Srecko Sostar

9 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@Srecko Sostar Scream Loud and Run Away? What Bible verse says that?

We should not be fighting anyone at all. Some people like to try and provoke JWs to fight so they can record that information to weaponize it.

A Christian can defend themselves but clearly cannot make an attempt to kill someone. 

This is the difference of a Christian who does this compared to a Christian who believes he can be armed to attack and kill a man, a woman, or a child if they are seen as a threat. 

React quickly. Scream. (Deuteronomy 22:25-27) Escape or fight back using the  element of surprise. And, if possible, run to a safe place and call the police. *   - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201305/protect-yourself-from-crime/

SECOND INSTRUCTION:

On the other hand, what if a person’s life is threatened by an assailant? A law that God gave to ancient Israel sheds light on this. If a thief was caught in the daytime and was killed, the assailant would be charged with murder. This was evidently because thievery did not carry the death penalty and the thief could have been identified and brought to justice. However, if an intruder was fatally struck at night, the householder could be exonerated because it would be difficult for him to see what the intruder was doing and to ascertain the intentions of the intruder. The householder could reasonably conclude that his family was under threat of harm and take defensive action.—Exodus 22:2, 3.

The Bible thus indicates that a person may defend himself or his family if physically assaulted. He may ward off blows, restrain the attacker, or even strike a blow to stun or incapacitate him. The intention would be to neutralize the aggression or stop the attack. This being the case, if the aggressor was seriously harmed or killed in such a situation, his death would be accidental and not deliberate. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102008204

WELL now, if in publication (and in Bible Law) authors giving space for PHYSICALLY defend self, with unknown outcome of such fight, why JWorg ban members to learn how to defend ???? self and others from crime attack???

Perhaps we should include a certain measure of the concept of "dualism" (we are bad and good) in the activities of a particular person, and hence a group and people in larger number. 

In some period of time and history of human, events that was came to existence are "responsible" for the emergence, the formation of individuals and people who made such influence on people's life. For some people they looked as positive or semi-positive actors, but for other (victims) they are very evil.

When i mentioned Bible reports, in my previous short comment, and as title of this subject give/it opens the picture of David and Saul and their involving in killing people of, not just so called enemy, but own people. And no matter is it question of one or few or 100 or 10 000 or 1 million and more, we can see how some of them are "peacefully" get old and died without been "punished" for crimes.

David, man who is mentioned so many times in various context, is the one (not only he) who is responsible for dead at least of one man, Uriah, and in some indirect way, of baby he had with Bathsheba. (No prison), no dead sentence, no abdication.

What is Bible message? Maybe this one:

If God like you so much, He will spare Your life because of some "higher reasons". Because He need You (like He "need" David) to accomplish some "prophecies". But if God "kill" you (because You are guilty, at the end of a day) then His plan will, may be "suffer" .... ?? and whole Future of Mankind, Kingdom, etc. will be in "jeopardy" :))))  

Perhaps, in that period of time, Great Britain had need for Churchill, Yugoslavia need for Tito, USSR for Stalin .... to safe them from some other "dictator" (Hitler for example). What choice we have?  Run away from the lion and meet the bear? JW rune from Pope and meet GB. Dualism in both choices. Final Ending is predicted. All other, in meantime, is matter of "luck".

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

we have ample examples in history of despots killing as many people as they wish and getting away with it

Bible book history contains similar reports.

While I was a little boy, I wanted to be a cop ... on a motorcycle. Later, in the age of teenage years, I liked films with martial arts. At the same time, my parents became JW and learned me differently. Then I became JW. And I did not become a cop who would hunt these bastards !!!
Today ... I'm not all that I could possibly become, but I'm not even a JW any more. I'm glad that I left.

The problem, with JW and similar groups, is that "they do not want to learn to fight", according to Isaiah verses.  But, they do not want to learn to defend themselves or others who need help in trouble, too. Adult JW or JW children should not go to self-defense courses because such an idea opposes JW's beliefs, religion. JW instruction, according to some biblical advice, is to scream loud, or run away. Sometimes that helps, but ..... to oppose the evil bastards you need much, much more. And I do not see, if God want to intervene (???) in your personal life (and not only in your life but in life of all other people who are victims), why He would not give you (and them) His approval in fighting against criminals. 

People needs to go slowly through life. That means .... walk barefoot, and watch/look/see aka learning around yourself. :))

23 hours ago, Witness said:

Which made me curious about the U.S.  I am sure it probably already has been brought out here at some point.

https://www.childhelp.org/child-abuse-statistics/?gclid=CjwKCAiA0ajgBRA4EiwA9gFOR6BV2G7R1syZW2qmKOv37Dgo1GzPeKHXcBya6QjQWRA48-QCTfiWvhoCMI8QAvD_BwE

In 2014, state agencies identified an estimated 1,580 children who died as a result of abuse and neglect — between four and five children a day. 

TERRIBLE!!

I take liberty to mirror this video that shows very important details for JW members, especially for those who will found themselves in front of 3 elders in "back room". 

Some information's was available from "Flock book" ("Shepherd book") also on this Forum, that revealed how human with power in their hands can be, and are questionable in their acts and intentions.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

asking questions

Asking questions is one of most important things in whole/every human lifetime. It does not existing (there are no) "stupid" questions or "forbidden" questions in normal human interactions. We have "stupid" or really stupid answers on some issues. Our fears and taboos, imposed rules of "good behavior" are an obstacles to getting answers on questions we have, but not asking. But such questions sometimes are not existing in our life because we let other to "thinking" instead of us. And also not existing because we thinking or we are so sure how we already know some answers and how such answer is true and reveals all what we need to know. But what a mistake and fallacy it is to think that way. 

Imagine how it would look like, that Eve began with questions ..... to Snake, to Adam, to God?? That would be very interesting, tense, difficult conversation if all parties would participate in conversation. And imagine if Eve would had courage and self confidence and all that what you need to have, to be, for investigation in searching... what is going on here!!?? 

One of biggest problem in WT and JW org community is lack of freedom, lack of culture to ASK QUESTIONS of all SORTS. For all, young and old, male and female. Questions that can be directed, addressed to all. Without limit. Watchtower and JW religion, in this issue, are as/similar to all other "organizations", too.  

:)) 

20 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Good comment, but I wouldn't limit it to those who are believers and participate in some organized religion.

Thanks. Agree with you. Limitation in my comment is only because of character of subject and Title of this issue and because participants of Forum  who are in most religious persons or have interest in religious/spiritual thematic.

2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

They may have believed ....but they were as wrong as ....

I would like to say how this few words can explain many things that happened in Jesus case and also in today life of people who are believers and participate in some organized religion.  

19 hours ago, limmy said:

Apostles in the first century were also infallible

Somewhere is written how all of them, or at least some of them, was inspired while speaking, writing and doing some deeds , or they did not? Perhaps i misunderstand some Bible verses. But in moment of inspiration by god, you can not be infallible.. or you can be?  Yes, various bible scholars teaching something opposite than some other scholars. 

About Governing Body. This class (Management group) was not existing in 1 Congregation. But in every group some people want to be First and Leaders, that is true. :)))

7 hours ago, Anna said:

Didn't Paul say we should treat ones who have left as tax collectors? 

Yes, he said what he said about tax collectors and religion rules. Old Law said too, how to use stones for example ....etc.

Question is: Do You, Me, and All Other have to do/to work, to think according to The Words? Or by Interpretations of The Words? Or by .... whatever?

In every Paradise (in all sort of Paradises) existing/there is The Snake.

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

For example, the Bible allows for a husband to disfellowship his wife. (The Bible never allows for a wife to disfellowship (divorce) a husband, by the way.) But are we under Mosaic rules for divorce just because it is Biblical? In fact, Jesus said that even though it was Biblical, it wasn't what Jehovah really wanted.

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus doesn't say Moses wasn't inspired when he made the Biblical concession for divorce as one of the laws in the "perfect" Law covenant. But Jesus rejects this particular "jot and tittle" of the Law as a mere concession for human hard-heartedness, especially because it was being misused in practice.  "Hard-heartedness" is a form of having "no natural affection." (See my earlier post on this topic.)

I believe that You, who are deeply thinking person, are very aware of how strong, a tectonic power to break, has the content/context of this example and a message that stand inside.

5 hours ago, The Librarian said:

It is happening!!!

We get reports from Russia, about the computerized file created by the Russian government with the addresses of all Jehovah's witnesses who wrote letters last year, supporting their brothers.
According to Daniel's prophecies, Gog will seek a world attack by directing a group of loyal nations, the king of the north, against Jehovah's witnesses.
Coincidence?

Do you suggest how Russian secret services will sending back, perhaps, "poisoned letters",  to all JW who wrote? And that will create Global Attack as prelude for Armageddon?

27 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It's great advice. I like it, so far as it goes.

You will consistently be against any restriction on tobacco, alcohol, drug, medicines, safety requirements such as wearing hard hats or buckling seatbelts. Are you?

Food is, i think, most dangerous (in countries where food is available for people who have money to buy it). And also stuffs you mentioned too.    

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I will ask you the same question that I asked the big boy: “Without such congregational tools of discipline, which do come across as harsh in today’s world,  is it possible for a group to keep its core moral values over time? Do you know of any examples?”

Please do not respond with what “should be.” Respond with what is. Do you know of any examples?

The best example History gives us (but this is not Final Solution of course//Endlösung der Judenfrage//) of how to make people behave in Discipline was visible (perfect tense) in people stoning for braking The Law, or killing in some other way. As some text say "If you can't  or don't want living by The Law ... then Die by The Law. 

23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Sometimes it is not enough to say that you want to diet. You must also padlock the fridge.

Perhaps this can be one way of solution to overweight.

But consider another advice.

If you have not power to eat less and visiting your fridge less frequently, you can try with more activity, running, walking, exercise according to your age and health etc. 

Also to eat different food, not just food you eat everyday, until now, maybe can bring to better health and body shape.  

Or to change way and time, how and when you eat.

:)))) just opinion.

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I'm asking for the verse/passage in question that you brought up, not prophecy

I am the door (the gate); if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Srecko Sostar So how would you interpret that verse if you don't mind me asking?

... no prophecy of Scripture, or parables or moral lessons comes from someone’s own interpretation.....

I don't mind you asking me. But my understanding of this or that has a certain, temporary value only for me in fact. In this moment i do not see what importance, about this issue, my interpretation would bring to you S.M. You are Bible scholar of sort, and Jesus and his teachings leaves its influence on every person in a specific way, as well on You too. Let put this to/on Him (not to me) to make interpretation for your spiritual need. :))  

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The GB and it's Org do not have the key to the gate

I am the door (the gate); if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This shameful illustration proves how wrong it is to twist publications to simulate a point

No dear Billy, i am not twisting WT publications quotes. Under their influencing spirits, what ever source those spirits are, message in articles and public talks showed how looks the hierarchy in this structure we called Organization, Society, Congregation, Company, Corporation and other titles that are official and unofficial terminology in JW organization. 

15 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The Watchtower doesn’t govern anyone’s life.

Your conclusion Billy is not correct :))

14 GOVERNING BODY

9 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

to blaspheme

????

Please, where is boarder line when one thing stops and another coming?? Is such line existing or is that area including (not only black/white protocols, rules, paragraphs, list of blaspheme emotions, list of blaspheme thoughts, list of blaspheme words and list of blaspheme deeds) more than we think we know about it? 

I think how our decision to not say a word about such crucial things in our life, about Us and Him and what we feel and think about some thing or about all things, that make us feel this way or another, is suppressing the core problem of/in our life, and about our relation to God and people too .   

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Let’s ask the people of Yemen first if they received a turkey dinner last Thursday.

In one old manner of behavior (Job and God question answer, sort of "polemical" conversation) we can ask Almighty God also this;

Dear God you have all Love, Wisdom and Power and you also teaching people to do good and to love other people. In fact your inspirational words are: "Therefore, whoever knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin."

I do not understand and i am very disappointed and confused, when looking at You and see your passive attitude toward all pain, injustice, suffering of every creature on Earth. Your servant James told something about it, but I do not get why he told something like this? You announced person as guilty of sin if not doing right thing if he knows. Even knowledge is enough to be guilty. But many times people have no power and wisdom and they can not do it. Maybe because of fear too. But You, as God, You are not as earthly man.....????? 

Interesting and weird in same time. JW not celebrate "holidays", in fact all kind of holidays. JW have not any holidays, not participate in religious or worldly colored celebrations.  

 They "celebrate" only one thing. Death of Christ. How can people celebrate death? With One Hour (or less) of sitting and listening in KH.

On other side this same God likes celebrating very much. He made a special instruction how to celebrate. WT publications explaining, for example, this: 

  The distinguishing mark of the Festival of Booths, the primary nature of it, was joyful thanksgiving. Jehovah’s desire was that his people should rejoice in him. “You must rejoice before Jehovah your God.”

During this festival the number of sacrifices offered was greater than at any other festival of the year. The national sacrifice, starting with 13 bulls on the first day and diminishing one each day, totaled 70 bulls sacrificed, besides 119 lambs, rams, and goats, in addition to the grain and wine offerings. During the week, thousands of individual offerings would also be made by the attenders. (Nu 29:12-34, 39) On the eighth day, on which no laborious work could be done, a bull, a ram, and seven male lambs a year old were presented as a burnt offering, along with grain and drink offerings, as well as a goat as a sin offering.—Nu 29:35-38. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001505#h=6

Past Holidays of "the only true religion" aka Old Israel Nation,  was including enormous amount of material things, slaughtering, blood, food to eat etc. And in all this things, every person "must rejoice" before God. I do not know how about you, but for me it will be very strange, uncomfortable to participate in all this commanded rejoicing, meat and maybe food overeating.

Today, "the only true religion" aka WT-JW, going to another extreme. They rejecting ALL holidays as official religious standard. JW religion even consider how Sunday's ice-cream after KH gathering is unnecessary joy, the questionable celebration for JW children. Why? Perhaps because it is kind of selfishness? Body weakness? Worldly custom?

Or, it is all about money!! If you spend your money for celebration in your home (or out side home) with your family and friends, then WT will receive less money, because you have spent your money on yourself not on them.  :))