Srecko Sostar

...so all angels with princes and chief princes and archangel are in fact - GODS :)) Ok, and what with that? Humans are gods, angels are gods. I now that verse you cited. If they all are gods that not explained Is angel Michael became Jesus the Human or not.

If we want to stick to Bible text and his own word, he said about self: "I am life, truth, way, bread, door, light, wine, water, rock ... " ...so if translation are credible, he not only "expressed" those qualities, but all of that are his essence, his being, his self.

About minimum wage and high education. That is problem of "market" and need for this or that profile of workers, where you live - in what part of world, how is economy in your country etc, etc. So, accepting advice - go to be doctor or go to be blacksmith depends, in my opinion, on various factors (individual, social and so), and as such it is not good for person to make conclusion on basis of his "religious insight" about answer; when will end come? So why to be doctor, in NW doctor will be without job :)))) If you choose wrong, and finally end as professor or plumber, do not blame god or devil for that, blame yourself, or your advisers if you need to blame others. Blame greedy people, bad circumstances, wrong day of your birthday, wrong country where you live, tornado or flood, ....and remember that you read in Bible, " All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad,[a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not." -- "So I took all this to heart and concluded that the righteous and the wise, as well as their deeds, are in God’s hands. Man does not know what lies ahead,whether love or hate" "Their deeds, are in God’s hands" this is not light statement, but one of interpretation could be that your god will, wish, plan for you is to be doctor and not window cleaner with half time job and other part in pioneer service with wt magazine. Can that be possible? Yes, if you believe in meaning of Ecl verse and statement that human are clay and god is potter, who shape you as he wish (or in harmony with facts, who you are at this moment, your deep state of heart, mind and other unknown facts that reveal who you really are) :))) Do not seriously accept all here said from me, I just gave to myself some freedom to interpret mix of bible, wt, worldly and personal "insight". About costs for study. It depends where you live. So, in some country it is not so difficult to pay some costs for high education. Again, perhaps you and your friends living in wrong country. :))) Need for this or that profile of workers are problematic and many jobs that not required more years in school are empty because young people are not interested to work simple jobs or skill jobs, but reasons for that are many and people can see why, so here is no need to talk about that.

... and now you can open discussion about what me, you, other, WTJWorg think about - What does in fact is content, relevance, intent of phrase: IN SERVICE of GOD, and on other side HOW LOOKS to be IN SERVICE OF MAN :)))))) Final product of theoretical and practical action of someone (single or in group) who is "in service of God is/are" something as follow: 1) I'm certainly right and everyone else is wrong 2) God loves me because I love him 3) I belong to the only true religion, so I'm sure right when I do this service of god in this way 4) My religion (me and my bro and sis, elders) is not perfect but is the best in the whole world :)))

...janitor or lawyer... window cleaner or bank director - all have chance to be very happy or very unhappy. ...religious or atheist... member of JWorg or member of some other group - they all have same/similar problems. But when WT chiefs princes teaching the flock to be poor in "worldly Truths" aka education but to be reach (i mean rich - you see what looks like when you have lack of education  ) in "WT Truth" aka uninspired, err doctrines and instructions that have to be obeyed,  that have to guide your personal life ... then your primary goal, inside need to be happy, as a human, is under attack of Organized, Corporation's manipulation.  Â

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Bible is full of prophets ... and many of them spoke His Word. The Word is described as god, God. Michael never has been described as god or God. Prophetic Word or word in Isaiah described one person, child that is born as; Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. So who is Jesus? Who is Michael the archangel? Who was in the beginning? God Jesus or God Word or not God Michael? Was Michael first and last? Michael was "just" one of the chief princes, according to Daniel book. Never titled as one of "gods", but one of chief princes. So who are, what are the names of other chiefs?? When, where and why Michael get new position, new title as Archangel? Do you talking about JHVH VOICE (spoken words without mediator)? Guess yes, because talking about someone with limitless power. So what was the role of the Word (prehuman Light, Jesus, Michael, or who ever) if not creating with his partner, father, God? "And God said; Let be the light... let be the earth...." Was His voice created the light, earth...and all other or was his Word (Son) working job to be done? Text said all was created to him, of him, trough him". For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. and categories of translations too. NWT or other translations have errors. Well, errors came not only because of our misunderstanding while reading, but because of what we reading too. If Word is prehuman Jesus, as you agree he is, and as WT agree he is.... then He was already above all creations and above all angels. Do not understand "prior to his resurrection, God has made Jesus Lord and exalted him above the angels"? If he (Jesus) is Michael the archangel, then he was above angels too, because he is ARCHangel. Who was exalted above angels? Jesus human or Michael the prince?? Verses state: "Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place, and gave Him the name above all names, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,… Text said that in the NAME JESUS all must knee. NOT In the NAME MICHAEL. So if Michael came to earth to be Jesus and then Jesus go back in heaven to be Michael again, as WT teach, then where is LORD (Jesus) who was exalted by God and all angels and all chief princes must knee to him, even archangel Michael also must bow down or worship his KING . Because Jesus is KING (was born as King) and Michael is just Archangel. I think all is about Hierarchy. But as JTR wisely said, "It's intellectually interesting ... in small doses ..." :))))

WT have interesting answer, statement on question. Interesting? YES, because John 1:1 gave INFORMATION that Jesus is/was WORD ( "Word" as name or as title or both?) in his prehuman existence --- NOT MICHAEL The archangel :)))). WORD have Ultimate status that is much, much higher then just of angel, even archangel status is. Or does some of you think that archangel was somehow participated in creation of life and all that existing, as Word did? If WT said Jesus is Michael, why i have never hear or read that WT said Word is Michael??? Who was in the beginning?? Michael or Word? According to this Bible text of course. Surely John would named Him (Word , God or god with The or A, what ever you like) as Michael if he was been under inspiration of holy ghost, spirit while he was writing verses. One answer is wrong. Or both are wrong? :))))

Agree, absolutely ! While watching second video with Gary's illustrations, examples, explanations in plastic way expressed ... yeah, even small doses of mental competence were NOT been visible, for sure. After mental gymnastic to understand and mental visualization (making picture on/of subjects) about given lesson on what porneia is and what is not ::::: you can cry or laugh ...out loud. Or both... out loud. What ever you choose is better then listen him /them again. :)))

please, who started with that thesis? and why JW continue with this as doctrine? :) thanks for answers

this link doesn't work, opens something else (Top 5 Fitness Gym Tips) can you see why?

He asking: "Why all 10 friends of mine looks like they believe in explanations, when to me something seems wrong with this thesis?? Don't YOU think the same?" hehehe

https://www.dss.gov.au/national-redress-scheme-for-people-who-have-experienced-institutional-child-sexual-abuse The National Redress Scheme will provide support to people who were sexually abused as children while in the care of an institution. We are pleased to announce that six major non-government institutions have committed to join the Scheme. The Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Salvation Army, YMCA Scouts Australia and the Uniting Church have all announced that they will join the Scheme and provide redress to people sexually abused as children in their care. (my add: WTBTS-JWORG of Australia not interested to help own members) When each state government or non-government institution joins up, it promises to pay for redress for people who were abused in its care. The Redress Scheme can provide three things: access to psychological counselling a direct personal response – such as an apology from the responsible institution for people who want it a monetary payment.

Thanks again GA. But  , as you well aware too, we can again make same self-deception, with such quote that "Scriptures ... reassure us that Jehovah and His Son Jesus Christ know their sheep..." Yes, i can accept that "They know their sheep", but in the same time humans(religions, believers) are implement that statement how they (people) know what They (JHVH and Jesus) know... how particular group are their sheep. :)) "I know what God know about me" - can you accept my statement as true, correct? Â

Regardless of the terminology and methodology we use to logically lay the foundations of what is true or false, with a mistake or without a mistake, correctly understood or incorrectly understood, and so on ... there is one more thing to be taken into account. That is: self-persuasion and self-deception. Most of people, of us, will think/thinks about self with believing that they are among those who are healthy, beautiful, smart, good, ... belonging to the right, true group, religion, politics, family, nation... etc. And with more self persuasion and self deception we are more sure in fictitious, wrong, err, distorted picture about yourself, who we are, what we are, and by that about other people, who are belong or not belong in "our group" or in "our idea" of how other people should be look like, think like, act like and all other likes. Good thing in such "self" can be self confidence and similar "selfie" that help us to survive in society. Bad thing is this. If we are wrong, and many times we are :)))), we are, because of our self persuasion and self deception in position to deceive other people because they can see our sincerity and our faith in "story" we talking about. Some will be sceptious but some will accept "our faith in truth", but that is in fact "faith in error, misrepresentation, misunderstanding, mistake, misapplication ...". :))

Illustrations and comparisons can be very chaotic. Some people who use them to explain a crazy idea in a plastic way, are silly too. For example, at a time when JW had five meetings per week, one speaker at the congress gave an example of bananas. "Banana has a bark consisting of five parts. In the same way the assembly has five meetings" he said. What a fantastic discovery, what a super illustration :))))))).

In the light of the doctrine that JW teaches; "God permits that good and bad things are happening on earth" - Can we comment on such judgment of this Court, as God's permission on/for secular authorities to decide about the life of Mr Wall, and also about the life of the assembly and the elders?? Does this "victory" is victory of JHVH ("vindication of JHVH righteous standards" as JWorg website has explaining) or the victory of WTJWorg lawyers or is this the victory of Satan who is the real god of this world, as Bible quotes? Who really won?? What god won in Canada? And what god won in Russia? :))))

perhaps Mr. Â Allen by that think;Â not to say nothing opposite to GBWT and to say nothing that challenge GBWT course of governing have to wait his respond

Please give me description, rules, methods and manifestation on this issue, HOW "POSITIVE" criticism look like? of course about WT included in story, not something else what is not theme in this panel discussion. In other words HOW LOOKS LIKE YOUR POSITIVE CRITICISM about your own religion (about self, about people and deeds and doctrines and instruction, rules, norms ...)?

Court has no jurisdiction to review cong. decision to shun sinful members or ex members. But some secular authorities have problem with some WT procedures, as 2-3 witness for child abuse, not call police in such case, male investigators on minor victims or female victims ... Maybe secular government must not need to be involved in "group internal regulations on membership" but some issues need to be concerned and reviewed, investigated by "outsiders".

... at least He done that twice in big, huge scale ... and several times in local need for "punishment" or "giving lesson" or "giving example" and so on. ... by that, perhaps entire nation (with every single person: male, female and child) was wicked through all the history of Old Jew nation??

Paul, as he was, might have had a fixed, imaginary idea that he is the one who will complete the preaching ministry, "all over the world" - (translated by WT to "the known world in the 1st century") The pause for the question: "Did the Greeks and Romans then,  also the Jews of that time of course,  believed and thought that the" world "consist only of the few hundred miles that Paul was traveling around ???? JW's modern "Pauls" (plural of Paul) preachers also lives in the belief that the end of the universe will come after encompassing the whole world with its preaching campaign. Very similar to Paul's idea and zeal. Unlike today's interpretations on "generation issue"  , the ruin of the then-known "world" has been happening in less than 40 years. So, for those who like to count and multiply, share and subtract  numbers - "generation life" has lasted much, much less than (?? number of years -- without complicated, confused, puzzling overlapping thesis to put in::::))))). "And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.h 31 And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven. - When and how did the Jews of the 1st century see all this signs? And by that, conclude that the "end of the world" is coming, is here ? This short expose is not for argue with you dear JW Insider, just rising questions that came Â

In process of reading many of your comments, especially about pregnancy and birth time, i learned a lot. But what is interesting to me in trying to connect all this information, i can put in this form of conclusion: What Jesus meant and why while using such descriptions - and what his listeners concluded and understand is one thing. Something else is what (second or third opinion...) is what we today thinking about all that and what we derivate as conclusion/s about what He meant or even told in original form before so many centuries. But human must try and try and try .... and never to stop

Hi. Does this graphic show actual-this moments situation or is it intention of draw to motivate observer to put all this (facts, interpretations, conclusions, perceptions ...)  in time-space dimension? :)))

I was born in a small town of a small country. I have a bit of school education and ordinary city life. But I'm becoming a peasant when I see how little I know and how much knowledge there is in this life - before, now and after today (yesterday, today, tomorrow) the past, the present, the future - in the eons of time. :))))