Srecko Sostar

12 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

IT IS THE CUSTOMS OF THE RUSSIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS TO CLEAN ONCE A YEAR, ALL THE GARDENS OF THE CITY WHERE THEY LIVE.

Everywhere, in whole Russia?

Are Russian JW only one in whole world doing such activity? Never heard something similar here in Croatia, or elsewhere. 

Do you know who organizing this voluntary work, is it by own initiative of members, or by elders or by Betel?

If this is true, very good. But, it is strange to hear something like this. 

3 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

He can foresee in detail if he chooses to like in the case of Cyrus - even before he was born.   But he is not the cause of the outcome.  It is only that he can see it.  Free will is the cause of the outcome. In the case of Esau he also saw the different genes and bent of the person.

Ok, but one little detail - God also has free will to chose, and by that to cause or not to cause outcome of something. And we will never know what was happened.   

Or, we can talk about question; Does God has free will? Or He acting in a way He MUST to act, because He is God and God acting as God. When people say God is love and good, than they mean, He can't be unrighteous, or bad. So, by that, He has not free will to act in a different way but only in one way - always showing justice, mercy, love ....even in a situation when he killing humans. Interesting,    

21 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

But Judas as not predestined to be the betrayer - he chose to be at some point. It would be unloving of Jehovah to predestine someone for destruction. Jehovah gave us all freedom of choice.

This sort of subject, question on predestination, free choice and God's capacity to see future is problematic to understand, for me at least :)))

Some quotes from WT publications stated, how God can see your future and all in your personal life, but he  not using his capacity, power to do that, how he respects your individuality and privacy, so he has no need to deal with you in such way. But on other hand he will use this method if he have reason for that. All examples about idea and practice, when God decide to brake your  privacy, ant to used this kind of going into your free will, future, state of heart and mind, we have in few bible reports, Judas is one example.

If God see your bad intentions, and how you will never, but never, for sure never change your attitude as in Judas case, then NO ONE can give any help to such person. If God saw how Judas alone as person can not change his personality, how Jesus can not help him to change, how no one of his family, friends can do nothing about it, than all is in vain even for Judas alone and all his intentions and tries, because God Himself saw and PREDICT how such person will be born and done this to Jesus. And how that will not be done by some brother from Egypt or China but ONLY from one of 12. And in one of 12 only Judas will be that person. God saw how Judas, and no one else but Judas will do this. And by that, God "choose" Judas for doing this act. Did God saw Judas future before Adam and Eve creation?? Or after? Or before Abraham? Or before John Baptist? This would be Speculative conversations and theories !!!!! coming to NO WHERE!

If He saw Judas failure future,  did he decide how he can not help him because, as verses said, Judas heart was bad?? So, how many hearts here on this forum are bad in that way, that god can not do nothing about that?? 

JW believe how life is not predestined. Only believes how God can see your future, and future of all mankind.  But with subject of "prophesies" you must to enter in sphere of predestination.

Is "prophecy" merely God's looking in future events that will be? If it is, then life is predestined in some way, because future is already past event, for God at least who saw your past, present and future before you came in existence. And if He decide not to intervene,  people can not do nothing else but just the things He saw they/you are doing.

If "prophecy" is something what will be done by somebody in the future, than you are again in sphere of predestination because somebody will and must fulfill particular "prophecy" because God already saw particular event.

Did He saw what things will take place in the future

or

did He saw what things will not take place in the future?   

:))))

20 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

while I am worshipping/singing along with the music I can raise my hands to God in worship.

Nice. Where is the place you singing this way? 

5 hours ago, Equivocation said:

suit and ties are made by people so I agree with you here, but how does that equal to tradition of men?

Hi! 

I see this subject this way. If somebody made decision, rule (that in KH meeting) how particular clothes and details in clothes are only acceptable (but some other fashion is even forbidden or just "not good")  for people who coming in KH, then after some time, this rule come to be tradition. And in general, with time passing, members will not consider this as just rule but as tradition, folkloric issue, for particular people in particular social group, JW community in this case.   

On 1/21/2019 at 9:37 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

The tie is one of the most pathetic pieces of clothing ever invented.

They said how here in Croatia is origin of tie (kravata - Croata, Cravate - in English, from French word Cravates for Croatian people )  typical scarves worn by Croatian cavalrymen,  an accessory which became the ubiquitous necktie of today...

On 10/5/2018 at 6:01 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW Dress Rules is the topic, not, being in a concentration camp. 

Perhaps TTH connecting concentration camp's dress fashion, the very modest one, as dress without any sexual elements and call for fantasy, with this topic?? :)))))   

53 minutes ago, Anna said:

Jesus could have chosen a different path if he had wanted to, and of course the most infamous example is of Satan, who was originally a perfect angel. So my point was that we should not be surprised if someone we previously considered good turns bad.

54 minutes ago, Anna said:

I do not believe however that Judas was "destined" to be bad, as that would have deprived him of the freedom of choice that has been given to all intelligent creatures in heaven and on earth. 

This can bring us to interesting discussion with interesting people. 

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But the problem, as best as I can see it, was not that he said anything untrue, but that his motive was

You made important point. If someone can not defeat your arguments or evidences then they questioning your motives. So pathetic!!! 

"Yes, it can be how this what he said was happened, but WHY HE said this? ... because HIS MOTIVES are bad". 

And WHO are you? to judge my motives ! :)))  

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Oh very well. Wait for him to tap you on the shoulder, make that request, and then say “Okay.”

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. Mark 11:24

Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” John 11:40

He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” Mat 17:20

Then the apostles said to the Lord, “Give us more faith.” Luke 17:5

:))))) 

28 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Sometimes they say "we do not know." I believe they have said it with regard to the interior rooms, for example. Tell @JOHN BUTLER Someone find the quote, please.

Jesus wants us to stay watchful because of what we do not know and what we do know.

ws12 2/15 pp. 3-8 - The Watchtower (Simplified)—2012

WHO IS WE?? MEMBERS!

 As God’s people, we understand many things that we could not otherwise have known.

w03 8/1 pp. 14-19 - The Watchtower—2003

WHO IS WE? GB!!

There are some things that happen in the organization that we may not understand.

w57 5/1 pp. 279-285 - The Watchtower—1957

WHO IS WE? MEMBERS!

How big Jehovah God is as to his body we do not know.

w53 12/15 pp. 748-761 - The Watchtower—1953

WHO IS WE? WE ALL! :))))))))

37 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So why couldn't the GB / Watchtower Soc' just sometimes say 'We do not know' 

Because they are Governing Body of all JW people. If they dare to say something like this, to whom JW people will go for water of truth???? :))))))  Well, they will never say, we do not know, but they will say, "some of us was thought", "in the past we believed" and similar general phrases.   

JW members, both, former and present, often come to the conclusion that some WT doctrines are very important, and some are less important for everyday spiritual health and/or survival of Armageddon. For some doctrines they think how they are not so important for "survival", for faith, for personal relationship to JHVH, for own or congregational life. And they are right in such thinking. But, WT view on worldwide Unity of God's people aka JWorg is a little different about this idea/s. To support idea how is good to be in step with particular teachings, even not "so important" from members view, GB using some phrases as; "be faithful in small things", "obey every instructions from GB even you don't understand why", "trust GB because JHVH trust them" and similar.
That is exactly what happens with a "overlapping generation". This interpretation is certainly a great nonsense, which is the product of mind of one or several people who have had to defend the position of previous WT Bible scholars/Doctrinal Inspectors, GB/FDS members, and to defend the possible meaning/s about Jesus' words on the "X Generation" and the anticipated "End of the World."

The teaching of this type, is one of characteristically teachings for such a kind of religion that is largely (if not entirely) based on Armageddon and the Reward with eternal life. The religion/movement (Bible Students) began with the prediction that the end is near. So, all efforts was been putted for "warning" other people about need to accept Jesus and JHVH. And this efforts is also attribute for JW today. 

The frequent announcements of the nearness of the end and the presentations of "evidences" to supporting it, does not stop until today. Evidences are always of the same kind, expectations are also the same, .... the time that passes without the fulfillment of expectations and beliefs means nothing, because time is eternal. If it did not happened today, then it will happen tomorrow. You just have to wait, and to remember how "many faithful people from past waited also for the fulfillment but not meet promises. So, you as JW can comfort yourself with same logic - It will be tomorrow.

  
This meaningless "overlapping" thesis, serve only to put the patch on the doctrinal hole, and correcting, fixing past misconceptions .... and to bring new hope for travelers traveling on a WT boat on which water enters, more and more. To convince yourself that you do not serve God for eternal life, or because of the fast arrival of Armageddon, or how this "irrelevant explanation" of what the generation is, means nothing to you, is good, ...if you really believe that this means nothing to you !! But, is it good to "believe" and to preach to other around you, that this "Concept" is what "Jesus has meant while speaking" about generation, and how God approved all this "truthful" explanations from past to this day !? 

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

because they have never made an effort to keep any.

proof for this Arauna :)))))

18 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Other denominations do not have records because they have never made an effort to keep any.... so they do not get negative publicity because they actually have tried to do the right thing.

Please provide hard and indisputable evidences and proves for your statement above. If you can not, you are in fact slandering this Other denominations.  

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Nevertheless Jehovah used Israel for his purpose....

Yeah.... He made Israel,  used Israel and destroyed Israel several times. Very encouraging, for sure! 

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Accusations, accusations of being institutionalized problem.... make up your mind. In previous response you said you are not accusing all of us of being child molesters and condoning this.... 

Problems with lexis Arauna?

1. of, relating to, or established by institution.
2. of or relating to organized establishments, foundations, societies, or the like, or to the buildings devoted to their work.
3. of the nature of an institution.

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

And broadcasting will just give people like you more ammunition to dissect and accuse.

For people like me it is of any matter/importance would JW broadcasting tell the truth about this subject. But it would be of great significance to/for JW members. 

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Judging means slandering the neighbor,

Talking about child molestation in JWorg is not Judging and not Slandering.

Because .... it is something that was happened in your organization.

:)) 

9 minutes ago, Arauna said:

The broadcasting is a public forum for 'spiritual strengthening' not for diverting to personal matters

Sorry, Institutional problem of pedophilia inside JW religion is not so called "personal matters". Because, this child molestation "disease" is not sporadic event in 1 or 2 case. Institution, in this case WT, made it to be general, worldwide matter/problem for all JW comunity and secular society in which this JW community living and working as citizens and as active preachers who invite people to join JW organization. 

Is it "polite" to invite people to join organization with promises how this religion offer them safe and peaceful environment and justice in living inside The Church aka Congregation, but in the same time not giving a warning what is going on.

33 minutes ago, Arauna said:

America is one of few countries which has an offenders list when peoples names are publicly on a list.   So, if you did a stupid thing as a teenager you will be on this list forever until you die and your life is ruined.  Does this sound like justice? 

Stupid things? What "stupid things" made by teenagers have with child molestation we talking about here?

Some "stupid things" can be called stupid, but also can made young people going to wrong way whole life. 

Some kids just get drunken, or having intimate adventure, some other torturing animals and other kids. 

What of this and many more deeds, we should or have to call as "just stupid things"? 

But again, child molestation is not "stupid things", so your commenting this way is out of subject and totally weird.    

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

I did not read the comments above.

No problem!

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

they use the available information to twist the truth to look like the organization is full of pedophiles and condoners of it.

I never said how JW religion is full of pedophiles, and i don't think in that way about JW. So, please calm down emotions and mood about me or others who not talking this way, but you put how that it is.

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

Of all the organizations interviewed (almost 2000) - our organization was the only organization (of all the churches, youth organizations, sports organizations that work with children) which kept notes on these people because there were not laws in place to prosecute.  JWs kept notes on them so they could not go to another congregation and not be informed upon.

This is double sword statement. 

Few of interviewed elders in front ARC said how they not remember many things about cases or how they have not any notes or how they destroyed some of those notes. It would take much time for me to go again and find video for this, maybe me or someone else will do that, but i think my recall on this matter is ok.

On other side, if JW administration is so responsible, pedant and efficient in collecting this specific notes (with other sort of notes about members too) it is strange that NOT SINGLE ONE episode in JWBroadcasting or WT publications NOT made TRANSPARENT AND OPEN, SINCERE INSIGHT for JW and non JW readers and viewers about ARC, or any other multi millions $ fines made on WT and some other WT Legal Entities who was responsible for mishandling about issues. 

Also how is possible that this "an advanced system of tracking sinners" (JW members who repeatedly molesting JW children) is failed so much, (in Australia with 1006 molesters) DESPITE ELDERS NOTES and CIRCULATING of Top Confidential Information's inside "ONLY FOR ELDERS EYES" ARRANGEMENT? 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

In 2003 a law was passed in United States which made prosecution of sex offenders easier.  Before that the child could be cross-examined in court by the defender's hostile representatives.

Some or major of JW Judicial Committee also done and perhaps doing same procedural difficulties for some victims or participants in sexual issues (crimes or fornication). Cross-examination and ways how to collect information about some sexual details. 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

The purpose of the Australian inquiry was to address the gaps in the law and they were investigating the procedures various organizations were following to  find out where the gaps were so better legislation can be put in place.

 Not only that, but also to show how many Institutions (including religious one, as WTJWorg also) are not BRIGHT EXAMPLE for Imitate.  WTJWorg of Australia are not joined in National Redress Scheme. 

WT of Australia with US Headquarter obviously not thinking to make any Apology to Victims inside JW community, and is not willing to compensate any damage for those who suffered within the "spiritually safe congregations" and under guidance of some "responsible, wakeful" Overseers/Elders.     

For many people who was born in poor countries, it could be said how their life is "predestined", or they are predetermined to stay poor and illiterate because parents can't afford to pay a school for their children. And for major of such population that is present and future. 

In some other cases we can talk about ones childhood. A circumstances in that period of life can be also very significant about life of such in older ages. With genetic you mentioned, too.

Are we all some experiment of gods? :)) It could be. JW and some other when talking about book of Genesis and Bible at all, say how God put The Tree in Garden to see will human obey Him or not, will they obey because of love too. So, this sort of explanation smell much to me, on some sort of experiment. Such idea is continued, same stuff is repeated with Abraham or Job, Jesus too. All of them, and many more was put in position "to prove" something about God.

Examples with Adam and Job, JW using as explanation for Crucial Questions of Life and Death. They say how God's Sovereignty and Honor depends on how would, will people answer to that challenge. Of, course, it is interesting how Adam, Job and Jesus answered about it,and make A Point, but still this seems it is not enough for God to make conclusion on this stuff and stop all injustice, misery and suffer for millions (people) or innocent children for centuries until today.     

Things are not, usually, black/white, but, perhaps JW explanation is not good enough, it is not valid, or interpretations on Bible text is terribly wrong, or bible description of past is poor, or all is in vain, or .... or i am predestined to talking stupidity    :))))))    

59 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You seem to rush to condemn the organization for not doing something when there were not yet laws in place

You received some view on this by John. He made good points. 

For a long time, WT publications shows JW religion as superior over all other religions. For what reason? For it is considered as the only right/true that came from God alone. Considered by whom? By Leaders and Members. Their Self Valuations on own interpretations about Bible and derived Organizational Doctrines from such Interpretations, and the way how they practice own religious beliefs, gave them this Right to Think so about themselves. Most of all, they are very confident in idea how God Himself with help of Jesus, GUIDING this earthly Leaders of this Multilevel Corporation/s. In their eyes God not running only Spiritual aspects of religion, but also All other parts of JW System under Leadership of WT and GB who are, supposedly, putted in this place by God Himself (or by Jesus, doesn't matter).  

In Light of this "knowledge" that exist inside GB and JW members, it can be very disappointing to see how WT Company have problems and "do not know how" handle things that is not Nothing New from religious point of Thinking. How so? Because all those things already were happen and described in the Bible. And WT (not only one in the World) preaching about Bible past records, prophecies, last days, big world problems, immorality and all evil things in 20, and now in this 21 century. 

So, how came to this reaction of WT and GB that they must get special commands, instructions, laws and Court decisions on how to handle Child Sexual Abuse problems inside own JW Organization? How is possible that such Faithful and Discrete (wise) Leaders not see what Bible told them to do as Prevention and as Solution of Issue?

As result they are "called" by Secular Authorities as any other "human" organization to pay for mishandling and "ignorance" toward own members who suffered as victims. And to pay millions of $ from voluntary donations that was Dedicated and Given by JW people for God and Kingdom News and NOT for Court and Out of Court Settlements in to private pockets!!!

Such kind of Self Importance, Humble Superiority, Elitism on religious basis, because they think about self as The Only People on Earth who doing God's Will. That is really Big Burden on their backs to carry on. 

But despite all objective problems that ones have to face in dealing with molestation issue, with or with out The Laws (worldly laws), JW Religion who's "Founder" is no one else but God, can not have excuse, especially not in a way You wish to present to us, how WT depends on Wisdom of this fallen World.       

Things in Life are weird sometimes :))