Srecko Sostar

I know (knew :), 2 JW sisters (siblings). They came from small town near Zagreb, in my ex congregation. One of them finished higher education. In meantime she found, meet (i don't know exactly how) one brother from USA, he was/is in Betel headquarter NY. She married to him and went to Brooklyn headquarter ( i think this took place before cca 5-8 years). Her sister stayed in Zagreb, quit education in a middle of study or before ending, not sure, and she went to Zagreb Betel. I don't know if she is still in, because WT reduced Betel stuff before few years, and many was gone in pioneer service or looking for secular job. By what, whose man commendation, recommendation, advice, friendly support? Or by own stupidity? Or both?

Anna , i am not laughing at your post. But must laugh on situation that took place. It can be that old man collect gun artifacts, but if it is forbidden by law, it is funny, strange, against her conscience maybe, but also normal on other hand (she living with him), that his wife, JW sister, not reported to police this "criminal behavior" of her husband :)))))

You can not resist to "correct" people, to giving lessons, don't you? I am very well aware of difference, but rhyme is so, so good and as "cryptic" message it suits to me well. But why trying to, attempt to explain..... when you know almost everything :)))))))))))))))

Yes, i agree with statement. General intention of JW is to be peaceful. If some weapon would be found in home of JW in USA i would not be surprised. USA have some culture of weapon in some States, as i can see from Europe :))))) across a Ocean. But, there is some JW with short nerves and it would be possible to see some fight, by words and by hands too . :)))) I know for some fight, while i was went to kingdom hall before some 8-10 years in Zagreb, between JW members, who are of Romani people. Some issue with business and money of course, ( i do not think it is about women... but that can be a reason sometimes too, haha)

What should a member of the JW community do? JW TV and publications does not provide balanced news regarding events related to the WT organization and the legal aspects involved, such as court cases concerning pedophilia and failure to report such events to secular institutions. It also forbids JW members to contact the former JW, even to say simple "hello" on street or wherever. Even when they (GB of WTJWORG) allowing a JW member to talk to their excluded family member who living in the same family (house, under same roof - literally, because if exJW not live in same family place, instructions are that JW have to cut all possible contacts), WT prohibits them from discussing so-called "spiritual things." Because they consider that the former JW could be repulsive and "fool", spoil the true JW witness with "inaccurate proofs" and "apostate teachings". What does the magazine "Awake" say about whether to listen and to be familiar with the opposing views? Here is what WT consider as "positive". It is in context of "evolution issue" but we can see "the principle", don't we? Would you, do you use the same principle and be careful and wary about WT claims how "all is apostates lies"?! Quotes are as following; Examine the Evidence IF YOU were on trial in a court of law, would it be fair if only your opponent was allowed to present evidence? No, you would surely want the court to hear your side of the matter. Reasonable persons agree that the only fair method is to examine the evidence on both sides, both for and against a disputed theory. That is how one arrives at the truth. But, as physicist L. Dolphin wrote to the San Francisco Chronicle: “It is intellectually dishonest to fail to answer some of these problem areas in textbooks, and to exclude other scientifically based models on the grounds that they are merely fundamentalistic religious beliefs.” Truly it is “intellectually dishonest” not to want any opposing views heard on such a disputed matter. It has to make reasonable persons ask, Why? Reasonable persons also consider it unworthy of serious scholarship to try to stamp out criticism of evolution by dictatorial methods, by intimidation, or by attitudes such as that of prominent American scientist Isaac Asimov, who said that questioning the theory of evolution is like “attacking the theory of gravity.” He added: “It’s a fact, not speculation.” But gravity can be demonstrated, tested, and proved in the laboratory and elsewhere. Evolution cannot, which is why so many are challenging it. No one is challenging the idea of gravity. Trying to insult the intelligence of critics of evolution to silence them is especially “intellectually dishonest” when many evolutionists themselves admit that the theory has not been proved. No, it will no longer do to try to browbeat or insult persons who challenge evolution, or to imply that they are intellectually deficient. To get to the heart of the matter, we have to put the “guessing” aside and honestly analyze the facts that are available. What happens when we do examine the facts, without the “guessing”? end of quotes from https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101973762 Awake 22 10 1973, page 7. How do you feel about this? "Old truth" but truth :))))

sometimes is comma, and sometimes is coma, :)))))

Absolutely agree JTR. That is why i put Awake questions. Questions are "tailored" in a way to lead to the desired answers with the help of the chosen interlocutor.Â

AWAKE!: WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT LIFE PROVIDES EVIDENCE OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN? AWAKE!: WHY IN YOUR OPINION DO THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES DISAGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSIONS REGARDING INTELLIGENT DESIGN? AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO CRITICS WHO CLAIM THAT ACCEPTING THE IDEA OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN PROMOTES IGNORANCE? AWAKE!: HAS SCIENCE PRODUCED ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT EVOLUTION, BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION, COULD HAVE CREATED THE COMPLEX MOLECULAR MACHINES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT? AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THOSE WHO POINT TO FEATURES OF PLANTS OR ANIMALS THAT THEY CLAIM ARE POORLY DESIGNED? They are opportunist. :))) ... a person who takes advantage of opportunities as and when they arise, regardless of planning or principle. someone who tries to get power or an advantage in every situation. using a situation to get power or an advantage (a condition giving a greater chance of success)

quotes in continue shows how WT does not know what Genesis talking about: Zions Watchtower Dec 1881 The Creative Week “If the seventh period of creation in which the Father rested is seven thousand years long – as shown above – so are the other six periods; and so we have seven times seven thousand years…” The Watchtower 1/1/1951 p. 27 The Christian’s Sabbath 7,000 years for each of the creative days as well as the rest day is consistent with the Scriptures. The Watchtower 8/1/1954 p. 478 The Purpose of Your Witnessing Each creative day was 7,000 years in length. See “New Heavens and a New Earth”, pages 40-43. Awake! 11/8/1982 pp. 6-9 Science and the Bible The Bible record, together with verifiable history, indicates that the seventh day of that creative week covers a period of 7,000 years. Hence, each of the six preceding “days” would be of the same length. The Watchtower 1/1/1987 p. 30 Questions From Readers a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days is 7,000 years long. The Watchtower 1/1/1993 p. 4 Our Grand Creator and His Works In an orderly sequence of six ‘creative days,’ each thousands of years in length The Watchtower 4/1/1996 p. 13 par. 10 Praise the King of Eternity! Wonderful developments took place on earth during the six creative “days” of Genesis chapter 1, each day covering thousands of years. The Watchtower 2/1/2003 p. 4 How to Cultivate a Balanced View of Work at the end of the six creative “days,” or long periods of time, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good” Awake! 9/22/2003 p. 21 Science Was My Religion the creative days lasted aeons Awake 1/22/2004 p. 23 Why I Believe the Bible—A Nuclear Scientist Tells His Story the creative “days” encompass thousands of years The Watchtower 4/1/2004 p. 6 Identifying the Wild Beast and Its Mark God’s creative week comprises seven ‘days,’ or extended time periods The Watchtower 1/1/2004 p. 28 par. 3 Highlights From the Book of Genesis—I the six creative “days,” or time periods of special creative works The Watchtower 2/15/2011 p. 8 par. 10 Holy Spirit—At Work in Creation! These are not 24-hour days but are epochs. Awake! 11/2011 p. 9 Which Approach Is More Reasonable? Each day evidently involved a considerable length of time. Awake! 3/2014 p. 5 How Long Did God Take To Create The Universe? each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years. On other side WT teach about how long human exist is: Timeline “In the beginning . . .” 4026 B.C.E. Adam’s creation 3096 B.C.E. Death of Adam HOW LONG LAST "THE ADAM DAY", 7th day? ARE HUMANKIND NOW IN THE DAY 7? IF YES, WHEN WILL be the END of that day? BECAUSE IT CAN LAST AS EPOCHS, AS CONSIDERABLE LENGTH OF TIME, AS MORE THEN 7000 YEARS. :)))))) Will KINGDOM of 1000 years come before the end of 7th day or after the end? Or inside of 7th day? However JW would count, it can be that they must wait for hundreds or thousands of years or eons of time to see that day. SO, WT have to change all concept and doctrine on few teachings and ideas that covers these few issues.

yes, WT say so. But despite that, they not want to accept science counting, numbering when they said how humans are much, much older then 6000 years. Animals, plants and other organism are counting in millions of years. So, something looks wrong in WT teaching /Bible interpretations/ how human society, starting, beginning of human, is just 6000 years+ old.

Yes John, our "friend" SM are Master in making fog and not to give direct, simple and honest, sincere respond or answer on some very important asking, question that would reveal His real position about JW. Armageddon is topic here and we can not get SM simple and direct respond, despite the very significant title that Librarian put in question.

Many people are "stick" to scripture for many century till now ....and what human got from that? Many members in many religions "stick" to scripture ....and ?.... they are all, in fact, in disagree - HOW TO "STICK". And as same result on issue, You offer Your view how should me, Witness, etc "stick" to scripture according to Your vision. Please SM,... call me as you wish, go and explain other people here, who and what i am according to your perception, but wake up yourself from the dream about self picture you build about own role in defending few or more religious systems that leading people in to confrontations and holding them in, keep them in opposing camps. By your "correcting" some people here, if some say something against Judaism, Islam or JW ...or perhaps some else church , you are in fact not defending one thing, guess what thing? You said as this: I, SM defend JEW "Truth", defend ISLAM "Truth", defend JW "Truth". Please remind me again WHAT TRUTH You in fact wish, want to defend??!! :)))

Do you think that WT need You to correct things on what people say, talking about their (JW) religion?

May i ask, do you find no error in WT history about all what they said and teach and interpret on Armageddon issue ?

if i understand correctly.... SM not speak primarily to me but to background audience :)))

As i see you support Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses. Does Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses support you as Unitarian and Unitarianism as movement?

Dear friend, if you are so busy in helping people in need, how you find time to respond on "stupid" things and loosing your valuable time on me and similar like me.?! Â

:)))) i need to give you some smile and laugh about your methods of teaching. In almost all your respond, not only to me, but especially to me i will say... You using all past and present and future commentary on all kind of comments, conversation, reactions that i, as your interlocutor made in mutual responses and even wider, that i made to someone else. It's pretty boring, if you have not noticed, and if that has not already been said to you by someone else. Please, try to focus your response on actual subject and not to disperse, spin discussion from Adam to Melchizedek to Revelation book. :)))

Incorrect. There things some have common ground on, but not similar. Example some faiths believe God has a literal wife and a couple of wives/concubines, other faiths do not, but both believe their is a God. There are those who believe there are thousands and thousands of Gods, and others believe in 3, while others believe in 1 God, that God being the Father. ohh Space, why you are so reckless? And why you put my quote out of context that is given as response to other participant of this conversation? Why you have to act similar as ......"Like one who grabs a stray dog by the ears is someone who rushes into a quarrel not their own." Do you see yourself as person who have to put in right all things that is not right according to your own sense of "strictness" and your own feeling of "righteousness"? Relax ... it is better. You will not change the World no matter as much you want and as much you try :))) Why not to learn something from others, why not let others to "correct" your way of correcting other people :))))

members of other religions have same or similar beliefs also Holy book said to pray for Secular kings and rulers who not trying Well, it will be good not to be "strict" to much about many things mentioned here :))

It is possible to understand your position. You are person who cannot stand some situations and emotions in other people life. Perhaps you think how they alone are "guilty" for theirs problems. It can be and it does not have to be so. Please explain how do you "survive" Mr. Lett and some other JWTV presenter who "crying" for money on behalf of WT Corporation? :)))

..very funny but a little silly to ask such. If John Butler in his trying to imitate Jesus sometimes compare own acts with that of Jesus, what is bad in that? Many christian people doing the same, even JW members doing the same on global scale (Conventions for example) If some JW or fading JW or exJW came to this or that conclusions (wrong, right, questionable, too intensive) on some issues, that is quite normal for every human. The day will come when person maybe change his thoughts in some other direction. I ask my self sometimes also, Why i participate in discussions like this one on this forum. I will never come back to JWorg so why i have to or need to involved myself in this. Maybe 40+ years in this religion is reason. Or i need more time to cut all mental and emotional connections, nexus and memories. Must be a process. Something else, perhaps my profile make me to act in this manner. World is bigger than me and bigger than WT. Life is around us and will be without me and without WTJWorg too. I hope i will lose interest on JW subject and get some life that is somewhere here, but i have to find this space/time dimension :))))))))) and Shuttle rocket. What you think, is there hope for me? :)))))

.... do not worry about it SM. We all working on fruits of Spirit :))))))

Yes i believe! In fact i have no need to just believe. Something about is written in Bible. Paul was excellent example. “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but raised in this city. I was educated at the feet of Gamaliel in strict conformity to the Law of our Fathers. I am just as zealous for God as any of you here today. 4I persecuted this Way even to the death, detaining both men and women and throwing them into prison,… As such member of Jew community he was very stubborn in self idea how he got the truth and how god's will for him is to speak and prosecute other people who disagree with his STRICT idea !!!!

Words you mentioned as "pejorative" and "labels" are just words. With words we differentiate things and we give them meaning. In reality, there are no bad words or pejorative, insulting words. There are people, groups of people who give their own new meaning when they apply it to other people or groups of people. Some word is not obscene or insulting because it consists of certain letters. There is a street words for a sex organ, and there is a medical word for the same thing. None of them is rude. Because they actually mark the same thing. An example is the word "apostate". It is used in certain circles (such as WTJWorg) to mark people who are members of the JW community but have different religious ideas. And some of these "apostates" remain within the JW community and some leave. This forum meets people of different religious thoughts, beliefs, belongings. This group on this forum could be called the "interfaith group". :))) The intention here is not to unite all of these people into a multi-faith community, but to represent, defend, challenge religious ideas. Many of the used words are not the fabrication of the one who writes them, but are in use for a long time. Those involved in the discussion know what they are talking about. Of course, the words that was apply in text can hurt the feelings of the other. But sometimes this can not be avoided no matter how much an author of the text seeks to be objective .... or unwilling to be. The fact we living in 21 century does not exclude, not canceled, does not delete important fact that is reason for division - there are always Us and Them. Unfortunately, Nobody can Change This "Primitivism". (even this word "primitivism" has at least two different labels, connotations :))))