Srecko Sostar

If you don't mind i would like to say my opinion and some short thoughts about this interesting and perhaps important issue, if not for all people but maybe for some. If we go from premise how God is perfect and self sufficient in all things, than we maybe may take this strong and clear view, you said, as final thing, and stop right there. That reaction, of course, would not erase possibility to ask some questions. Or at least One question which will Shake this sort of idea you presented. What is that question? You can find this, not only interesting question, but in fact crucial, life important question, in God's command, request. This was expressed in verses: “Hear, O Israel: [a]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. - Deuteronomy book Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. - Mathew book If you put attention on Jew Law you will notice how Law said, among many other things that are OBLIGATIONS, Love is something that a person feels morally or legally forced to do! Imagine, God command you to love him! I ask you and anyone else: Can you love somebody, anyone on command???!! On one side, this same God give you free will, and filled you with various emotions. You have Mind and have freedom to choose and God respect your choice. Does Emotions have not that same freedom? As next argument in, for, this same issue we find this Bible statement: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. - Genesis book People would agree in interpretation how this means that God transferred His attributes to humans. Among them is Love. Humans imitate, expressed God's attributes in their life. Love and hate, creating and destroying, smiling and crying and so on. While doing this, humans also have Big Need to Be Loved. If they are Not Loved things coming to be bad, behavior changes, interactions are problematic and other things are happens. In this period when there is Lack of Love, when is Time Without Love, in both direction, no matter is it problem that You Do Not Give Love or Other Don't Give Their Love, YOU/WE FEEL UNHAPPY. Well, because all this i think that you missed to see some things, when you gave unmistakable stated view about significance/importance of Love - Humans - God connections, interactions, interdependence.

As i can recall, publications gave few different ideas about this in my life time.

Who said that you are not??? :))

Because i am one of those who are in opposition to WTJWORG ideology (officially from 2015), do you sure about your conclusion how @JW Insider skillfully deceived me to to join him in the same job? :))) I have never met JW Insider before this Forum, and we are not in any sort of conspiracy. :))) But, I am gladly to met him and some other participants who gave comments here.

This is good :)) ..... But if someone want to be very independent free will human , than he must go by his own path :)) even in wrong direction.

Wrong Billy! You changed thesis! I am sure that you also know, that it is not about issue of Transferring Perfection in question but about Transferring Authority! After, later it came to the idea that such Authority means Infallibility.

@Outta Here 1st quote How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err? This is the question here. As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired. This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress. **** my green color @Ou tta 2nd quote ??? I think I said that Jehovah is happy with the overall progress of His purpose and that will always govern in what He chooses to intervene. In other words, as He always has the successful outcome of His purpose in view, He is always happy with what He allows. Of course the negative aspects and consequences of human behaviour do not make Him happy (compare Ps.119:136). Surely you know that??? He will indeed intervene in the affairs of all mankind soon. The outcome of that intervention will make him happier still, although there are some who feel otherwise. **** my green color my response: Are you serious? Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma? Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :)) your response on this part: Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma? You are referring to the nature of Jehovah's happines here I think? If that is the case then I don't apply it in such a narrrow context. :))))) now is time for real time :))))) Somehow You start to involve wording, Nature of JHVH happiness, in question i put. I don't now why. Because you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness). Even more, you go further and gave idea how there is gradation in this emotional state of God (happy - happier) :))) So, Who is that guy who talking about God's Nature? You or Me? :)) You made it clear that you talking about 2 different progress that is going on, and about 2 reasons for God's happiness. And how god's happiness is also visible because, supposed progress, taking place . Perhaps His happiness about this two things is VISIBLE only TO You. :))) and to WTJWORG. God is Happy with current progress ( here you talking about progress inside WTJWORG). God is happy with the overall progress of His purpose (here you talking, i guess, from Adam and Eve to nowadays) Somehow you entered in God's Mind and Emotions (aka God's Nature) and made inspection, insight of His Will, and then came before all of us here with comment even statement how God is satisfied with this 2 particular things. - to laugh or to cry, question is now - First of all, you made connection between WTJWORG activity, you called that PROGRESS with one EMOTIONAL STATE of JHVH Nature, aka happiness. This connection you have produced, was been reason for my next response i made to you: In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :))  I hope how this retrospective is helpful for our conversation :))))) stay well!

I have no custom to offer Bible verses as for reason to support my opinions, but for those who Respect Bible above WTJWORG: Psalm 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Job 34:12 Of a truth, God will not do wickedly, and the Almighty will not pervert justice. Psalm 25:5 Lead me in your truth and teach me Psalm 86:11 Teach me your way, O LORD, that I may walk in your truth; John 8:31-32 … So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; WT magazine: Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food". TRUTH = PERFECT First and Last thing what JW's need, must have in Mind, to reevaluate; JHVH/JESUS is Source and He Produced Truthful, Perfect and Healthy Spiritual Food .... NOT GB from WTJWORG. If by any chance GB want to apply on themselves illustration from Matthew about servant who sharing food, (Sharing, NOT Grow, NOT Produce, Not Cooke) than the best thing for them would be to continue with printing the Bible, and only Bible. :)))

Nooooo, that is implication resulted, arise from your sentence. :)))))

@JOHN BUTLER Idea is not just "stupid" but also impossible. Read again last sentence conclusion that @Anna made by quoting WT magazine. In an effort to protect their intellectual and copyright law (ahahaha) and to blur the vision of the reader or the believer / follower, to justifies all past and future failure in any, any matter they reached for The Words that Jesus never said, according to Bible, OT or NT scriptures !!!!! Another funny idea can be filtered from the way they made explanation; Jesus did not tell us. From this we can make funny conclusion, but who knows, maybe editor of article truly believes in possibility that Jesus somehow told them with some Voice from Heaven, in a Dream, before this edition of WT magazine went to printing; I never told you and never promised you that i will supplied you with perfect spiritual food! Today's WT study (Nov 2016) p.15 par.9: "Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food. Since 1919, the glorified Jesus Christ has been using that slave to help his followers understand God’s own Book and heed its directives.’" And WT Feb.2017 p.26. par.12 " The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870". It seems that the key to making sense of these 2 seemingly opposing quotes is in the above paragraph if we continue reading: " Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food".

I don't know nothing about nature of JHVH (and his happiness). What i think i know maybe is wrong or insufficient. I am not sure how your view about God's nature is correct. Because you said, He is always happy with what He allows. B1 [ T ] to give permission for someone to do something, or to not prevent something from happening: [ + that ] formal to admit or agree that something is true: to let someone do something or let something happen; permit: to make it possible for something to be done or to happen: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/allow In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :))

Ahh, i see clearly now, i figured out .... difference between "be inspired" and "spirit guided" :))))) Another prophetic words for less publications in recent years. But again have to ask, what Bible verse said; "not ALL the time"? :))) ....... similar with WTJWORG statement: "Jesus not promised perfect food" ?? :)) Looking for Literal interpretations about illustration.

If people follow such teachings and kill themselves, it is loss of their own lives and wasted effort. But when people, as in example you gave with Uriah, successfully implement to kill somebody (spiritual or literal dead) because of teaching aka instruction from some men ...... than is not enough to make just intellectual disagreement and do a job.... but refuse to do so.

I think this is strange feeling. ........In your heart....or in god's.

In my amateur opinion: two expressions with the same meaning :)))) Are you serious? Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma? Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))

This is one general claim that can be/need to be used in the system, of all kind. If i may say, it seems that JW religion is one Socio-Religious International Experiment. And as such, with promises made by imperfect and erroneous leaders, promises in the name of God/Jesus, they offer leadership with warning (warning clearly made from 2017 - not before and not on a day of your baptismal promises, after long decades of "perfect meals" they were bringing to table) how "Jesus not promised perfect food". /WHAT VERSES in Bible CARRYING THIS JESUS PROMISE ABOUT NOT PROMISE? Again we see, they changed rhetoric. And again, this was done in Jesus name.

Just thought. To see something, about something, connected to this "Jew group" (in spiritual or literal way) we need, i suppose, opening/overture of observer mind (observer who know what he is searching, looking for, or we can talk also perhaps about some ignorant person, who is, because of divine power will, in position to see important thing, despite his position) by divine power. Divine power, i guess, is holy spirit, who make it possible that some person can see something. In such situation we can talk about "inspiration from above", and a harmonized action and interaction of "two earthly elements - observer and Jew", under influence of/from Heaven. Here we can see some literal, physical products/fruits of, as Bible explains, holy spirit. Does observer of this fruits need to be inspired (in other words, does god need to open his eyes) to be able to see fruits? Or, natural state of mind and heart is precondition to recognize (or to not recognize) the Jew who produce such fruits as prove that he is this sort of Jew? Do they (JW members or other believers) consider themselves as "fishes" who are already chosen as good fishes, because they found and hold of true Jew hem? Or this separation, made by angels, is applied for all fishes, because net is one, and it was throwing, had thrown, will be throwing on all?

JW Congregations do not have "City Gates". (JW's are spiritual nomads, wandering for green grass, living under tents, not in the cities) :)) For that reason God allowed that some trials, judging and revelations/expose are/was happen/ed under ................Worldly City Gates.

You concluded how Pope's motive was bad. Still we have open question: Do you need to be inspired (or motivated) by God in collecting holy manuscripts/copies and in decision to make Holy Book with this collection?

Believers will accept the claim that the writers and books (later collected in the Bible) were inspired by God. The question is: Are people who collected the old records of these letters and books, were inspired for this work of gathering/collecting ?? Did they need to be inspire for this collecting?? Next question is: People said that Roman Catholic Pope was made decision what will be gathered and put in one book, the Bible. Did he been inspired by god while did it? Third question is: Did they found all letters and writings? What is with other writings that pope did not want to put in Bible? Are those writings uninspired? Fourth question is? Do JW feel how "new scriptures, new instructions" they expect to receive, is in future, after Armageddon? Or it would be possible for such records to appear at this time? If this will be in future, do they feel how such new writings will be made by inspired individuals or group? And how will/would this individuals or group to prove that they are inspired? (According to GB self claim, they are not inspired. So, by this, we can conclude how such new writings and instructions are not possible to have today. And because, supposedly, they will go to heaven before Armageddon, in the New World some other people, Not Them as Anointed Channel, will make/write new instructions. But that is OK, because error and uninspired instructions can be written by other people, too, not only by GB).

Voice from heaven? I do not think even the greatest believer among JW would expect a voice from heaven. :)) It is out of sense to even have a little thought/idea about such possibility. Of, course some of WT magazine editors and members maybe have such idea, and send spiritual vibrations to readers, how JHVH somehow whispering to writers of WT publication, what to put in columns. Reputation. That is of course very important. Jericho citizens also heard about Israel reputation. How they are successful warriors and destroying all on their way. In this case fear about own life was motivated non-Jew tribes to take military reputation of Israel in consideration. Reputation of modern Congregation in this last two century, showed some results that worldly people take as important. On other hand, WTJWORG preoccupation about own reputation bring on light many issues of not transparency and even hiding of things that is bad. PR through publishers and publication want to show only "bright side" of WT Organizations/Corporations and JW religion. Not talking openly about "taboo issues" and negativity of Instructional and Doctrinal rules, beliefs not bring to positive reputation.

I found this interesting: They heard. They heard, question is From Whom? Hear and say? This same "Jew" aka GB are those who made self claim about their appointed position in 1919 and they told this to the people who joined them in this belief and in other various beliefs. In Parallel time/moment this "joined" people (later called great crowed) went to the streets to actively inform other people, worldly people and told them how they know this particular "Jews" who are baked by god himself and ask them to join in Proclamation about this. Well, impetus about WHO are JEWS, was made/generated by "self" appointed Bible Students in 1919. The Word; "God is with you" is not came by god's revelation to worldly people who later join the organization. No, the words came from Not Inspired, Doctrinal and Instructional Error Prone source.

Prior to 2017, spiritual food from WTJWORG has been put on table: - as food in proper time - twice a month - as nutritious - as various food - as healthy food After 9/11 for WT, i mean 2/17, WTJWORG spiritual food: - coming on table 3 times a year and is reduced/ less quantity - is of questionable quality - in some moments it is dangerous for stomach

I noticed that you skipped/avoided to use one Old, Good, Bible based word - "inspired". "Led" is also good Bible word in connection with JHVH and spirit. But what is wrong in using word "inspired" in connection with our decisions and works in religious/spiritual matters? Motivated as word, looks, seems to be more in connection with our own autonomy and free choice.

@BillyTheKid46 and @TrueTomHarley I am glad that using and directing/implementing verse from Mathew on GB member, as individual and in wider picture on WTJWORG as Corporation that "support JW religion", made you to react as you did :)) “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. If you find yourself as pro bono advocate of GJ and other, to defend him/them because of Jesus words, than you are on questionable side. I wonder do you doing this on purpose/intentionally despite serious, strong and fatherly advice, message by Jesus? Or you really, really don't see? Supposedly, Jesus Trusts him in Full Measure, as GL explained on JWTV. How than GJ don't trusts Jesus that He made him, GJ, to be The Light for nonbeliever? And as such, "The Light", does he need "worldly people" to show him, to tell him "This is The Way, Walk in it"? :))) Try again to response :))) I guess, Jesus have fun, or crying time, while reading comments that negate his standpoint about what role his followers/disciples should have :))))