https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-a-cult/

Why this linguistic distinction is so important to JW? To be, sometimes, called with name "Christians" but want to run miles away from word "Christendom"?

Christendom - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christendom

 noun - English Language Learners Definition of Christendom

: people who are Christians

: the part of the world where most people are Christians

But another thing is of bigger importance. Do you remember how many articles and books and magazines taught you all, over such long period of decades, on so many meetings and congregations baked up with so many Bible verses and Study paragraphs about who is Jerusalem and who is Christendom and all that stuff??!!

And now they figured up, they rowed deep, Under Spirit Motivation and Guidance, to tell you how Now there is No Single One Solid Scriptural Basis to believe in that teaching, doctrine, dogma! 

Do You really believe how Church Leaders and Guardians of Doctrine in WTJWORG know what they are talking about , as those who watch for your souls?! 

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However I have previously pointed out that this scripture was written before all 66 'writings' were completed, AND that ALL SCRIPTURE had not been brought together as one 'book'. 

It is very significant that numbers 6 and 66 are numbers in relation to Bible. Because Bible said how 6, 66 and 666 are numbers in context to something evil, something that is in opposition to God. Who inspired or what inspired people who put 66 letters, books as parts of Bible? 

The Catholic Bible has 73 Books. (7 more than the Protestant Bible) The Protestant Bible has 66 Books. GB decide to accept Protestant Bible. Were GB inspired, sorry, i mean - were GB guided by spirit  in this decision?

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is interesting how this verses about Power over Earth, and Heaven, were written in similar time in two gospels. By that this two Sons were/are Two Kings over same Things.

One more thing makes this Authorization and Transfer of Power complex.  

In Romans we have:  For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.              In Colossians we have: For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.  He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 

By this verses, and perhaps some more, we see how He, Jesus Already has ALL Power and Authority from some far point in the past time ( Day One or similar) much before (long ago) any sort of rebellion described in Scriptures. 

Well here arise another question about voluntarily made decision of giving up of Own Authority (from The Word  aka First Born, Jesus) and His permission that His Power, Authority over All Things will be given to The Third in Hierarchy (i guess third) even in limited scale.    

On 6/15/2019 at 8:41 AM, Outta Here said:

"So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time.  Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish."

Luke 4:4-6

I have question: In what moment, period of time and under what circumstances was all this authority handed to devil? Next is: what "all" in fact means, to what extension, to what level? 

Does this quote, made by satan and written by human (under inspiration), suggest how Almighty God HANDED His Own Authority (full or partial) to devil?? In other words, does JHVH with all knowledge about future and people, humankind, gave to satan licence to deceive, to torture, to kill, to ruin and to destroy life and everything else on Earth, as he wish and like ??!! In case of Job He done exactly that (except death).   

In next step we have another quote made by Jesus and written by human (under inspiration) - ¹⁸ Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.  

WTJWORG confirming doctrine how devil has all Power and Kingship over all Earth, Kingdoms and people, also above angels in heaven, and it seems, my opinion, also Universe space, partially or somehow else. At least, satan was in the Heaven with his influence in spiritual space and perhaps physical space too, until famous year 1914.  

It is interesting how this verses about Power over Earth, and Heaven, were written in similar time in two gospels. By that this two Sons were/are Two Kings over same Things. If so, idea how Jesus began to be King in 1914 is not in harmony with his claim about:  All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 

In both cases, about wording "authority", something missing. About what sort of authority is about? And for what period of time?

By this two Bible verses it looks how One Father gave same or similar Authority to both of His Sons ??!! Does someone have some thoughts about it? :)) 

4 hours ago, Jeff Danby said:

Truth isn't for everyone.

Interesting. How do you explain this, please.

Question: Is @Foreigner real person or someones clone just for purpose of down voting? :)))

Inside WTJWRG Institution one thing is of crucial importance. Who are those people who have authorization to govern, rule, lead this organization and people who are members/believers? Who are those people who represent JHVH and Jesus and their Will?

In this WT article authors tried to explain history of this.  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-february-2017/who-is-leading-gods-people-today/

Why this article is interesting (again) in connection to topic? Here is some quotes from pages of this article:

CAN YOU EXPLAIN?

In the first century and today, how have those taking the lead among God’s people been . . .

empowered by holy spirit?

assisted by angels?

guided by God’s Word?

.... Jesus had given his followers a commission: “You will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8) How could they possibly complete that assignment? True, Jesus had assured them that they would soon receive holy spirit. (Acts 1:5) Still, an international preaching campaign required direction and organization. To direct and organize his people in ancient times, Jehovah used visible representatives.

Famous paragraph 12:  The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. 

As we can see from box in WT magazine under question Can you explain? author AVOID to use direct word "Inspired" and instead this explicit sort of spirit manifestation as it is commonly viewed while reading Bible (for example, to write holy scriptures, to tell something as prophecy or command from God, to heal the sick....etc) author put word - empowered by HS. And now author give factual example from 1 century:  

Holy spirit was poured out on all anointed Christians, but it specifically enabled the apostles and other elders in Jerusalem to fulfill their role as overseers. For example, in 49 C.E., holy spirit guided the governing body to make a decision regarding the issue of circumcision. 

Author highlights 2 things. First is ROLE of OVERSEEING. And second is about MAKING DECISIONS. In contrast or continuation to this  1 century example, author of article later emphasized this:  

In 1919, three years after Brother Russell’s death, Jesus appointed “the faithful and discreet slave.” For what purpose? To give his domestics “food at the proper time.” (Matt. 24:45)......

Evidence of holy spirit. The holy spirit has helped the Governing Body to grasp Scriptural truths not previously understood. For example, reflect on the list of beliefs clarified that was referred to in the preceding paragraph. Surely, no human deserves credit for discovering and explaining these “deep things of God”! (Read 1 Corinthians 2:10.)

Here we have just statements of author who firmly say that FDS aka GB been appointed by Jesus in 1919. But another thing is something what call on more alarm. As Evidence of holy spirit is, situation when this Body grasp something as Truth under holy spirit helping or empowering. 

In this explanation one thing is very questionable and somehow danger. In period from 1919 (we shall not talking about 1 century GB or about Angel Assistance today) this entity who "share" food under title: Bible Truth, with supposed help of holy spirit, in fact they had  spread "Fake Truths", they later changed into "Real Truths".  Some doctrines they  produced in few steps as yes-no-yes ... truths. Here we comes to possible conclusion how reason for that errors, according to this article, was not in Human Representatives of Jesus here on Earth. No, reason and cause for that is in holy spirit who has "empowered" them in that confusing way and direction.

Because other two elements in this equation (assisted by angels +  guided by God’s Word) was not been sufficient and powerful enough to correct wrong direction made by empowering influence of holy spirit. :)))) 

Here we see how "blame" for errors and imperfect food can be found in the same reasons why food can be good and eatable too, after some period of time (in refrigerator :))), of course. The way how this article try to prove the credibility of GB for task of sharing the food,  becomes nonsensical.

But, pay attention to this: 

empowered =

having the official authority or freedom to do something  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/empowered

having the knowledge, confidence, means, or ability to do things or make decisions for oneself                       https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empowered 

Here we see how this definition changed our view on issue and article. Why they used word EMPOWERED in connection to spiritual food? In fact, according to Dictionaries, WT magazine talk about Power of GB Over People. Here it is not ISSUE about Food Quality, Truth or Lie, Perfection or Imperfection. IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL.  

It seems how i will lose very quickly my  Total Reputation with BTK down votes :)))))) What if exactly that is his Secret Mission .... to DFD me from this place ? 

For me, it's stupidity and bad taste. :)))

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I believe, you and Srecko spoke of “LOVE”.

Don't believe everything you hear, read and see :)))) 

Inspired ....spirit-driven.... spirit-guided.....motivated.....to have spirit of....lead up by spirit....to feel that spirit leads us ..... spirit impelled him .... he came in the spirit....sent out by the spirit....spirit did not permit them.....bound by the spirit...he was in the spirit....carried him away in the spirit... and many more other phrases in the Bible.

Why JW's mostly, generally think that "inspiration" is action reserved only to JHVH and Jesus or devil and demons?

"Inspiration" is state/condition of some person soul, mind and emotions.  The biblical / religious state of inspiration comes mainly out of the will of the people. But do you think how this is something that can be  achieved/put on/force upon only by the actions of superhuman powers?

JW's are very occupied with their religion in own life and have specific relationship to this word and have specific (organizational) understanding of the concept about this special word - inspired. They think, I think that they do think :)), about this word only in religious sense and consider how it is about or only about some sort of divinity or divine holiness (or devil evil) in background.

Because they attach great importance to this word in only one direction, they forget that there is also a very powerful influence of another force. It's the spirit of man. JW's must recall themselves more often that people are created on the image of God. And that all people in themselves have a strong spirit (of divine source by birth and genetically inherited). This human spirit is powerful and can inspire other people (earthly spirits) around them. You, as individual can be inspired by people around you or by people about whom you hear about, you are watching, you read about. 

Also it is interesting how some other things can inspire people. For example; nature, music, poetry, stories, events, animals, imagination.

Please, join to this topic and give, express your thoughts. Let your spirit free and let's inspire others :)))

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

This is a big topic to explore:

Yes, of course. I will prepare some thoughts and make a new topic, so we can, if you like, make some discussion and to hear also what other people think about it.  

You already used in this comment few interesting thoughts.

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The WTS has never claimed that the NWT was itself spirit-directed, or inspired in any way. If that had been claimed it would not have made sense to make the 2013 Revised Edition so different.

Ohh, sorry JW Insider, but they had not needed to made specific naming, numbering was/were some specific work, action and move that organization and leading people inside it had made, was been spirit-directed. ....

Because..... the whole organization with all guardians of doctrine who has made approval, gave green light for, of every Bible edition ......  is spirit-directed......supposedly.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But my point is that we can also work alongside people we don't necessarily trust, and still accomplish some good.

You mean your work (as single, not as we)  can accomplish some good ?  :))

I think how in this complexity of Trust Issue (on various fields, in various places and with various people) things are in so wide specter of colors with much/lot, lot of white and black too.  

But, main thing is thus, if you not trust someone , or have lost your trust in someone ... wall is very big/high.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

If religious leaders deceive us by saying truth includes men’s theories and doctrine, and with it expectations to uphold any and all teachings, we most certainly should conclude their teachings are not “sound”. We may surmise that another vine exists with branches producing an abundant deadly fruit, source in another spirit – the spirit of deception.  2 Tim 4:3,4; Titus 2:7,8; 2 Thess 2:9-12 

For the ear tests words
    as the tongue tastes food. - Job 34:3

But WTJWORG, to prevent testing of human's doctrines in JW religion gave "Fatherly advice";

You must obey all instructions we tell you to do, even if you have questions about them and even if that not sound reasonable according to your understanding and your conscience. You must trust GB because JHVH and Jesus trust them. You must avoid all and everything we don't authorized and approved.

What a trap! What a fraud! 

@Foreigner

One person more who are in crusade with down votes today :)))

13 hours ago, Outta Here said:

I have to say that sadly, I just do not follow your reasoning at all. You seem to have what appears to be something driving a rant against what you term as "WTJWORG", and then a mini dissertation on what you understand regarding the words expressed in the books of Deuteronomy and Matthew regarding the definition of the "nature" (sorry if that is a negative buzzword for you) of the human expression of love for God. You have lost me Srecko.

Rant? Ohh, i like bigger font to see it better, Not to produce noise and loud talking :)))

WTJWORG? That is my amalgam for naming two dominant things, components of your Organization, one is Corporation and another is Religion 

Nature? The type or main characteristic of something

Did i lost you? :)))) 

17 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Srecko Sostar That is a fantastic comment. Thank you for the thought you have put into that.

Billy the Kid obviously feels the lack of love for him, and so has to downvote you. 

We all need love and maybe God needs love from humans as you say.  

It does seem strange that God demanded love from the Nation of Israel. 

I have said previously that the Jews were in a much different situation to us. The Jews were born into the Law and had to serve God, whereas we can chose to serve God or not. 

Thank you John! 

Yeah, thoughts that circled in my mind about this in recent years, made me to think how God "desperately" need love from creatures He brought to existence - Humans (and Angels).

In case of old Jew, he incorporated, built this in legislative. I wander why. Because, from our present time aspects, perspective and after Jesus' Teachings, all is in free will, free wish, to respect, to serving god "from Love". Idea of Love including Free Choice. Because without such freedom to make decision of that sort/ thing,  seems questionable, to me at least.

 Love is Best, Ultimate, Perfect, Divine state of Soul. That is, i don't know, but i guess, Maximum what we can achieved in lifetime.

For me, God looking for such Love. He needs that Love. What would happened if we don't give Him Love?

12 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

ws11 7/15 p. 24 par. 9 Have You Entered Into God’s Rest? ***

⁹ Today, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes helps us to understand a teaching in the Bible in a way that is different from what we thought before. We should be happy about these changes.

ahahaha.  This statement made it clear how FDS thought was different in the past and they changed that thought today. It is not about what WE (JW's rank and file members) thought before. It is all about Them aka GB of WTJWORG. :))

@BillyTheKid46

Are you on crusade with downvotes this evening ? :))))

21 hours ago, Outta Here said:

I will state my view on this matter clearly so there is no mistaken implication.  Jehovah's happiness DOES NOT depend upon men. There. Is that clear enough? So what was the point you were making on this?

If you don't mind i would like to say my opinion and some short thoughts about this interesting and perhaps important issue, if not for all people but maybe for some. 

If we go from premise how God is perfect and self sufficient in all things, than we maybe may take this strong and clear view, you said, as final thing, and stop right there. That reaction, of course, would not erase possibility to ask some questions. Or at least One question which will Shake this sort of idea you presented.

What is that question? You can find this, not only interesting question, but in fact crucial, life important question, in God's command, request. This was expressed in verses:

   “Hear, O Israel: ^[a]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! ⁵ You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.  - Deuteronomy book   

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ ³⁸ This is the first and great commandment. - Mathew book

If you put attention on Jew Law you will notice how Law said, among many other things that are OBLIGATIONS, Love is something that a person feels morally or legally forced to do!  

Imagine, God command you to love him! I ask you and anyone else: Can you love somebody, anyone on command???!! 

On one side, this same God give you free will, and filled you with various emotions. You have Mind and have freedom to choose and God respect your choice. Does  Emotions have not that same freedom? 

As next argument in, for, this same issue we find this Bible statement: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. - Genesis book

People would agree in interpretation how this means that God transferred His attributes to humans. Among them is Love. Humans imitate, expressed God's attributes in their life. Love and hate, creating and destroying, smiling and crying and so on. While doing this, humans also have Big Need to Be Loved. If they are Not Loved things coming to be bad, behavior changes, interactions are problematic and other things are happens.

In this period when there is Lack of Love, when is Time Without Love, in both direction, no matter is it problem that You Do Not Give Love or Other Don't Give Their Love, YOU/WE FEEL UNHAPPY. 

Well, because all this i think that you missed to see some things, when you gave unmistakable stated view about significance/importance of Love - Humans - God connections, interactions, interdependence. 

15 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I always thought that all of the Anointed would be in heaven at Armageddon.

As i can recall, publications gave few different ideas about this in my life time. 

8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This is why you are an apostate and I'm not.

Who said that you are not??? :))