Srecko Sostar

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Sometimes I use Audio punctuation (spoink!)

Especially in sentences (cank!) depending on the structure (cank!) where commas are necessary (spoink!)

sometimes is comma, and sometimes is coma, :)))))

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Never waste an opportunity to sucker-punch or blindside someone who is ignorant enough to believe your motives are honest, and your interview will represent what you really think.

EVERYBODY has an agenda.

There are no exceptions.

Absolutely agree JTR. That is why i put Awake questions. Questions are "tailored" in a way to lead to the desired answers with the help of the chosen interlocutor. 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They have published an interview with Michael Behe,

AWAKE!: WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT LIFE PROVIDES EVIDENCE OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN?

AWAKE!: WHY IN YOUR OPINION DO THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES DISAGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSIONS REGARDING INTELLIGENT DESIGN?

AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO CRITICS WHO CLAIM THAT ACCEPTING THE IDEA OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN PROMOTES IGNORANCE?

AWAKE!: HAS SCIENCE PRODUCED ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT EVOLUTION, BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION, COULD HAVE CREATED THE COMPLEX MOLECULAR MACHINES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT?

AWAKE!: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THOSE WHO POINT TO FEATURES OF PLANTS OR ANIMALS THAT THEY CLAIM ARE POORLY DESIGNED?

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Are they dogmatic at JW headquarters?

They are opportunist. :)))

... a person who takes advantage of opportunities as and when they arise, regardless of planning or principle. someone who tries to get power or an advantage in every situation. using a situation to get power or an advantage (a condition giving a greater chance of success)

8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

the point the Watchtower has.

quotes in continue shows how WT does not know what Genesis talking about:   

Zions Watchtower Dec 1881 The Creative Week

“If the seventh period of creation in which the Father rested is seven thousand years long – as shown above – so are the other six periods; and so we have seven times seven thousand years…”

The Watchtower 1/1/1951 p. 27 The Christian’s Sabbath

7,000 years for each of the creative days as well as the rest day is consistent with the Scriptures.

The Watchtower 8/1/1954 p. 478 The Purpose of Your Witnessing

Each creative day was 7,000 years in length. See “New Heavens and a New Earth”, pages 40-43.

Awake! 11/8/1982 pp. 6-9 Science and the Bible

The Bible record, together with verifiable history, indicates that the seventh day of that creative week covers a period of 7,000 years. Hence, each of the six preceding “days” would be of the same length.

The Watchtower 1/1/1987 p. 30 Questions From Readers

a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days is 7,000 years long.

The Watchtower 1/1/1993 p. 4 Our Grand Creator and His Works

In an orderly sequence of six ‘creative days,’ each thousands of years in length

The Watchtower 4/1/1996 p. 13 par. 10 Praise the King of Eternity!

Wonderful developments took place on earth during the six creative “days” of Genesis chapter 1, each day covering thousands of years.

The Watchtower 2/1/2003 p. 4 How to Cultivate a Balanced View of Work

at the end of the six creative “days,” or long periods of time, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good”

Awake! 9/22/2003 p. 21 Science Was My Religion

the creative days lasted aeons

Awake 1/22/2004 p. 23 Why I Believe the Bible—A Nuclear Scientist Tells His Story

the creative “days” encompass thousands of years

The Watchtower 4/1/2004 p. 6 Identifying the Wild Beast and Its Mark

God’s creative week comprises seven ‘days,’ or extended time periods

The Watchtower 1/1/2004 p. 28 par. 3 Highlights From the Book of Genesis—I

the six creative “days,” or time periods of special creative works

The Watchtower 2/15/2011 p. 8 par. 10 Holy Spirit—At Work in Creation!

These are not 24-hour days but are epochs.

Awake! 11/2011 p. 9 Which Approach Is More Reasonable?

Each day evidently involved a considerable length of time.

Awake! 3/2014 p. 5 How Long Did God Take To Create The Universe?

each of the six creative days could have lasted for thousands of years.

On other side WT teach  about how long human exist is:

Timeline

“In the beginning . . .”

4026 B.C.E. Adam’s creation

3096 B.C.E. Death of Adam

HOW LONG LAST "THE ADAM DAY", 7th day?                                                                                                                                                                                   ARE HUMANKIND NOW IN  THE DAY 7?                                                                                                                                                                                                IF YES, WHEN WILL be the END of that day?                                                                                                                                                                                            BECAUSE IT CAN LAST AS EPOCHS, AS CONSIDERABLE LENGTH OF TIME, AS MORE THEN 7000 YEARS. :))))))    

Will KINGDOM of 1000 years come before the end of 7th day or after the end? Or inside of 7th day? However JW would count, it can be that they must wait for hundreds or thousands of years or eons of time to see that day. 

SO, WT have to change all concept and doctrine on few teachings and ideas  that covers these few issues.                                                                                           

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However now they say they don't know how long a Creative day was. 

yes, WT say so. But despite that, they not want to accept science counting, numbering  when they said how humans are much, much  older then 6000 years. Animals, plants and other organism are counting in millions of years. So, something looks wrong in WT teaching /Bible interpretations/ how human society, starting, beginning of human,  is just 6000 years+ old.   

20 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Strecko, i see SM does not answer you question. Such a shame as he thinks he is so clever. 

SM forgets that this is a JW forum, which includes the W/T. 

He seems to know what the JW Org believe but does say if he thinks they are right or wrong, which is what you have asked. 

His only response is to return with a question. Perhaps SM thinks he is copying Jesus. Asking a question in response to a question.

But we know that the Bible Students / the  GB / JW org / Wt, have got it wrong on predictions of Armageddon.

Yes John, our "friend" SM are Master in making fog and not to give direct, simple and honest, sincere respond or answer on some very important asking, question that would reveal His real position about JW.

Armageddon is topic here and we can not get SM simple and direct respond, despite the very significant title that Librarian put in question. 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

as I told Srecko and Witness, stick to the scripture,

Many people are "stick" to scripture for many century till now ....and what human got from that?  

Many members in many religions "stick" to scripture ....and ?.... they are all, in fact, in disagree - HOW TO "STICK".

And as same result on issue, You offer Your view how should me, Witness, etc "stick" to scripture according to Your vision.  

Please SM,... call me as you wish, go and explain other people here, who and what i am according to your perception, but wake up yourself from the dream about self picture you build about own role in defending few or more religious systems that leading people in to confrontations and holding them in, keep them in opposing camps. 

By your "correcting" some people here, if some say something against Judaism, Islam or JW ...or perhaps some else church , you are in fact not defending one thing, guess what thing? You said as this: I, SM defend JEW "Truth", defend ISLAM "Truth", defend JW "Truth". 

Please remind me again WHAT TRUTH You in fact wish, want to defend??!!    :)))

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

It's not a support, it is merely correct the wrongs here. Like I told you before, if you say something that is in error, about Judaism, Islam and or even things of the Bible, I will speak, even if you say something out of line regarding JWs, I will speak,

Do you think that WT need You to correct things on what people say, talking  about their (JW) religion?

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Anyways, discussion, Armageddon,

May i ask, do you find no error in WT history about all  what they said and teach and interpret on Armageddon issue ? 

27 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The trick is not to primarily speak to him, but to speak to whatever audience may be in the background?

if i understand correctly.... SM not speak primarily to me but to background audience :)))

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

You are dealing with a Unitarian

As i see you support Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Does Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses support you as Unitarian and Unitarianism as movement?  

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Not out of context, it is actually true, hence why I put forth the examples.

I don't mind the insult because I am unfazed, this is going from a man who has seen things you consider unreal.

And no, everything uttered is exact truth unlike your claims of Peter being tempted or Chloe leading a church.

I don't. For as said to you before I am bounded by what the Bible says, what the church teaches, what comes from God, his Christ and the Word that is written. I am bounded by my culture in terms of respect, truth and integrity and so forth.

I speak what is right because such ones like to cloud information, such ones base their belief on opinions and emotion, not realizing what is the actual truth in the matter.

That being said, tell me Srecko, how am I basing everything on my own feelings and emotion, in this sense?

And no, my culture does not allow to be prideful and or righteous, nice try though.

I am always relaxed. I have changed lives, I have made a bit of change in the world, in my own country when it was hit by an earthquake and have witnessed death and a list of other things, even coming face to face with the occult that has plagued the islands, to add more salt to injury, our children was nearly taken into human trafficking and someone who was fighting against it was assassinated and his death ruled out to be a suicide and yet we still press forward. I helped out in Texas and even Puerto Rico when it was hit by the hurricane, when Sandy hit in 2012, I helped out on rebuilding the shore. I went to Africa and Thailand and met some good people, some of which who didn't know God, and the list goes on. I do not care what I was given, I do not do things to show off, I did such things because I choose to for God's people are able bodied and will give a helping hand.

Others can have their say, but surely no one is going to accept correction from a man, who stated God isn't surprised about people who change not just their sex, but their literal reproductive organs. It is thinking like that that shows you are not putting into application of God's Word let alone confusing Barak for Deborah, purposely, if you forgot that one.

If you want to "correct" show me evidence your Chloe claim, as with Peter's temptation because when I asked you, you dodged and evaded several times. Perhaps this time you can speak to correct something you yourself know to be false.

Dear friend, if you are so busy in helping people in need, how you find time to respond on "stupid" things and loosing your valuable time on me and similar like me.?!  

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

If you consider Apostle Paul as an example you would not have been speaking negatively of Abraham in the first place, or his wife, Sarah. You would not have spoken slander when you and Witness attempted to defend religious leadership roles given to women in modern day when such was forbidden and unheard of in the past or the whole Temple Chest thing you had an issue with.

And you've yet to show me anywhere in the Bible to your claim of Chloe being the Leader of the Church of Corinth - to which is unfounded, therefore, you have broken God's Word about those who add to the scripture when you are not suppose to. Tough cookies, Srecko, you cannot giggle your way out of that one.

You directed your last response towards me being stubborn and persistent. So how is it this time I am somehow a Jew part of a Jewish Community? I have studied a bit of Judaism, but I do not see how man who's roots is traced back to the mother land, Africa, is somehow a Jew.

Followers of God were strict also, for they wanted people to not be led astray and they were persistent in their word so the church remains clean of the accursed. Therefore, you example or point is totally meaningless.

That being said, be strict on what the Bible says, mainly on what Paul said about Orderly Worship in terms of God's Order, is a mercy towards you.

Also you are using those verses out of context....

Then work harder because need to show yourself to be God fearing. I guess perhaps in the future I might post questions via thread so it is neutral whereas both anyone even JWs and hop in, for I have came across some very complex questions with actual answers, so if anyone were to stop you guys on such, you should be able to answer.

That being said, Srecko, I will have to point out, for truly I say to ye, that what you have spoken of regarding Chloe is a lie, and the biblical facts I provided to you, use that for your study and research.

Remember these verses:

• Proverbs 9:8 - Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you.
• Proverbs 15:31, 32 - [31] The ear that listens to life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise. [32] He who ignores discipline despises himself, but whoever heeds correction gains understanding.
• Proverbs 19:20 - Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future.

Do not be a forgetful hearer, be one who listens, Srecko. And read your Bible.

:)))) i need to give you some smile and laugh about your methods of teaching. In almost all your respond, not only to me, but especially to me i will say... You using all past and present and future commentary on all kind of comments, conversation, reactions that i,  as your interlocutor made in mutual responses and even wider, that i made to someone else. 

It's pretty boring, if you have not noticed, and if that has not already been said to you by someone else. Please, try to focus your response on actual subject and not to disperse, spin  discussion from Adam to Melchizedek to Revelation book. :)))

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

members of other religions have same or similar beliefs 

Incorrect. There things some have common ground on, but not similar. Example some faiths believe God has a literal wife and a couple of wives/concubines, other faiths do not, but both believe their is a God.

There are those who believe there are thousands and thousands of Gods, and others believe in 3, while others believe in 1 God, that God being the Father.

ohh Space, why you are so reckless? And why you put my quote out of context that is given as response to other participant of this conversation? Why you have to act similar as ......"Like one who grabs a stray dog by the ears is someone who rushes into a quarrel not their own."

Do you see yourself as person who have to put in right all things that is not right according to your own sense of "strictness" and your own feeling of "righteousness"?

Relax ... it is better. You will not change the World no matter as much you want and as much you try :))) Why not to learn something from others, why not let others to "correct" your way of correcting other people :))))  

14 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:

All dedicated servants of God know that Jehovah's Eyes are Everywhere. 

members of other religions have same or similar beliefs 

14 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:

Why not Pray for mere humans who are TRYING to determine Gods will.   

also Holy book said to pray for Secular kings and rulers who not trying

Well, it will be good  not to be "strict" to much about many things mentioned here :))  

41 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

 Who cares what "john butler" does or says?  I cannot stand a cry baby.

It is possible to understand your position. You are person who cannot stand some situations and emotions in other people life. Perhaps you think how they alone are "guilty" for theirs problems. It can be and it does not have to be so.  

Please explain how do you "survive" Mr. Lett and some other JWTV presenter who "crying" for money on behalf of WT Corporation? :)))

8 hours ago, Paul Dedee said:

Jesus experience is documented in scripture. Is yours?

..very funny but a little silly to ask such.  If John Butler in his trying to imitate Jesus sometimes compare own acts with that of Jesus, what is bad in that? Many christian people doing the same, even JW members doing the same on global scale (Conventions for example)

If some JW or fading JW or exJW came to this or that conclusions (wrong, right, questionable, too intensive) on some issues, that is quite normal for every human. The day will come when person maybe change his thoughts in some other direction. 

I ask my self sometimes also, Why i participate in discussions like this one on this forum. I will never come back to JWorg so why i have to or need to involved myself in this. Maybe 40+ years in this religion is reason. Or i need more time to cut all mental and emotional  connections, nexus and memories. Must be a process. Something else, perhaps my profile make me to act in this manner. World is bigger than me and bigger than WT. Life is around us and will be without me and without WTJWorg too.

I hope i will lose interest on JW subject and get some life that is somewhere here, but i have to find this space/time dimension :))))))))) and Shuttle rocket. What you think, is there hope for me? :))))) 

7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

My reason for somewhat long posts

.... do not worry about it SM. We all working  on fruits of Spirit :))))))

10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

If you believe that someone who speaks truth is stubborn,

Yes i believe! In fact i have no need  to just believe. Something about  is written in Bible. Paul was excellent example.

“I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but raised in this city. I was educated at the feet of Gamaliel in strict conformity to the Law of our Fathers. I am just as zealous for God as any of you here today. 4I persecuted this Way even to the death, detaining both men and women and throwing them into prison,…

As such member of Jew community he was very stubborn in self idea how he got the truth and how god's will for him is to speak and prosecute other people who disagree with his STRICT idea !!!!  

10 hours ago, admin said:

I would just like to state for the record that as the owner of this website... I do not like pejorative labels.

LABEL and KILL seems to be the way most groups continue to operate nowadays.

I realize that all you different religions are free to exercise what you believe in.....

however I would like to push MY OWN POINT of thought that we ALL should try to stop using labels on people.

I keep seeing different religions on here use the pejorative label "APOSTATE"...... 

Why does anyone in 2018 still subscribe to this antiquated way of thinking?

 

And IF by chance you still do subscribe to this religious mentality .... please realize that the rest of the world doesn't care about how you label others.

They have MOVED ON.....

Try to keep up people.

This technology alone is proving far superior to any fear based religion. Both pro and anti religious groups should try to avoid labels and stick to facts.

- End of rant.

p.s. - I still use the label SPAMMERS in a pejorative sense. Nobody is perfect. 

Words you mentioned as "pejorative" and "labels" are just words. With words we differentiate things and we give them meaning. In reality, there are no bad words or pejorative, insulting words. There are people, groups of people who give their own new meaning when they apply it to other people or groups of people.

Some word is not obscene or insulting because it consists of certain letters. There is a street words for a sex organ, and there is a medical word for the same thing. None of them is rude. Because they actually mark the same thing.

An example is the word "apostate". It is used in certain circles (such as WTJWorg) to mark people who are members of the JW community but have different religious ideas. And some of these "apostates" remain within the JW community and some leave.
This forum meets people of different religious thoughts, beliefs, belongings. This group on this forum could be called the "interfaith group". :)))

The intention here is not to unite all of these people into a multi-faith community, but to represent, defend, challenge religious ideas. 

Many of the used words are not the fabrication of the one who writes them, but are in use for a long time. Those involved in the discussion know what they are talking about.

Of course, the words that was apply in text can hurt the feelings of the other. But sometimes this can not be avoided no matter how much an author of the text seeks to be objective .... or unwilling to be.

The fact we living in 21 century does not exclude, not canceled, does not delete important fact that is reason for division - there are always Us and Them. Unfortunately, Nobody can Change This "Primitivism". (even this word "primitivism" has at least two different labels, connotations  :))))

Watchtower logic is like this:

What we told and what we teach is true. Now we just have to wait for new information's that will prove opposite or different. Meanwhile, all who would disagree with us must go, in this way or another.

:)))) haha .. for my opposers

5 minutes ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Keep in mind the Watchtower is NOW! Enforcing their copyright material, and this website has been added to that list of violating copyright material. Since this site is far from being academic, and laughable to think so, STOP! Infringing on copyright material.

The Watchtower will also prevent their copyright material to be archived on other websites that are NOT their own. Good luck!

Well said Allen!

And what to think about "water of truth", for free, without no charge, to buy without money and without so called "copyrights", that Jesus promised to all, and that have to be available for all, for people to be able to get everlasting life ::)))

What a funny reality, what a parody, what a shame to trade with "The Truth". And all in the name of Law, Secular, Worldly Law.

But when Secular Law said give us documents about this and that, then WT said, we must obey god more then you :))))))))

12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

On 10/3/2018 at 11:48 PM, Anna said:

The last person who was inspired by God or Jesus was the apostle John, on the isle of Patmos, when he wrote Revelation. 

... dear Anna, if you open NWT Bible on page 1578 and 1579 (in Croatian edition 2006) authors of translation quoted how John (apostle) wrote 1,2 and 3 John in a year cca 98.

So, book of Revelation is the book that placed on last position of Bible, but last written was those 3 letters, not Revelation, according to WT.

That is what John Butler noticed about comment you gave. And that is just that. Nothing more. Not John Butler not me made up things about this issue. We just read NWT Bible and check information about "last" inspired words that found its place in Bible books.

By the way does anyone know what was the name of that Catholic Roman Pope who ccollected  "inspired" books and letters and then decide what one of all will be part of Bible - Catholic Bible of course. Later came Protestant Bible. And later came NWT Bible. And in the middle there is many other Bibles too.       

:))

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I do not know if what you say, I respect your belief, is false or genuine,

Thanks to heaven, people  have no  power to read other people mind and motives.  

But, thanks to heaven too, other people have power to be suspicious about other people words. Also to be stubborn and persistent in that. 

:))))

19 hours ago, Gone Away said:

I will not go to such lengths to untangle reasoning of this type in the future, so, respectfully, I request that you give a little more thought to your reponses. ?

I am like Moses, man of few words, not know how to talking. Even in my Croatian language i spending day in less talking than other people. In English i have problem with grammar and structuring Croatian way of sentences to English way. ;)))

So, please accept my  apologize for that. This is me, ....you can kill me but this is me :)))))