On 5/5/2019 at 9:47 PM, Jack Ryan said:

The main change is this:
Old : ... identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?

New: ...identifies you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with Jehovah's organization?

This is a really strange move. They are moving away from saying that they are "spirit-directed by God" to simply stating that they are "Jehovah's organization..."

I just went trough some bible verses with word - baptize, baptism. Main point why first Jews going in baptism were; confessing, repenting and washing the sins, believing in Jesus, to gain clear conscience, to be saved, to be buried with Jesus, baptism into Jesus and his death, to be disciples for Jesus.

Well, baptism as such is not part of identification process with outcome, goal to be part of some Organization or Corporation, religious or not religious. 

In near future, and changing of baptism questions in WTJWORG is part of that, baptism will stay on folkloric and symbolic manifestation. New members will soon signing a documents as Factual Contract of membership to Corporation. 

 

20 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

However, give me a good example of how the GB are self-imposing and adding a provisional law?

Read, please, WT published material for latest 140 years and you will find examples.... :)) ....even without my help.

7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

When you say Jesus was breaking the laws, which laws are you referring to. God’s laws or the provisional laws set forth by the Pharisees and High Priest.

Which laws JW's have to obey today ? Laws set by GB? Or Jw's need to imitate Jesus and BREAKING provisional Laws set forth by GB?

7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

However, what do you think Jesus meant with “so practice and observe whatever they tell you” to mean?

This was told before cca 2000 years. I suppose how today Jesus would modified a little his words and say:

Do not practice whatever they tell you that you must obey and doing. First you have to check what they are talking about and why. If you are not sure, then come to me and ask me about. I will help you with your questions. For false messiahs and false prophets performing great signs and wonders to deceive".   

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

in what sense was Jesus breaking God's covenant.

my quote: HE was breaking The Law (Old Testament ... and Your's) 

He was breaking The Law, because Anointed Legal Priesthood (similar to WTJWORG GB today) of those time said so ! :)))))   

Elders and Priests, almost all Spiritual Elders and Shepherds of Israel in Jerusalem and in other places where they came in conversation and discussion with Jesus, showed by Their Interpretations of Holy Scriptures, that Jesus was breaking God's Rules and Commands.    

So, to who should/would you believe that speaking the true? To Man from Nazareth? Or to established Priesthood? :)))

To who JWs should/would believe? To some individuals? Or to established GB and Their Interpretations?

  

47 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

When it comes to spirituality, that’s the kind of garbage (unbelievers, unrepentant, bad association, lack of Bible understanding people) Christ warned us to stay away from.

Fantastic mixture you offer in this description. 

It is and it can be true how some of this people would made bad influence on some of us. Well, if we consider how spiritual weak we are/we can be, your advice and reasoning in which you involve Jesus have some reasonable argument to stay away from this sort of bad influence.

BUT than, how to follow Jesus example? HE was braking The Law (Old Testament ... and Your's) and eat and drink and associated with "garbage", .... for entire time of his short life.   ..... ??

15 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I had a Brother call me up at 7:30 in the morning, many years ago, asking in desperate need if I had any money I could lend him.  I checked my resources, and told him I had $4.00, which I was planning to use for lunch money that day, but he was welcome to that.

...... and he hung up on me.

That hamburger at lunch was especially delicious !

This is wide problem, lending/borrow money to brotherhood.

I know at least three cases how JW people not return money to those JW who borrow them money.

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them.

This is very good sentence, from which i read next: 

All and every moment of efforts numbered here (intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer) reveals one side - human efforts, to gain, what? ....these things are combination of preconditions, causes that will, supposedly,  result in spiritual guidance (from above). 

What i see here is, only/solely working (almost fleshly) efforts of particular human who strive to get, to receive something divinely, spiritually from God, by deeds, by work (aka intensive bible study, more preaching, more meetings etc).

What is omitted in this sentence (not by purpose and not from you personally) but by common/general view in WT organization is the role of Second Part in this "equation". Influence and power that depend of that very Person who is The Source of spiritual guidance.   

Pushing made by/from WTJWORG  how person must and have to do this and that and to do it more and more, is something that can be obstacle, dam, close door for Divine Power. Yes, Divine Power destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah or Jericho Walls, BUT it can be very "Powerless" to change human minds and hearts. Because in case of Sodom and Jericho we talking about Naked Power. But when people are involved, this Spirit Force is on Next Level, in my opinion, on level of soft, gently, unobtrusively, discretely actions and effects...... After all, JHVH ask, plead for love by your free will.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You are asking how it can be logical I guess that someone can be right on some things and not on others. I think you probably already know of many examples. Isaac Newton was right on a surprising number of things, but was wrong on some things,

If you don't mind for my interruption in your's conversation. 

Isaac Newton or other similar person hasn't, as i know, created Organization in which people will worship someone or something. Isaac not made GB of self and few friends of him who interpreted Bible or some other Holy Book.

Religious nation as JW members, expecting more from GB than followers of Isaac would expected from him. Isaac was not made statements how he and his friends are only channel for spiritual food. :))

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Just as with Rutherford, I can't see how it "suits themselves." It's because of misinformation that they have believed for the same reason that we have believed it. GB are chosen not because of their ability to question, but because of their "loyalty."

Saul of Tarsus believed in his strong "misinformation", that was based on Scriptures. He was "chosen" by JHVH for two  task. One task was to persecute Jesus's followers. Second task was that to put Saul under power that will change his "suited misinformation" and his wrong, misdirected "loyalty".  

Would Saul became Paul without his "wrong" way of worshiping? In fact, What was wrong with his faith in God when Scriptures teaches him to be zealous for JHVH name and to excommunicate (prosecute and persecute) all Jew who not worship god according to the Law?  

Dear JW Insider. Can i, by some of your perspective, make conclusion, how GB are in same/similar position and how in their "loyalty" and "misinformation zealous" also making forms of "prosecution and persecution" of those who disagree with the GB Law, because they see how their (god's) Organizing and Interpretations of Divine Will is Process of Rowing to the Some More Perfect and Final Point of worshiping god in the future? 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I have heard persons say that they wish they could only hire Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses,

This is interesting. I have some specific personal experience about this. In one period of time i was jobless, and working many jobs including gardening. One day (between 2002-2005 i think) sister Tekla, while working on reception desk in Zagreb Betel received telephone call from one woman (Adventist) who are looking for JW who will gardening (shearing the grass and similar) in her garden. Tekla called me and i made phone call to this Lady and was working there for several seasons. Well, this Adventist woman was show more confident in JW than in her brothers from her congregation :))  (A little self praise and humor  - she was lucky that i was that one who get this call from Betel ahahhaha)      

 

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Remember, those in authority are tools and are an extension of God's sovereignty. When they go bad, they get the same justice as any other Christian, would.

If you are on some leading position in JW congregation do you believe how your appointment was made by holy spirit? Do you believe that all your words and deeds are in line with holy spirit?

If you do believe such thing, that is your free will and right. 

 

If JW member want to believe that you are "gift" given by god and to obey you and what you talking to them, that is their free will and right.

 

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Think about Srecko. Can your thought be expressed with secular authority? Can you defy your own government? What will happen if you didn't comply with your local laws? If nothing happens, let me know where you live, I would love a place that anyone can pick and choose, be good or bad at will. The last place that was that way was called Sodom and Gomorra. But, I believe angels destroyed them, not just for not obeying God's will, but the debauchery that was going on. Was lot knocking on doors or telling people in the streets, they should obey God?

 

So, how would you handle that? What kind of authority would be suitable to maintain Christian ethics to its highest standard? By confronting those taking the lead? Thinking you know better than they do? Do you have a higher moral standard? What would satisfy this theme of NOT obligated or should disagree? Remember, those in authority are tools and are an extension of God's sovereignty. When they go bad, they get the same justice as any other Christian, would.

Dear Billy, If you are JW member you already know the answer on this, that was given not only by JW but also by other kind of people (religious and non religious people) who rejecting/ed to obey something that is violate their conscience or moral standards. Some would call this act as civil disobedience. 

If you are JW member perhaps you done this also, or at least you know someone from your worldwide brotherhood who has done this and disobeyed secular authority on some issue (WTJWORG publications wrote about).  

Your question addressed to me on this issue, and in this way is out of power, it is mishit . :))

40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The overseer does not have that authority from God. Neither does your GB fake 'faithful slave class '

If i may say and put this subject, about "given authority" in this way:

IF some man .... IF he get (or if he imagined how his authority comes from "above") his authority from "above" (in any capacity we can imagine, secular or religious ...) he "has" such authority as far as he practicing what is good for others who are "under" his ruling, leading, governing position. 

Every time, in every separate issue, when he making or made bad decisions and bad regulations that have bad influence and bad repercussions and bad outcomes for other people - you are Not Obligate to Obey him ... or at least, you are not Obligate to Agree with him! 

Practice and tolerance of what is wrong, often times comes very quietly and imperceptibly.

If the premise is correct; the devil rules the world and seduces people. In that case; devil can and do every trickery to spoil what is true and right and justice/correct. In that light, WTJWORG are NOT IMMUNE on the same. Human History, or if you wish more precisely, Bible History, from Adam to nowadays proves this simple and cruel reality.

Every single free moral agent, free will human, proves one and single fact - all are corruptible, can be spoiled by bad and half true or by lie. 

To have the conviction that an individual or organization is in every respect correct and "having the truth" (religious or some other moral truth) is often the way to appear, to happen just the opposite. Perhaps not necessary on every particular issue. Problem that exist is in this; Organization ask from you, even demand from you to be loyal to all doctrines. They not allows your personal choice to "pick" what you feel as truth, but to carry all what they as Organization found to be The Truth.  

Sometimes, a certain Dilemma, before which we sometimes find ourselves, is the moment when we can be relieved of the trap of the deception in which we fall. But the liberation process of this kind does not always succeed. The fallacy, which is within us, provides a strong resistance and people around us (power of collective/group), who are loyal to the same deceit, working to encourage us to stay in the trap. 

GB Helper quote: "That person's relationship with JHVH is forever ruined. JHVH discards the person like a piece of garbage."

GB terminology: sinful person is garbage

CO terminology: someone's (person's) faith is garbage

"Garbage" is in WTJWORG lexic. And can be using for determining some person's spiritual or literal position inside WTJWORG or in front JHVH God.

 

 

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The word “garbage” is of course propaganda.

 

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

However, it would be nice to see what the overseer actually said. 😉

I agree that we (as listeners of this video) are in position to accept or reject this testimony in full or partially. .....BUT..... having knowledge of "the other side" (CO, elders) it would not be surprising that some of them are so sure in own authority and spirituality, self-righteousness to such measure/level in which some of them would dare to make proclamation how someone's faith is "garbage". Of, course we don't know what looks (what was looked) like relationship between CO and this man before this KH parking lot conversation.   

 

This is Nero. Died in 2013 in age 15.

8 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Like Ecc.9:4?

As i mentioned before, about this verse. Hope is good thing, but dog will never be a lion............. But it is fine to be a dog if you have good people around who love you.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Others may have mental or emotional problems and believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven."  WT 1/16

This WTJWORG  "double-edged sword" statement is interesting. 

If GB think how some "others" (not them but "others") members have some mental or emotional problems are problematic to be counted as part of This Particular CLASS, that issue can be solved by some medical examinations and interviews of all who made claim they are anointed. If, after they have been put through a medical test, are Not Positive on Something - whatever the test was looking for - they are healthy :)))

8 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Ps.89:37:"Like the moon, it will be firmly established forever as a faithful witness in the skies.” 

Dictionary definitions and Bible definitions do not always concur.

There exists a reason why - making doctrines from poetry - is bad idea.

Another thing what is good to remember from time to time is: word forever, eternal in Bible not necessary holding idea of something that will never stop. :))

On 4/25/2019 at 2:22 AM, Outta Here said:

Even inanimate objects like the sun, moon, and stars can be spoken of as faithful, as they are in God's word (comp.Ps.89:37). But these things are not loyal.

 The Sun, Moon and Stars are things without brain ,  so they can not be no faithful neither loyal. (only if we imagine that all what have some sort of energy on atomic level are not "dead things" and by that are able to show some attributes of Creator)   :))

 

FAITHFUL in UK:

 firm and not changing in your friendship with or support for a person or an organization, or in your belief in your principles:

a faithful friend

They are faithful supporters of the Labour Party.

His faithful old dog accompanied him everywhere he went.

C2 If your husband, wife, or partner is faithful, he or she does not have a sexual relationship with anyone else:

Was your wife faithful during your marriage?

He was faithful to his wife throughout their 30-year marriage.

 

to continue to support or follow something:

He remained faithful to the regime when so many others spoke out against it.

Despite persecution, she remained faithful to her beliefs.

true or not changing any of the details,facts, style, etc. of the original:

She gave a faithful account of what had happened on that night.

I have tried to keep my translation as faithful as possible to the original book.

 

following a particular religion:

faithful Christians

faithful followers of Buddhism

 

someone who continues to support someone or something:

He gave a rousing speech to a room full of party faithfuls (= faithful supporters of a political party).

 

people who are always loyal to a particular group ororganization,  especially a political party:

They asked for donations from the party faithful.

the people who believe in aparticular religion:

We heard bells calling the faithful to prayer.

 

FAITHFUL in US:

trusted; loyal:

She has been a faithful employee for 30 years.

If something, such as a copy or recording, is faithful, it is exactly like or very similar to the original:

The painting was a faithful reproduction of theoriginal.

 

If you are faithful to someone or something, you remain loyal and keepthe promises you made:

You've been faithful to your family.

 

 

LOYAL in UK:

B2 firm and not changing in your friendship with or support for a person or anorganization, or in your belief in your principles:

Jack has been a loyal worker in this company for almost 50 years.

When all her other friends deserted her, Steve remained loyal.

She's very loyal to her friends.

 

COMMERCE, MARKETING              a loyal customer always buys the same product, uses the same store, etc.:

Supermarkets should reward their most loyal customers.

loyal to sb/sth Our customers remain loyal to the brand.

HR                                                       a loyal employee works for the same company for many years:

loyal to sb/sth Training programmes  encourage workers to remain loyal to their employers.

 

LOYAL in US: 

always giving help and encouragement:

People close to Woodruff are fiercely loyal and quick to shower her with superlatives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Witness :Are you questioning God's reason for anointing me? 

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The question that a more humble person might ask is: “Are you questioning that I am anointed?”

Similar questions in first sight,  but in the same time also two different questions.

But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,+ a people for special possession,+ that you should declare abroad the excellencies”*+ of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light - 1. Peter 2:9

WTJWORG quote: Such adopted state brings benefits of freedom from “a spirit of slavery causing fear,” replacing it with the confidence of sons; of hope of a heavenly inheritance assured by the witness of God’s spirit. At the same time these spiritual sons are reminded by their adoption that such position is by God’s undeserved kindness and selection rather than by their inherent right. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200271355/1/0

@Witness put in front of you @TrueTomHarley adequate question. How that? By this short Bible verse and WTJWORG explanation, questioning: is/was particular "anointing" of some person true or false, it is out of human power of conclusion.

Tom, you explained your position by saying this:

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The only qualification you have displayed for being anointed is to say that you are. Nice work if you can get it.

Am I questioning it? No. However - and this is key - neither am I confirming it. How would I know? I can only observe that your input does not square very well with what I have come to expect of ones anointed.

 Well, if i understand correctly, you Tom not put in question Witness claims she is anointed (but also in the same time not confirm it: Am I questioning it? No. However - and this is key - neither am I confirming it.), but you put in question Did God anointed her: How would I know? I believe, very much/strong, how Witness do not need neither not single one or any of your "confirmation" about it :))) 

Reason you provide is: I can only observe that your input does not square very well with what I have come to expect of ones anointed.

I can agree that you, or someone else, may/should has some expectations. We all have some expectations from others, don't we? I guess that you have some expectations from GB too? Or from God himself? Surely, i guess, that you have some doubts about them/that too?! It is normal.

Main point, as i can see, from Witness question Are you questioning God's reason for anointing me? is: Do you, Tom, want to question God's choice of see me to be anointed??

Main point, as i can see, from your question Are you questioning that I am anointed is: Do you, Witness, sure about that you are anointed by God?  

1 hour ago, Hankulan-Tunani said:

Srecko Sostar,

:))))) my name was printed/used so many times recently in the people's comments and that make me wonder; is this braking law - GDPR, nobody asking me, may he use my name in their comments :)))))))))))))))))  

Another topic. About DownVoting. After @Foreigner made few serial downvoting on several comments i have made, that made/caused reaction in me to went on his comments and made my downvote to his comments, even without reading what he said. Just to send him a feeling how it looks like to receive dv symbol without explanation. Stupid and/or childish, i know, but i was "motivated or inspired" to did what i did.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

@BillyTheKid46 aka Allen Smith.  I'm just wondering why you have @Foreigner click the angry red arrows for you?  I marvel at your game-playing.  

Hi, I also wonder, why @Foreigner giving me so much red arrows too ? ...... and not giving any comments on my post, just downvote reaction :))))) perhaps man only know to read and not to write. Even i can write with my poor English  :))))))) 

Thank you very much, to all who reading my comments and have understanding and patience for my grammar  

This made me curious and i went on jworglibrary to find something with word "celebrate" about Last Supper. Here is just one article that not using such terminology, but who knows, perhaps some other did.

Why Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Observe the Lord’s Supper Differently From the Way Other Religions Do? - source: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/lords-supper/

our observance ....showing our gratitude..... to commemorate........Jesus said: “Keep doing this in remembrance of me,”........When Jehovah’s Witnesses observe the Lord’s Evening Meal

 

35 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

Maybe it will be on the site later.

Patience @Jack Ryan 

Jehovah reveals things in HIS timeline... not ours.

JHVH reveals or Writing Department is in charge for put that for public release?

The original text is prepared in English. The Governing Body oversees the activity of the Writing Department at our world headquarters. This department coordinates the assignments of the writers who serve at headquarters and at certain branch offices. Having a diversified writing staff allows us to address multicultural subjects that give our publications an international appeal. - source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102012164