Srecko Sostar
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Posts posted by Srecko Sostar
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6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:
They were not worthy so had to spend forty years in the wilderness.
WT is 140 years in wilderness now. All that period they "rowing", from 1879 - 2019, as G.L. proclaimed on JWTV
IF WTBTS IS God's chosen nation, they have not much hope and chance to survive. Think a little about history lessons and experience of Old Israel Nation. Their Nation and later Kingdom was always in some problems. Civil Wars inside and Wars on boarders. Always turbulent problems about worshiping, idolatry, morality. Alliances with other nations and subordination to other superpowers. Exiles and re turnings. Losing Kingdom and Land. Repeatedly rejected by God.
What WTBTS inc. have that is above this all? Above the historical and spiritual legacy that this organization claim of self to have as heritage all way along in past to/from Jesus and Abraham?
- JOHN BUTLER and BillyTheKid46
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11 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
Show me
WT publications shows how JW people have to be obedient to secular law but with exceptions. Disobedience to Secular Law is right way in two cases: If God forbid something or command something different than Secular Law. And second is, if your Conscience told you to do or not to do no matter what is obligated by Secular Law.
But WT publications going further to explain to their readers how Your Conscience is not trustful, so it is not good to listen conscience which is not trained by Bible. How person training his conscience? By reading Bible. But reading Bible alone is not enough.Quote: - What does this illustrate? That our private reading of the Bible is not enough. Jehovah, by his spirit, uses the faithful and discreet slave class to help us to understand his Word at the right time. How is this done? - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002883#h=22
Well, take then in consideration main thing in this issue - Listening God and what He say you should doing. But here we have again the same problem. WHO will explain you what God teaching people. Again, you need Class of People aka GBFDS Class who will told you, interpret You, what is God Will for You.
Enjoy.
In France, for example, people are generally reasonable and fair-minded. However, a few opposers have promoted laws aimed at crippling the Kingdom work. How have Jehovah’s Witnesses there reacted? They have intensified their activity in the field as never before and with thrilling results. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005925
But how far does this subjection to political authorities go? Is it unlimited? Is obedience to human law even more important than obedience to the law of God? Certainly not! Notice that in the scripture just quoted the “compelling reason” for obedience is said to include “your conscience.” So, one’s conscience is not to be ignored, especially if that conscience has been trained by the Word of God. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101968018
Thus, your conscience is designed to enable you to evaluate situations, make right choices, and judge yourself on the choices you have made. But can you trust it?...So it is wise to listen to your conscience. But it is wiser still to compare all that we do with God’s will as revealed in his Word. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101993489
Because our work was banned, the brothers needed to be alert when witnessing.....We often started conversations with those who did not support the Communist government—the so-called dissidents—who tended to be more open-minded.” - https://wol.jw.org/ase/wol/d/r266/lp-asl/202011198
Every law and statute that is in harmony with righteousness the true Christians will obey in an exemplary fashion. But any law and demand made in conflict with the superior laws and commandments of God they will not obey, for that would mean to render to “Caesar” what belongs to God. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1950841
We obey the government because that is what God wants us to do. But if we are told to do something that God says we should not do, what should we say?— We should say what the apostles said to the high priest: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102003048
We accept Jehovah’s authority and obey him even if we do not fully understand the reason for some requirement set out in his Word. This is not credulity; it is trust. It reflects heartfelt confidence that Jehovah knows what is good for us.... In accepting Jehovah’s authority, we need to guard against an independent spirit. A haughty attitude can cause us to feel that we do not need guidance from anyone. For example, we might resist counsel given by those taking the lead among God’s people. God has established an arrangement by which a faithful and discreet slave class provides spiritual food at the proper time....14 Accepting Jehovah’s authority involves responding to counsel based on his Word. For example, the faithful and discreet slave class has been admonishing us to “stay awake and keep our senses.”...Spiritual food from the faithful and discreet slave class is disseminated to local congregations by appointed elders. The Bible admonishes us: “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.” (Heb. 13:17) Does this mean that congregation elders are infallible? Of course not! God sees their imperfections more clearly than any human can. Still, he expects us to be submissive. Cooperating with the elders, even though they are imperfect, gives evidence that we accept Jehovah’s authority. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008451
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9 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
Don’t push your ideology on me. You are the one suggesting the Watchtower should break man’s laws.
No i am not that one who suggesting this. :)) WT publications openly using some Bible verses about that how JW member must listening Bible and God more than Secular Government. In other words, with life examples in publications, they (GB) supporting disobedience to Human Laws made by Secular Authority.
In next step of this doctrine is idea, how WTJWorg organization is only organization that is guided by God and how members have to listen GB aka FDS who are God's channel of communication, Represents, Mediators between God (Jesus) and His servants aka JW members here on Earth.
In next step, GB clearly say how they alone are only group who are appointed from God to run this Organization and make explanation about Bible and doctrines and instructions about that how worshiping in daily life should be look like.
Who push whose and what Ideology on people? Systematically and Organizationally.
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11 hours ago, Anna said:
Actually, these things are not secret, any publisher can read about them in various publications. ("Organized to do Jehovah's Will" and WT articles.).
Yes Anna, many of materials are available for public reading. Some other information, documents and guiding instructions are not. If you are good with some elder in cong. ask him, for example, what part (does it exist) of Letter to congregations from WT are for reading before all members and what part of that same letter is only for elders.
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The question before us is never whether or not to legislate morality, but which moral system ought to be made legally binding.
Do you suggest how JW moral system aka Religious System of WT Corporation is exactly that one which need to be legally binding for all?
Because, as few WTJWorg defenders suggest us here, exactly That One (written in WTJWorg publications and other Not Public documents aka "For Elders Eyes Only" books and memos, letters from HQ, with Rules, Laws and Procedures how to deal with Sinners, Disobedient One, Dissidents and other Hostile Elements in Congregations, is The Best what exist in this World ?
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Was that something about how Jesus gave life for sinners? And for His Friends too?
GB friends are JW members? Are they? But they "sold" them to Russian Government, and now they have Legal Battles about multi millions worth Real Estate that was Confiscated.
2 quotes from JWorg newsroom:
1) Court to Hear Appeal Against Russian Government Seizure of Witnesses’ National Office
2) Philip Brumley, General Counsel for Jehovah’s Witnesses, stated: “Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world are greatly disturbed by the harsh persecution of their fellow believers in Russia. Jehovah’s Witnesses are confronting the same type of repression today as they suffered under the Communist regime.
In 1) we see how WTinc. is so worried about Material Things, because they are Owners.
In 2) we see nothing about JW Neutrality. Bro Brumley using POLITICAL ETIQUETTE when speaking about Legal Matters and JW members by - quote: Jehovah’s Witnesses are confronting the same type of repression today as they suffered under the Communist regime. How can be that one of top lawyer, in fact General Counsel for JW, who is elder, shepherd, believer, who supposed to be POLITICALLY NEUTRAL, using comparison of late political system with today political system. What COMMUNISM have with JW Church today? What Russia today have with JW Church? What USA have with JW Church? What every and any country with particular political ideology have with JW Church?
JW Church and followers considers themselves as Separate Organization and Nation far away of any political way of expressions. Brumley's political standpoint in quote is far away of Jesus way how to deal with "politics" and secular governments. Brumley using Political Colors in aspiration to talking bad about Russian Government, Russian Courts, secular Russian People. WHO gave Brumley right to speak about political aspects in one country? Why Brumley using Communism Ideology as HIS EXPLANATION why WTJWorg have PROBLEMS in this country? Why he was not braver and picturing situation with Nazi Germany period of suppressing JW. Hitler has done terrible things to many people.
Does Brumley consider USA and Western Democracies as Good political system? Because USA Courts not seized WTJWorg Real Estate.... yet.
And what when they do that? Would GB proclaim: Armageddon comes and we have to go to Heaven?
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10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
I’m not James, TTH, and JWinsider to insult people because of grammar or language barriers and limitations,
??? I don't know those men, but i know You. hehehe
10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:I don’t have a language and grammar superiority complex, to put things under a microscope to see who puts a period, a comma, a question mark or catchphrase like “that being side” to promote some kind of misguided conspiracy that all men are created equal by, grammar. Therefore, If I made you think less of yourself because of it, I sincerely apologize.
Thanks for kind words, BUT what this have with "elders private thoughts on buying milk, going to pick up kid in school", or similar useless NOTES inside/between other notes about Child molestation cases before Court or before WT elders?
If your elders making such useless notes in investigation or judicial process inside congregation, that would be of no help or benefit for victims, maybe only for accused one.
When WT elders serves in parallel (illegal) juridical system inside One and Only Legal State Juridical System, that is the problem. It is not "problem" do i know more or less or nothing about US or EU laws.
WT top lawyers in Warwick should, must know that detail. Elders in WTinc. which is in fact Private Entrepreneurship-Enterprise in the name of God, should to learn how their working specter inside The Church is about spiritual and doctrinal issues of members. Things that are Covered by Secular laws (in this topic that is sex abuse inside WT or any other institution) should be given to Secular authority to handle.
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5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
Because their Real Estate holdings were not in jeopardy in those other countries.
Excellent answer !
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5 hours ago, Indiana said:
Question: Why did Jehovah’s Witnesses recently organize a worldwide letter writing campaign due to the persecution in Russia and not for other countries where there is also persecution?
Excellent question !
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2 hours ago, Outta Here said:
How disappointing. ☹️ The report is all ifs and woulds and shoulds and coulds.
Priests would be added to the list of professions if the legal changes are accepted.
Justice is slow but sometimes it happens. ;))
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50 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
Once again you make an irrational appeal to the otherwise uneducated. Would a personal thought about let’s say a memo within in it had addition thoughts of let’s say the need to buy “milk” before returning home after a judicial committee, or not to forget to pick up their child after that meeting make it relevant to a court case.
That’s a personal thought that only that person can confirm
4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:All things about molestation inside JW church are not just "personal, private issue".
4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:All elders thoughts put on memos, records, notes about such things are no more "private".
Billy, it is true how my English is weak. But please, take it seriously how i do not care if some elder, while he is sitting in serious Judicial Committee chair, thinking about shopping the milk, planing to go to pick kid in kinder school, or making drawings of flowers on his private paper. If they doing so while discussing serious matters than they must find another job and not be in position of "shepherds".
You Billy are so funny with this sort of thoughts. But in tragic way.
- Foreigner and JOHN BUTLER
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4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
The issue here that ex-witnesses, fake members and opposers see as the destruction of documents are merely personal memos Elders sometimes make. Personal thoughts.
To put ex-witnesses and opposers in one place seems possible. But you need to be more positive about your "fake brothers". Give chance to those you named "fake" :)))) Love covers all sins.
Elders and Personal thoughts - memos. Elders are official agents for WT. They have personal thoughts, for sure. But in standard procedures, judicial investigations and judging, all memos and thoughts are not Personal but Official. In every legal step about members, in every advice, in conversation in back room with two or more elders - nothing is "Personal". Personal is out of Record. One on One. No one else listening our conversation.
All things about molestation inside JW church are not just "personal, private issue". Because of elders reaction, matter comes to be Public issue, Legal issue, Court issue. All elders thoughts put on memos, records, notes about such things are no more "private". All that must be secured and preserve, save for future eventuality.
Other problem with elders handling things is in this, because member on the bench, have no right to make personal notes, to record all conversation, to have own lawyer, or at least the witness on his side in such situations.
- JOHN BUTLER and Foreigner
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7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
when it's clear the system is broken everywhere.
... of course, and WT is also one of the system players with or without implemented secular or non secular laws and procedures and all possible interpretations of that laws, regulations, internal and outside rules.
All that makes them, WTJWorg, as any other Organization. Worldly or Divinely, all failed. And all of them have strong tendency, intention to hide own wrongs. Hide own but to point with finger on other Organizations.
WT publications has many articles about, for example Catholic Church, and child abuse made by priests (not need to mention many emphasized things about "spiritual adultery", revealed by WT, about Roman Church and others churches. What Catholic magazine, or from some other religious org., systematically, for decades "attacks" WTJWorg? I am not reader of any religious publications today. In past i was reading only WT magazines, because it was and it is forbidden by WT to have and to read any other, different religious material that is not published by WT.
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17 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
However, they do have to play by the rules given by the government. That falls in line with obey all authority. Romans 13:1-10
Excuse me for a moment !
WT choose to play by the secular rules when that suites to them, when not, they ask for different treatment and are disobedient to secular authority. DOUBLE Standards !
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20 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
If you are paid, you are clergy.
All those hard working people in Betel's around the world receiving money, accommodation, food. And they can be fired! No matter of "volunteering" philosophy that circling about this sort of "ministry". SO, YES WT have Clergy + Nuns (married or single).
If somebody else pays/giving, donation money or some other money from other sources, for your "voluntary service", your service is not voluntary in true sense of the meaning of that word. Even small money or given things disqualified you to call yourself "volunteer".
Other story is, is level of money they received enough to be called "salary" (but it doesn't matter, in some countries people working for $ or less per day), or WT Company pays miserable money to own working class in purpose to save money for some other goals, but NOT for CHARITY purpose.
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13:36 video - we support our communities ( i guess he talking about worldly communities) through volunteer service or compulsory civilian service where that exists and we pay our taxes
Supporting communities would mean: to give those in need - bread, job, shelter, clothes, etc. without expecting from them to accept Bible study, going to meetings and similar. JW are discourage from WT publication to participate in social work by some kind of volunteer service organized by "worldly" people. JW community, as far as it is known, not organizing public kitchens, shelters or other social helping acts for people out side JW community.
To merging, as he suggesting , Compulsory civilian service and Volunteer service is funny. These are two different activities.
Another question that he put to listeners is, Where such services exists?. Is that mean how in places where such services not existing, JW NOT participated in any sort of Supporting communities? Preaching is not supporting communities, that sort of service is "mandatory" for JW members.
Compulsory definition - required; mandatory; obligatory
Volunteer/ing (service) - to offer to do something that you do not have to do, often without having been asked to do it and/or without expecting payment; an altruistic activity where an individual or group provides services for no financial or social gain "to benefit another person, group or organization"
13:56 video - but neither do we criticize those in power undermine their policies or demonstrate for political change .... neither do we condemn any political position
14:48 video - neutrality means we don't take sides
This is not correct statement. Sending Letters to Putin and Medvedev, to Russian Government (or to any other as past WT publications shows) and to other Individuals who are powerful, with call to change their Policies, Political decisions and Juridical decisions is DIRECT Attempt to influence on Worldly System, Political, Social, Religious system of Russian Government, as last example we have .
In purpose to do this, WTJWorg lawyers, run the lobbying and making legal moves, that are initiated in front of the Political and Judicial bodies of Western countries, from, so called Democracy.
And, do not forget, JW preaching how this Democratic Countries of West are under direct "satan's influence". So, tell us please, how it is possible that Representatives, Ambassadors of only true religion, of JHVH Earthly Organization asking for help "satan's Servants" in The West Side that are in opposition to their Colleges on The East Side ?
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21 hours ago, John Houston said:
You argument is not based in "inspired" thought or writings. But only human thinking
Human argumentation about human argumentation. For making review on WT history teachings and published "spiritual food", you do not need, as you said "inspired arguments, thoughts, writings". Because all WT quotes, that was presented and debunked, are NOT inspired, nor inspired in arguments. WTJWorg GB are not just imperfect good church leaders. Intentionally or by accident, they are teachers of false things.
21 hours ago, John Houston said:Yet those who left Jesus left because they did not understand, accusing him of what you say the GB is doing now, yet what was Peter's response to his question about leaving? Who actually had words of eternal life? Those who left or the very one who at that moment they did not fully understand?
Mixing Jesus and WT Church Main Body is not good. People in past who left Jesus because lack of understanding were not been rejecting by Jesus in a way that GB rejects those who left WTJWorg Company today.
21 hours ago, John Houston said:We read about the HUMAN SIDE, so many times in scripture about the apostles and allow it, but go over many things when it comes to the GB, I wonder why? Mostly I think it is because of the mindset of this time, these MEN are not like those we of in the Bible, these are MEN, not so favored to have such "inspired" information
And despite your knowledge about it, you still allow WTGB to guide your mindset. Problems for today christian followers should not be human side of apostles of 1 century. Because, 1 century apostles human's side was thing, issue that/it should have been solved by christian people in their time. And today, nowadays JW people have to deal with modern human side of artificial apostles in WT.
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5 hours ago, Equivocation said:
@Srecko Sostar We are passive. And we don't get any love letters from anyone I suppose, tends to be the complete opposite, other times just total disruption that results in a congregation meeting to temporarily be suspended for a short time or for the day. Yes we do send letters to people who are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, an example would be greeting someone as well as doing so to preach the good news, othertimes letters to comfort someone.
..... publishing time service recorded on monthly report... i guess.
I am talking about other reasons that should motivate you and other JW member in writing letters to governmental structures in behalf of suppressed individuals or groups that are not JW members.
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11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
accusations
observations or accusations ? :))))
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10 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:
Well...probably...who isn’t? What! Are you going to tell me that you are as concerned about MY suffering as you would be that of a family member?
Dear Tom, you over reacted, i expected more balanced understanding of my quote, from you after all at the end. But on other hand you revealed i am on good track with my observations on subject.
15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:And just because I acknowledge you will be MOST concerned with the suffering of family, that does not mean that you are UNCONCERNED with the suffering of everyone else. Why would you try to spin it that way with Jehovah’s Witnesses?
I understand your worry, but you find my question stupid before, when i asked; Why JW not sending Letters for non-JW people, or would JW sending Letters not only on behalf other JW, but on behalf of other who not belong to JW community.
Well now; Presentation of Galatians 6:10 as argument on standpoint you like to highlight with tendency to justify JW passivity about other social, religious, etc. groups falls down with more important moral lesson, given not by Paul, but by Jesus himself. Please, let me remind all of us here, on:
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
30 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to [us] in the faith.”
What’s wrong with that?
Jesus answered on your question what is wrong with that.
You don't need stupid boy like me to answer on your questions :)))
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48 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
Each of us, no matter who we are, only have a limited number of mental, emotional, physical, and financial resources. And only so many hours of our lives, which as time goes on, becomes painfully shorter, and filled with concerns of the day.
OF COURSE THIS IS THE CASE !
Sreko Sostar, I feel a certain affinity for you because we have seen and experienced many similar things, and have certain common awarenesses ... but will allocate what total resources I have to "Blood or Brotherhood" .... FIRST.
The quickest way to go totally insane is to grieve over things you cannot change ... and as Clint Eastwood, in the Harry Callahan series of movies once said, (paraphrased) ....
" .. A man has got to know his own limitations."
Thanks James, same feelings from my side too.
Words, birds of a feather flock together, well says how things are. In ornithology aspects, human have loves for all or almost for all birds. But in aspects of "human birds", human "bird" making choice/choices about other sort of human birds. In common, general aspects that usually ending in prejudice, rejecting, "flocking" in separate societies, groups and similar. Such things around us are "normal". We all were borne in this "normal" life conditions and accepting these ideas as ours too. People of Earth "dreaming" one global, the same "dream". No, matter of the "flock" they temporary belongs, they have common "dream" as heritage from past generations. And in global terms, they all, almost all, are so deep in this dream, but so effective in so called awaken state, that they think they are awake. Dream so deep that make you thinking, feeling you are awake :)))
In that sense, thoughts i am talking about, how your suffer, your tears, your pain, your happiness, your doubts and many other things, it should mean something to me too.
"The sign", no matter of what origin, that others put on our forehead, or we have chosen it by ourselves, is an obstacle, not a blessing.
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8 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:
NOBODY floods the field with letters for every cause under the sun. EVERYONE does it for the cause they hold most dear.
This quote you provide can be more clearly put in this one substitute sentence, and thus reveals YOUR (or JW view in general ?) secret wishes of heart and state of mind:
JW members are less concerned about suffer of people who are not JW.
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6 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:
Here is an opinion that doesn’t agree with yours, @Srecko Sostar:
There is the obligatory jab at POTUS & VP, disliked politically. But the opinion is spot on. And yes, it WOULD be fine if they weighed in, even with many many wrongs to choose from.
I am not sure is it "torture", of any kind, in police/military investigations, legal or illegal by the Law of particular country. Believe it is not. But, if police went over, above permitted methods in investigations of those JW people, than they must be called for accountability about violence, for sure !!
"STANDING WHERE IT DOES NOT BELONG"
in Topics
Posted
Canada has many symbols. There may be some other symbol appearing in their Betel. Why stop at the inuksuk statue?
But there is something else what we can think about as idols, idolatry, worshiping, hidden message, changed/twisted meaning. In verse quoted above one special terminology was introduced by Jesus. Word Helper or helper is equivalent for Holy Spirit of holy spirit. HE will teach You and you.
The Governing Body entrusts much to its helpers and appreciates the fine service performed by these loyal, hardworking brothers. - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20151015/helpers-governing-body-committees/
It is interesting how WTJWORG find it adequate to give THIS name/etiquette/title to humans who "helping" GB members. Because GB members strongly claiming how they are NOT inspired by Spirit (in other simple words, Spirit NOT teaching them) but that they are "guided", it is significant and not far from reality how substitution for teaching from REAL, GENUINE holy spirit which source is in God, is TRANSFERRED to Artificial "holy spirits" that resides in, it's situated in Human called "GB Helper/s".
If one of meaning for Inuksuk Statue is to point the way to somewhere, or to correct your way, than this WT invention, from 1992 , is very seriously entering in the domain, radius of idolatry and worshiping of idols. How comes to that? Because Helpers are males appointed (not by HS, but by GB) to serve in various (6) Committees, which decisions, instructions and marking they way how "worshiping God has to look" is not under INFLUENCE, GUIDING, TEACHING of holy spirit as ONLY HELPER PROMISED BY JESUS, but under Human Helpers spirit.
Who/whom JW member obey? Worshiping? JW member worshiping those or that whom or what he listening and OBEY. If you obey human person, in final moment you worshiping him, willingly (deceived or by own choice) or by force. If you obey your own idea of something or about someone, you worship your own idol created in you/yourself.