Srecko Sostar

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

 

What do you think they should say?

- truthful information's about all cases from past to today

- put free space for listeners to make own conclusions and possibility to express it in responding comments, letters, talks, etc.

- list of those who are dfd for molestation's 

- list of those who are sentenced by Courts for molestation's

- how much money was payed for various expenses  

- collectively asking for forgiveness, apologize to victims

I am sure how some of this points you would support too. :))    

15 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

But the cops might be immoral too, or even pedophiles also.Who knows. Would create a bigger problem.

 

.... you are so right, ..... well why not to thing the same about JW elders, according to same logic????

On 2/2/2019 at 1:02 AM, Melinda Mills said:

Never saw CSA in a publication. Seems you will be soon be using USA however you like.  CSA means Canadian Standards Association, along with the others mentioned above.  

you ridicules other, so  why not to ridicule your ridicules.

  Canadian Soccer Association is right choice  ....

Canadian Snowbird Association is better choice....

but if you continue in looking more on list, you will finally come to CONTEXT :))))))) 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I don’t care if he is bad association or not. If I was worried about bad association, I would not be here. Nor would you.

Up-vote!

Another thing.

It is good that You speaking about issue on your blog. No matter of your intention to defend GB. But it is positive that You talking how cases are open and they are in the midst of JW people. Those JW who will go on Your page will find, I guess, more information than from WT official channels of communication. hehe

8 hours ago, Anna said:

What he said was that us denying there is a problem, and ignoring child abuse, is apostate lies.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

He said, "As an example, think about the apostate-driven lies and dishonesties that Jehovah’s organization is PERMISSIVE” toward pedophiles.”

S. Lett delivered message how WT and JW members are "holy people" who respecting Bible moral standards and teachings about sexuality. By that reason JW people condemns depravity as pedophilia. 

What S. Lett didn't said is, that WT policy and rules, instruction how to handle inside cases when own members molesting JW kids, are very questionable and how such weak, inadequate, misguided approach to pedophiles, shows that WT is not capable of solving problems in their own home. 

Another thing that S. Lett didn't said is, from where coming expression "permissive". Who, what ex-JW individual or group used terminology "permissive" in this context? What You-Tube video or individual letter accused WTJWorg for "permissiveness" about pedophiles? 

As i can conclude from YT videos i saw, ex-JW or pedophiles victims talking about wrong treatments of elders and WT rules that are in fact working in favor to wrongdoers and leaving victims without "justice", and even put victims to be as guilty part because they are not "able to prove accusations", or even contribute to be a victims.

Such WT policy can be seen as "permissive", and it is, no matter what was the intentions of WT Creators when making rules about how to handle and processing child molestation accusation. 

S. Lett, (with some other TV preachers on JWTV) made another manipulation on Public JWTV. Never told about Court cases and out of Court deals, and how much money WT gave, by Court decision or by settlement, to victims. Omitting to talk about it, on JWTV as worldwide instrument to share spiritual food and instructions to Brotherhood, WT leaders showed and still showing sort of "permissiveness", not so much to pedophiles, but to own Wrong Ideas and Teachings and to themselves as Pioneers who created bad administrative regulations on issue, and now they do not want to admit their own guilt.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I especially thought this was a truthful admission from page 202, 203:

However, in the very next columns, starting on the same page, this admission disappears into oblivion, and it becomes a religious organization, after all.

Excellent and amazing founding, revelation. Nail in coffin, as some would say. Controversy in full measure, despite written statement in preface of magazine that say:   

ITS MISSION

............

 It does not indulge in controversy, and its columns are not open to personalities". .............

No controversy? Writers are generate Controversy  in the Core Itself. Listen what is written in the magazine:

quote: "Such "society" is not legal society or corporation, chartered according to the laws of some state or nation, ...." they said.

They are exactly what they claim they are not !! Hey JW people,  AWAKE! Dear people, this is official hoax on paper.

Watchtower and all entities under Mother Organization are pure Corporations worldwide, and all, every single of them have Charter/s!!  

7 hours ago, Anna said:

 July 1, 1943 Watchtower (p.205) 

For anyone who wants to read the whole article in context:

https://ia801406.us.archive.org/23/items/WatchtowerLibrary/magazines/w/w1943_E.pdf

 

 

ITS MISSION

THIS journal is published for the purpose of enabling the people to know Jehovah God and his purposes as expressed in the Bible. It publishes Bible instruction specifically designed to aid Jehovah's witnesses and all people of good-will. It arranges systematic Bible study for Its readers and the Society supplies other literature to aid in such studies. It publishes suitable material for radio broadcasting and for other means of public instruction in the Scriptures.

It adheres strictly to the Bible as authority for its utterances. It is entirely free and separate from all religion, parties, sects or other worldly organizations. It is wholly and without reservation for the kingdom of Jehovah God under Christ his beloved King. It is not dogmatic, but invites careful and critical examination of its contents In the light of the Scriptures. It does not indulge in controversy, and its columns are not open to personalities.

1) It adheres strictly to the Bible as authority for its utterances  

Plenty of doctrinal and instructional, corporative changes from 1943 to today reveals that so called "Bible authority" as base for WT articles was questionable intention. Is it Bible itself questionable authority that is not able to provide clear idea to those who reading Bible text? Is it human perception of very same Words some kind of trap that unable clear understanding?  What is general or particular Bible Idea? To create only true "religious organization"?  Really ?!

WT publications in general and here WT magazine as particular paper for dispensing spiritual food  clearly proved that it can't be trusted for it's readers. 

IN LIGHT OF THIS CONCLUSION, it is very significant how text continues with this: 

2) It is not dogmatic, but invites careful and critical examination of its contents In the light of the Scriptures.

The WT Magazine was Not dogmatic? If authors aka publishers and writers of The WT articles of those period of time were had such idea about own presentation of spiritual food, than that is for praise, undoubtedly. What was changed in meantime??

If you as author of your articles made claim that you and your written ideas are not dogmatic, and how all other are invited to make Careful and Critical Examination of ITS contents, than All Open Discussion, Reasoning, Pro et Contra Argumentation, Accuracy and Wrongness will Never be Sanctioned by Those in "Charge" , from so called "Spiritual Authority", who ever they are in particular time.   

No Shunning or Disfellowshiping  of those who have Other Opinion, because even Official doctrines are only this, Current Point of View, Current Opinion and nothing more, as reality shows us until this day!    

Curiosity for fun;

interesting terminology from 1943

."...while we were on Watchtower street work..."         :))) good title for preaching service :))))

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

influenced me to quit school

I had different "motive" why i "had to" quit school in the middle of second grade of high school. (In Croatia we have 8 grades in Primary School and then 4 grades in High School. ......After you can go to "Higher Education" aka University .... ahahaha)

To come back ... In first and second grade, school has program (Communism era) of learning about weapons inside subject called,  in free translation "Pre-military training". In first grade you learned theoretically and in second grade teacher bringing rifles and after students going to shooting place to shoot one or few bullets in wooden target, ...I guess it was wooden :))) .

If you not complete and went to shooting, you can't get evaluation and in final missed to passed a school class, year. I have been baptized in that same month, one Sunday in November 1977. And next day, in Monday, had to, must to "defend"  my "christian belief" in front of teacher. Of course, without happy outcome for me :)))). Well, as i can not see any future in this, i quit school and looking for some job. Imagine. Even elders made meeting in congregation with me to ask about what was happen, but i felt as i was suspected of something from elders.

What can you do without some school or skills or practice and experience? But after one year i get job and learning to be bookbinder in one small workshop not far from home place, in fact 10-15 minutes by walk.....  Doing that for some 1,5 year, in meanwhile went to prison for known reason, and then continue next 1,5 year at same workshop.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Anna quote " They wouldn't need anyone to teach them (perhaps such as the scribes and pharisees?). " 

Or a Governing Body ? 

Quote "These ones need spiritual instruction just like everyone else." The clue comes in the last 4 words 

What the W/t writer is saying is that the Anointed need instruction from the GB / Writing dept' just like everyone else.

Quote "Otherwise you would be saying God discriminates on account of position, that somebody with a higher position has more value in God’s eyes than someone of a lowly position. "

If 'Experiences' (in Yearbooks / Watchtowers etc)  are to be believed, then it would seem that God / Jesus Christ has / have saved some brothers/sisters in certain circumstances, but not saved other brothers/sisters in other circumstances. Now both God and His Son work in their own ways, working together as one, and i would never question what they do. I am humble enough to know that their ways are much higher than mine. But they must have their reasons for saving some and not others. (If experiencies are to be believed). 

An example of a supposed 'experience' : A sister was on the ministry and knocked on the door of a man. The man turned her away. The man was later arrested for rape/murder of a woman in his own home. When questioned as to why he did not invite the sister in etc, as she had been his first visitor. The man said that she 'had a man stood either side of her', she was not alone. But the sister had gone in to the ministry alone, so the 'man either side of her' must have been angels guarding her. ... True or false I do not know, but I do know it was offered as an 'experience' at a meeting a long time ago. 

 

 

... many, many years ago i heard JW people talking the same "story"here mentioned. 

You open interesting question. Why would god provide help, protection to some JW and not to other JW. When i was much younger, that means, many, many years ago ... again, i heard another "story", true or not, do not know. Some young sisters preached  from house to house (from flat to flat in building) to some young man. A re-visit was agreed. They came next time and then several men raped them.

So, again why would "angels that stand around you as protectors" in preaching service and in life, generally, allowed this crime to happened ?????????????????????????????

Is the answer? To be proved how this World is in power of evil one????... or maybe ...."People must answer on Universal Questions about god's sovereignty, ...or this .....Would people obey god from Love?????? .... or maybe ... So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God’s hands, but no one knows whether love or hate awaits them. ² All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad,^[a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not........

I have seen something else under the sun:

Please, Do not joke/yoke me with this or similar answers !!!!!!!!!

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

LOL. Thanks.  It wasn't by choice, and it's not the first time I have typed "every" for "ever." Among a lot of other mistakes I make is a common one for me where I type "Babylong" for "Babylon" and "imaging" for "imagine." Unfortunately the built in spell-check here will only flag the "Babylong" error.

And for some reason I almost always type "it's" even when it's "its." Another one that rarely gets flagged, so I often neglect to change it.

ahh, do not worry, this typing errors comes with age and common vision problems  

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Well true, but nothing changed, only fulfilled in the one man's teachings.  

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.   Matt 5:17-19

I mean on change that is visible in aspects as; Kill "apostates"  vs turn the other cheek, love your enemies, etc.    100% change

The man who acts presumptuously by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the Lord your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.

“If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones.

David prayer against his enemies:

May the table set before them become a snare;
    may it become retribution and a trap.
23 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
    and their backs be bent forever.
24 Pour out your wrath on them;
    let your fierce anger overtake them.
25 May their place be deserted;
    let there be no one to dwell in their tents.
26 For they persecute those you wound
    and talk about the pain of those you hurt.
27 Charge them with crime upon crime;
    do not let them share in your salvation.
28 May they be blotted out of the book of life
    and not be listed with the righteous.

11 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Sorry but that, weird. SAGEBRUSH Church in Albuquerque New Mexico.

i see it now, from another computer.

happy hour coffee :)))

10 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

https://www.sagebrush.church/

thanks for link, but it can not be opend

25 minutes ago, Anna said:

all peoples lives have equal value in God’s eyes.

Read Leviticus  chapter 21.

.. all people are not equal, even in god's eyes. And if it is so with god, how is it with other imperfect human than. 

7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

God doesn't change

?? He changed Law. From Mosaic to Christ law. for example :))

7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

to "act"

....perhaps my English cause misunderstanding 

18 hours ago, Anna said:

The reasoning was that alternative service would be a substitute or "in place of"....which was perceived being "the same as" fighting in a war, in which case Acts 5:29 would apply 

Reasoning of this type is/was nonsense ....., and JW people have to take clear stand and say that aloud to their human leaders.

20 hours ago, Anna said:

You are right, we don't have to look far to find them. Here is a whole list of teachings that were revised or updated: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174

Do you think it would have been better to stick to the previous understanding and never change anything?

Of course, people have to change previous doctrinal nonsense. If doctrinal nonsense including some trivial ideas that not affect your life in important things then it can be possible for all JW to laugh together on that.

But when some doctrinal nonsense cause prison, death, personal and family problems ---- ???? what comfort and what kind of love will GB Teachers  give you as compensation and help?    

As we can see, from past to today, they give you another nonsense.

20 hours ago, Anna said:

The FDS being only the members of the GB make practical sense as most of the other anointed are scattered all over the earth and are in different time zones, so to expect for them to sit in on, and contribute to the dispensing of spiritual food would be unrealistic.

funny explanation :))

19 minutes ago, Anna said:

There are many things that are not done at all the same way today

must be" the new light effect" :))) flash  ...... dance

1 hour ago, Queen Esther said:

Fact is...   in MANY countries and towns,  brothers and sisters were helping by cleaning their towns !  Also in my german town STADE, every year....   Its NOT strange, all that is TRUE, bec. I was helping too.   Ask competently  brothers, then you still can learn a little

Ah German, that is understandable, .. work, discipline, organization, orderliness, methodicalness .... I love Germany, been in some areas. I knew some JW there. But lost contacts.   

11 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Srecko Sostar  Quote " Today, looking on my period in prison, jail, and obligation on going to army, I came to conclusion how decision to reject army service is more decision of WT Corporation aka JW Church than my clear conscience stand on  matter. Perhaps i assured my self it is my conscience, but in fact it was about behavior according to group (JW congregation) i was belong in that time. It was expected to do it that way. "

Srecko, I have tears for you my friend. The GB have a lot of things to answer for. 

I hope God removes the GB from 'power' and replaces them with a true Anointed class. 

Thanks John for emotions you put publicly.

All in all, my prison time went well, working, going to school inside prison walls, not have problems with other prisoners, after 2 years get my first vacation to visit home. I am kind of introvert, and to be alone is not so harsh punishment  in my case :))) i like more to be alone in 3x2,5 cell than in crowd. Perhaps .... or certainly/ obviously.... i have some unsolved psycho and early childhood issues :))))   

31 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Maybe the Russian authorities felt that JW's were getting to powerful too. 

I don't think this could be reason. Possibly the antagonism of the systems and the Russian-American relationship.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

These young Witness men stood before government tribunals and
declared themselves bound to an uncompromising position of rejecting
alternative service unless first arrested and tried and sentenced
to perform it by a judge, and they perhaps thought that such
was their own conviction. But their inability to explain the reason
for their stand shows that someone else has done their thinking for
them.

Just one moment for say something as general conversation :)))

In this part of world in that period of time (until 1988/89, with fall of Wall and democratic changes in East Europe and in Yugoslavia) there is no alternative service. After, with time, came optional services with this GB "philosophy". Who is in charge and order service? Nonsense of sort, for sure.

Today, looking on my period in prison, jail, and obligation on going to army, I came to conclusion how decision to reject army service is more decision of WT Corporation aka JW Church than my clear conscience stand on  matter. Perhaps i assured my self it is my conscience, but in fact it was about behavior according to group (JW congregation) i was belong in that time. It was expected to do it that way. 

Similar as to  expectations and obligation on JW brothers to not wearing beards :)))). If you want be ok for God, for congregation, do shave every day :))) Issue is not for comparison, but "principle" coming from same idea. To be different, to not to be "part of the world", "to be holy".

Levels of our obligations and obeys to man, is in gradation. You will obey something to certain level, until your "conscience" or belonging to particular group, or Bible verse (interpretation of that verse) said you to NOT doing or obey man, authority or so.

Similar is with army service. If young man wearing uniform, running whole day to get condition, cleaning, learning about weapons, shooting and so ... but not hurt anyone, then some will find such activity to be acceptable. When somebody order you to kill other people, that is situation in what you must have your stand and do as you think is right.

Some religious groups are very active in "proselytizing", preaching to other people. Some have unique "uniforms" and others are "civilians". But their "service" as "soldier of Christ" or "soldier" of their church, can bring also some good and some very bad results. This religious service in the name of god are called "spiritual battles". And all such "soldiers" are able, in spiritual sense, accidentally or purposely, to hurt and to "kill" other people with, sometimes,  persistent consequences. Religious teachings are the "bullets".

Parable...... Well, FDS aka GB are "Army officers" for 8 mil JW members. Would you as  an ordinary JW  rank and file "soldier" obey all commands coming from GB "superior authority"?? 

With or without Raymond, the FDS / GB has demonstrated (show it until today) how things are in WT.