Srecko Sostar

6 minutes ago, Martha Braun Amistadi said:

We come to know the "ring" of truth as we study it prayerfully and diligently. Our minds and hearts accept the logic as facts fall in to place clearly. Jehovah's holy spirit opens our minds and hearts wide to understand what we are reading. Right food at it's proper time. Then, what's unique above all, is how the Bible's teachings are accepted by millions of people in just the same way as we believe, in our time. This is unifying and Jehovah liberates us from a world of division by what Jesus said at John 17:17: "Your word is the truth." The Bible is God's expression, breathed into the mind of men, handpicked by him to accomplish this beautiful guide for life. It's a comfort to hear our Father's voice when we read the Bible.

thanks for respond 

On 5/24/2018 at 10:54 PM, Anna said:

Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such a report.

What we can extract from this statement?

That some elders criticize those who made reports?

That some victims and their family was not report crime because of fear of elders criticism?

.....and/or more?

but we see next statement:

On 5/24/2018 at 10:54 PM, Anna said:

The elders’ handling of an accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter.

By this, all cases (past and present) must be made known to authorities. Then Why in USA WT not gave documents to Court when they ask? Or by free will to police?

On 5/24/2018 at 10:54 PM, Anna said:

A member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

On 5/24/2018 at 10:54 PM, Anna said:

If it is determined that one guilty of child sexual abuse is repentant and will remain in the congregation

Again, elders and others who know about this crime have to read again this sentence in JW document:    The elders’ handling of an accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter.

Just one of many changes WT made in recent years. 

¹⁹ In review, what have we learned? In the beginning of this article, we raised three “when” questions. We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914 but will start when the United Nations attacks Babylon the Great. Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914 but will occur during the great tribulation. Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation. So, then, all three “whens” apply to the same future time period—the great tribulation. How does this adjusted view further affect our understanding of the illustration of the faithful slave? Also, how does it affect our understanding of other parables, or illustrations, of Jesus that are being fulfilled during this time of the end? These important questions will be considered in the following articles.

source of paragraph: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013530

Here in this paragraph we see just some of many changes from past teachings in Watchtower ideology.

Well, questions are as follow:

What is The Truth?
Can The Truth Stop To Be True?
Does The Truth have the Owner?
Why do some people like to claim that Only They know a Certain Truth?
Does some Truth exists outside of our awareness of the existence of such truth?
Why do we argue how some Truth or Truths can never change?
Why can not we name The Truth, which has ceased to be true, that it is a Lie or at least Not The Truth?

Do these truths from paragraph 19 cease to be true on the day of publication in the Watchtower Journal on July 15 2013 or are they, in fact, have never been The Truth?

17 hours ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Therefore, the sword became a symbolic item, not a literal one as you wish it to be.

Symbolic or not, sword cut down the ear of one man. Or do you suggest that the ear also became symbolic item?  

17 hours ago, AllenSmith34 said:

As for Jesus entering a house of ill repute. It wouldn’t have been in his nature as a rabbi.

⁵ While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. ¹⁶ When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” Mark 2

10Later, as Jesus was dining at Matthew’shouse, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with Him and His disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”…Mat 9

34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, andyou say, ‘Look at this glutton and drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and of sinners!’ Luke 7

18 hours ago, AllenSmith34 said:

But Jesus did make a point of a woman back then, people called her a prostitute for her adulteress behavior. What was Jesus being tested for, and what life lesson did Jesus give? John 8:7. Therefore, he compared everyone to sin, and that was his prophecy to become the ransom sacrifice for all. So, he didn’t just martyr himself for just that one woman. What did Jesus tell the woman? John 8:10

In WT revised Bible chapter 8 beginning with verse 12. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/study-bible/books/john/8/

So i have to ask, what kind of gospel from chapter 8 you talking about? :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 

"The big question now is where are you drawing temptation from in regards to the whole passage itself in this chapter? No cross-references to the passage alludes to temptation at all."  ......Space Merchant ask me, and answer is; 

Dear readers of this issue, here is the origin, source of the word TEMPTATION mentioned for the very first time.  And we see who first who put this word in circulation of our discussion. :))

On 9/17/2018 at 3:05 PM, AllenSmith34 said:

Srecko

Srecko, if you read Luke correctly, you will find 2 things about the sword. Peter’s denial, and Jesus praying in mount olive for his apostles not to enter into temptation. What did Peter do with the sword that Jesus had to correct? Therefore, what did Jesus tell Peter to do with that sword?

20 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Why would it have been wrong for Peter to use a sword on that occasion?

It is not wrong, in my opinion.

But some other people here have different opinion.

21 hours ago, Anna said:

I am not saying this as a rule, but in all honesty, could it be said that masturbation never leads to sexual immorality, or thoughts of it? 

If i understand English sentence construction correct you said 2 separate things, correct me please if i am wrong, or give me explanation.

1) masturbation never leads to.... sexual immorality with another person?

2) masturbation never leads to .. thoughts about sexual immorality  with another person?

Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi

25 minutes ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Jesus was not causing his apostles to stumble, but giving them a life lesson.

James said, ³ When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 

Well, if neither Jesus nor JHVH tempted Peter with putting a sword in his hand, but only gave him a lesson with some simple command or imperative and obligated sentence addressed to Peter and other in group,  "to buy and  carry a sword", would it be the same that God or Jesus tell to disciple to go to whorehouse with him and after when some of his disciple have happy time with some of the women there, Jesus told to those who experienced fun time, "You see my friends, it is not good to do this what you have done. I brought you here to give you this important lesson."  

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

moneybags [a purse] is also mentioned but last we talked you didn't believe they carried any

SM please be more careful about putting your ideas and words in my mouth about what i told or not told. Our conversation about money was in different context. I never said how i don't or didn't believe in "carried a purse". SM, SM :)))))))))   

19 hours ago, AllenSmith34 said:

What is Bible truth versus human behavior?

sinners ......first thing came to me in this moment........

....then we can count some other attributes too......................

1 hour ago, AllenSmith34 said:

The fact that Srecko made an attempt to justify placing the word love in a position to reflect some erred assumption (firemen) triggered that debate.

Ohh Allen, Do you really want to say how i am the one who put you in temptation and dragged you in this discussion?? :))))) 

1 hour ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Jesus praying in mount olive for his apostles not to enter into temptation.

Well yes, it is ok what Jesus put in his prayer. But he personally ask them to have sword/swords with them at that temptation moment. Why would Jesus intentionally stumble his friends and made them to do something what is wrong? Because of fulfilling the prophecy? Or Jesus made some parables,  enigmatic message, hyperbole, secret teaching?

Why would Jesus ask them to CARRY swords, when he knows very well that his followers can, might be put in temptation to use it? Or did Jesus want that sword to be used? 

Anyway, Jesus gave Peter just advice about what could happen if you use lethal weapon in confrontation with other people. Interestingly, after healing the ear of injured man, Jesus gave no explicit command to Peter how he is guilty of breaking JHVH Law or Jesus Law.

9 hours ago, AllenSmith34 said:

No argument there

I think we have argument in Bible report about last night when Jesus said this:

³⁶ He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. ³⁷ It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’^[b]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

³⁸ The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That’s enough!” he replied.

3 hours ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Jesus was making the framework

I can say how i like his framework. But maybe i can say also how i am not always in agree with WT interpretations of Jesus framework :))

6 hours ago, Anna said:

They both understood that it doesn't mean that there is no love, or that the love is conditional, or that there would never be any help.

I can accept how faithful JW member "understood"  WT Policy in this issue.

But if dfd or dsd person are still in the "WT frames/chains of such understanding" then her/his mind are far from normal and healthy mental state. Because he/she dance on same music together with JW member who dictate his/your behavior in relation to him. And that is not good.

7 hours ago, Gone Away said:

As Jesus said we should treat disfellowshipped ones as "man of the nations and as a tax collector", then I'l leave you to work out the conscientious application? of the principles of his Good Samaritan parable in such a case.

I had already knows this application with/to  Samaritan. My questions was  for those who forget what is answer :))

Thanks to you they hear now. It is better that this is heard from someone else here, not from me.   

9 hours ago, Anna said:

Who has greater love; someone who does something for the greater and long term benefit of a person, despite the extreme emotional hurt it causes themselves, or someone who does something believing it is only a temporary fix and will not benefit the person in the long run, but it's easier on the emotions?  You can apply any scenario here. Perhaps a parent with a drug addicted child, or an alcoholic...etc. It's called tough love.

We have no way of knowing, but perhaps the "mother" may give her life to save a Catholic if the opportunity presents itself one day.....

tough love

ˌtəf ˈləv/

noun

noun: tough love

1. promotion of a person's welfare, especially that of an addict, child, or criminal, by enforcing certain constraints on them, or requiring them to take responsibility for their actions".

    

    

General idea of going throughout personal inside trouble of mind and soul as cure is acceptable. General idea how society, people around such person, family or some group have role in this is also acceptable. General idea how some methods in this process are necessary, identical in approach, painful for all involved are also acceptable. 

But because every person is unique, and how similar stuff they going through is not the same stuff in everyone life, has specific details for every one in particular, people who "helping" need to adapt their approach and methods to each case in a special way.

WT scenario in video made "special effects", because The Company determined for each actor what to play and why he/she would have such words, feelings and thoughts and such reaction/interaction. In video case daughter, allegedly, need family surroundings and/or just parents voice "and this small dose will satisfy her"!!

What if she had been in need for more then a "small dose"?!. Some persons fall in desperation, is suicidal emotions. What if daughter made suicide after unanswered call?? Because this can be very real Life scenario that WT want to escape for manipulative reasons on convention's public. What would parents, and mother especially, who not want to respond on phone,  think of WT helping methods "for the greater and long term benefit of a person" after funeral of their daughter?? 

AllenSmith34 said:

Are we overextending ourselves in this scenario? Are we talking about Someone's duty as a paid individual to help others? or is it FAITH based?

There are certain aspects of your post, that is expected for those that get paid to help.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Jesus spoke of laying your life for your CHRISTIAN brothers.

If my memory served me, Jesus told how he lay life for his FRIENDS, the 12 (even Judas is in it).¹² My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. ¹³ Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.¹⁴ You are my friends if you do what I command. ("if you do what I command" ... sort of conditioned love?)

And now we shall go to Romans chapter 5;

⁶ You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. ⁷ Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.⁸ But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. ("while we still sinners" .....sort of not conditioned love!)

To continue; Did Jesus here "OVEREXTENDING" his scenario? He was not gave life ONLY for his 12 friends or some imagine future "Christian brothers". He gave life for all people. And inside all people exists all sorts of people - good, bad, sinners, righteous and unrighteous, JW, Catholic, Republicans, Democrats.... and whoever else.

Who have duty???.... Who have faith???....................NO, question is  Who have love? ------ FOR LAY DOWN OWN LIFE FOR YOUR?    

Please, what you have to correct in this??!!

1 hour ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Titus 1:16 Context: Correcting False Teachers

 

16They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their actions. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.

Who is unfit in good deed for save your life from fire? Fireman?

:)) Allen, Allen

3 minutes ago, AllenSmith34 said:

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This could mean that JW should give life not only for his brother in faith but also for a brother who is not in faith

Sorry to disappoint. When we learn scripture correctly, you will find that some questions become technical. This is one of them. Jesus spoke of laying your life for your CHRISTIAN brothers. So, unless a former witness is repentant, there is NO! Redemption. So, NO! It doesn’t apply to those that are of faith and have no remorse. Pay attention to the words in scripture.

Titus 1:16 Context: Correcting False Teachers

16They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their actions. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.

Now, if you’re referring to laying down your life for a stranger, that’s a different story. Therefore, scripture is clear in this matter.

Well, let me to think ones again.....??!!!&&&&##$$$$$*****xxxyyyyzzz&&&&&====///..... OK i am ready now. 

If Mr. Fireman, who happened to be Catholic,  come to some JW family burning house and loses his life by saving JW  brother elder's wife or children then what will we say? We can say how he haven't Christian love, explained by WT what Christian love is and how has to look, , but he was maybe paid to save your life? Was he paid to lose his life to save your? No. But some people have strong affection,  or strong  sense of responsibility, or strong  desire, wish to help someone who need help. 

Well, who have "love" or greater "love"? JW mother who not want pick up phone for her daughter or Catholic who put his life for person who is not Catholic?

Another problem with such love presented in WT publication, where and when are talking about Christian love that is ready for giving life for brother in faith, is in video "evidence" when mother don't want to pick up phone when dfd daughter calling her. What "proof" such instruction show us? What love is in person who claim and teach how has love that is ready to give life for all other but not ready to pick up phone for own daughter? 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

We don't have that ability to discuss on jw.org or in the congregation.

This is "The Truth" too :))

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Even....

I can agree with general idea you present. 

For sure, we can find the truth on various places, among all sort of group of people. We can find the truth  even on the African plains, where the lion must eat the zebra to remain alive. And a zebra must exist so that a lion may have something to eat. And this "evidence" is a "proof" how The Truth looks like on this level. From this example, i am sure, you can understand where my thinking goes sometimes.

So, we on Earth have many Truths, with many Shapes and many Sorts. 2+2=4 is also The Truth. Hurricane Florence is also The Truth and affect people's life. Bad inclination of human heart is The Truth as also it is compassion from the same hearth. Catholic also have some Truths. What shall we do with so many Truths?? And what shall we do with something that looks like Truth? What we shall do with something that stopped to be Truth? What we shall do with Half Truths, what with Lies? 

I can believe how JW, but also other smaller denominations, religions, groups of all kind can build connections in a way you described. Even worldly school children can make positive connections with children in came class or in another town or country. There is a mutual visit of a student from one school to another. Some of them manage to create lasting links.  I believe that it is case with the people of other social groups, religious and non-religious, too.

I had the opportunity to travel and visit JW in other European countries. And some of JW from the other countries met me here in Croatia and invited me to visit. Some acquaintances lasted longer, some shorter. When I visited some assemblies in other countries, some JWs came to meet me, some did not care about having a guest who came for the first time in their congregation. Some people are getting in touch, and some do not. Certainly, human relationships are complex and something attracts us and something rejects us from others. That is life. And our fantasy and imagination and expectations are something else, even in a "worldwide brotherhood". 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

And as to "depth," ideally, we should be willing to protect one another, or even give our life for one another as if we were all members of the same literal family.

I think the Bible has several various paragraphs on this subject, about giving oneself to others, even to the point of giving life. At this level, there may be a problem because it is spoken, taught, by almost all people, and also by other religions, not just JW; "God loves all people to such a degree that He gives his Son to die for Human, Jesus loves all people to such a degree that he has given life to the righteous and the unrighteous." 

This could mean that JW should give life not only for his brother in faith but also for a brother who is not in faith.                                                     What we shall do with this "Truth"?

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

July 1, 1943 Watchtower (p.205), ...It is for your good that these
requirements are made;....

Yes, i came to this and similar quotes, that are in WT publications, in my "period of Cognitive Dissonance". 

Such WT statements are really "strong, solid food"... not for babies. :))))))

 "For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil." - Heb 5:

"Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance. - Isaiah 55:2

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

the fact that the Society has for a hundred years  provided 15% strong spiritual truths  mixed with 85% irrational cluelessness and false prophesies of various sorts, and clueless observations that make no sense

"clear, pure water of truth" ?? ...and famous question that can be hear from platform and in witnessing "Would you drink water from a glass with just one drop of poison in it?"

Water That Leads to Life

..."Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you to taste the pure waters of truth." .....

[Picture on page 9]

"You can find the ‘waters of truth’ at your local Kingdom Hall"

 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009003