Srecko Sostar

4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

JWinsider is skillful in doing that to get opposers to agree with his ideology.

Because i am one of those who are in opposition to WTJWORG ideology (officially from 2015), do you sure about your conclusion how @JW Insider skillfully deceived me to to join him in the same job? :)))

I have never met JW Insider before this Forum, and we are not in any sort of conspiracy. :))) But, I am gladly to met him and some other participants who gave comments here.   

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I'd recommend that before you start claiming that I say things "in order to confuse" just ask others if they were also confused.

This is good  :)) ..... But if someone want to be very independent free will human , than he must go by his own path :)) even in wrong direction.

9 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

To intelligent people, given the atmosphere of other religions, especially the Papacy that States a POPE can make no error. Can that statement be true? When did Jesus transfer his perfection to the Pope? The first Pope according to the Catholic faith was Peter. Okay, then, When did Jesus transfer his perfection to Peter.

Wrong Billy! You changed thesis!

I am sure that you also  know, that it is not about issue of Transferring Perfection in question  but about Transferring Authority! 

After, later it came to the idea that such Authority means Infallibility.  

This is the question here.

As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired. This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress. 

**** my green color

@Ou tta 2nd quote

??? I think I said that Jehovah is happy with the overall progress of His purpose and that will always govern in what He chooses to intervene. In other words, as He always has the successful outcome of His purpose in view, He is always happy with what He allows. Of course the negative aspects and consequences of human behaviour do not make Him happy (compare Ps.119:136). Surely you know that???

He will indeed intervene in the affairs of all mankind soon. The outcome of that intervention will make him happier still, although there are some who feel otherwise.

**** my green color

my response: 

Are you serious?

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))

your response on this part:

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

You are referring to the nature of Jehovah's happines here I think? If that is the case then I don't apply it in such a narrrow context.

 :))))) now is time for real time :)))))

Somehow You start to involve wording, Nature of JHVH happiness, in question i put. I don't now why. Because you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness). Even more, you go further and gave idea how there is gradation in this emotional state of God (happy - happier) :))) So, Who is that guy who talking about God's Nature? You or Me? :))

 You made it clear that you talking about 2 different progress that is going on, and about 2 reasons for God's happiness. And how god's happiness is also visible because, supposed progress, taking place . Perhaps His happiness about this two things is VISIBLE only TO You. :)))  and to WTJWORG.

God is Happy with current progress ( here you talking  about progress inside WTJWORG).

God is happy with the overall progress of His purpose (here you talking, i guess, from Adam and Eve to nowadays)   

Somehow you entered in God's Mind and Emotions (aka God's Nature) and made inspection, insight of His Will, and then came before all of us here with comment even statement how God is satisfied with this 2 particular things.  

- to laugh or to cry, question is now - 

First of all, you made connection between WTJWORG activity, you called that PROGRESS with one EMOTIONAL STATE of JHVH Nature, aka happiness. This connection you have produced, was been reason for my next response i made to you:    In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :))  

I hope how this retrospective is helpful for our conversation :))))) stay well!

50 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In an effort to protect their intellectual and copyright law (ahahaha) and to blur the vision of the reader or the believer / follower, to justifies all past and future failure in any, any matter they reached for The Words that Jesus never said, according to Bible, OT or NT scriptures !!!!! 

I have no custom to offer Bible verses as for reason to support my opinions, but for those who Respect Bible above WTJWORG:  

Psalm 119:160 The sum of your word is truth,

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 

Job 34:12 Of a truth, God will not do wickedly, and the Almighty will not pervert justice.

Psalm 25:5 Lead me in your truth and teach me

Psalm 86:11 Teach me your way, O LORD, that I may walk in your truth;

John 8:31-32 … So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you;

WT magazine: Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food". 

TRUTH = PERFECT 

First and Last thing what JW's need, must have in Mind, to reevaluate; JHVH/JESUS is Source and He Produced Truthful, Perfect and Healthy Spiritual Food .... NOT GB from WTJWORG.

If by any chance GB want to apply on themselves illustration from Matthew about servant who sharing food, (Sharing, NOT Grow, NOT Produce, Not Cooke)  than the best thing for them would be to continue with printing the Bible, and only Bible. :)))

8 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

in your implication that God's happiness depends on what humans are "feeling, thinking, speaking and doing", whether right or wrong.

Nooooo, that is implication resulted, arise from your sentence. :))))) 

@JOHN BUTLER

Idea is not just "stupid" but also impossible. Read again last sentence conclusion that @Anna made by quoting WT magazine.

In an effort to protect their intellectual and copyright law (ahahaha) and to blur the vision of the reader or the believer / follower, to justifies all past and future failure in any, any matter they reached for The Words that Jesus never said, according to Bible, OT or NT scriptures !!!!! 

Another funny idea can be filtered from the way they made explanation; Jesus did not tell us. From this we can make funny conclusion, but who knows, maybe editor of article truly believes in possibility that Jesus somehow told them with some Voice from Heaven, in a Dream, before this edition of WT magazine went to printing; I never told you and never promised you that i will supplied you with perfect spiritual food!  

5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

You are referring to the nature of Jehovah's happines here I think?

I don't know nothing about nature of JHVH (and his happiness). What i think i know maybe is wrong or insufficient. I am not sure how your view about God's nature is correct. Because you said, He is always happy with what He allows. 

B1 [ T ] to give permission for someone to do something, or to not prevent something from happening:

[ + that ] formal to admit or agree that something is true:

to let someone do something or let something happen; permit:

to make it possible for something to be done or to happen:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/allow

In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :)) 

On 6/7/2019 at 12:09 AM, Outta Here said:

Most of the direction is left for the brothers to figure out what is best in accord with Bible principles. 

Ahh, i see clearly now, i figured out .... difference between "be inspired" and "spirit guided" :)))))

On 6/7/2019 at 12:09 AM, Outta Here said:

The scripture says food is provided at the proper time, not ALL the time.

Another prophetic words for less publications in recent years.

But again have to ask, what Bible verse said; "not ALL the time"? :))) 

....... similar with WTJWORG statement: "Jesus not promised perfect food" ?? :))

Looking for Literal interpretations about illustration.

On 2/6/2017 at 9:34 PM, ComfortMyPeople said:

I follow these teachings, of course, but, please, don’t force me to always agree with them!

If people follow such teachings and kill themselves, it is loss of their own lives and wasted effort.

But when people, as in example you gave with Uriah, successfully implement to kill somebody (spiritual or literal dead) because of teaching aka instruction from some men ...... than is not enough to make just intellectual disagreement and do a job.... but refuse to do so. 

On 2/1/2017 at 9:30 PM, Outta Here said:

He is always happy with what He allows.

I think this is strange feeling.

........In your heart....or in god's.

On 2/1/2017 at 1:41 AM, Outta Here said:

As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired.

In my amateur opinion: two expressions with the same meaning :))))

On 2/1/2017 at 1:41 AM, Outta Here said:

In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress.

Are you serious?

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

So, with that said, I think one way of looking at the overall picture is to see these men in the position of keeping order.

This is one general claim that can be/need to be  used  in the system, of all kind.

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

Taking a stand means that we will sometimes discover we took the wrong stand, but it also has an advantage in making our beliefs transparent. If a doctrinal stand is taken, our thinking is clearer on it, and contradictions show up more easily. It would be easy to be 100% accurate by taking a less dogmatic stand on many things. But this makes it harder to test whether we are thinking correctly and reasonably on some of our beliefs.

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

Sometimes you get to a point where you just need to take a stand and say that John must be in a blue house, for example, even if you don't know for sure, so that you can properly test if it works.

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

o, we can have doctrinal claims that are still in the middle of such testing. We took a stand, and it clarifies our position so that it can be more clearly tested.

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

f we (as an organization) take a stand, it should be faster to get to a point where we can take a consistent stand on all important matters of doctrine and teaching. This assumes that haughtiness and love of tradition don't get in the way of change. And that gets back to having the right kinds of personalities taking the lead.

If i may say, it seems that JW religion is one Socio-Religious International Experiment. 

And as such, with promises made by imperfect and erroneous leaders, promises in the name of God/Jesus, they offer leadership with warning (warning clearly made from 2017 - not before and not on a day of your baptismal promises, after long decades of "perfect meals" they were bringing to table) how "Jesus not promised perfect food". /WHAT VERSES in Bible CARRYING THIS JESUS PROMISE ABOUT NOT PROMISE?

Again we see, they changed rhetoric. And again, this was done in Jesus name.

On 6/6/2019 at 3:26 PM, JW Insider said:

.....an idea probably also partly based on the fact that no group of anointed has yet become so obvious in our day that '10 men are taking hold of them' because they can see that God is with them.

Just thought. To see something, about something, connected to this "Jew group" (in spiritual or literal way) we need, i suppose, opening/overture of observer mind (observer who know what he is searching, looking for, or we can talk also perhaps about some ignorant person, who is, because of divine power will, in position to see important thing, despite his position) by divine power.

Divine power, i guess, is holy spirit, who make it possible that some person can see something. In such situation  we can talk about "inspiration from above", and a harmonized action and interaction of "two earthly elements - observer and Jew", under influence of/from Heaven. 

On 6/6/2019 at 3:26 PM, JW Insider said:

Also, just my opinion, but I don't think we need anything except to keep our eyes open and see the works of various Christian brotherhoods to know whether or not Jehovah's spirit is acting upon them. By their works you will recognize them. It's not that works result in our salvation, but that the "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, etc., etc." If our hearts desire Christian association with loving, peaceful, patient persons, we would find such ones to associate with. The nuances of doctrine (like "who is the Jew with the 10 men at his robes?") is completely unimportant. But a doctrine of peace that results in them not going to war with each other would seem quite important. Personally, I would not wait for a group that explains Scripture better than the next group. That has always just been a "sub-religion" much like the philosophies of the Greeks that they thought was real wisdom.

Here we can see some literal, physical products/fruits of, as Bible explains, holy spirit. Does observer of this fruits need to be inspired (in other words, does god need to open his eyes) to be able to see fruits? Or, natural state of mind and heart is precondition to recognize (or to not recognize) the Jew who produce such fruits as prove that he is this sort of Jew?

Do they (JW members or other believers) consider themselves as "fishes" who are already chosen as good fishes, because they found and hold of true Jew hem? Or this separation, made by angels, is applied for all fishes, because net is one, and it was throwing, had thrown, will be throwing on all? 

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

and I think that everything that's wrong should actually be exposed in the city gates

JW Congregations do not have "City Gates". (JW's are spiritual nomads, wandering for green grass, living under tents, not in the cities) :))

For that reason God allowed that some trials, judging and revelations/expose are/was happen/ed under ................Worldly City Gates.

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This would depend on the motive of a person.

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Papacy decided to use scripture as a tool, not as an inspiration for devotion. They decided to exalt themselves rather than God.

You concluded how Pope's motive was bad. Still we have open question: Do you need to be inspired (or motivated) by God in collecting holy manuscripts/copies and in decision to make Holy Book with this collection?

Believers will accept the claim that the writers and books (later collected in the Bible) were inspired by God.

The question is: Are people who collected the old records of these letters and books, were inspired for this work of gathering/collecting ?? Did they need to be inspire for this collecting?? 

Next question is: People said that Roman Catholic Pope was made decision what will be gathered and put in one book, the Bible. Did he been inspired by god while did it? 

Third question is: Did they found all letters and writings? What is with other writings that pope did not want to put in Bible? Are those writings uninspired?

Fourth question is? Do JW feel how "new scriptures, new instructions" they expect to receive, is in future, after Armageddon? Or  it would be possible for such records to appear at this time? If this will be in future, do they feel how such new writings will be made by inspired individuals or group? And how will/would this individuals or group to prove that they are inspired? (According to GB self claim, they are not inspired. So, by this, we can conclude how such new writings and instructions are not possible to have today. And because, supposedly,  they will go to heaven before Armageddon, in the New World some other people, Not Them as Anointed Channel, will make/write new instructions. But that is OK, because error and uninspired instructions can be written by other people, too, not only by GB). 

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

There was evidently no voice booming from heaven in the original context. I get the sense that it was by reputation. Not even that the nation of Israel was out there trying to make proselytes (converts) but that it was by reputation people were hearing good things about Israel.

Voice from heaven? I do not think even the greatest believer among JW would expect a voice from heaven. :)) It is out of sense to even have a little thought/idea about such possibility. Of, course some of WT magazine editors and members maybe have such idea, and send spiritual vibrations to readers, how JHVH somehow whispering  to writers of WT publication, what to put in columns. 

Reputation. That is of course very important. Jericho citizens also heard about Israel reputation. How they are successful warriors and destroying all on their way. In this case fear about own life was motivated non-Jew tribes to take military reputation of Israel in consideration. 

Reputation of modern Congregation in this last two century, showed some results that worldly people take as important. On other hand,  WTJWORG preoccupation about own reputation bring on light many issues of not transparency and even hiding of things that is bad.

PR through publishers and publication want to show only "bright side" of WT Organizations/Corporations and JW religion. Not talking openly about "taboo issues" and negativity of Instructional and Doctrinal rules, beliefs not bring to positive reputation.  

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

They tell the Jew: “We will go with you people, for we have heard that God is with you people.”

I found this interesting: They heard. They heard, question is From Whom? Hear and say? 

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

So, while the "Jew" represents the anointed class, we are subtly reminded that the anointed class is represented by the Governing Body, considered to be the core representatives of "Christ's brothers."

This same "Jew" aka GB are those who made self claim about their appointed position in 1919 and they told this to the people who joined them in this belief and in other various beliefs.

In Parallel time/moment this "joined" people (later called great crowed) went to the streets to actively inform other people, worldly people and told them how they know this particular "Jews" who are baked by god himself and ask them to join in Proclamation about this.

Well, impetus about WHO are JEWS, was made/generated by "self" appointed Bible Students in 1919. The Word; "God is with you" is not came by god's revelation to worldly people who later join the organization. No, the words came from Not Inspired, Doctrinal and Instructional Error Prone source.    

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

February 2017 Watchtower.

Prior to 2017, spiritual food from WTJWORG has been put on table:  

- as food in proper time

- twice a month

- as nutritious

-  as various food

- as healthy food

After 9/11 for WT,  i mean 2/17, WTJWORG spiritual food:

- coming on table 3 times a year and is reduced/ less quantity

- is of questionable quality 

- in some moments it is dangerous for stomach 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

By this he evidently means those who are truly led by the holy spirit, who are truly motivated by the holy spirit, and who therefore give proper guidance and to others.

I noticed that you skipped/avoided to use one Old, Good, Bible based word -  "inspired".  

"Led" is also good Bible word in connection with JHVH and spirit. 

But what is wrong in using word "inspired" in connection with our decisions and works in religious/spiritual matters? 

Motivated as word, looks, seems to be more in connection with our own autonomy and free choice.  

@BillyTheKid46  and @TrueTomHarley  

I am glad that using and directing/implementing verse from Mathew on GB member, as individual and in wider picture on WTJWORG as Corporation that "support JW religion", made you to react as you did :))  

“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. ¹⁵ Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. ¹⁶ In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

If you find yourself as pro bono advocate of GJ and other, to defend him/them because of Jesus words, than you are on questionable side. I wonder do you doing this on purpose/intentionally despite serious, strong and fatherly advice, message by Jesus? Or you really, really don't see?

Supposedly, Jesus Trusts him in Full Measure, as GL explained on JWTV.  How than GJ don't trusts Jesus that He made him, GJ, to be The Light for nonbeliever? And as such, "The Light", does he need "worldly people" to show him, to tell him "This is The Way, Walk in it"? :)))

Try again to response :))) I guess, Jesus have fun, or crying time, while reading comments that negate his standpoint about what role his followers/disciples should have :))))  

12 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

What irritates me the most ... really burns my overweight butt ... is that the Secular Authorities HAVE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND.

Perhaps  because Secular Authorities doing JHVH will (maybe not always but still sometimes). Romans 13 explained this in preamble.   

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

why do you believe the Watchtower should go beyond that of the government, that isn't willing to

Why? You ask why?!!! I am sure how you will recall why, if somebody say - Because all of you who are PROUD to call yourself JW's aka Christians  - need to be LIGHT of The World.

¹⁴ “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. ¹⁵ Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. ¹⁶ In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

Please reconsider again, in the LIGHT of verse above, how Funny, Spiritually Immature and Unscriptural is Lawyers words through the mouth of GB FDS individual !! 

On 6/1/2019 at 2:20 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Geoffrey Jackson of the Witness Governing Body three times pleaded for such a consistent mandate across all territories before the Australian Royal Commission to Institutional Responses into Child Sexual Abuse mentioned above. When it was his turn to testify, he said:³⁷

1. Jackson: “Thank you for the opportunity to explain this. I think very clearly Mr. Toole pointed out that if the Australian Government, in all the States, was to make mandatory reporting, it would make it so much easier for us.” …

Read Again:

.. if the Australian Government, in all the States, was to make mandatory reporting, it would make it so much easier for us.

NOTHING about LIGHT FROM ABOVE, but about - Make It Easier For Us.   :(( ... shame to them.

18 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

comparing

I think, comparison is often a method that can have some negative and positive consequences. When we compare something, we do it for reasons to choose what is better and what is less good to reject. Understandably, of course. But we see that the next thing can happen, after we have chosen the thing that once was better than others, we later see that it has its disadvantages that we do not like. 

In the case of JW religion, we (or I myself) who came out of the organization did not compare JW religion with another religion and then converted to another faith to become their believers. In fact, we compared the organization with the standards that the same organization placed itself. These standards are; God, the Bible, Jesus' doctrine. Principles of truthfulness and honesty as a commonly accepted value, too. So, we had strong reasons to put WTJWORG under the magnifying glass. Comparing an one imperfect religion to another imperfect religion has no significance and purpose as it may seem at first glance.

Comparing people within a one system is also inadequate. If everyone is doing the best they can, then comparing is actually the wrong measurement of human efforts and achievements.
You may also feel that some assembly is once considered better than another. You've heard perhaps the elders of a congregation think or even argue that the brothers in their assembly are without some disadvantages, that brothers in another assembly have. 

To compare, how one is pioneer and one is not, and ask why, how he /she cannot because he/she can according to our opinion .... and so on.

In general, making comparison is difficult and controversial job. :))