Srecko Sostar

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

he GB has had 12 members at one or two points in its official existence (since about 1971). It once had 18 members at the same time. But I think they have purposely avoided trying to keep it at 12 or 13 so that it is not seen as a kind of "apostolic succession" associated with a couple of other churches. People would surely complain that it would be a sign of haughtiness to present themselves as modern-day apostles.

hehe, Jesus and 12 GB members ... 70 helpers (2x35 sending in service)

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

So the illustration wasn't about serving perfect food, just about the attitude and motives we should all have when we handle our Christian responsibilities.

Agree with your explanations how more important, or if we can say also, only important thing is, what we are, who we are, what sort of person we are and want to be.

If it is so, and how almost all of us here agree with such view, i believe, then all such Corporative and  Organizational  preparing and sharing of so called spiritual food ( read WT publications and talks) is/are almost unnecessary, meaningless or redundant. Why? Because of never ending process of going beyond what is written, and striving to keep members in obedience to man (WT Corporation), not to God. 

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute.

Does this means how someone claims "that God indirectly gives the GB spiritual food" ?

If yes, what does it look like such "indirect way"?

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But it's also true that Christians should expect that some who devote themselves to the hard work of teaching are worthy of double honor.

Double honor?? For what "hard work of teaching" dear Insider? For repeated wrong interpretations? For new "clarifications" that will come to be called "previous errors", "wrong expectations" and other phrases in WT terminology?  :))  

Every, each time this "new clarification" make JW members to have, not new clarification, but NEW HOPE, because "this time this must be true" ..in mind (read fantasy) of person only. :))

15 hours ago, Anna said:

That is not my objective at all, to make someone better or worse.

i meant, better or worst Decision Maker :))

15 hours ago, Anna said:

Does one person have more facts than the other upon which they base their decision? And what are those facts?

i don't know :))

4 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

f his concern was with all institution he would have stated this, but he has not, for his one and only focus, as it is evident in half of his posts, is regarding Jehovah's Witnesses only unless you want to point out to where his concern is drawn out elsewhere - be my guess.

that is his right, and his decision. maybe will change in this or that direction. so it is not good from you to criticizing his stand in this in this particular moment :)) 

6 minutes ago, Anna said:

As far as I know @JW Insider is an active Witness. If so, perhaps he would like to explain why he didn't leave the org. 

making comparison on why one person do something and other not is not useful, it can be interesting to hear of course, but not giving that something for us what can move us in right direction. Right for us personally. JW Insider or you Anna have same or similar information as John, but not making same or similar steps. 

I know  JW brother, some kind of friend (ex friend), some 10 years older then me. He said me few times similar stuff or different in time of my "waking" about WT. But he still is in. And he still talking against and about some things about "organization". So, what make him better or worse than me, or someone else here or there? :))  

23 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, take in consideration space/time  determinants in one or more definition that you, or someone else here, would/will give

Screcko

I am unclear what your understanding is

To give more clarification. JW under influence of GB have "mantras" that said; Light gets brighter, FDS aka GB are not inspired but are guided,  We have The Truth, and similar.

In that sense (as general view of WT) JW are as "continuation" of unique Christian congregation of 1 century and "continuation" of apostle and Jesus "unspoiled" teachings about God and holy scriptures, and as such, they have own "world that belong only to God", or they are "part of God's world", as i understand your state.

But as we see also "continuation" in doctrinal changes and by that in behavior and acts that are allowed or stopped to be  allowed, or that are forbidden or stopped to be forbidden, shows that idea of "been part of God's world" have changing effects in life of JW.  JW said how JHVH is god who can not and not change, but his followers and worshipers aka JW  making changes with justification how such changes coming from god , but in same time explaining how JHVH is in fact unchangeable :))). In fact GB try to prove how same teaching JW have now is the same teaching apostles and Jesus had before and vice versa, teaching that apostle had is same that JW have now. 

So, all is "the same" and all is "as in first century congregation", but light gets brighter or changes are viewed as normal evolution process despite the claim how JW nowadays just imitate first congregation and living as first Christians. This is strange idea. WTJWorg try to explain something that is not true in fact. Enumerate how primitive congregation was preach, not went  to warn not celebrated pagan holidays and some other stuff is nice, but to making never ending changes and flip-flops of doctrines and in same time proclaiming himself as the successor to the first church is funny.

:)) sorry for "cryptic", unclear English language sentences. People who are able to understand me have that something in brain that helps  to see what i try to explain :))

29 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Screcko

I am unclear what your understanding is. My point is to John 15:19. In Christian life, there is no middle ground. Either you have faith that God will progress your understanding or you do not. Those that stand in the middle as some do, find themselves not just questioning the authority God has put in place on earth, and at times questioning his own words listed in scripture.

According to scripture, this is the worse definition to admit by saying I am Christian, and not really mean it. What good does this do, if God knows our heart? Psalm 139: 1-24

Ask yourself, is scripture not true? Do you believe Jesus was set aside to discuss Child marriage? Do you think Christ saw to put someone on trial? Or did he condemn them personally?

 

It is about this you have said: "The distinction is where you have proven yourself to be. Part of this world, or part of God's world. There can be no intermediaries between this two conditions."

Jew people, old Israel, was been "part of God's world" and they killed a lot of own people and non-Israel people. For many century that is how looked like past "part of God's world". 

Then we have Jew-Christian and non Jew Christians and short time of how their "part of God's world" looked like.

Then we have all other scenery of 1 century post Christian era with Roman Christian and other National Christian denominations as "part of God's world".

Now, also the same. And JWORG as separate "part of God's world" World.

:))  

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The thing here is, I am speaking of all institutions as well as the world, even JWs - as I have told you perhaps 10 times or more.

For if child abuse was of great concern to you, you would be focused on anywhere and everywhere child abuse is done, therefore unlike you my interest is everywhere, even that of human sex trafficking granted those who claim to "help the people" were doing the opposite, as with the grooming gangs in UK and other things.

I can almost agree with you. Some people have greater concern than others. I do not know how John's  feeling and thoughts going on this issue, would he be activist or somehow involve himself in revealing problem in and out of JWORG in helping all other victims of child abuse no mater from what religion or institution they coming from.

But SM, you have to consider also one very, very important thing. WTJWORG teaching members that is of NO USE to repair, to reconstruct, to reform, to RESTORE this old world and global situation. WHY? Because "new world" is so close, so why to spend time on useless activity :))))) In other words WTJWORG say; God will fix all anyway.... so few victims more or less, why to worry, in new system in Kingdom they will not memorized nothing bad from own past!!! You JW , go to preach and not go to Court for Justice because God will take care of you. :))

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Child Abuse will always be an issue because the world seems to openly accept such a thing, some wanting it to be a sexual preference and the like.

SM, when you say "the world", that also including "WTJWORG world" in general concept of word "the world" too? :))

16 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Can you prove the Watchtower willingly hide child abuse Elders as the Catholic Church has done with their priest?

To prove? People who are educated in searching, investigating, and have resource and are legitimate for entering inside system as Watchtower Company, have to be people from outside of "Organization". Of course, some "Insider" can be helpful in providing further details and introspective information to such team of people.    

In every religious organization (here are of great concern such organizations) exist people who have interest to hide and people who have interest to reveal. WT JWorg is not above this "human influence" :))) 

20 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

or part of God's world.

It will be good to define, to hear, to give definition from your side what means - "Gods world". 

Please, take in consideration space/time  determinants in one or more definition that you, or someone else here, would/will give.  

21 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

to find reputable men to continue Christ teachings

Many religions of Christian orientation claim to have people who are credible and have the reputation of true Christians who continue Christ teachings.

WT is not exception in that way and not hold exclusivity in such claim, or in your claim. :)) 

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

I wonder why there are no comments from jws on this thread? 

ahhh this "worldly" journalist.... you can not believe them.... they speaking "lies"  about WT, JW, "the truth" :))))))

18 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, he is right on that. @Admin should take that under consideration before he goes Howard Beale on us again.

He? Who is he? Me or Srecko or somebody else you talking with :)))))

12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

@Srecko Sostar By no ones recommendation. Granted if the care for God and giving oneself up to God in Sacred and Devoted Service is an option to such ones, it isn't a crime to do that. God's Son gave command to adhere to the Great Commission, it is a command not to be taken lightly, let alone being like that of a living sacrifice in terms of total service to God.

So it wouldn't be stupidity, granted with if one is aware of the situation with higher education in the US itself. No one is going to stop anyone however I think the concern is being spiritually weak and the possibly to being open to what the Freemasons are doing in the schools regarding prepping young ones via frat houses and the like if such are selected. Another fear would be sexual immorality i.e. You can have a daughter going to Rutgers and she will possibly be a target, granted a lot of things of the like is taking place, and lastly, Gang-Stalking, it does not only happen to people of color or racial background, nor does it only take place in the churches, it happens in the schools too.

Bad things happens to all of us, in home, kindergarten, school, workplace, on holidays ....etc.

Well, choice to doing "normal" stuff as going to higher education is, have to be matter of your personal choice and NOT RESULT OF DOGMATIC TEACHING, INSTRUCTION, ADVICE, COMMENDATION of Church Leaders. 

About "stupidity". There is two sort of that connected to comment i made. One came from naivete , inexperience, or natural lack of reasoning for some stuff. Other came because we alone make us (and with help of others people too) to believe something and have strong feeling how we make best decision.

Religion (and not only religion) have that power to make us so sure in wrong things. Don't you think the same?      

short intermezzo to relax before working Monday 

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Srecko, you are much better than me at explaining this and it seems you have more patience too.

Well done. 

And yes, the reason the GB and the JW Org don't want witnesses to talk to ex - witnesses is because they don't want the congregations finding out the real truth about things such as Pedophilia, or past failures, wrong predictions etc.  

Thanks ones more time John. Patience? haha, sometimes i have more, sometimes less, but yes it can be said how i enduring some situations too long or longer than other people. Who knows why? :)))

With more or less success from my side , but it can be tell how it is given to me this skill, gift to present or give some thoughts on certainly subject. Not always of course, in rare moments for sure :)))) It would be easier for me to speak on my language in compare to written words in Croatian too. In English with help of G+translator or some grammar page, dictionary - but tenses are primary deficiency on my part.

Greetings from Zagreb!     

On 7/4/2017 at 12:06 AM, JW Insider said:

If you are already in college, we won't tell you to drop out, but we commend you if you do.

I know (knew :),  2 JW  sisters (siblings). They came from small town near Zagreb, in my ex congregation. One of them finished higher education. In meantime she found, meet (i don't know exactly how) one brother from USA,  he was/is in Betel headquarter NY. She married to him and went to Brooklyn headquarter ( i think this took place before  cca 5-8 years).

Her sister stayed in Zagreb, quit education in a middle of study or before ending, not sure, and she went to Zagreb Betel. I don't know if she is still in, because WT reduced Betel stuff before few years, and many was  gone in pioneer service  or looking for secular job. 

By what, whose  man commendation, recommendation, advice, friendly support? Or by own stupidity? Or both?

11 hours ago, Anna said:

In view of last weeks WT study "Do you have the facts" (August 2018, page 3) and thanks to @Gone Away for highlighting the following reports, I thought I would put this in a separate and concise topic to show an actual and recent example of misinformation.

NEWS REPORT: (I cut it a little short because the article went on about the ban in general. You van read the whole thing here: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/five-jehovah-s-witnesses-detained-in-russia-investigators-10812938)

MOSCOW: Five Jehovah's Witnesses have been detained in Russia and charged with possessing weapons and running an extremist group, investigators said Wednesday (Oct 10, 2018), in the latest case targeting the banned religious movement.

They were arrested in the Kirov region northeast of Moscow, where authorities said they found two grenades and a landmine in searches of their homes.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are a Christian denomination that originated in the United States in the late 19th century.

The Russian authorities consider the movement a totalitarian sect and last year the country's supreme court banned the Jehovah's Witnesses from operating in Russia.

"They had been conducting meetings and called on others to join their organisation," Yevgenia Vorozhtsova, a spokeswoman for regional investigators, said.

She said officials were investigating how the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses had obtained the ammunition, but declined to provide further details.

Yaroslav Sivulskiy, a member of the European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses, said it was the first time the Russian authorities had accused members of the movement of possessing ammunition.

"We were shocked," he said from the Latvian capital Riga. "It is both funny and strange. Why mines?"

One of those detained was a Polish national residing in Russia, he said.

 

THE FACTS: (here I took the liberty of slightly adjusting the translation by Google, so it made more sense)

On October 9, 2018, in the city of Kirov, during a search of the house of retired Vladimir Bogomolov, a collector of artifacts from the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945), investigators seized fragments of obviously unusable rusty shells. The man was searched because his 69-year-old spouse (the only one of her entire family) professes the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. The woman does not share her husband's fascination with antiques. Thus, the report that the ammunition was seized allegedly from Jehovah's Witnesses is not true.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not take weapons for conscience reasons. For this position they appeared before tribunals of different countries and went to concentration camps. They will be grateful to the media for clarifying the misunderstanding .

Vladimir Bogomolov, from whom the relics were confiscated, was in the past an active participant in a search movement (aimed at burying the remains of the soldiers who died in World War II), he was the brigadier of the search party. The activities of his squad were written about in newspapers. On October 9, 2018, upon the discovery of the artifacts, a criminal case on the illegal possession of weapons was instituted, it was allocated in a separate proceeding. The items were sent for examination.

 Source: https://jw-russia.org/news

 

 

Anna , i am not laughing at your post. But must laugh on situation that took place. It can be that old man collect gun artifacts, but if it is forbidden by law, it is funny, strange, against her conscience maybe, but also normal on other hand (she living with him), that his wife, JW sister, not reported to police this "criminal behavior" of her husband :)))))

2 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Comma and Coma are 2 different things, Srecko.

Other than that I tend to over use commas to keep things separate. Somewhat of a habit.

You can not resist to "correct" people, to giving lessons,  don't you?

I am very well aware of difference, but rhyme is so,  so good and as "cryptic" message it suits to me well.

But why trying to, attempt to  explain..... when you know almost everything :)))))))))))))))  

On 10/12/2018 at 2:38 PM, Space Merchant said:

these folks wouldn't lift butter knife at someone.

Yes, i agree with statement. General intention of JW is to be peaceful.

If some weapon would be found in home of JW in USA i would not be surprised. USA have some culture of weapon in some States, as i can see from Europe :))))) across a Ocean.

But, there is some JW with short nerves and it would be possible to see some fight, by words and by hands too  . :))))  I know for some fight, while i was went to kingdom hall before some 8-10 years in Zagreb, between JW members, who are of Romani people. Some issue with business and money of course, ( i do not think it is about women... but that can be a reason sometimes too, haha)

What should a member of the JW community do?

JW TV and publications does not provide balanced news regarding events related to the WT organization and the legal aspects involved, such as court cases concerning pedophilia and failure to report such events to secular institutions.

It also forbids JW members to contact the former JW, even to say simple "hello" on street or wherever. Even when they (GB of WTJWORG) allowing a JW member to talk to their excluded family member who living in the same family (house, under same roof - literally, because if exJW not live in same family place, instructions are that JW have to cut all possible contacts), WT prohibits them from discussing so-called "spiritual things." Because they consider that the former JW could be repulsive and "fool", spoil the true JW witness with "inaccurate proofs" and "apostate teachings".

What does the magazine "Awake" say about whether to listen and to be familiar with the opposing views? Here is what WT consider as "positive". It is in context of "evolution issue" but we can see "the principle", don't we? Would you, do you use the same principle and be careful and wary about WT claims how "all is apostates lies"?! Quotes are as following;

Examine the Evidence

IF YOU were on trial in a court of law, would it be fair if only your opponent was allowed to present evidence? No, you would surely want the court to hear your side of the matter.

Reasonable persons agree that the only fair method is to examine the evidence on both sides, both for and against a disputed theory. That is how one arrives at the truth.

But, as physicist L. Dolphin wrote to the San Francisco Chronicle: “It is intellectually dishonest to fail to answer some of these problem areas in textbooks, and to exclude other scientifically based models on the grounds that they are merely fundamentalistic religious beliefs.”

Truly it is “intellectually dishonest” not to want any opposing views heard on such a disputed matter. It has to make reasonable persons ask, Why?

Reasonable persons also consider it unworthy of serious scholarship to try to stamp out criticism of evolution by dictatorial methods, by intimidation, or by attitudes such as that of prominent American scientist Isaac Asimov, who said that questioning the theory of evolution is like “attacking the theory of gravity.” He added: “It’s a fact, not speculation.” But gravity can be demonstrated, tested, and proved in the laboratory and elsewhere. Evolution cannot, which is why so many are challenging it. No one is challenging the idea of gravity.

Trying to insult the intelligence of critics of evolution to silence them is especially “intellectually dishonest” when many evolutionists themselves admit that the theory has not been proved.

No, it will no longer do to try to browbeat or insult persons who challenge evolution, or to imply that they are intellectually deficient. To get to the heart of the matter, we have to put the “guessing” aside and honestly analyze the facts that are available.

What happens when we do examine the facts, without the “guessing”?

end of quotes from https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101973762    Awake 22 10 1973, page 7.

How do you feel about this? "Old truth" but truth :))))