Srecko Sostar

bible have; NEW wine, commandment, king, house, ropes, wagon, moon, sword, garment, bowl, courtyard, witnesses, plant, skin, song, grass, spirit, ground, ones, instrument, things, something, name, heavens, earth, gate, covenant, days, heart, fruit, tomb, teaching, patch, wineskins, sense, lump, creation, man, force, personality, birth, Jerusalem, No new light ;))

Dear Fisher, Bible report give no evidence that Father have doubt in his motives or sincerity. And report said that Father response to son's words was this: 22“But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. No congregation declaration of dfd or announcement of his came back to congregation. No calling for elders to establish judicial committee to prove his changed behaviour and regrets. Nothing more than he solely said, claim on the road far from home. And no witnesses of their conversation. Just between him and Father. Father in fact not give any attention to past life of his son. No interest to hear and know - What he was done or why or how while out of home. Nothing, like it never happened. But in JW congregation dfd person must show so much proves that he "deserve" to come back. Bureaucracy! Father run to him!! Father run to him as soon he saw him, not waiting for him to come in shame and sorrow. Yes Fisher, we are from different planet for sure :)))))

Question is good and normal. "Controversy" came only from JWorg structural hierarchy that not allow questions. But now came on me also one thing. Bible have no report - did Adam or Eve asked any question about  anything to god. Is that not controversy also :))) Did they asked about tree, "apple", sex, purpose of life, snake that talks ... no, as far as book of genesis revealed about only two conversations that are mentioned and "inspired to be put on paper" we have this: Snake/satan speaking with Eve and Eve asked NOTHING. After that we have second conversation of JHVH and Adam (not with Eve too, as second human in entire World ??!!) and Adam asked NOTHING. Asking is not something what is normal part of conversation as first days of human shows. Although after we have some bible reports on conversation between humans and god, and humans asking god, this is significant how in first days of human existence god not found any importance to put in bible did they and if they did, what Adam and Eve asking JHVH! Does any have curiosity to ask JHVH about this in new paradise earth?  What if nothing controversial would not came from answers that god will give?   Â

!? when prodigal son spent all money, then he recalled how it is good in his father's home, and all comfort/luxury and food are there. Father not asked him nothing about repentance and change of behaviour !! He accepted sons words and not asking nothing and not "investigate" about truthfulness and sincerity and change of attitude or about his motives!!    Bible report say nothing about these and similar "details" that are very important to elders and JW members under influence of elders rules. Did he/she repentant "enough" and is "that sort "of repentance sufficiently visible to imperfect man/judges who will be able, by that outside picture, to make decisions does he /she "embarrassing" - who or whom or not.     !? perfect imitating of father's love Â

... this reminded me now on Law about food in OT Israel. Some food was "unclean" according to Law given by god. Before the Law and after the Law food have no etiquette - "pure/clean" or "unclean". For Jew to eat forbidden food was disgusting. Their "conscience" did not let them to eat such food. But that sort of "conscience" was not, i think, Natural conscience. In fact if we want to go so far - to  kill and to eat animal for food was/is also not Natural thing, for me  . So, What or Who shaped conscience of humans in the beginning (Adam and Eve period), further we have Noah time, and bible records about killing and eating animals with restriction on blood, and furthermore we have records on Jew nation and law about sort of animals meat that are forbidden. Other humans outside Jew have other concepts on food and god not judge them for that.  In all these we can see that shaping of humans (Jew) "conscience" was not came through inner state of feeling how should/need some things to be, here about food. No, it was came through commands, law, punishment if not hold the rule. I would say how such "conscience" was "trained" (similar as WT using frase "bible trained conscience"). Conscience of Jew people in those times came through rules, even sometimes without explanation why they need to doing things in this way and not in some other. In other cases some sort of knowledge exists and was also power, generator for adoption and acceptance of "general moral" aka "collective conscience" of nation. Individual in such nation, group, tribe, religion must force himself to doing things as all other doing, or if came as newborn baby, he/she was trained in this way and after that behaviour came as "normal". Also as is normal thing for some other people to eat snake, or to have few wifes, or to be vegetarian. In both case - in case of "conscience" and in case of "knowledge" we can see how both are relative and changeable, even if we talking about one and same god. Not to mention diversity of behaviour in specific nation, tribe, group in comparison to some other nation, tribe, group of all human family worldwide. greetings  Â

This remind me on innocence and purity that is beautiful characteristic of children. That is why Jesus talking of need to be like kids :)) Mind - intellectual ability. Conscience - inner feeling. Sometimes in harmony sometimes in opposition. But both are under influence of outside powers that can prevail.

:))) Some dear JWs in this forum persuade themselves and others that JW have the highest moral standards in compare to all other religions. And that is because they hold God's word, and how that god has fixed, invariable moral laws from the beginning of humans, from Adam and Eve. In proving that, JW said how Israel nation of OT era are the most advanced nation, how all was educated, have very hygienic standards, almost no poverty in some periods (we shall not mentioned slavery here, slavery of every kind and sources-sex slavery, economic slavery, slavery based on nationality and tribal affiliation). JWorg have no logical explanation on such and similar "anomaly" inside Israel, god's chosen organization/nation of past. This and other "moral anomaly" are regulated by perfect god's law. We can see that even bad moral behaviour of human can be justified by god JHVH and not be punished as braking of moral principles, but incorporated in Law and regulated by highest moral standards for immoral acts. As in this "case" of polygamy inside "clean nation". It is interesting what made god so tolerant about something that is not tolerated according to christian teaching and teaching of JWorg. JW consider themselves as legal continuation of god's organizations on earth. Yes, i purposely wrote organizations, in plural, because if JW are from god, then are also one of expression, structure, one in a row of successor who "represent" true god. As the heirs and legal successors of the organized religion, JWorg should be proud of all sort of inheritance -spiritual, religious, legal ... from OT Israel to today. And Israel kings, polygamists, are very important part of heritage. Man can be polygamist and true worshiper. History prove this claim. If things it is like this, JWorg can also have "kings" who act morally questionable, but in the same time be accepted by god whose moral standards can be adapt to lower level, adjusted to those who can not reach exaltation and perfection of god's law. If that is so, again, then why to be so harsh on members(cursed people, Am Haarets) who are just imperfect as "kings"? :)))

When Jesus called people (in his time Israel people) to give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God-whether Jesus in his words appealed to the conscience of men or did he established a new rule, decree, an unwritten rule? Because he wanted to accomplish brand new way of how to worship god, without written "Law". JWorg and some other Christian scholars, they note and conclude that the conscience of a man can make mistake and because that it is not the right benchmark for making decisions. In fact conscience is not/ has no ability to legalize and set general standards that would be unbearable and the only correct one for all people. Conscious is just our personal, inner feeling (some said it is connected with original sense given by god.) It is changeable, because it can be influenced by the group, society and the society's "collective conscience" (learned or imposed by some sort of "force", or willingly accepted) on our personal feeling that is different from the collective feeling. Take for example blood transfusion. JWorg said how full blood or blood fractions are matter of conscience. But if individual brake the rule according to his conscience no one (corporation, religion) will care for his inner feeling for bad and good, but will punished the owner of such conscience. Conscience is connected with free will. But, as history show "free will" is free as far as it is according to rule, law, standards etc. imposed by those in Power and who Rule over other. In some matter Higher power and individual found some sort of compromise. In some western country people can show "objection of conscience" (not go to military service, not making abortion as doctor in hospital...) but it is interesting why, how was come such evolution of thinking on the issue and changed position of thinking of those who create law, rule, public opinion. :)) Example you put about WT and documents are very good. Thanks! Just little contribution to your topic. Stay well!

I have no specific attitude about who is Father and who is Son, and who is Holy Spirit/Ghost. Even/ although i was ex-JW i am open to different explanation. Bible verses gives sometimes opposite ideas on same subject.

"Fight the good fight of the faith" :)) also in Bible

So called "two witness rule" that is so strong incorporated in WT interpretation of some Bible verses and practice in this modern time, give no other possibility to members but to obey this rule in everyday situations. Even when such hard, obdurate and unreasonable application of this rule create injustice, pain and suffer for person who is/was innocent victim of criminal and sinful act of other person (his/her brother or sister in congregation or even so called "worldly" person). Even Mat 18:15-17 speaking about some other kind sort of "witness"  and not about a witness of bad act, but witness of "victim" response to bad behaviour or deed that cause problem, harm to him/her. Here we have one Bible verse with brand "new" (for me new :)) perhaps not for you) look on how meaning of term "witness" found, establish different application then is known to many of JW today. How many "witnesses" gave testimony for Paul words? Two? Yes, answer is almost correct. But, take a look once again. Romans 9:1 nwt "I am telling the truth+ in Christ; I am not lying,+ since my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit," Paul and his conscience forming Two Witnesses. Who need more eye or ear witnesses after this Two ?  And what we shall do with holy spirit? Is it part of team and forms witness No 3 ?? :))  PS Paul claiming that his words are truthful by calling for Jesus as confirmation for that. Is Jesus next witness in line?

sometimes we spoke in peaceful way to avoid confrontations in opinion, standpoints. Sometimes that works and it is good, but sometimes looks like it is described in book of Revelation; "... neither cold nor hot..." :)

Hi! Acting, works of OT JHVH is very interesting in compare to NT era (Jesus period). In OT period Israel had a lot of emblems, flags, tribal and national identities items. Religious items too, angels images, snake image (in wilderness) and some other material things that had spiritual symbolism connected with supernatural power of god and even some sort of worship of god through such object. In period of Jesus, he was as JHVH son, showed no interest in such kind of worship, tradition, customs, folklore, outside spirituality and identifications to national and religious symbols. People of this World (worldly Word hehehhe), in religious and political way, have all that as old Israel and as all old nations until today. WT JWorg claim that they are not part of this World but practicing the same things as all other parts of this World. So, if i may ask you, What do you think by that when you said "JHVH is one who decides" - What he will decides according to your thinking? What are your expectations he would say?    Â

Shiwiii, You have 181 views until now. That is good. People pay little attention... in some way.

..... about ice cream? Yes there is warning about ice cream after sunday KH meeting :)))))

If we can believe in Bible report from book of Genesis, dressing style, fashion that Adam and Eve had, was very much naturistic. To be perfect, for Adam and Eve and for their Creator, it meant to be naked. Naked = Perfection. Perfection of Paradise and perfection of Human. Naked/nudity  it also means some kind of equality. In connection to dress that some person wearing can show his social and material status in society. His/her position in hierarchy. Or as you suggest "seriosity" and "professionalism" :)))) Ok, even if people would walk naked all day (some day in the future after Armageddon, hehehe) .... some bodies can show more perfection then others :))))))) So again people will have "reasons" to practice prejudice and  making "acceptable" standards how other should be looked and walk. With what hairstyle or beard style or some other private/intimate characteristic style. Sorry, not intimate, because today intimacy is covered with dress:)))))) In future paradise we/you shall have other sort of intimacy - uncovered intimacy. Because all life forms must be lived according to Nature not according to "civilization achievements" of this old devil system :)) All this what god JHVH try to do is fixing the world he started. So, I can not understand official and private standpoint of JW how they not want to participate in "repairing" , "fixing" this old, evil, wicked World that would be destroyed very soon. JW do not want to be involved in various charity programs for all people, in tries to saving animals, saving nature, climate, social improvement and similar. But JHVH doing just exactly same thing. He trying to fix all negative aspects and products of" humans free will" , free will He gave to humans. In His angry mode He destroyed some of His creations, according to Bible (flood, some fire from heaven ...) BUT He, although all this and that, want to repair that what He have. He has not destroyed all He created and start to create new. NO, he making new from old parts of the same World. The same ugly and beautiful, justice and injustice, good and bad Humans and World that exists today. You as JW are the some kind of prove for this reasoning. HE "repairing" you personally. HE "fixing" your imperfect and error WT organization. Why? Why he spend His precious time with fixing what is unfixable? ))) Do not take my comment so serious, it is Sunday and "christmas" time. Just for fun.  Â

DECEMBER 15 2017 - 12:00PM Final report of child sex abuse commission calls for national strategy Melissa Cunningham Local News http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5123881/final-report-of-child-sex-abuse-commission-calls-for-national-strategy/?cs=305

Newcastle Herald senior journalist, Joanne McCarthy. Catholic, Anglican, Uniting and some others with WT-JW in the same pot. This prove how JW are not so different as religion/organization who claim to be only true and only one religion with highest moral standards above all others. Catholic church and JW looking at child molestation as a sin, moral failure. According to recommendation they need to change that view on issue. GB changed many past "truths" and replaced "firmly bible based teachings" with "new teachings" giving same explanation - this new teachings is also "firmly established on Bible" :))). Will they change "two witness rule" in cases of child molestation? Until now they said "firmly" NO.  But future can/might give "new clarification" on this matter :)) And all members will see that new instructions as "proper food in proper time". hehe  "Jehovah's Witnesses accused of failing to adopt abuse inquiry recommendations" Posted Fri 10 Mar 2017,  http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/worldtoday/jehovahs-witnesses-accused-of-failing-to-adopt/8343354  Â

Many of JW members who read the topics in this forum can not accept the fact that the main church body aka Gb violates both laws - divine and human. GB asks of every member to report any fact and person that violates the JW Code in the assembly. But the GB does not want to report and give facts, evidence, documents, statements that would allow a justice, even "imperfect, worldly" justice. hehe

John 1:1    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.* NWT from JWorg Why sending sad   emoticons ? :)) be happy, translators and transcribers and copyist with bible scholars and church fathers (past and present) have problems with wordingÂ

I just watch one video, and moderator pointed on one significant detail. Connected with WT Chart of Significant Dates. Book published in 1966. ("Life Everlasting-in freedom in sons of God") In fact this Chart shows strong WT belief, how past looked like and how Future will look. I just copy/paste (3) THREE LAST DATES from Chart. IT is very interesting their interpretations on two main world "kings" and possibility of WW III. And then 1975 culmination with wording END OF 6000 MAN'S EXISTENCE. (in double talking it can be also understood as End of human existence :)))) What is next DATE?? END OF 7000 years, and JW of those past days (1960s) knew very well what that can mean, in fact. This Last 1000 years of 7th day is in fact PARADISE aka GOD'S KINGDOM, 1000 years ruling over the world. Skipping from autumn of 1975 to autumn 2975 shows that very well. Nothing in connection to "prophecies" that must take place according to WT interpretations. Events (fulfilled bible prophecies) are missing from 1975 to future. We all know how many "bible prophecies" WT has been counted and explained until 1966 when this book was published. But no one was mentioned. BUT WT was still put one future EVENT- the FULFILLMENT OF YEAR AS FINISHED DATE FOR 1OOO REIGN. End of 1000 year Christ kingdom ended in 2975. In those days and i believe similar is until today, one interpretation is same; 7 day of God's rest ending after 7000 years of man's existence. This is prove of WT calculation about 1975. Quote from JWorg said; "And, since the seventh day has been continuing for thousands of years, it may reasonably be concluded that each of the six creative periods, or days, was at least thousands of years in length." https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001061 According to this, not changed view-yet, WT interpretations is/was that 1 creation day was 7000 long. So, by that and other interpretation on Bible it is significant to see that WT IN FACT PROMOTED VIEW HOW Jesus Kingdom would/will come in 1975 because His Kingdom lasting 1000 years and by that Completing 7th day of Bible terminology as WT interpret. Quote from JWORG; However, this statement is not made regarding the seventh day, on which God proceeded to rest, indicating that it continued. (Ge 2:1-3) Also, more than 4,000 years after the seventh day, or God’s rest day, commenced, Paul indicated that it was still in progress. At Hebrews 4:1-11 he referred to the earlier words of David (Ps 95:7, 8, 11) and to Genesis 2:2 and urged: “Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest.” By the apostle’s time, the seventh day had been continuing for thousands of years and had not yet ended. The Thousand Year Reign of Jesus Christ, who is Scripturally identified as “Lord of the sabbath” (Mt 12:8), is evidently part of the great sabbath, God’s rest day. (Re 20:1-6) This would indicate the passing of thousands of years from the commencement of God’s rest day to its end. The week of days set forth at Genesis 1:3 to 2:3, the last of which is a sabbath, seems to parallel the week into which the Israelites divided their time, observing a sabbath on the seventh day thereof, in keeping with the divine will. (Ex 20:8-11) CHART QF SIGNIFICANT DATES FROM MAN'S CREATION TO 7000 A.M. 1966 Threat of World War III grows more ominous as between "king of the north" and the "king of the south." (Dan. 11: 5-7, 40) Expansion of organization of Jehovah's Christian witnesses continues, and international series of "God's Sons of Liberty" District Assemblies are scheduled to begin on June 22, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God to be released Saturday, June 25.1966 1975 End ot 6th 1,000.year day of man's existence (in early autumn) _________________________________________________________________ 2975 End ot 7th 1,000-year day of man's existence (in early autumn)

why this sound so familiar to me, looks as the same problem as in some other religions

Almost 2000 viewers, but no comment??

heheehe, playing with translations we have 2 possibilities Jesus is; 1) God 2) god in any way he is not angel , Michael :))))