Srecko Sostar

11 hours ago, Anna said:

It is a very difficult thing. Do you think it's possible to have a good and close relationship with Jehovah, and yet be wary sometimes about what the Slave says? In the past these two things were inseparable. If you were not agreeing with the Slave, you were automatically against Jehovah.

In the past??? 

What is different today, on Saturday,  September 15 2018 ??

:))

2 hours ago, Alithís Gnosis said:

bigger fonts

as i can recall, JTR said ones that he write with bigger fonts because he can see that text better. Even i consider to put bigger fonts because of my dioptric glass i have (+3.5 for reading)  

i believe this is prime reason in his case :)))  

Not wish to offend Mr. G. Reformer. But one possible explanation why you G.R. has (and all other, as me too before few years) this feelings and attitude is, as i see, in problem (it is not problem in fact but tool by with what we as person can move in two possible direction)  called Cognitive Dissonance.

All people that is/was facing with at least two opposite information are entering in this inner condition of brain, of intellect, of soul, of spirituality and found himself in very big trouble.     

You can deny all information's, even facts and stick to your belief in order to "survive" and to stay where you are now (in JWorg) because it is "easier" for mind and heart. By staying in JWorg option you will not destroy your "imagination". Imagination created by WT and by you. On this mutual project you put much efforts, energy, love, faith, money, health, time etc. To leave it, it means a defeat. Defeat for you. Not for WT. They will survive as Company, because they ARE Company.

But you, you can lose everything you built, for many years perhaps. That is very scary!

But dreaded idea to abandon, left  this "safe WT port" makes you, and many other JW,  ready to continue to believe in WT deception.

:((    

Maybe is  that what happened before, but also this what is happening now in the WT corporation, like this one;

Dallas police officer was charged on Sunday with manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a neighbor, who authorities said was shot by the officer when she walked into an apartment she thought was her own and mistook the man living there for an intruder.

The bizarre sequence of events unfolded after the police officer, Amber Guyger, 30, had just completed a shift late on Thursday and was still in uniform as she returned to an apartment she erroneously believed was hers, police said.

Some WT publications in articles that talk about the end of 6,000 years, and these are the well-known passages on the Internet, even today show that people of that time had great expectations about 1975. And today's reader, by reading same quotes, who did not live in that time and euphoria about a possible future, may come to the conclusion that JW expected change on global scale (nothing new in fact,  IBS and then JW expected that change more then one time, and still now talking "the end is very near")
Is there a sentence in an article that speaks directly or indirectly about some details about 1975 may not be a crucial thing that have to give us an answer today to the question of truth and honesty of WT, and then of the JW member too.
JW brothers and sisters in the time before 1975 had the expectation that change might occur. Did those who had hoped for the new world were a lot or a few, what motives they had and why, that is irrelevant !! WT has given material, spiritual food that has led to the warming up of interest for the possibility in coming of Armageddon and for the Kingdom that will rule over the Earth.

This very fact how 1975 is mentioned not only by ex-JW, but also by JW members and was/is of public speaks and in WT magazines show how something was controversial and  disputable in connection/with 1975.

I was baptized in 1977, started study "blue bomb" in 1975. And have memorized that 1975 was year that some JW with whom i had contacts (elders too)  expected how something will happen. 

Today, I drove a car to the service and returned by bus to the city. One sister, her husband is elder, recognized me after many years and she knew I was no longer JW, started talking to me. She said how she is very happy for getting  new job (in school) after been unemployment for some time, and now can easier to repay the mortgage. In the end she told me that she is hoping  I will return to the assembly because "now is very close to the end".   What is interesting, she and her husband was single workers at Zagreb Betel. They get married and continue work in Betel. After some years must left because personal problems, She became suicidal. Her husband was one to whom i send many quotes from articles, before few years, in English language, about some issues and 1975 also. He never responded to my e-mails. 

Well, JW people living from generation to generation with similar "now is very close to the end". 

22 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Come to think of it, you and he are both from the same relatively obscure part of the world, where Witnesses are not exactly a dime a dozen. Moreover, it is also an economically unwell part of the world, which is not prime breeding grounds for 'apostates.' And you are hawking his gripes.

You don't suppose.....

uhh, you gave too much specific statements that must be verified in some scientific, historical, religious and genealogical way. :)))))))

Can you? 

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I know this guy well. He blocked me from his sight and then carried on as though I had been ordered off by the Org.

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2018/09/banned-at-the-apostate-website.html

I do not want to be involved in problem between you two. I am interested in comment, if you want to give, about my post. ;)) 

19 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

This must be the 2nd most commonly used JW phrase in all of history.

what is first?

9 hours ago, Anna said:

Adam and Eve and some a few generations after them lived for hundreds of years

This morning came to me on more thought :))))) We talking to others how Adam lived longest of all human. Did he? Bible text counting only male names of particular area and their life span. How long Eva lived?? 

We see today how statistic said that women living longer then men. Why not to look in far past with same possibility or even fact? That Eve lived longer then Adam. 

Until beginning of 19 century, researchers said, human lived in average 30-40 years. But now living longer, double or more in some parts of the world. 

Well, it seems we have to reconsider some or few or many things about some Bible quotes and about our interpretations of Bible quotes. 

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

"Throw him in irons below!"

"I'll handle that gladly sir, hehehehe ))))))" seaman Srecko responded.

When i was kid i imagined to be policeman on motorcycle.

After, there was a period when i  like  Bruce Lee movies.  Martial arts are still in my head. 

That is very close to this short story :)))

And who knows what other hiding person sleeps in me. Or in you?! ahahhaa

1 hour ago, Anna said:

If that was the case, how come Adam and Eve and some a few generations after them lived for hundreds of years? And now, despite incredible advances in medicine, people still find it difficult to cross the 100 year threshold. Although the imperfection the quote was talking about was mainly of a characteristic nature, surely everything works together, our physical deterioration includes our mental deterioration.

Yes, life span of those generation/s  are very long and then we have rapidly almost sudden cut to, what Moses has wrote, 70-80 years. Some said how people today living longer in many parts of world then before (before few decades or before few centuries), because of scientific and medicine progress. That is strange, indeed.   

Of course, human nature is complex. Physical and mental and other things are in deep connection. Deterioration in physical way not automatically leads to mental deterioration. Many people who have physical deficiency/defect are very intelligent, mentally, psychical  health persons and have spiritual, emotional  needs as others. 

Does people today have less need for love, compassion, understanding, beauty, ...etc.  then perfect Adam and Eve had, or first, second and third generation of First Couple who lived longer and perhaps in better body shape in comparing with nowadays people and was "closer" to perfection??? I don't think so. Our needs today are the same or even stronger in some moments. In that sense we are not showing any deterioration.      :))Thanks Anna! :))

16 hours ago, Anna said:

As I understand it, the emphasis might be on the imperfection rather than a number. That we are so far removed from perfection.

Yes, JW's most commonly mentioned such a reason (time distance) for evolution in human imperfection and increase in imperfection, with result in big wars, big evil and similar things as sign of last days.

I think that "increase in imperfection" not exist.  We can talking about "increase" of violence, of burglary in summer time, of hunger, of high pressure in people who living in towns ..... etc.

If Bible text said that in one particular day God throw out Adam and Eve from Eden with words of "curse" and how that make them "imperfect human" that can mean how in 1 second all have changed. To this moment you are perfect and from now on you are imperfect. Nothing about slow decrease in one characteristic and then slow increase in other characteristic. Killing is killing. No matter do you did this as perfect or imperfect human. Only increase, evolution, progress can be in methods and a means (knife or with Sonic weapon) of killing. With increase of population on Earth also goes increase of death.  Story abut Adam long life (and some other people in Genesis) that last for few centuries and how that means his/human slow decrease of perfection is something else. It is interesting that, as far as i know, Bible has no reports about how his long life looks in details and to tell us something about his decrease of mental, intellectual, spiritual and other features.

I think, if we talk about the amount, quantity of imperfection in a human, then it has nothing to do with some length in years (6000). The distance from Adam's point of perfection to today's man and our imperfection does not mean how with the years that pass from time point A to B (in our example 6,000 years) also increases human imperfections.

You are imperfect or not. You can not be more imperfect then you are. And also on other hand, if you or Adam  are perfect, you can not be more perfect then you are.

I am not talking about some skill that we improves with time. And in this case of issue about skill, we can ask; if you are perfect, does this means that all your skills are perfect? Does that means that your perfect skill will be more perfect after 10000 years? On other side if you are imperfect and if you have enough practice and talent your skill will be better, will be "perfect" in some point of time but only to some "highest" point that your imperfect perfection can reach. So, logic how with with the passing of time imperfect human/people become even more imperfect not sound reasonable to me.

People proved how they made some progress in all segments of life. Question that rises is, in what direction we going and using what we know and have. Perfect devil and perfect Adam and Eve proved that "perfection" are not guarantee for perfect life and all what that suppose to be. Knowledge that was "unknown" to first human, and ability to "differentiate" what is "good and bad" was became possible to them and people after them, only latter, after  they took the  fruit. So, we now  have that sort of knowledge too, what is good and what is bad. With or without Bible. Because Genesis said ,And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." 

Well, as far as i can see now, our increasing or decreasing in something have some connection with time but not in the religious sense that JWorg explains why mankind  imperfection are bigger today then before and why we are in situation that we have now.   

3) We do not lobby, vote in political elections, run for government office, or try to change governments. …Otherwise, how could we have a clean conscience when we preach the good news that only God’s Kingdom can solve mankind’s problems? source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016288#h=36

lobby verb [ I or T ]  UK  /ˈlɒb.i/ US  /ˈlɑː.bi/

C2 to try to persuade a politician, the government, or an official group that a particular thing should or should not happen, or that a law should be changed:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lobby

Recent example how WT Company and JW members participated in "lobbying" was writing letters to Russian Government and their politicians. 

On 7/17/2018 at 8:59 PM, Queen Esther said:

and that the seed that we sow, does not produce fruits, but more seeds.

This statement is SF i think. 

The plant life cycle starts with a seed; every seed holds a miniature plant called the embryo. Some seeds are capable of growing even after many years if they are kept cool and dry. When a seed falls on the ground, it needs warmth and water in order to germinate; some seeds also need light. After being planted in the soil for a few days, the seed absorbs water and swells until the seed coat splits. The tiny root pushes down and grows, looking for water and nutrients.  It is important that the seed is planted in the right place at the right time in order for it to germinate. Germination is the process by which an organism grows.  Some plants flower within days while it takes others months or even years. 

Final product of seed is fruit. Fruit in final stage have new seed or seeds. An new seeds producing new fruits. Natural circle created by God. Without seed there is no fruit. Without fruit there is no new seed.

Bible is full of examples about natural agricultural life in Israel land, soil. Statement that you  or WT made above is more about artificial Monsanto production of food :))))  

On 7/17/2018 at 8:59 PM, Queen Esther said:

This understanding is more adjusted to Jehovah's way of thinking,

JHVH way of thinking ??? :)))))

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He busted down the fence and bolted.

....with elders' and WT'  helping hand.

Controversial details about Serena and Jehovah's Witnesses. From John Cedars video who made more research.

 

 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

  On 6/23/2018 at 9:04 AM, Jesus.defender said:

Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again?

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What are you going to do, search the globe for them?

YES! If elders have interest to Imitate Jesus they will do exactly this, to search for the lost sheep - Mat.18:12-14:   “What do you think? If a man has 100 sheep and one of them strays,+ will he not leave the 99 on the mountains and set out on a search for the one that is straying?+ ¹³  And if he finds it, I certainly tell you, he rejoices more over it than over the 99 that have not strayed. ¹⁴  Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my* Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish.

I have to add to this one more information. Yes, sometimes non JW parents making very big pressure on their son/daughter because he/she has Bible study with JW or has plan to baptized as JW. In some very rare cases parents was made threat how they abandon them, leave them without inheritance or expel them from home. Or how they will buy him/her new car if they will give up on JW. 

But strong reaction (even such rare extremely measure) from non JW parents are understandable. Because JW parents would also do almost everything to "save" their children from this wicked world and make them to stay in congregation.

error

15 hours ago, Anna said:

Yes, I understand Jesus said that there will be times when we will have to choose between him and family. And that if we lose family members for his sake, then we will get many more back. But I have often wondered if that  means that relatives will be against us, and will threaten US with shunning unless we forsake Jesus. And then it is up to us who we will put first, Jesus or a family member.

Agree with logic you present here. If non JW shun you because you are JW. But please you must have in mind that most of non JW people or perhaps i can say all non JW people will not shun you because you ARE JW.  To illustrate. My mother is very zealous in preaching to non JW relatives, her sisters and brothers and their family. But she doing that with so much effort that what is too much IS TOO MUCH. But despite this her (my mother's) family receive mom every time and give her hospitality, to stay in their home, to sleep, to eat and to going visit bros and sis in that area and also she going to preach other people in town and around. So, that "unbeliever" home are some kind of free  hotel for my mother preaching service for decades now (my parents accept JW in 1968 so imagine how many years are till  today that mom preach them with no result). 

Shunning is not what non JW people doing to JW because of religion issue. Maybe sometimes non JW relatives try to somehow avoid annoying, boring JW family member who want to save him/them with Bible. This shunning stuff is something that JW people doing to non JW society in general and specially, with strong emotions to dfd/dis JW. 

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

average people living in Las Vegas, Nevada, the self proclaimed "Sin Capitol of the World" ... have the moral high ground.

money makes miracles :)))

now for serious - yes, human brain and emotions inside are marvelous. 

As you said, "semantic trap" is a great tool for such things :))

41 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Anyone with a true sense of justice knows the punishment does not fit the crime, but in some societies, there is no such thing as common sense or mercy, or even "extenuating circumstances"

Idiots and idiotic rules exist in every society. Here in Zagreb, one baker freely shared to poor people the excess of bread and rolls that he did not sell on that day in front of his workshop. Inspectors punished him for $ 5,000 for that. Namely, the law says that unsold bakery products must be thrown into the garbage????!!! Common sense tell me where are you living?!

https://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/pekar-qenaj-koji-dijeli-besplatno-kruh-nakon-kazne-ponos-hrvatske-46041

"Wrongly Disfellowshipped People"

I was looked  at this title of post again  and again. I feel how something is not right with this choice of words. And finally get to answer why  and what bothered me. 

Word "Wrongly" is  completely wrong. The elders pray before the meeting. They were "spiritually guided", or "inspired" if you like. This means there is no mistake, there is no wrong conclusion and decision.

To admit that some of the decisions were wrong would ruin their authority. And if you can not believe the elders ... whom you can trust then?

;))))

On 8/30/2018 at 8:09 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am going to make some popcorn ..... the replies should be interesting !

Looks like you're gonna work a lot of popcorn....because the replies will not come for a long time ...
if it ever will!? :))