Srecko Sostar

On 6/1/2019 at 12:24 AM, Shiwiii said:

Remember that this was only an option because of those whom established this country. Without those freedoms, then those jws you mentioned would have nothing. 

Exactly. Imagine "Legal Battle" between Lawyers Team of Israeli slaves and Pharaoh's Lawyers ? :))

Of course, do not imagine. Read report about Moses who came before Pharaoh and ask him to let go slaves live the Egypt. Moses = attorney. Slaves = party to the proceedings.

Intellectual reasoning was insufficient. Next step was application of force in several phases and of different intensity. Justified? Don't know.

But Bible report said how many people (including Egyptians) sold themselves for bread. And which idea that was? Joseph's idea as Prime minister for Pharaoh. Well, it seems how he has established or strengthened the existing ones, slave system, in Egypt. His father and brothers (68 who came from Canaan in Egypt) left own land because of famine. And they said to Pharaoh how they will stay in Egypt for short time. But they stay much longer, Even after famine has stopped (few years) they not went back. Only to buried their father Jacob. 

I suppose how not only Joseph, but also all his  brothers and their families, have much privileges in Egypt. And it is possible how they have own slaves for themselves. Question is, why they not went back to Canaan after famine has stooped? They were very wealthy before and they get to be more wealthy in their stay in Egypt. Their father Jacob lived  last 17 years in Egypt before he died (famine lasted 7 years). 

Justified wars? Justified slavery? Justified wealthy? .......etc ????? :))) All these and many more are misconceptions. Misconceptions that we creating and we destroying. Always over again.

@Foreigner I am glad to see you again with your only possible and unique way of argumentation and communication ... down votes :)))

6 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If you were listening to me, I would have included myself.

On which list would be your name ? :)) Which other names would be with your?

For various legal, human rights, many people have fought. JW people, minority national or racial communities, LGBT community and others.

True, some individuals paid a high price for their rights. But I think that JW people because of their pacifist attitude can have "struggle" for their rights only intellectually.

If millions of "infidels" or false Christians did not shed blood in wars (WW 1 and 2) against established systems or nazism and other dictatorships, intellectual and passive resistance would not yield some results (or it would, but on some day in far future after global Natural Catastrophe or Alien visitation). 

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The fact you have been paying attention to the likes of Anna, James, JWinsider, John, Tom, and witness confirms

Thanks for warning me about names of dangerous elements in this forum. 

So, you would like that i pay my attention to Billy? Because his name is not on your list?!

:))

23 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Wars were justified under theocracy when the Israelites were told to conquer the Canaanites and take the land he gave their forefathers.

I think that the wars of the first Israel were wars for the land, territory.

But let us recall on some important details i have found before some 20 years ago when faced with this historical reports in Bible. Abraham, a forefather of the future nation of Israel, was extremely wealthy and gained possession over large areas of land. But as time passed, there have been several things. That land that Abraham acquired or bought during his life, and legally left to his successors/heirs after his death, somehow was went to, passed on other individuals, families, people, tribes, and nations.

Please recall, for example, how he bought land for grave , for his wife. I can imagine how that was not some small piece of land, but huge territory. After long time, we saw how his tribe and grandsons moved to Egypt and left or sold territory. But we also must think about how many people in time of Great Famine sold possessions they have for food. Well, many people gave "money", sold animals, gold, silver, houses, sold land, territory and finally themselves to Pharaoh ( and Joseph) for food. Such sale was "legitimate" and many lost their property under these circumstances. 
I suppose how some part of the territory or perhaps all that land that once belonged to Abraham,  Israel slaves want back, in this way or that way, because they consider themselves as  "legitimate" heirs.  But, because that land has been in the possession of others for several hundred years already, question was: how to return land back to them? Only by war and conquest.

Issue of religion, worshiping and gods has been of second importance, or another good reason/motivation why to go to war. Fighting for "Freedom" and  for "Homeland" and for "Own People" was always powerful force that leads people. 

7 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Is this what you mean? 

"Promjene koje se tiču ove teme pojavile su se i nestale u WTJWORG-u i ukazuju da JW-ovi znanstvenici lutaju u magli. Zapravo, interpretacije "generacije" prilagođavaju drugim nesigurnim, upitnim tezama."

Yes, it is. Please send this sentence in English, so that i can compare it once again ... with "my English" :)). 

12 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

You lost me here. Are you saying, the first part of the passage means "nothing" even though Jesus is being quoted? If Jesus words are true, why do you think, the first sentence means nothing? I can understand, it would mean nothing to those that "don't" understand the first passage of the Fig Tree. But to understand it outright as nothing is confusing. Please explain?

I think it would help if i tell my opinion how Jesus want to express very strong illustrative argument, assurance how his words will be fulfilled Even IF all Milky Way would blow up in explosion :)))

Hyperbola. To enhance the effect and leave an impression on the listener.

How so? Because some Bible verses say how Earth was created to stay forever. Again, one problem more we have in here too. In Bible, word "forever" not carry always the meaning of "never ending, eternity".  

This is not clarification. This is more stuff to confuse us more :)))

JHVH said: Earth will last forever

Jesus said: Earth will gone

To Who do you believe?   

OR.... what sort of Earth will last and what sort will perished? Literal or figurative destruction? ... and so on.

25 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What do you think heaven and earth will pass to mean.

So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until allthese things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

That means "nothing", or to say, this words perhaps haven't meaning some people want it to have. Point is that Jesus' words are so sure and truthful.  

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Since all these parables are explained in the context of working for kingdom interests

.... we agree, these are parables ......and NOT ticket for WTJWORG to enter in various financial schemes (with members money).  .... only if members gave them their written consent for such activity, job that is no more religious/charity activity but money making activity.   

16 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Jesus acknowledged the bankers' work (and the methods they use to get interest). If the bankers gamble with your money (in the stock market  - every single bank [international development bank and commercial bank] has a department that invests in stocks) and make interest you don't usually complain and ask how the interest was made and wherein they invested your money.  You put out your hand and take the interest.

Yes Melinda, you say well. But me or you as private person, individuals put our own money we earned with our hard labor. WTJWORG put other people money without their consent and will and with any, no chance to give them back interest/gain/profit of such investing.  :))

8 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Your interpretations seem to mainly centre on the use of unscriptural acronyms and second guesses about what others believe or used to believe. Why not shed some light on the subject under discussion?

Thanks. 

So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until allthese things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Many people would agree how those things Jesus was told to his disciples and described in chapter 24 was happened in 1 century.

Problem arise if we want to see another fulfillment, again, ..... second .... or third or fourth? I haven't "light" that would be able to explain yours or other people expectations about some second fulfillment. I am not inspired, guided or motivated. I can err in explanations :))  

Thing that i can do is to ask questions, to examine ideas and doctrines about issue, and to reevaluate results. The changes that are about this topic arose and disappeared in WTJWORG indicates that JW scholars wander in the fog. In fact, they adapt the interpretations of the "generation" to other insecure, questionable theses.

6 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

(Matthew 25:24-27) 24 “Finally the slave who had received the one talent came forward and said: ‘Master, I knew you to be a demanding man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25 So I grew afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him: ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest.

Here we have confusion about Bible verses and meaning. Can we conclude from Jesus' words that He supported the financial and economic system of the Jewish and Roman Monetary System?

Parables and Illustrations or Verbatim Advice what do do with Money? :)))

What is Spiritual and what is Literal? What is Story Lesson?  

"...you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow?"  - Is this Jesus, Master you want as King? 

6 hours ago, Outta Here said:

We can safely say what Jesus said

Yeah ......and after we repeat something he was said, from Bible, we continue with our safe interpretation of meaning :)))

@TrueTomHarley

Everyone walking in the mud has muddy shoes 

53 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Anyone who has any money at all must park it somewhere

Some Experienced people puts money in a STOCKS     :)))))))

21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It is typical in recent lawsuits to treat all Watchtower-related corporate entities as merely "advisors" in support of Jehovah's Witnesses or "the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses." In a larger sense these advisors provide logistical support for assemblies, meetings, property ownership, donation and financial management, preaching, research, writing, printing, and distribution of religious media. Similarly, the Governing Body are also treated as another "entity" of advisors for spiritual guidance that supports the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Are they, all this different entities and advisors in the one and same "channel of communication" ? Because GB doctrine teach that existing Only One Channel of Communication in mediating, of what is god's word and will, between god and JW members? 

All Lawyers, who working in all this various entities and corporations, to support religion of JW, have successfully produced a network of wells and channels by which water goes in all directions and from many sources.
Can such water be safe for drinking?

30 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well.....if you insist upon going there, then you must also include Pharoah’s daughter, who went down to the Nile bank and withdrew a small prophet.

Oh Tom, I do not insist on anything here :)))

7 hours ago, Outta Here said:

The only two things we can safely say about  "this generation" (the contentious one) is that:

1.  It will pass.

2.  At a day and hour which no man knows.

 

A little observation about this comment. WE can't say NOTHING THAT IS SAFELY about  "generation". 

POINT 1. and POINT 2.  are paraphrased words said by Jesus. He has been in safe position while talking about the issue. 

All other people who latter want to tell something about, to make comment about "generation" found themselves on very slippery and insecure place.  Because they were trying to interpret the meaning.

:))  and of the constant mantra or repetition of the sentences given by someone (in this case Jesus's words) no one has any use/benefit.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But the basic idea

Should/could this sort of worldly basic idea be possible to find in this spiritual advice: "Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." 

If yes, perhaps Jesus was not only spiritual Teacher but also successful Wall Street Investment Advisor?

19 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Romans 1:20

"... so that people are without excuse."

I suppose that you agree with posibility how WTJWORG individuals are also included in this group of those who are Not Excused, because of Mandatory Doctrines that was/are put on people by JW Leaders? 

19 hours ago, Outta Here said:

This is just a non-argument. Lots of the Bible was written specifically for groups, even individuals. That is not a basis for concluding that no one else is allowed to read from or will not benefit from it. This is ABC stuff. 2Tim.3:16.

I did not give  Pseudo-arguments when mentioned how Class of, literal  number, 144000 is separate from other JW members, and how exists idea that Bible or NT as Part of Bible is just or only for them. Such idea has grown  inside Organization before we were born.

And i did not said Nothing about Who is or Who is Not Allowed to Read The Book. :)) I did NOT offer any Basis for Concluding something in that way. 

I just made comment about WTJWORG idea that IF Bible or Part of Bible is addressed Only to Specific Class of People, than we can conclude how Only Such Class have Special Obligation to Text and Message in Text. Other people have not if they don't want. Perhaps those other people, who are not members of Class, fall under different Measures, Rules than 144000. Let say, they fall under Natural Conscience as God's Prime Law written in First Human. Or, they fall only under TWO Main, Ultimate Laws - Love God and Love people! :))  

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Does a person have to be first Gruntled, before they can be disgruntled?

I think how in  such matter,  order or sequence not existing. It appears randomly :))) and alternately. 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If we accept that the Bible is God’s prime method of communication to humans

If we accept ...... OK ..... and if we do not accept or we are unable to read, to get Bible, etc  ..... then what? ... does god have problem how to make communication with such person ??? Obviously Not, because you stated that Bible is Prime Method. If it is Prime than it is Not Only Method. :)))

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Much of the New Testament, not only is not lecture, but is ostensibly not even written for us

This is also interesting and almost contradict  idea in WTJWORG. As first, they teaching people how Bible is God's Letter for All People. In second step, in WTJWORG exists explanation that Bible (or some parts as you explained) is written for, primarily for, or only for special Class aka 144000 aka FDS aka GB (because last interpretation is, that FDS is GB and GB is FDS) By that only GB need to read Bible because God was send to them his word, not to some second class people. :))))

51 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Watchtower produces simplified versions of material already written simple so as to reach them. 

You wrote interesting things in comment.  

Apologize for my going this way  but that is what exJW doing as mandatory task :)))

Simplified editions of text in WTJWORG publications is normal result and normal need, not just for poorly educated secular people, but because  WTJWORG advises only few years of standard, basic education for JW members as something that is ALL they need in this World without Future. If this trend of Organization  come to be More Successful in future period of time, they would only have to organizing some simple seminars about how to using smartphones and tablets for meetings and field service with simple cartoons and simplified text for study.    

I see that you not supporting this trend in Organization, but that is how it is :)))

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As @BillyTheKid46 has pointed out, the term "governing body" had already been used prior to 1971, and it was usually used in the sense that certain types of corporations used the term. In fact, for the Watchtower Society it was primarily used to refer to the "legal" leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses through the legal entity of the Society itself.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

*** yb70 p. 65 1970 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses ***
So really the governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses is the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, all of whom are dedicated to Jehovah God and anointed by his holy spirit.

Merge, compose, amalgam.

How from secular terminology about Corporation policy and Management comes to Spiritual meaning for followers, covered with Interpretations  about meaning of some Bible verses.