Srecko Sostar

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

You speak of Abraham being a lair, but make no mention of the conclusion to the narrative.

I think that this man is/was inherited all from Adam and Eve as all other human. So, if you want make me to believe how Abraham never told a lie (half true or some other white lies) that is or it isn't written in the Bible reports, then please do not expect such from me. If you want me to show compassion, understanding for his situation and weakness of flesh that made him act that way, that is something else. 

One politician here in Croatia once said, "I never lie, but sometimes I say untruth, and that is much more polite."

3 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Jesus, the Messiah promised would not have been born and perhaps you and I wouldn't be here right now because of that.

I believe how God can manage things if situation would been changed in case of Abraham ..... to Messiah.  

13 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

You stated Abraham lied, but fail to see why he did it,

Do you agree in this quote (sentence constructed as it is) how Abraham was in fact tell a lie? If you agree, then does it mean how I have to accept the reasons for that and your explanation about his act?

Do you justified Abraham dealing with situation because of possible reasons that he - Abraham consider as good reasons to do so? Or because you today consider his reasons as good reasons for deal with such situation in such way?

24 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

I concur, this has nothing to to be equal and or amounting as to what you have said, therefore, somewhat irrelevant

 :))) No problem. I forget how my life is mine not Abraham's  life or someone else's life  :)))) sorry to  your lost  reading time :))))

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

this was the case when ISIS was a far bigger threat in the Middle East killing the young and older men, the women and girls were taken as wives and or sex slaves,

....why this make memory on some Bible reports and Mosaic Law that giving permission to Israel soldiers doing the very same thing. To capture virgins after they killed all males. ... maybe because Middle East is connection and blood relationship, kinship of tribes from ancient times.      

15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So then, Srecko, what would you have done in Abraham's sandals? Perhaps what would you have done if you were in his Son, Iassac's sandals?

Hi again!

Such questions was addressed to me in 1980 when i was put before several military officers in ex Yugoslavia period, for reason of my rejection to accept military service, clothing, equipment and weapons. That ended in 3 years prison/jail. 

So, i really have no wish, no will to answer on same today. 

Or if you like to hear some Bible verses i can find them for you. Only if you would insist. But because i consider you as man who have wide insight on Bible text, i have no doubt how you can guess what verses will fit as answer on that question. :))    

 

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Also I would like to add, rape is not a joke,do not make it out to be as such. Regardless of who done it and who is victim, so I rather not take part in your form of humor.

What i said is not for purpose of humor, but to show how some WT elders, obviously "under WT spirit guidance" manage such situations.

Very serious, but in sphere of bad humor or irony and bizarreness that is product when 3 male interrogate woman in private/judicial chambers.  

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Genesis 26:7 - But when the men of that place asked about his wife, he said, "She is my sister." For he was afraid to say, "She is my wife," since he thought to himself, "The men of this place will kill me on account of Rebekah, because she is so beautiful."

..because she is so beautiful."

yeah... people kill each other because of money, power and beauty

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

It's a figure of speech and or expression,

here also :))

42 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

As for the example in question highlighted, a man sees your wife has the most beautiful thing ever but does not know you are married to her, what you have done if you were A'bram or Issac

what if this most beautiful wife say... "why not, this is most beautiful man i ever seen!"

42 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

let alone another situation whereas a man took your wife in the night, not knowing she is your wife.

perhaps she would scream and by that not be guilty for sex. When some elder in judicial committee ask her did she enjoyed, she can tell, i was so busy with screaming and not have time to enjoy! 

Oh man, buddy.... Abraham sandals are his not mine. :)) "And when Abram heard that his relative had been captured, he assembled the 318 trained men born in his household..."

38 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

our church father are rolling in their graves

so after all.... there is a life after death :)))))

Would it be acceptable to WT teaching that JW women (sister-single or marriage) be involved in  congregational legal cases (investigations, interrogations, judging) in elder staff meetings when it comes to children (especially female children) and other JW women?

Would it be acceptable to the WT's teachings that a JW woman (sister-single or married) be a captain of a ship or a plane, a director of a company, etc, and that her male JW brothers (including elders) in faith be subordinated, subdued to her?

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

FACT: No one is trying to get jumped and killed for their wife, mainly with how things were back in those days.

agree :))))

But Revelation 2:10(NW) says: “Do not be afraid of the things you are destined to suffer. Look! the Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison that you may be fully put to the test, and that you may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourselves faithful even with the danger of death, and I will give you the crown of life.” 

But we are just humans. No matter if someone is Job, Abraham, David, Saul, Peter, JW, Buddhist or Atheist.

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I learn this the hard way several years ago.

sorry to hear, hope you are ok now.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

that Sarah was his sister and not his wife

then maybe for modern people and readers of Bible today would be more acceptable that Abraham clearly said those facts, how Sara is his sister and wife...2  in 1 model  :))

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Gen 18:16-33

perhaps after he experienced Sodom and Gomorrah he changed his feelings and thoughts. But yes, in their case he acting nice.

And as you said, many details are unknown.

Thanks :)   

On 7/31/2018 at 1:35 PM, UcyImd1 said:

Everyone is inspired.

Yes, in smaller or bigger scale. But we need to accept that when talking about inspiration as general phenomenon and feature
in all humans we must not be focused only in religion aspects of this "divine" gift. Musician, poets, painters, writers, people who made things - all of them are inspired from time to time. 

But if one person or group claim that he/they are inspired ... or on contrary... if one person or group denied that gift in him/them and claim that they are not inspired while talking or doing something .... both of this group must be taken very carefully and warily. You never know what is with them :))))

On 7/31/2018 at 8:42 AM, UcyImd1 said:

Remember when chlorine was considered the ingredient to kill any germ in swimming pools? 

I do not know how it is in country you living, but chlorine is still implemented in water purification and much more.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

This always bothered me too, until I kept reading...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+20%3A9-18&version=NKJV

Abraham did this same lie 2 time - Gen 12

Well, i can see (in chapter 20:11) how Abraham has prejudice that people of different tribe, people, religion are all bad, immoral, without ethics, not honest... how similar with some JW members standpoint on so called "worldly" people, that they are not worth of their society because of similar reasons. 

Second, he has not told people "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth", but his version of tribal and family connections and customs (and such explanation came at the culmination of problem, not at first contact, in the beginning). And this is not even in sphere of WT thesis about "theocratic warfare". Reason is, as he told, fear for his own life. He did not care about Sara's life and her moral integrity, honesty. Not about what will people talking about his God, religion, beliefs. Only about his life - according to text. 

4 hours ago, Gone Away said:

However, the inference that because the devil is bad, all badness comes from him is still not logical.

Problem is in Bible then. :))......or in WT interpretation about this issue in GB teachings as it is showed down by source in JWorg library: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007401#h=1

....or if JW members not reading publications and don't know what words are in there, hehehe

"Jesus rightly condemned those reprehensible men. (Matthew 23:33-35) However, he recognized that there was someone else who must share the blame for the evil in their hearts. He said to them: “You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.” (John 8:44) Though Jesus acknowledged that humans are capable of wicked acts, he pointed to the very source of evil—Satan the Devil."

:))) in fact according to this article, this is not GB explanation but something what is Jesus himself acknowledged and pointed as reality.... :))))

Now we have several choices:

a) to read Bible alone and make conclusions

b) to read WT publication and make conclusions

c) not reading nothing and be happy  

2 hours ago, Gone Away said:

This cannot be a true statement. It is like saying my dentist is a dangerous driver, so all driving accidents in the world are caused by my dentist.

hehe, but your dentist is not Ruler, god of this World and all what such position and title means and contains in Bible theology.

2 hours ago, Gone Away said:

How do you define "bad"?

... as it is described in Bible (religious) context.

"worldly" explanation is here: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bad

8 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Do you think otherwise?

Don't really understand this comment.

 

Extreme conclusion can be this: God is good. So, all what is good in this World is from God. Devil is bad, so all what is bad in this world is from devil. But because God not stop devil to doing bad, so all good and bad is from God (old patriarch Job said to his wife same).. Because only God have power and knowledge to stop devil influence. And until today He has not done that. 

Picture of Abraham and Sara came to me. What spirit guided Abraham when he lied about Sara, how she is his sister and not wife? Is his lie in red field, or he has "theocratic warfare" and not told privileged information to person who is not entitled to hear/know it? :))   

12 minutes ago, Gone Away said:

"you"? Not sure who you mean.

Once again you are displaying a flaw in reasoning in attributing the minutiae of the actions of men to the holy spirit.  So by your understanding if it goes right it is holy spirit, if it goes wrong it's not?

I really don't know what you are trying to describe there, but it isn't an experience I am familar with.

When we discussing theological issue like this, we can stand on few points and try to make some open conclusions. But that not necessary meaning we have right and wrong answers.  

For example we can start in this way. If want to take in consideration bible verses like one that say how "every good gift is from above", or such as "good fruit is from Spirit", gives impression that only Good, Right things is from God, who is source of good in all sort of expressions.  And all bad and evil, by this sort of logic, must be from someone else. So, some people believe in this way of logic. I can see how WT publication making such kind of explanation. Simplified answer on question: "  Where does evil come from? in WT publication put answer in two part. One source of wrong is "wicked one" and other source is "Adam and Eve".                                                                             source:  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150701/evil/                                                                                                                           This simple WT answer in fact say that if you are not under influence of Spirit, if you are not guided by Him then your deeds is in red field.  On other side same article giving advice that people must resist and avoid bad. But in the same time God permitting evil to have power.

I am not standing and justified only one way of thinking. But rather making questions about some answers. Your's or mine or from WT. 

9 hours ago, UcyImd1 said:

He is laughing at YOUR expense.

...so you are so sure that he is not laughing at Your? :))

Do not forget, he is Master of Deceiving.  He corrupted whole world, according to Bible, so what is WT to be exception??!!

8 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Seems to be an inference that if the group is "spirit-directed" it can't get things wrong, therefore if it does get things wrong, it cannot be "spirit-directed".

Sorry, but all people, group/individual can be  "spirit-directed", i agree. With one little detail which i always have in mind even if i not speak it aloud -- what kind, sort of spirit took place? Spirit and spirit, one word - few meanings.

In case of WT it is very clearly that they, GB, thinking about JHVH spirit or Holy Spirit who, according to their words, is behind their WT Organization and giving direction. 

Well,  in case when Company is on so called "right way", according to logic you present, if i understand your thinking, Holy Spirit "direct" GB.

But in case when Company is on so called "wrong way" (correction will be done in some future time, and by that no one knows today that Organization is on "wrong way" :))))) , they, GB are not directed by JHVH spirit or Holy Spirit, but they are directed by some other sort, kind of spirit. Which one? Generally looking, it doesn't matter. What is matter it is that that Company walking in wrong  street, maybe even in wrong town. :=)   

This is how i can explain, as one possible among many explanation, what is going on here. :))))

4 minutes ago, UcyImd1 said:

So are you wanting to return?

River of no return. I think one old movie have same title. :))

5 minutes ago, UcyImd1 said:

Or are you now into criticizing?

We here just changing information. Here exists interesting people.

8 minutes ago, UcyImd1 said:

All due respect but your comments are as if your angry unbelieving now.

No. You see how many times  i put with my comments.  

Ok, now i have to go to work something with my hands. see you later, hehe  

1 minute ago, UcyImd1 said:

Are you a witness? 

left in 2015, after 40 years