Srecko Sostar

8 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Bit confused. Was this your experience? Or did you make it up?

i made, for the sake of arguments :)))

... but in the same time can be true for someone else who experienced same or similar.

9 hours ago, UcyImd1 said:

They pray for insight and they can be wrong.

Correct. And then we have;

a) pray has not ended in Heaven (because of clouds of all sorts)

b) pray was not make God to be pleased 

c) God decide not to answer

d) God let that "spirit of deceive" acting

e) God answer but human interpret His words wrongly

f) something else

 

2 hours ago, alvi languore insanabili said:

Interesting. Trying to revive a 2016 topic with something that makes no sense. WOW! ?

 

In elders (as extended hand from the GB) action of disfellowshiping members can we see or not .. are they "still spirit directed" ?

On 4/29/2017 at 1:27 PM, bruceq said:

This was not the first time The Watchtower had mentioned expulsion of unrepentant sinners from the congregation. From 1952 onward, however, the need to maintain the spiritual cleanliness of the Christian congregation was especially stressed.

No,  it was not first time WT talking about sinners. As we can see from 1947 article, before 1952 WT doctrine marked Roman Church as one that give wrong interpretations on some Bible verses about "expulsion". Later, WT accepted Catholic application of same verses.

With or without "pagan influence", WT as "spirit guided organization" changed previous interpretation on same Bible verses.  :))

..."we are uninspired and can err"...

..."our Company is spirit-directed" ...

Some of comments here giving possible meanings on terminology used in WT publications that reveals, optional/possible GB deep thoughts, on how they looking at this issue and how members feel about. In 140 years, must has been/it is now, some sort of different mental/spiritual views and wishes of heart, how imperfect, uninspired, sinful man is guided, directed from JHVH spirit in accomplishing christian task as member (ordinary "am harets" and FDS member) in "one and  only" true religion/organization.  

Catholic church (just for example) also are in position to give self made arguments why they have to be, must to be "only true" religion. And in comparing to WT they already existing more then 140 years. Does this proving how They, Roman Catholic church, are "spirit directed" and have blessing because we see multitude of members and soooo long existing? Much, much longer then WT. Which (by whom) handmade is RCC? Humans, gods, devils ....etc.? Which handmade is WT? 

Juggling with words  and with meaning of words  ( lexical , syntax , and semantic analysis )  to whom the source is WT (or JW members and their personal understanding and feeling on issue) i think will not give proper answer. :))

On 12/13/2016 at 10:13 PM, Gone Away said:

No one is disfellowshipped for their beliefs.....as far as I know

:))) then we can say perhaps this:

Elders: "Bro Fred. We see that you have your beliefs on Bible teachings that is contrary to WT beliefs. We love you very much, but we must to disfellowship you, not because You have your own beliefs in your brain, but because you have no WT beliefs in your brain. Sorry!" 

On 7/8/2018 at 12:45 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This afternoon (Saturday) was our weekend meeting, and the public speaker said that at the Orangeburg, SC Assembly last weekend it was said that the Brotherhood had dropped to 7,500,000 worldwide.

It was my impression that we were at somewhere around 8.2 million, and growing.

That means (if true) that even with several BILLION HOURS of public witnessing .... there was a net LOSS of 700,000 JWs.

So, have we actually had that much decrease, and does anybody have any "official" numbers to verify what I heard today from the platform?

... perhaps it is possible.

If we take in consideration growing number of disfellowshiped and dissociated people, generational departure of old members due to natural death, weak pronatality policy of the organization, children that hesitate to be baptized, and of course famous worldwide persecution of JW members that ended in death. 

7 hours ago, Gone Away said:

a word opposite in meaning to another (e.g. bad and good ).

but ex JW is opposite (they are in opposition)  toward (in relation to) JW.

:))))

i just making some fun. Not want to be serious and boring.....  :))

2 hours ago, Gone Away said:

We call them "synonyms".

yeah..... and Antonym of "JW" is "ex JW" :))))))) 

On 7/17/2018 at 5:55 AM, Space Merchant said:

Other than that, like I have said time and time again, the JWs is a Restorationist group with religious leaders who are not following Christendom of the mainstream, but rather, the early Church itself,...

Russel, as 2. President of WT, and in fact Founder of WT Company and Bible groups in purpose to reform their own old belief system, or as you using term Restoration, to restore faith in  Bible mirror, was man who belonged to several religion groups, Protestants as i think, and because he was not satisfied with no one of them, made something, that became one more religion in protestant atmosphere. Or restoration atmosphere as you explain.

Sometimes those, who are bible scholars  in WT, using verses like this: 

Proverbs 4:18 NWT  But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.

to explain why errors in WT theology occurs from time to time and by that have justification for evolution in restoration process that happened continually. In such process, that last more then 140 years now, doctrines, instructions, teachings, ideas sometimes took opposite forms and shapes then before. And all of them were been, as they claimed, firmly established by Bible and with guidance of Spirit. This transformation or restoration were done in first place in early days of Russel and as such took place in new born religion aka Bible Students.  

But transformation and restoration continue, especially after Russell dead, when new Reformer, new Restorer became President and established new religion, new by name aka JW, but also in theology and management of Company.   

I think how all of them in those time as many of them today forget to consider (ok many would mention Daniel book or some other old Prophets, but if we want to look in so wide context will be lost, and my memory are not so good, ahahahah)  this verse:

1 Corinthians 13:12 NLT  12Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

Because many bible scholars want to believe that this future time of clarity, completeness and perfection about Gods word, Bible and understanding, are NOW, they all are very sure about their theology.

I think how all of them failed. More then 2000 years of failure. And even Restoration need own brand new restoration. No Bible verses about. Find them by yourself :)) greetings. 

On 7/19/2018 at 9:27 PM, Space Merchant said:

said database is solely in Australia and not globally as you allude to.

WT is one global Company (parent company if i use correct words)  with many sister companies under different names. And all other companies in different countries have their names and numbers depend on particular law of the country. Australia was given as one example. You allude to that how  i allude. Wrong friend :)) 

On 7/8/2018 at 1:29 AM, Alithís Gnosis said:

*** w18 August pp. 4-5 par. 8 Do You Have the Facts? ***

 

 

⁸ There is another danger in quickly forwarding e-mails and text messages. In some lands, our work is under restriction or outright ban. Our opposers in such lands may purposely circulate reports designed to instill fear or to cause us to distrust one another. Consider what happened in the former Soviet Union. The secret police, known as the KGB, spread rumors that various prominent brothers had betrayed Jehovah’s people. Many put confidence in such false reports, and as a result, they separated themselves from Jehovah’s organization. How sad! Thankfully, many later returned, but some never did. Their faith was shipwrecked. (1 Tim. 1:19) How can we avoid such a disastrous outcome? Refuse to circulate negative or unsubstantiated reports. Do not be naive, or gullible. Be sure you have the facts.

9 minutes ago, Gone Away said:

Yes. I understand the confusion. I'm not sure of your native tongue, but likely you have a separate word for what is meant here. You know that the rather ambiguous language of English has many meanings attached to individual words. We call them "synonyms". Only regular usage helps with finding your way through this linguistic maze.

Anyway, the most appropriate synonym in this case would be (IMHO): "well known".

It makes sense that reporting defection by "well known" (prominent) brothers would be calculated to have the potential to alarm a greater number of faithful adherents than if such negative reporting was focussed on names of individuals that no one had ever heard of. I mean, isn't that why naming and attacking the reputation of members of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is an attractive pastime for those who wish to discourage the morale and activity of Jehovah's Witnesses in general?

 

Dear GA, terminology is in text of WT edition that Alithis Gnosis used :)) 

By that i conclude how writer/s of article knows very well about who they want to talk and addressed  such nomenclature. Because only those who are "prominent" in WTJWorg can be useful to KGB, giving particular information of interest or as literature said ,""confidential information" who are not for those who are not "entitled" to hear"". And that are people in position of authority aka elders of all levels.  

16 minutes ago, Gone Away said:

(Who are they???

they are ex JW 

One more thing about how many JW people are in the World. If i remember good enough Bible reports on how JHVH was never, never, never pleased if somebody want to count and in fact count people in tribes, Israel nation. And some very horror punishment came after this FORBIDDEN ACTIVITY took place. 

Well if WT teaching members how they must follow and respect all Bible principles and examples from day first and first letter of the Good Book, then why WT counting members at all? Did Jesus want reports of how many followers he have?   

And one more detail too. If they count they count only male members. Not women and children ... (baptized or not ---these is for this age of course in those times they was "baptized" in other way). 

On 7/8/2018 at 1:29 AM, Alithís Gnosis said:

The secret police, known as the KGB, spread rumors that various prominent brothers had betrayed Jehovah’s people

Why would be rumors that "Prominent Brothers" (in fact who are at all Prominent, by whom they are named as Prominent, all are equal ----IN THEORY only, haha) betrayed others? What is false with that, in general.

Judas the one of 12, and if we want to use same terminology as GB, Judas the prominent brother of first congregation betrayed Jesus. 

7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So if money is a product of Satan, could you please explain why money was used by God’s followers throughout biblical and historical history?

Perhaps they not get to some better idea :)) Or, idea "to not be part of this world"  working only to certain level. :))

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

 Her total sacrifice foreshadows Jesus' total sacrifice of his life via crucifixion.

Nice comparison. In material sense we can compare Jesus and Widow to some level. Before, until he came to age 30 Jesus making jobs and perhaps earn some "money" ( ohhh this money issue again :))))). Was he and his family poor or "middle class" Jew people. Guess he have simple (in material way) life, modest family.

How contrary in compare to nowadays religious leaders (even WT leaders about whom you hold back to make any comments)  who making big, expensive and modern worshiping centers, headquarters and handle with millions (currency).   

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I simply told you that imperfection was not because of money, of which you have stated,

You wrongly interpret my sentences. :)) ............ or my English can be reason for that.  

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You’ve made only a quote to verse 42, so how does that help your resolve? The WidowÂ’s Mite passage is in regards to those making contributions to the Temple of Jerusalem, for Jesus gave praise to her because what she donated to be greater than that of the wealthy, furthermore, The Temple itself is the main base of operation of Jesus and his Disciples at the time. If you have forgotten I stated several passages in regards to JesusÂ’ working regards to the gospel, hence why I made brief summary of each passage as well as making known of a passage you refuse to make acknowledgment of in terms of context. If you have not noticed, I spoke of the passage in full to which you thought at verse met nothing.

Jesus and his Disciples not only had replacement sandals at the time, they had knapsacks, such as food pouches and moneybags, for in some of their travels such was necessary because traveling on foot is a daunting task, granted if you are aware of the amount of time it takes from point A to B, city to city, village to village, etc.

It is also mentioned, as in my previous comment of Temple Tax, which is something totally different from making free will offerings via treasury chest, which amounts to not even you being able to understand the passage, hence not making the application. In the early days of JesusÂ’ ministry, there were religious leaders that were testing Jesus, not realizing who he is and they knew Simon PeterÂ’s affiliation with him, and we see the lesson of that passage that God provides, which resulted in payment of both Peter and Jesus, despite the fact that Jesus, who is of the FatherÂ’s House, being exempt. You also fail to see that Simon Peter was the earliest of JesusÂ’ Disciples.

Lastly, I would mention the whole passage about Judas, despite him being a thief, Jesus gave him a moneybag to watch over and we know what took place from there. This I will address somewhere below in full colored text.

That being said, the main source of their moneybag derive from the Temples and Synagogues that has well over a dozen treasury chests and a main one where all funds are put into, said money is used for the Temple, for the community of said Temple, to feed the poor, to provide for the ministry, and a list of other things. Other things, however, were given out of hospitality and the like.

I really do not see what you are not getting and or not understanding.

How else you think they were being kept up in the ministry? How do you think they fed the poor and helped them? How do you think they maintained the Temple upon a list of other things? Surely the Treasury Chest/Boxes were not for show, mainly with how big the Temple was and how many boxes were present in the walls of the Temple.

Back to money issue? I concur, friend, if you have forgotten, this topic is of several things, Rick Fearon and the conspiracy crowd, Pearl, Trust and Funds in regards to money use and handling, misapplication of scripture to use against people and make claim to them being owner of something when in reality they are merely beneficiaries.

We only dwell into secondary things because of you bringing up things that leads into something else, i.e. Glasgow of which you made claim to and believe only to be proven as a lie, in fact, the video you posted (your post has been saved) defeats your own claim. You bring up Business Number lists as prove of something only to result in being known as a Registry of both education, financial and or religious institutions, you make claim as this is prove of something, but it is not and merely a registry and solely based in Australia.

Granted I used to work with Registry based frameworks before, I can spot this without really making much of an effort.

But anything to get me to response, yeah?

My upper thoughts as light? You couldnÂ’t even make any proof of such is of my own thoughts being integrated into what I say when everything said and expressed is of the Bible and nothing but, in addition to Christian history, manuscripts, the Greek/Hebrew language, etc. and outside of that actual fact based on careful research and or anything my sources have professed, should a situation that calls for it, in this case, it is solely the Bible and history of the Jews in addition to information about funds/trusts pertaining to the original argument in conversation with you.

The only time I raised my own concern, twice actually, was when I was discussing with Mr. Butler on this forum a while back in order to ease the situation and bring forth comfort based on my current experience in the matter and it was only that time, but that didn’t turn out so well because the person in question started to make accusations of someone else and it led to two threads with such being expressed, so what you are addressing – is unfounded.

The other time was in regards to Textual Criticism, hence by view of the KJV bible being a negative one and the fact that some out there consider the uninspired as inspired, regardless of who they are, it should be called out, at least one time someone tried to use a typo against me, granted I am a fast-typer and tend not to overlook what I write at times, attempted to make a claim I believe the KJV is 100% true when even before that I was being strict with Textual Criticism, even towards Allen when he mentioned the long version of a specific gospel, let alone nearly 2 decades of being against uninspired text and errors made in the KJV, the very reason I got into Hebrew and Greek to begin with. Moreover, I have given you quite the information on several occasions and even here, but you clearly do not make the application, even when said information originates from manuscripts of the Hebrew Text of which you yourself were not really accepting of it at first.

That being said, I told you this before, and like your other claims – such remains to be seen and what has been seen, as of recently, has been deleted, purposely, for if it had not been mention, such would have remained.

You continue to make the claim that money is a product due to inheritance of sin, so where in the bible does it indicates as such when we inherited sin the day Adam and Eve disobeyed and were kicked out of the Garden of Eden? Mind you, money in its earliest stages was the bartering system, trading of goods and resources in number, value, greater, lesser, so you cannot leave that out either, but maintain a focus to solely the successor of the system itself when they are technically two identical fruits of the same tree.

Now, as I have stated, but you keep egging on your own view of money that is a currency used and not what the bible speaks of money itself. That is where you are incorrect, thus the reason as to why I called your response as incorrect.

Money is not the sole cause of men to dwell in imperfection and or the cause of it, the fact that you make that remark just shows you clearly not understand properly what the Bible teaches on such a matter, you clearly do not take into account the events that took place in the Garden of Eden, hence your confusion in this domain shows just as clearly just as oneÂ’s reflect on a mirror.

Man has become imperfect due to sin (The Original Sin) and it is a result because of Adam and EveÂ’s disobedience, for originally, both Adam and then Eve were perfect and sinless prior to the original, Ancestral Sin, they didnÂ’t become imperfect due to the second money becoming a currency (money and or the bartering system didnÂ’t come into play until afterwards) because all they had was the Garden of Eden of which they had cultivated and lived in, the free will to dwell in parts of Eden, and later on, they, now imperfect, dwell outside of Eden until they grew old and eventually perished, all the children that Adam and Eve gave life to, all of them inherited sin from their parents, all the way down to this day, to you, to me, and to all here, born sinners, and due to free will, some use said free will to do bad intent with whatever means open to them, hence why I made an accurate response to people who become lovers of money instead of God as well as those who are of God who do good.

So in short:

• How did we become imperfect? Original Ancestral Sin in the days of Adam and Eve.
• How do we inherit imperfection? Our first parents were Adam and Eve who had already been kicked out of Eden.
• Who caused them to sin? Satan the Devil who spoke by means of a snake found in the Garden.
• How did they sin? Satan the Devil, as the snake, influenced Eve when she was alone, he influenced her by means of deception to have a desire to eat from the Tree of Knowledge (The Tree of Good and Bad), which was in the Garden itself, he even told her she will be like God if she ate from it, knowing good and bad, and we all know what took place from there.
• Why they were not supposed to eat from the Tree? Because God made such known, and should fruit be taken to eat from said tree, they will surely die. Death is of imperfection because incorruptibility is not corruptibility, hence why man is mortal and succumb to and to taste death.

So by your logic, since I am following:

• Did money influence man to build the Temple of Jerusalem where Jesus and the others had as a base of operation, only later on for 3,000 persons in said temple built due to money to have the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
• Was Jesus influenced when he gave out moneybags to even the likes of Judas?
• Was the Widow influenced when she contributed a small amount of coins vs. all the wealthy persons in to the Temple of Jerusalem, which was only built by means of money because it was said to be very expensive looking?
• And why would Jesus himself be in the Temple to begin with, sitting near the treasury chest, if the money use to build the temple was a product of Satan and or Jesus giving praise to a Widow?
• What of the Temple Tax verse (Matthew 17:27) that you appear to show application for, there was a coin in the mouth of a fish, if money was a product of Satan, why would Peter and Jesus use that to pay Temple Tax knowing that money is the root of, as you claim, imperfection?
• Moreover, why even use that passage and make it a verse of which you abide by when you are clearly contradicting yourself by saying the opposite?

See how that sounds? That sounds silly and it just shows you are still dwelling in utter confusion and or just ignoring the truth itself in this domain.

But according to you, everything is a product of Satan, but for some odd reason the Internet you are using is somehow not a product of Satan. Unless you have some unknown biblical indication as to why money is only of Satan but the Internet itself is excluded, which costs money to both use and operate. Hence I consider such to be hypocritical of your last response vs. your other one:

The fact you mention the Temple Tax verse and I quote: This verse "proving" my view and understanding on Jesus act: -------------- “But so that we may not offend them, go to the sea, cast a hook, and take the first fish you catch. When you open its mouth, you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for you” and Me.??

 

You clearly said money is a product of Satan and yet you see here how the Temple Tax was taken care of to, no pun indented; get Peter and Jesus off-the-hook, so to speak. What is the sudden difference between this coin and other coin(s) used when both are a source of currency?

All that aside,

Imperfection didnÂ’t begin when money came into the world (granted it is wise to consider what money was made out of, which came of the earth itself), it was the original sin that caused imperfection and coupled with our free will, Satan was/is able to exploit people and or influence them once he is able to get his hands on them. An example would be like Judas Iscariot:

With that explanation out of the way money is used by both the good and the bad, money does not influence all men to do bad and or is the root of imperfection, for instance, you accept the situation with Peter and Jesus, they technically used money to cover Temple Tax, it does not make the both of them automatically evil when by the law the tax was paid, Jesus himself was not only exempt because it is His FatherÂ’s House, but Jesus was a born Jew, clearly above the age of 20. And it is obvious that Satan was not behind them when the money taken and used and I doubt Satan was behind the fish in the first place that just so happens to end up on a hook out of mere coincidence.

Satan can influence those with greed and or given into such, as well as corruption, again, the same case with Judas for we know he is a thief and didn’t really care for the poor, nor did he care for the ministry and or anything connected to Jesus, all he cared about was the money – therefore, Judas being a lover of money, and we know Satan entered Judas only after the fact Jesus rebuked him. For the other 11 took money to do good while only him, Judas, took the money for himself.

This applies to us in the modern day:

We are all born sinners, yes, we all have free will, understandable, we are all also imperfect, for last I check, there isnÂ’t a human alive who I exempt from injury and death.

Nobody is standing behind money, lawless acts regarding money is only done by those who have the intent to do bad with said money and do bad to obtain it, hence my response on influence and those being lovers of money.

I told you already, if money is a product of Satan, where in the Bible does it say that? You refuse to answer this for a number of times now and as predicted you will make claim to such again without merit. If it is a product of Satan, why are people seen using it mainly those who follow the teachings, mainly those who are in application of the church Jesus built more than 2,000 years ago are doing? You refuse to answer that also.

We can remove money from the world 100% but now you have the predecessor, The Bartering System which is a form of trading products and or goods, you never made response as to such if that was also removed since it has connect to currency use. What of it then, Srecko? Clearly without such there would be utter chaos and worldwide thievery at a grand scale, for if we cannot get something for it is someone else, it will be stolen and simple to the most grime situations will unfolded due to such. I am pretty sure a thief will not come to you and ask you nicely he is going to take your livestock, he will take it by force, even if it means cutting you down, and since there is no money or bartering, you might end up in a similar situation yourself, hence term, dog eat dog is quite fitting in such a situation, and even to this day there is an area in this world, I will give you a hint, it is a Hispanic country as to which currency from an online fantasy video game has even surpassed them for it is that bad there and the only dollar there is literally used as toilet paper. Why is this so? Corrupt men who run the country.

On the contrary, there are many, many people who are neutral, including me, always have been since I left the islands as a child, and I know of others due to my experience, mainly to places I have been and traveled to. Neutrality in a sense to not falsely accuse and or make some false accusation that holds no proof, hence my response on this topic and as to others in addition to other things. I can make a distinction of who is of Babylon and who is not based on mainstream vs. actual Christendom itself, and those who make the attempt to and or strive to follow actual Christianity compared to those who are too relaxed, lukewarm, ignorant, confused, new aged, or not even making an attempt.

I do not pick sides, though, I speak up when someone speaks of conspiracy and or misconceptions of a belief and or practice, and the main thing I am usually against is those that consider the uninspired and heresy to be true, when in reality it is not as well as the primary core of mainstream Christianity itself which is not biblical – The Trinity. The refutation and fight against the Trinity has increased since mid 2015 and onward, look at the percentage of mainstream Christianity now around the world, people are starting to see who God really is and not what mainstream Christians are teaching of who God is.

If you are forgetting, you were considering the Glasgow incident as legitimate proof, and I, analyzing the information pointed out your so called proof was indeed false, and perhaps you only removed said comment so it would not be mentioned again, no worries, I have the quote here:

Srecko Sostar Quote - July 17th, 2018

 

The December 9, 2017 post of which you pulled your own information from makes the claim that:

Srecko Sostar Quote - December 9th, 2017

You believed this is 100% truth and was duped into this belief, thus claiming it to be true by both comments made by you, you make mention of it a year later, 3 days ago in fact to me, but when actual true is spoken and revealed the fact that you didn't pay attention to what the video had said, thus making you the type of person to believe a lie without even doing the research, mainly as to if said lie was sold to you because it looked that good, that is eating fruit from a tainted fig tree, my friend. And the result?

Srecko Sostar Quote - July 18th, 2018

It was both posts (2 not 1) that was deleted and I do not suppose it would have been removed if I never went into full, typical Space Merchant strict detail with all of words boring teacher mode, on the matter. This shows that you are willing to even make acknowledgement of what is true and what is not true when corrected, and this time, it didn't take the rank and file of JW, as you made mention of, to point that out for you, granted all comments of true was wiped out by the person who posted the video and misguided people.

I called you out and we can see the mention of Glasgow is deleted here and it the December post in early 2017, the 9th, you also deleted at the same time, but it would seem you got rid of the other one before the recent one, hence the information I was able to pull, the proof is here:

So if you say JWs got money from a sporting event and think it is the true, why should I remain in silence about this claim you made by bringing up the truth to begin with? You cannot give say something is apple pie only for the person to bite into the pie and realize it is peach, they will call you out on the mix up of which you bring forth claim to.

You seriously think someone would sit back and accept this lie? Clearly things like this do not sit well with me of course, I will speak up. Not only you deleted the post here, but you went as far back to December 2017 to remove the thread itself, even thought I never made mention of it under after the fact; you made claim about the faith gaining thousands of dollars from sporting events, when that information is untrue, and even the video itself is further proof of both you and the poster of the video being false about the information when the Watchtower was only in Glasgow for a Convention (There is proof of this too), nearly 2 weeks AFTER to use the SSE Hydro, the same place the sporting events took place way before the gathering of the faith even took place. So of course, I will speak of the truth and nothing that, as well as rooting out the truth from conspiracy, untruths and misconceptions.

So it is not a matter of taking sides, for I can agree with a man who says God is One, but I cannot agree with a man who says Jesus is God, therefore, the unlearning of lies must take place. I can agree with a woman who speaks about a passage and make application of scripture, but I do not agree with her when she makes an application that does not connect with someone and or it is used to target someone or something. If I am not mistaken, you yourself took a side and in believing the information of Glasgow to be true, even making mention to money earn by the faith when said money never existed and or was made known, that information didn’t exist, the true to the lie you believed in prompted you to go back in time to erase any traces of it, but my friend, this information is immortalized (the thread cannot be seen by anyone because of your action, but the quote I saved from you and what Admin can see is enough proof to the untrue claims you made - then again, you fell for conspiracy from the get-go and changed your mind instantly over night when corrected), just as those who also called this out only to have their comments removed by the poster of that video, as well as removing traces of the actual bbc uk news lengthier version of the video. This also goes for your Registry links which turn out to only defeat the purpose of which you attempted to represent to claim. The truth itself has been revealed, and there is no question you made the application to be proven wrong on the Glasgow situation.

I also found the actual video of Jehovah’s Witnesses using SSE Hydro, nearly two weeks after the sporting event, the same venue used by the Commonwealth Games about weeks before (the date of which the convention was held, before was a wild shooting in the dark but the date I got correct) You tell me as to where the profit from sporting event is coming from, and or what you have said back in December" JWorg attracted thousands of people and millions of pounds to Scotland on XX Commonwealth Games, Glasgow 2014"

As for the original subject at hand, Witness brings up things in regards to Rick Fearon, to which I made the call out that Rick Fearon is considered both false and a fraud, not only by former JWS, but others, even atheist and for a list of reasons this can be said, even to the point I repost information from Rick Fearon Supporters themselves. Onward, Witness bring up information to make it seem the Watchtower is the one and true owner of the several companies and Trust funds, I did the research and found out that most if not all turned out to be conspiracy and or a hoax, even said by former members of the faith, moreover, found out and gave information, from the source itself, that the faith is not an owner, but a beneficiary, from an investors standpoint of said information I gave you the information also, even the investor website links and quote but you ignored it.

We can speak on their belief all day if you’d like, clearly there would have to be another topic for that or that of Bible Discussion, but to say of them that they own this or that and there is no proof, it should be expected someone to say something when they make the research, after all, that large quote came from a former JW, who knows everything about funds, yielding on his information what did you expect the outcome to be? According to a former JW who spent his time looking into this issue – He wants to settle this whole trust fund thing once and for all, and of which he successfully did with each point made. The same way a few people brought up the tax return vs. tax by means of charitable trust.

Granted that I spent most of my time reading and studying as a child rather than waste time in from of a TV and spend hours upon hours upon games like Super Mario Bros. and Final Fantasy. When it came to the Bible, it was in strict application to the point by the age of 5, reading the Bible for hours, meditation, research, application and examples, etc. The first Bible I was ever given was The American Standard Bible, in both English and French, and in those days it is very uncommon for a child who has not even hit the age of 6 yet, who is of color and an islander, to have such knowledge in reading, as well as biblical knowledge at that age. I was able to recite passages from memory and or have an outline in my mind of what verse and or passage is saying, eventually even learning both Greek and Hebrew, again due to what I had learned about the KJV, on a basic level, aside from English, Spanish, French, and Creole, later on, being a bit more intermediate, perhaps high when excelled in Greek and Hebrew, therefore, knowing a total of 6 languages. Another thing about me is at first I didnÂ’t believe Jesus pre-existence until after I read the whole Bible for the first time, for originally I was a Unitarian that didnÂ’t believe in pre-existence, but application of context of the Bible and learning the actual Christology changed that. And ever since then to now, I have read the bible from Genesis to Revelations several times now, for the Bible says to read the word day and night and to not cease in doing so, even if it is just a verse, I was always told, at least I take something of the word and mediate on it for that day, this goes for doing something for God also, for even a second we cannot get back so everyday something for God has to be done, whether it is a minor and or major thing, big or small, but what is done is for God on that day for a day we cannot take back once it is gone, an hour, a minute, second, even a millisecond, so I do take biblical things very seriously and base application in response of the scripture and historical fact in terms of Christianity and eventually took part in the CSE community and many branches to said community, to which I was a total newbie there until eventually I wised up to what I am now in a space that is trying to learn what the Church had taught as well as history among other things. Over my studies, I was also introduced to Judaism and Islam as well, despite my sole belief of originate is actual Christianity, oppose to the mainstream Christianity, which is largely followed by those in the United Sates. I myself have also confronted and befriended members of Judaism, Islam, and even JehovahÂ’s Witnesses. Some Trinity believers are friends of mine, even then I teach them of how the Trinity is not biblical. I even met those who have no idea what a Bible is and people who met such ones overseas, those of other kinds of authority. So I have quoted the portfolio.

As for my conclusions about the Jehovah’s Witnesses, as I stated before, I know of them because I did study about Restorationism, denominations who practice as such, as well as Non-Trinitarianism. The discussion of this thread is whether the Watchtower is actually of what Rick Fearon says they are, one of his primary  things his supporters bring up is that they deny Jesus, which is false. His audience believes that Jehovah’s Witnesses stash weapons under their churches and even their main facilities, weapons to be used when the end times conclude, but this information is unfounded for a number of reasons, JWs are not known to carry out Christian Terrorism that resembles the likes of Radicalized Islam (in comparison to the likes of Christian Militants, The Westboro Church, The Ku Klux Klan, The Crusaders, and actual religious Extremist, etc.) It is also spoken of that followers of Fearon will state that The Watchtower had sent boxes of poisons to each and every JW church so that the JWs of the church are to consume it in secret, to add more fuel to the fire, JW opponents believed this to be true and even made conspiracy and other forms of media about such, comparing this unfounded belief coming from Fearon supporters to be true who compare the actions that all JWs will be forced to a commit mass-suicide by means of poisoning equaling it to the Jim Jones situation of the 1970s whereas Jones subsequently committed a mass murder-suicide of 918 followers, 304 of whom were children, almost all by cyanide poisoning by means of Flavor Aid, this prompted the saying drinking the Kool-Aid. For someone to believe that, to make such a comparison and make it truth just shows that it is nonsense and total conspiracy. No one is going to believe JWs harbor weapons that their religious leaders teach them to kill those who do not believe since they are not part of the military and or take affiliation, perhaps members who join are either former military and or about to leave the service of the military. No one is going to believe JWs will drink poison on a day of great tribulation by means of the end times and or use against those who do not believe what they believe and or spreading interfaith beliefs. We can go as far back as to the pastor of Bible Students, no one is going to believe he is a Freemason and or included by them when no Masonry Registry even shows his information, tenet and or Lodge information as well as status, not even current Masons consider him to be one of them, and a source, 2 in fact, who had studied the matter for more than 60+ years also say the same thing. So that is why I draw conclusions to fact, only one side is stating such conspiracy without proof, the other side provides proof that counters conspiracy.

In a sense, for example,

This is why I do the research and get my conclusions based on facts and nothing but the facts. This is the same with what Witness brought up in his list whereas most turns out to be conspiracy and or a hoax and reveal that the Riley Trust owner is not the Watchtower, Rand is not of the Watchtower either because the Watchtower does not harbor Navy based contracts, and all others listed turns out to be false.

That being said, no man with a straight face and not a drop of sweat on his brow, would make claim that the Watchtower owns a company and is in support of selling and buying by means of stocks and bonds of WomenÂ’s Lingerie, as JW opponents did make the claim among the list that the Watchtower is involved with stocks and bonds of VictoriaÂ’s Secret as with others, proven to be unfounded. That claim, in of itself, is as absurd as saying pigs can fly, claiming such as truth. Therefore, people will say things, and expect a response. It is one thing to speak on how they do things, but to bring up conspiracy that holds no truth to it, a call out to those who make false claim will be met with a response.

I only asked you a few questions, a primary one is to make proof of indication, of which you made no acknowledgment of. You can address it here now, but it is unlikely you can make the attempt and simply ignore it another time.

Aside from the biblical indication that money is a product of Satan

 

How is this irony if I made an answer to such? If someone says the Watchtower has guns and poisons, of course I know it is untrue so I will speak. If someone says the Watchtower owns stocks and bonds, and it is found out to be untrue, I will speak. I do the same in defense of those who are blamed for murders in the Middle East and elsewhere when the reality is they are not all enemies, Sunnis, Shias are not all terrorist as the media makes them out to believe, fear mongering leaving to an up spike in Knife killings in the EU, specifically the UK. For instance, I made mention before that it was not terrorist that put the bodies of Christians at the bottom of a Well, it was US supporting allies that did it, and the US is shifting blame on to someone else getting people to believe it, thus removing any form of prove outside of mainstream media. When it comes to the Bible, if someone says another man and or group does not follow the Christ or make the attempt, and knowing the Christology and History, I will speak of the group and correct the misconceptions and untruths said, at sometimes I tend to be briefly strict, that is how we islanders role anyways. In this sense, your claim on Glasgow, of which you think you wiped out in order to cover yourself – you are the first here to delete something of which you said not of this year, but of last year when a correction has been coined.

I am a supporter of the Bible and if a man says Jesus is God, he will be dealt with true and fact, not believing in the Trinity is not an automatic support of the Watchtower, it does not automatically make one denying Christ (the expression “You Deny the Christ if you don’t believe he is God”, as mainstream ones say) because in the early days of the 1^st Church, they never believed Jesus to be God, but the Son of God, the Watchtower itself clearly does not support the Trinity either, and the only reason they are structured the way they are because they are not mainstream Christians, but rather, Restorationist Christians and how the church was structured in those days they make an attempt to apply such, the same can be said with others, if not all Non-Trinitarians who make the application of what the Church had done in both teachings and the actions of which Jesus entrusted, they even admit to such, albeit some do it better than others, while others tend to have the mainstream Christendom get the best of them. The same can be said about the whole Jesus being Michael, you believed for at least I assume, in the other thread, that this was of Watchtower origin and or allude to such, but it was also mentioned by me and a few others, the belief that Jesus being Michael predates the JWs by centuries, fragments in the 2^nd century and between the 6^th-9^th century, only began and looked around centuries later and onward to present day. So it is not a matter of who supports who, it is a matter of who is making the application of what is true vs. what is not true.

I am neutral because as a God fearing man, I do not want to falsely accuse and be judged in front of the Great White Throne, if you do not know what the Great White Throne is, than clearly you havenÂ’t read into what Judgment involves, hence why I am in all seriousness of what is said in Revelations 20. I do speak up when someone speaks of ill-information of something, someone and or of a group and I do speak up when one speaks of uninspired things and or of the accursed, but to any man who makes application of the early church, I tend to be careful with because the slightest of error can land you in the face of judgment.

No, it is not about living a life of silence, it is about speaking up of untruths. Clearly you made the claim that the Glasgow thing was a profit for the Watchtower, it was called out to be a lie of which you believed, which you tried to paint as truth and when such call out was made, you deleted both the July 2018 post as well as the December 2017 post at the same time on the same day, I guarantee if nothing was said, you would have kept it up and stuck with it. The same can be said of trying to make some kind of proof of a Registry based in Australia that covers institutions involved in businesses, religion, education and or other in solely Australia, what you avoided in those links of which you posted was not just it being a Registry of information, but the very fact that it points to the group of some Charitable and Non-profit status. I even made a remark to this, you evaded it. The same claim can be made by those who attempt to paint someone as those being of Babylon, when in the end, it is unfounded, for the faith in question is a target of Babylon, for Babylon will root out those who try and or make an attempt to follow the Bible in the end times and tribulations and eventually the nation will turn on Babylon and the hunt for those who make an attempt to follow the Bible will take place. Last I checked, JWs were not involved with Kairos, LT, Peak and all connecting branches to the E.I.I. Granted that I am aware and observant of what is happening in Russia and other areas, mainly the EU, and take information from a good source there, it is clear with said information in mind from in-depth research of who is really of Babylon and who isnÂ’t, moreover, who is doing the bidding of the Spiritual Mother who is on a conquest for both Peace and Conquest to defile GodÂ’s teachings and imprint their own form of religion and faith on to those of the world.

I simply asked you to make proof of a couple of things. You were wise into to deleting what you claim as proof. Never have I challenged oneÂ’s emotions, in fact, the only time my thoughts were in implication was when I eased someone here on the matter and the situation of things regarding what we see in the world. I can get strict at times, however the end result is the same.

I speak against biblical heresies as well as misapplication of verses, yes, but as you can see I have a corral with those who think Jesus to be God and not the Son, or those who believe in a Triune God, which was the case with Jesus Defender the Deserter for clearly he was not just blind, he shed greater ignorance to that surpasses his own ego. The only reason my responses tend to be long was the result of the Trinitarian who now resides solely in Bible Discussion, Cos, who likes to take jabs at beliefs vs. making the Trinity seem superior, he only stop when his own lie came back to bite him in the end, but even still he makes passive remarks in his belief regarding the holy spirit. Other than that, I am aware of situations and the unlike some who are quick to yield upon their own understandings of what others profess, I do the research of historical evidence and or by means of the Bible, when it comes to other forms of media, I rely on very credible sources of where I get information from, one of them being very accurate in the current things taking place around the world.

And yet for the Glasgow claim of yours and try to point out as actucal truth, not a single verse was used when a correction had been made. What of it then?

So if money is a product of Satan, could you please explain why money was used by GodÂ’s followers throughout biblical and historical history? We can exclude Judas because your observation consist solely on any man using money is using a product of Satan, of which an unfounded bible indication, that you made a remark about, has yet to be seen.

Another factor is: Why are you using the internet to use this forum if it takes money to even allow you to be here in the first place? After all, money was involved in the internet being a thing in the first place as well as keeping it running, $100-$200+ billion dollars a year, minus the inclusion of ISP of which any of them equals to that of your provider who also bears responsibility in revenue going back and forth, which you and I both know the both of us are using – therefore, it defeats the purpose to claim, of which you made, mainly if we are talking in regards to money itself.

You said it yourself, it is based on your conclusion of what is being addressed, therefore I merely told you that you are incorrect, nowhere did I make mention of false teachings - anywhere. I also pointed out that the Bible makes no indication that money itself is a product of Satan, for if it was a product of Satan than all who used money is in an endless loop of hypocrisy as well as use of the bartering system, ruled out to be of the Devil as you allude to in terms of currency usage and or forms of trade.

I told you specifically money is used by the good and the bad. The good use money to provide and survive. The bad use money for lawless acts and will commit lawless acts to gain and or receive more money. Such ones become lovers of money, on the other side of the spectrum, God makes approval of those who use money for is of good things, even if it means in support of him, as in ministry, feeding the poor, etc.

I am not being fanatical just for making call outs and saying what is indeed true, simply stating the truth and the facts to each point, even bring forth into what is actually said over that of conspiracy and I am not one to be in favor of conspiracy, as you may already know from our past discussions, mainly on the subject of Religious Rights. I stated time and time again and even before that there are those who do things with bad intent, be it to people in order to have some sort of gain, in this case either material and or money. These type of people make money their God, thus the verse I mention about Two Masters.

The Bible makes an indication of things that are used and how people tend to use them, that is why I pointed out how you are incorrect to say that money is a product of Satan, if that were the case, it would make us all hypocrites, moreover, you put yourself in a hypocritical light for 2 points:

 

[Point B] You agree with what a verses says, which points how to Jesus, who is clearly exempt from Temple Tax because he is part of his FatherÂ’s House, the religious leaders view of Jesus, and only see him as PeterÂ’s teacher. We see how the situation was handled with Temple Tax payment, with coin, money. What you didnÂ’t see was the lesson learned from this passage and the fact that the people at the time had the Law of the Jews and clearly the only person who is of the FatherÂ’s House, hence being sent (Shaliah) is Jesus. We later find out of what Jesus spoke of in regards to authority and taxes in the Mark verse, coupled with cross-references. Since you agree to this, but turn around and say money is of Satan, then clearly the fish should have stayed in the Water and not get hooked, and the position Peter and Jesus were in would be far different because of the religious leaders themselves. Which leads to you clearly are using money be it knowingly and or unknowingly, so why make the contradiction in what you think in the right and deem other things in the wrong?

So to say you agree with one passage about money use and to disagree with several if not others, that shows a contradiction right there.

Clearly, you are not using money for lawless acts and or misdeeds that result in unrighteous riches and or wealth, something of which I know the both of us can agree on since you coined the term to begin with prior to the Glasgow comment. However, clearly you are confused on the matter, but you are a good person and wise with spending and usage of money, that same money is the very reason you are able to login today and make a comment, let alone that same money you pay for goes to your ISP, to its workers and the other form of revenue goes to other sources, with the primary source keeping the Internet afloat (well until anti net-neutrality changes are made of course in the US) therefore to say money is a product of Satan and to assume all men who have money by means of payment, donation, and or other means as having Satan behind them, is ridiculous, I do not see how a Father buying a Spider-Man action figure for his Son and on the same day, buy a chocolate sundae with sprinkles on top for his Daughter, and finally paying for medication to help his wife cope with injury, all having to do with Satanic intent and or backing. Nor was it the case with Peter and Jesus, taking a coin from a fish, to be a product of Satan when used to over taxes of the temple, according to the Law.

What is very true is that people CAN be lovers of money (in the father example another father can us the money to buy a large amount of alcohol and drink drunken-like effects kicks in), hence Judas Iscariot or the merchants of the temple, which in the merchants case they were not suppose to make the house of God into a place of commerce, and it is the only time in the Bible Jesus was actually angry.

So therefore, this is why I consider this personal claim of yours of be as unfounded, which in turn, be incorrect, just as the Glasgow remark and what I have expressed to be the truth of the matter, men can be lovers of money, yes, but men can also use money wisely, in a sense for good, and at times in a way God approves.

Just remember that you said it yourself, you pretty much agree with Matthew 17:27.

Other than that, what I addressed about money on page 2 I will leave it here because just mentioning it is not enough for you it seems.

 

You are most definitely, undeniably, welcome.

Thanks for these last sentence in your comment. :)))) Despite our disagree on some subjects i am glad that i met you in this forum. I see you love what is sincerely and good and such things.

 Of course you can not escape from your inside impulse  to  put on my nose so many times that Glasgow issue, but hey, we are all imperfect, even you  :))))  so i will not put some Bible verses about that, you already know them :)))

6 hours ago, Gone Away said:

8 hours ago, Anna said:

these elders gave the impression that they knew nothing about how to handle this issue.

These elders, it appears, broke the law.

After watching ARC testimonies  of Australian elders on same issue, i can agree how both of yours statement are good in all 3 elements:

1) elders gave impression (of all kinds in my perception. WT organized all sort of curses for elders, well maybe curses are useless or children aka elders in such  school are lazy students)

2. they knew nothing about how to handle this issue (must be taken in consideration how WT Legal Department guiding elders and expects from elders to be in line with these WT provision. Did elders ask WT or not, what was given  instructions and other details are unknown) 

3. elders broke the law (good or not "Worldly law" must be obeyed if elders respect verses in Bible about secular authorities)  

1 hour ago, Gone Away said:

Maybe they actually gave out of hers: Luke 20:47.

For sure, i agree on that. You made very good context of Bible verses :))

On 7/18/2018 at 7:23 PM, Shiwiii said:

I don't see it as wrong to eliminate these types of people, as well as those who allow this to happen over and over by not bringing it to light, from civilization, for obviously they are not civil. 

very strong, ... but at the end of a day, if god want them to live, he can resurrect them in NW or somewhere else in Universe (if human made death penalty over such criminals as in old Bible time)   

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So I ask you, a Widow has money, she is influenced despite being praised by Jesus? I believe I asked you this before but you are not trying to answer that question - this is understandable because the contradictions is seen.

You explain already how satan making influence on imperfect, sinful human. What else need explanation. Who influenced Widow, how should i know, because no bible verse, as to my knowledge, giving direct answer on this question. I am sure that you would know Bible verse if such exist.

Jesus made commentary on Widow act of putting all money she have. He not made any comment on why she put all her money. Jesus only established few facts; - that she is very poor and how other people who donate were very rich, and by his opinion she gave more then rich people because she gave all she had, and as result she had done, she had no money for food or drink.

Bible text said nothing that Jesus recommended such acting to his disciples and how all who follow Jesus teachings today must doing the same - to give last penny to Church.  - my answer :)) ------ or maybe i do not see  full context :))))

Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

My only question to you is, did you not read the Hebrew Old Testament???

to escape your objection how i don't answer on your question. Yes i did read OT. :))

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Are you serious? If you are forgetting we are imperfect because of what our first father and mother had done

You have explained before how all bad in the human today is because we are imperfect. And that we are imperfect because of Sin (Adam and Eve) If we sinning because we are IMPERFECT, then Adam and Eve have made sin because they are PERFECT? Mr devil made also sin not as imperfect but as perfect son of God.

And still you want from  me, the imperfect man, to prove you all with a Bible? :))))