Srecko Sostar

How can not you to understand that Abraham is just human like others. He did some good and some not good in life. He did something about he can be proud and something that can be discussed an questioned from today standpoint. You want to put him in sky and stars and in same time telling me (expect from me) that i need to adore or even bow down or worship him because of what he is/are or represent. Please be reasonable. You ask me ones what would i do if i would be in "his sandals", when he an Sara was "acting to be brother and sister"? Let me ask you, just for sake of discussion, you have no obligation to answer, "What would you do that your wife offer you young girl, her slave, made, friend, what ever she is, because two of you can not have children (or for some other reason)?" Would you make love with her for such purpose?" Abraham did so. And it looks he was liked Hagar much and she liked him, and loved her, fall in love with her. Who wouldn't fall in love with young beautiful female. Did he broke some principles? If looked from Old patriarchal way of living - No! it was common not only to God chosen people, but also for Not God chosen people (non God worshipers) for Society of those period of time, before and after. What example and role model giving his experience with Hagar for people living today. He and Hagar not experienced Gods anger. Only family problems with jealous Sara :)))

Please Space, if Deborah gave word to Barak, did she only been messenger? I would say that she became, maybe by not her own will, person who take responsibility of leadership as Commander of army too. So by that she was important person in chain of command. And she went on battle field! You said in your explanation that (and confirmed my statement) by saying;"... under the command of Barak and Prophetess Deborah.." You confuse me dear friend :)))) Another woman came on scene. Jael. We see that Deborah and Jael was much more heroic than Barak. SO WHO IS BETTER HEAD IN THIS CASE, FEMALE OR MALE? :))) With Church or without Church, we discuss about does woman have ability, permission, possibility, obligation, prohibition, advice, and similar - to do same things as male doing. After all, both, male and female doing very beautiful and very ugly things. And they are doing that with and/or without God and/or Church! I found something interesting on web. Here it is: God’s reason for choosing Barak for the Israelite commander is not clear. Deborah lived in southern Ephriam. Surely, there was an Israelite man who could lead the Israelites who lived closer than Kedesh, Barak’s home in northern Naphtali. On the other hand, Kedesh was only about 5 miles from Hazor. Barak personal experience with Jabin’s domination motivated him to throw off the Canaanite oppression. Barak’s caution when Deborah’s called him to be war commander of Israel seems appropriate for three reasons. First, the proximity of Kedesh and Hazor allowed Barak to know the magnitude of Jabin’s army along with its chariots. To Barak, the Canaanite army was beyond formidable. Second, the Bible gave no indication that Barak had battle experience. Likely his father Abinoam was a clan leader in Naphtali (Judges 5:12-13). Probably Barak had experience with decision making for a small group of men, but definitely not for an army of 10,000 men. Third, Deborah held court near Bethel, approximately 80 miles from Barak’s home town. Barak may not have known Deborah well; thus he was not sure that she spoke for God rather than herself. Barak must have been reassured when Deborah agreed to go with the Israelite army. Deborah was putting her life on the line along with Barak and the Israelite men. Barak’s response showed that he focused on Sisera’s seasoned, well-equipped army rather than God’s power and plan, e.g., God plan to lure the Canaanites into the Kishon river valley. Because of Barak’s failure to fully trust God, this Israelite victory over the mighty Canaanite army is remembered more for Jael’s subterfuge than Barak’s leadership.

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." So, Eve was deceived and became sinner. But she was not aware what happened in fact because she was deceived. So, Adam was not deceived and not became sinner. But Adam made wrong purposely in fully conscious of the act.

women rule over them So, here in book of Isaiah, God has objection about woman who rule over man, but He was very satisfied with Deborah who served as military and legal leader for nation in book of Judges? Do you want suggesting something about JHVH and why he chose Deborah for leading position over all nation, over all males, elders, patriarchs? Do you have problem with that? Why would God brake his own principle about position of woman (according to some view on this matter) in Israel nation by appointing Deborah to fill an office of leader? Looks like there was no male at the moment to fill that need? I hope she wore a cover on her head while in service. Or this also would be problem for some people? She served as Military Leader. She served as Judge. God has not changed, as he himself claim. So, do you suggest how He made a mistake with Deborah? And decide that never again woman will be in position as judge alone, as judge with male partner or as judge above other male members? Or do you think that Samson, because he was male, was better Judge then Deborah?

What you like to prove with these verse? Do you want to prove how Hierarchy in male-female religious and other principles (God told this to Adam and Eve AFTER they were been exiled from Eden) is HIS original purpose for male and female creatures? God just stated what will generally be status and how relationships will generally look between male and female in future society that is without God, but under control of devil. Dear Mr. Space, this kind of verse is kind of "Prophecy", kind of looking in future based on circumstances and insight in human, as perfect and imperfect human. We can tell here how God have seen the future of human society and tell just one statement about that. By no means He, as God, not giving here any Command about how must look hierarchy in family, in congregation, in society. He just see what will happen from now on, as result of expelling from Paradise (or Sin, as you wish). So as result of sin and imperfection male come to be ruler over female, generally. You said how "some will point as well as Paul's use". Some Bible scholars, i assume, or your friends? Who are that some? Doctors? Professors of archaeology? Who ever they are, they have their opinions with more or less accuracy. So what? Would it be first time that educated and non educated people are wrong in conclusion? You and that some point how Paul must have in mind Genesis 3:16, but Paul not give his reference to Genesis 3:16 BUT to the LAW. Very clearly written. Why you want to make me to read something that is not written in this same verse? Do i have some dyslexia or vision problems and can not see the word Law in Genesis 3:16? In this God's words you reading how His intention is/was to regulate male-female relations and put male over female. But that is only your interpretation of Genesis 3:16 and nothing more. In period when all was Perfect, there is no single verse about God's plan that Adam have to control Eve. Read your Genesis chapters 1-3. Nothing about so called "theocratic order" and female place on position you suggest that exist from the Day of Creation. Counting how Adam was first and Eve was second telling nothing how God was made Adam Head of Eve. What verse in Genesis said such? When talking to God, Adam did not say to God how Eve not respected him as husband and disobey what he told to her. No, he said: "The woman you put here with me"—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.” This have no sound how Eve is second-class in hierarchy. She was there with him. Because God put her there and Adam was aware of that fact. Adam was also aware of command about ruling, but ruling over the animals and earth only. Not over the Eve! Here is also one of the reasons why he not acting in different manner, as Head who would reject or accept the idea (so how today the JW congregation would expect him to do so) when Eve offer him the fruit. He was not in such position, or he not thinking of himself as in such position because, we see how his answer to God say something else -"The woman you put here with me" Again, i call you politely to show Verse from the Law about this, because Paul said in his expose how "For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says." Ones again, Genesis 3:16 is not part of the Law. :)))) , on the contrary "some will point" that this is Prophecy.

Here is example how WT neutrality looked before. Before "new light". Before "new understanding", Before "new interpretation". Before "things get from bad to worse". "....I will support and defend Constitution of US against all enemies, foreign and domestic...So help me God."

On other hand this two also showed some kind of "neutrality", according to own "conscience". And with WT Company approval, i guess. “The Joliet, Illinois, “Herald-News” quotes a local spokesman for one group affected by the law as saying: “JehovahÂ’s Witnesses, not only in this country but throughout the world, always take a neutral stand towards the government. ItÂ’s not that we donÂ’t have respect for this country. ItÂ’s just that you wonÂ’t find JehovahÂ’s Witnesses saying a pledge of allegiance to any country.””Watchtower 1980 Feb 15 p.30

??? interesting name (Old Card) for bible verse and Bible book inspired by Spirit. Isn't whole Bible one context, not only one chapter or one book, or one Letter. Someone pushing this verse, someone pushing other verse. How can that be wrong? :))) That is your understanding. They have (congregation) some kind of "inspired chaos". Paul in the beginning of chapter preferred more if some have gift of prophesies then gift of speaking language. But both gift are gifts of spirit and no one of those who was "inspired" (male or female) can not chooses what they personally like more and tell their wishes to Spirit and after heard the personal wish of person, Spirit change his mind and decide to give some other gift to that person. It is possible, but this comment is only for discussion about possibility here. Chapter said that all such "Inspired chaos" was happened when they assembled in church. So, it seems how Spirit himself was source of that "chaos". Imagine 50 person in your congregation. And suddenly all came under inspiration of Spirit, and all are so exciting to tell others what Spirit speaking to them. Is that wrong? How to stop Spirit of his power, and say, "hey dear Spirit, Paul said you have to wait with your manifestation because 10 brothers and sister already waiting in line to get to the stage." :)) About your interpretation how "to be silence" is applied to the male also, not only for female. But CONTEXT is here: 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. Only reason for KEEP SILENT is lack of INTERPRETER! (and this advice is only about if person have gift of speaking tongues) And according to Paul, even 2-3 person can speak in the same time. Is that also something that is happening in congregation today? Are JW restoration have in program of meetings that 2-3 person speaking aloud in the same time. They should have if want be as it was first church in Corinth :))) no matter if they today not speaks in tongues, but if they want they can on International Conventions. :)) On the contrary advice for the woman is this: 34) the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. (35) If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. But what if Paul here using some other people idea of "silence"? What if this 2 verses is not HIS ADVICE how woman should behave in the church? But what if Paul only quoted (using same words, idea) that was came from some other people in this congregation? Verse 36 say: 36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached? Perhaps this people, leaders, elders? or whatever they have been, are addressed with this verse 36. What if Paul said; "You brothers as elders, in position of leaders of this congregation put command that woman can not participate in congregational activity, that they can not speak, ask questions, give own interpretation and understanding, asking why this why that .... And because of your view of woman in generally as second-class members, you put a regulation how all woman must be in silent while on meeting. Because of that I, Paul, am asking you - Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached?" NEXT: 34) the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. Please tell us WHAT LAW says also that Woman must be in silence in Congregational meetings? About what Law Paul has talking? Law of Moses or some other Law? What verse in Law of Moses? What verse in some other Law? Rabbinic Law, Roman Law, Greek Law? Divisions in the Church 10 I appeal to you, brothers,1 by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no pdivisions among you, but that you be united qin the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is rquarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that seach one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow tApollos,” or “I follow uCephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Chloe is woman, sister of the Corinth congregation, obviously in position of leading the church. And she has important contacts with Paul and with handling things in cong. Just opinion, as always :)) Nothing that must be established by the Law of the Media and Persia.

Offering Alms to Monks The first Buddhist monks did not build monasteries. Instead, they were homeless mendicants who begged for all their food. Their only possessions were their robe and begging bowl. Today, in many predominately Theravada countries like Thailand, monks still rely on receiving alms for most of their food. The monks leave the monasteries early in the morning. They walk single file, oldest first, carrying their alms bowls in front of them. Laypeople wait for them, sometimes kneeling, and place food, flowers or incense sticks in the bowls. Women must be careful not to touch the monks. The monks do not speak, even to say thank you. The giving of alms is not thought of as charity. The giving and receiving of alms create a spiritual connection between the monastic and lay communities. Laypeople have a responsibility to support the monks physically, and the monks have a responsibility to support the community spiritually. .... It is a common practice in Zen to make food offerings to the hungry ghosts. During formal meals during sesshin, an offering bowl will be passed or brought to each person about to partake of the meal. Everyone takes a small piece of food from his bowl, touches it to the forehead, and places it in the offering bowl. The bowl is then ceremonially placed on the altar. Hungry ghosts represent all of our greed and thirst and clinging, which bind us to our sorrows and disappointments. By giving away something that we crave, we unbind ourselves from our own clinging and neediness to think of others. source: https://www.thoughtco.com/offering-food-buddhist-rituals-and-traditions-449750

now i am in dilemma. To be fan of you or of Abraham? :)))) pick for yourself what you like more i think how you are not entitled do hear more privileged information then I already said in public, details about. So i will not tell a "lie", "half truth", "white lie" or "misleading information", but "be in silence" and suffer consequences (verbal persecution) of such decision :))))) stay well!

Very long ago, there was one JW sister. She died. She had a husband and a son. Her husband also died. Her son is alive, he is now cca 70 years old and he is a longtime elder. That sister, his mother, Zorica, was anointed. What I remember, about her very well today, is that how she always spoke with a voice that was the voice of authority. It was the teacher's voice, who giving lessons. After she made a comment in the kingdom hall, no one, but no one nor the elders added their comment or correction to her comment. Perhaps she was a person of such a character, and did not adopt the "spirit of gentleness and silence" while sitting in the KH :)))) expected for JW sisters, mothers, and women. But she spoke with the authority of the one who is equal or even above the elders position. I was always wondered how her son, elder, felt because they lived in a house that was her and her husband and been in the same congregation.

yes, if he change his sex/gender :))))) maybe i am not good in try to switch myself to US humor, but you know...that is me :))

Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV) 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. This same Paul here said very advanced and almost innovative thought. He abolishes all the social divisions that are characteristic of the society in which they lives. I primarily think of Jewish society and religion as an indivisible part of the Jew people. Eliminates the difference on the basis of nationality. Eliminates the difference of status on a social scale caused by position or origin in society. Eliminates differences caused by belonging to sex, gender. (It not surprised if some talking how First Christians was the Religious Communist with the ideas of a classless, egalitarian society that shared their land and their other property and similar.) Why these 3 stumbling stone are connected and put "in one bag" with clear answer on problems that this 3 listed items causing till today? When he talking about "you are all one in Christ", he undoubtedly talking about New Religious System of that NEW SOCIETY that try to forming New Congregation. Not New "Jew Congregation". Of course they are not been able to escape all obstacles and traps which drag them into the old system of worship of God and the religious hierarchy that existed in Jewish religion for so many centuries. They were not so strong to cut all ties with old things. Because "new light" that shined on them, for short time, was to much new for them to be that something what would be possible to incorporate into something new formed. And that they themselves did not know how this newly-found faith should actually look like in structure, in the relationship between the members, between the sexes. Perhaps Paul was highly "Inspired" while he dare to talking about such taboo theme - male and female are equal to the such point, to such level, that sex/gender even not existing in Congregation of God, not existing as question, as principle, as stumbling stone, as difference, as controversy. So they mixed old thoughts with new thoughts. Paul is one example. We find his commands to congregation about "silenced woman" and on other hand with full confidence he talking how "we are all one an equal". :)) Here is context of verse i mentioned in the beginning, to see "whole picture" how he ( and I/me, hehehe) came to unity of sexes :)) because we are all: Children of God 23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

1:26] Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." [1:27] So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. [1:28] God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." NO INDICATION how God was said anything about a hierarchy that favors a male over a female. [2:18] Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner." [2:19] So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. [2:20] The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner. WHY this chapter told that God made some soft of omission, when 1 chapter say that God create both of them without time gap. How could be that Creator made all in pairs, but missed to see how male man would be lost, lonely, unsuccessful without female man "Helper". If male need helper in person of female, then he (Adam and all Adam till today) needs HELP in ALL what he/they need, have to do. According to verse, he need to have HELPER AS PARTNER. NOT helper as female servant, female slave, female mute. A man is incomplete without a woman! Verse said so! So how we come to the point that woman must be in "silent" in all things, not only in so called "spiritual" things connected with faith, beliefs, worshiping. In WT religion husband or male must to have last/final word on anything, according to GB bible scholars teachings. With or without "helper" help/helping :))))

IS IT PROPER FOR A WOMAN TO SPEAK, TEACH AND PROPHESY? By Witness, Yesterday at 01:12 AM in Jehovah's Witnesses wt doctrine on women vs. scripture YES IT IS! Spirit who giving inspiration not choosing person, who will be employed for acting for some purpose, based on sex/gender. Answer on that is giving by life itself, not by the book, even if that book called Bible.

Male species in human society ruling the world, generally. And this world with so many male leader's became very ugly. I don't how would look the world if female would take charge. Maybe not so much better too. But, why not to try :))))

I do not know US laws regarding archives and records. However, I guess there is no difference in the fact that the State Archives, the National Archives of any country, do not collect all the records that arise in the work of an institution (no mater of what sort of private or legal body is case). There are different activities within an organization or institution, depending on the type of company, association, society, or how it is registered within the trade and other laws of the country in which it operates. Depending on the type of society (corporation) in question, there are laws, regulations on how to handle business documentation. There are deadlines for custody, there is a freedom to decide (according to some rules) which documentation will be kept and how long, and which will be destroyed. Sometimes private documentation (I'm not just talking about texts, but everything else what can be of the interests for society, objects, pictures, and so on) can be given on guard or to sell to the National Archives. Documentation on material and financial work is to a great extent in the interest of the state and there are legal provisions there. Also for information about employees. For a lot of the other papers, and WT is a private company, I think the free will of the owner is to decide what to do with documents, writings and notes and the like. In case of WT, think, they can do what they want. But to how long, no one knows. Obviously they makes a plan how to secure them self from own wrongdoings, and not only to be accurate with the law.

Paul's words here, as also those how/about, woman must be in "silence" (various forms of spiritual, intellectual, religious "silence") you mentioned, seems to me as his personal establishing, ratification of Patriarchal, Jews, Old Congregational, Man's view about how society (male society) have to, should to behave, act toward woman of all age. He wrongly interpret bible verse 7 in Genesis, by my perception. If verse said that God created male and female on HIS IMAGE, then both are GLORY of God, not only man. Or, how woman is glory of man. What woman? Married woman? What with unmarried woman? Then they are not glory of no one? Maybe to mother and father? Or only/just glory of father, because mother has no such importance? In verse 8 Paul twisting report about Adam rib and Eve's creation from rib. What if such description is not literal way how God created Eve? But if it is literal, then Paul's conclusion must not be going in correct way. Is that (interpretation) his wish how things between man and woman have to be? And also by such verse he supports general view on woman by Jew society, and not only Jew's but of all other in those time. And as i recall Paul never get married. Why? Only because preaching? Verse 9 also, once again try to established same conclusion. If God created all living creatures, did he first create all male animals and all male plants, and then, latter, afterward female part of same species? Should we, can we support such argumentation also with verse 9? I do not think so. Looks funny. I don't think how any reasonable person will put things in such logic and order. But Paul and any modern Paul today perhaps would be able to come into such idea, for goal to establish an support male domination over female. JHVH is Father and Mother in one person, because of act of creation.

Although the Bible in its text contains a lot of male nouns for God, it also contains nouns that describe God in the form of a woman (female). Bible scholars in the WT organization teach that God does not have sex (which would mean that God is neither male nor female). On the other hand, the first book of the Bible says that God created the first man and woman in his own image, in his own likeness. From this it is easy to conclude that God, the Creator has the characteristics of both sexes (so-called male and female traits, features) because all those characteristics came from God who has all traits that exist in form of male and female creatures. There is a very large resistance, in society, when a person wants to change their sex (gender) or love more then one woman. God created, says the Bible, all in this world. He created creatures that are monogamist and bigamist. He created those who sometimes show homosexual tendencies. But he also created those creatures that change their sex throughout their lives. So, for Him nothing can make surprise. If God created a male and female as He Himself, any division in a formats that are characteristic of/for some religious organizations is completely wrong.

Hi. I decide few  moments before not to discuss more. Thanks for intervention

Ok, you have your way, i have my way.We agree that we disagree. All best!

this is so strange! and you have authority to call me names and say how i am "daft" :)))))))))))))

Where is Bible verse that say how Abraham choose to lie because of given promise. Bible verses we used until now show how he lie because of fear for his life. He is not mentioned any promise in context with Pharaoh or Abimelek.

perhaps i am "daft" according to your judgement.....but your upper statement reveal something strange :)))))