Srecko Sostar

Thanks Fisher for mentioned me in your quote. Apologize in advance if i misunderstand you. But definition i was provide is not "innocently" :))) In fact it is the same as your fine explanation from CE book.

"a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true."

incontrovertible: not open to question; not able to be denied or disputed; impossible to doubt because of being obviously true

indisputable: true, and impossible to doubt; beyond doubt, not open to question; fact that is not subject to interpretation

Greetings!

On 12/1/2017 at 18:14, Witness said:

Watchtower’s governing body

This few man who running this Corporative Religion.... No offence to JW member. Two facts are; WTBTS is Company, Corporation, and Jehovah's Witnesses are international group who are associated themselves (again, under management of  WT inc.) to worship God..... to continue ....this few man are full of controversy in publicly addressed talks (and in written quotes).

One said, "We are not hiding peadofiles, we are clean organization." Other said "We have good policy against child perpetrators and protect minors." Other said, "We giving spiritual protection, secular government have to provide physical protection."

One said, "Stick with what we have authorised and you will be safe". Other said, "JW around the world have own Bibles and are able to see if we give wrong, error instruction and will do by own conscience".   

JW people looks to much their JW National TV  without "Critical Thinking", worldly terminology, hehe. That means in other words, biblical terminology - "TEST the spirits!"

On 6/19/2017 at 23:37, PeterR said:

Anna said; it is an opinion ..... 

... by Anna's opinion /Srecko was add/ :))))

"Overlapping generation" is -Made in USA by WT GB-.  After that some idea came, developed inside "bible scholars" of WT, no matter are they part of GB, "The Helpers", some other people or not, GB made final decision what to do with idea, opinion, thought, or however we want to call that.

WT magazine is main tool and mean to promote ideas, opinions, teachings-doctrines and instructions. And also is the main, principal magazine to withdraw, revoke all teachings that need to be changed. So whatever name we want to use on this particular issue, one thing stayed; You as JW member must going to be in line with new "information". 

If you decide to think on some issue differently than it is explained in official publication, than you as member put yourself in position to be at least "marked" by other (elders, JW members) as individual who are walking on edge of "JW spiritual paradise organization".

Yes, "overlapping generation" is part of WT JWorg "unique" teachings and by that is "doctrine", because noun teaching is the same as noun doctrine in religious vocabulary. Please do not forget to use wording "dogmas" in WT theology system. Because some teachings, that has not been changed, yet :))) are, theologically looking, dogmas.     

According introductory words in "Shepherd book", this publication is "congregation property". What would be your answer on question -What is congregation? Who are members of congregation? By normal logic all JW members are congregation and by their membership (legality of membership come through baptism) in congregation are entitled to read this book and  to get to know the content of this book. But this is not how reality looks. Many, almost all "ordinary" members even doesn't know that this book or similar written instructions exist.

Another shocking fact from the 2010 Letter to the elders come to daylight. Instruction to elders given by GB (or from some WT Department that is under direct supervision of GB) shows us once again how this "theocratic" organization treats women's at all, and sisters as members of the congregation. Sisters are compared with unbelievers and working stuff of outsides companies. Shameful!

This publication is congregation property. A
copy is issued to each appointed elder. If an elder
is deleted for reasons other than moving to
another congregation with a favorable recommendation,
he should turn over this handbook
to the Congregation Service Committee. The
secretary should keep the book in the congregationÂ’s
file so that it may be returned to the
brother if he is reappointed as an elder. No
copies are to be made of any part of this publication.
Neither is it to be converted into any
electronic format.

WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF PENNSYLVANIA
All Rights Reserved

Publishers
WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC.
Brooklyn, New York, U.S.A.
2012 Printing

This publication is not for sale. It is provided as part of a worldwide
Bible educational work supported by voluntary donations.

Unless otherwise indicated, Scripture quotations are from the modern-language
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures—With References.
“Shepherd the Flock of God”—1 Peter 5:2
English (ks10-E)
Made in the United States of America

Chapter 1

page 6 quote

2. “Shepherd the Flock of God” has been designed
as a handbook for elders to supply vital information
that will help them care for congregation matters.

page 7 quote

Because of efforts to simplify this publication,
it does not cover every aspect of our work as elders.
At times you may need to consult other publications
and letters to the body of elders for detailed
information. Be alert to future direction and adjustments
so as to stay up-to-date on theocratic direction.

 

5 hours ago, Anna said:

"plan ahead as if

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow.

Take care of your body as if you were going to live forever; and take care of your soul as if you were going to die tomorrow. 

Smile like you’ve never cried, fight like you’ve never lost, love like you’ve never been hurt, and live like you’ll die tomorrow.

According to this text in "Shepherd book", page 84,85 woman in JW congregation are viewed as minor children, not entitled to hear information that are important for her marriage and family life and her life at all. JW elders look at them as a people of the second rank. Even a male underage child or teenager or young male/man, who is baptized, has a higher status than any sister, young or old, single or married, publisher, pioneer or missionary or anointed.

Meeting With Marriage Mates

11. If the accused is a married sister, it is best
to have her believing husband present for the hearing.
He is her head, and his efforts to restore her and
direct her can be very helpful. (1 Cor. 11:3) If unusual
circumstances are involved or the elders feel it would
be best not to invite the husband because of their
concerns for the safety of the wife, the elders should
call the branch office.
12. If the accused is a married brother, his
wife would normally not attend the hearing. However,
if the husband wants his wife to be present, she
may attend a portion of the hearing. The judicial
committee should maintain confidentiality.
13. If the husband committed adultery, he
has an obligation to inform his wife of the facts. The
judicial committee should promptly inquire of the
Christian wife as to what her husband has told her. If
he refuses to inform her of his adultery, the elders
should inform her that because of her husband’s
conduct, it is up to her to decide whether to pursue a
Scriptural divorce or not. Furthermore, they should
inform the innocent mate that her resuming sexual
relations with the guilty mate would negate any
claim to Scriptural freedom. But they should not give
her further details. On the other hand, the elders
may find that while the husband did confess adultery
to his wife, he did not tell her the full extent of his
wrong conduct and left out important information
that the wife should know. The elders should not pro-

84 “Shepherd the Flock of God”—1 Peter 5:2

vide this confidential information to the wife, but
they can suggest that she speak with her husband
again. Even if he does not tell her anything more, this
will alert her to the fact that he is withholding information
from her, and this may help her to determine
whether to forgive or not.

Chapter 6                                                                    85

According to this text in "Shepherd book", page 38,39 elders are allowed to hide their own sins or sins of colleagues, elders.  

19. If it comes to light or an appointed
brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping
offense years in the past:

The body of elders may determine he can continue to
serve if the following is true: The immorality or other
serious wrongdoing occurred more than a few years
ago, and he is genuinely repentant, recognizing that
he should have come forward immediately when he
sinned. (Perhaps he has even confessed to his sin,
seeking help with his guilty conscience.) He has been
serving faithfully for many years, has evidence of
God’s blessing, and has the respect of the congregation.

20. If the sin occurred before he was appointed as
an elder or a ministerial servant, the elders will need
to take into consideration the fact that he should
have mentioned this possible impediment to his being
qualified when elders interviewed him just prior
to announcing his appointment. Moreover, the nature
of the sin may reflect greatly on his qualifications
to serve. For example, the sin may involve past
child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for
many years.—w97 1/1 pp. 26-29; w77 pp. 697-698.

38            “Shepherd the Flock of God”—1 Peter 5:2

21. If the wrongdoing occurred within the past few
years while he was serving as an elder or a ministerial
servant, he is disqualified from serving as such, not
being “free from accusation.” (1 Tim. 3:2, 10; Titus 1:
6, 7) Depending on the circumstances, the situation
may also need to be handled by a judicial committee.
—See 5:43-44.

Chapter 3                                                                     39

Hi. If i may suggest this.

1919 -  FDS was appointed "over all Master's belongings"

2013 -  FDS was not appointed in 1919 but will be in a future

in late 1920 ,Year? - The wicked and sluggish slave refers to anointed ones in the 1914 era who refused to share in the preaching work

2013 -  the “evil slaves” as a class, instead applying it as a hypothetical danger to the composite Faithful Slave, which they say has never become a reality

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The Bible does not permit divorce just for any reason

When you say Bible, what part of Bible support this reason as only one ? and what part of Bible support divorce for more other reasons and not only adultery  

Because JHVH principles are not in Jesus words only but in words by other also. I am sure that what Jesus said have more power than those of Peter, Paul or Moses. But if we want be strict, than all bible words are of the same power because God is source (no matter when Paul said , "I think", "In my judgement" and then give some counsel, advice, instruction). What would happen, If GB or any of us, want to use some "principles" in some situation from OT and some "principles" in some situation from NT?

Can you imagine or maybe you know for such examples dear JW Insider? 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

they did not sing, or have Bibles, to pretend that they were not a religion.

- No Bible readings, No singing songs, No giving prayer to JHVH -

According to 1 century Bible reports, this sort of private and public manifestations are "prove" that person is Christian, Gods servant. If whole congregations, generations of people, for decades were not doing so, what they has been? Officially and in reality- "Cultural group, society, association,volunteers". Religious? or Secular? :)) 

But that is of no importance after so many years, for me or some of you. What is important is Hypocrisy from "main church body" aka GB aka FDS aka Board of Directors aka elders aka Kings and Priests or what ever name they have and gives to themselves or we gives to them, in the past or today.

  be happy, don't worry, in future paradise all will be happy and no one will asking questions as we doing today. people will eat plenty of fruits and vegetables, all will be emotionally and mentally balanced and all will be perfect as  today because JW and GB have The Highest Moral Standards - from always, or as my dear Anna said - "we have ALWAYS had the higher moral ground, right since our start. "

hehe

   

2 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

However, I can't see those affected as being a high number in view of both the consequences, and the short time period of error. Not that that reduces the effects for any individuals caught in the confusion of course, albeit for a few months.

Jesus sadly warned at Matt.18:7: "Of course, it is inevitable that stumbling blocks will come, but woe to the man through whom the stumbling block comes!". 

one ruined life is too many

15 hours ago, Anna said:

we have ALWAYS had the higher moral ground, right since our start.

No Anna, JW are not unique in that. Higher moral in comparison to whom? Many religious group, small and big have the same attitude on moral as JW, and atheist too.

15 hours ago, Anna said:

.depends on the support of a political movement.'

In Finland, government said that they not approve two parallel Judicial system. One Judicial system is Secular government. And other to whom Minister of Justice refer on  is JW congregational Judicial system.

Which one is better now after we have various opinion on this (made in people comments here in forum)? JW or Secular?

You said, it depends on the support of political movement, some other said worldly Courts are corrupted, WT said to secular authority, "give as mandatory, obligation by law to make us easier". And similar. BUT after all this you say, "WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD the higher moral ground"???!!! HOW ALWAYS, when changing policy (child or some other inside WT) proves that so called "Higher moral ground" are depend on WT Company policy, on Secular law, on Doctors and Psychologist, Pedagogy and Science, Science and so.

Personal moral and Corporative moral is not the same, sometimes is similar. But both are corruptible.  

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

but remember that there was no Governing Body while this book was written and approved. Only one person among the corporate officers (a kind of proto-GB)

technically, this is correct how GB wasn't exist in years we talking about. They was kind of Board of directors who handle things and making decisions. Idea of GB as concept of "church body" on all "spiritual" things as the apostle body in 1 century (type and anti-type model) came later. In  period around 1970th, correct me if wrong, they making adjustments because of administrative questions connected with models of Governing - Ruling the Corporation. And more new changes happened in 2000, i think. for the same reasons - Governing the Company, not spiritual need. Reason of Spiritual need is is to making fog on question/answer - WHO RULING/GOVERNING millions of people and millions of $ and real estate property.

Connect this, please, with new doctrine about appointment that was not happen in 1914 but will be in future. According to this new doctrine they are not appointed to have power over "all Masters belongings,property", but only to share foods to "co-servants, brothers/sisters; members, followers,". If that is so, have to ask this, - Who authorized them, as former ruler over all Masters property, from 1879-2013 to give in some other people hands to governing over Masters belongings that, in fact stayed, inside the same Company structure aka WT?? IF FDS aka GB is not entitled to "governing over all belongings" how that can any other structure of human body, organization, corporation, charity...??????? This is just for start to mediate on problem/question that arise after introducing new doctrine.   

So, they in few past years, as i can recall, put this idea that GB in fact existed from 1 century Jerusalem congregation as some kind of prototype of Headquarter aka centralized body for whole World. But congregation in Antioch, for example, was not been under power of Jerusalem congregation. And Jerusalem was not any kind of Headquarter for rest of congregations in Judea or anywhere else. "Body of elders" in Antioch gave permission to Paul about his ministry, not Jerusalem apostles. :)) and Antioch "body of alders" did not ask any suggestion, counsel, permission from Jerusalem. 

So, we came to question did Centralized company inc. body is/was Jesus intention in gathering the sheep for His flock? 

9 minutes ago, Anna said:

t would seem that way, because as you say, they sued one.This was because its publisher was posting things he had no copyrights to.

It is interesting. They sued those apostates for using "spiritual food" without copyrights permission.

How about JHVH copyrights ownership on truth, love, justice, thoughts, feelings, words ....water, food, air...

Again, WT is Company and because this reason they sued people for using their printed and electronic material. But main reason for WT suing them is revealed facts that expose WT "wrongs" about Biblical subjects and every day  living. In fact disputable matters are in theological sphere in first place. And then comes other items in connection on corporative and structural functioning in hierarchy  of WT. Regarding using of this secular world, money, policy, politic ...  

9 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

They have an awareness of what critics are saying.

And then integrate such material in WT study :))))) as proper food in proper time :)))))))

9 minutes ago, Anna said:

Apostates send letters to Bethel, regularly

I send my letter of dissociation to Zagreb Branch and they never published it. :))))

Elders said to bro and sis not to read if they receive something from me. And to destroy it :))))))))))

4 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

But isn't revision a good thing when it leads to clear understanding? We're constantly learning more about the Bible as we dig into it and research it.

Inside WT revision often means new period of dogmatism :)))

18 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

This hasn't been the attitude in the org for a LONG time.

Long time for Whom? Short time for Whom?

For human soul of sister or brother which marital partner are "animal"?

19 hours ago, Anna said:

but I have a feeling this may have been written or approved by Raymond Franz.

:))) Raymond is guilty as JW and as ex-JW. hahaha 

If it is approved it was done by whole GB body, no matter of number of votes that was pro et contra :))))

18 minutes ago, Anna said:

Actually, just a little reminder, problems with any sexual abuse, including child sexual abuse, in the whole wide world started with Satan.

(satan,  little s) satan is not  personal name and it is not  deserve big S. He is the biggest enemy of God and human. Big S honoring him, no matter of grammar rules :)))))))) (You know, Jesus is not God but god :))))))))))))))) 

But main treason for my comm on this your quote is something else.  "Started with satan"?. WT not started in those time when satan started. Why you need to made this comparison?     

20 minutes ago, Anna said:

Perhaps it would be a good idea for those who criticize the WT for the way they handled Child abuse in the past, to educate  themselves on how the rest of the world handled child abuse in the past.

Again, God's lessons and principles are older than 19/20 and 21 century of WT history. And by "choosing" WT to be His earthly agent, it is quite confusing and weird that God with such high moral standards and tools for helping people, did not make better progress in his own organization regarding this issue, but He waited for secular authority to teach His people/nation here on Earth. And He left to "social and scientific evolution/revolution of satans world to be progressive force that helping WT aga Gods organization to make "positive changes" in congregational structure regard policy and spiritual awareness of this problem  :)))    

On 8/28/2017 at 13:49, Albert Michelson said:

JW's baptize young children because

..(quote from bro Lett :))))), "the sooner you can get baptized the sooner you will receive greater protection  and blessings from JHVH...."

....really strong reasons. Then Catholic are not wrong at all when want to baptized newborn children. Protection and blessings comes earlier than in JWorg :))))))

VIDEO - Richard Ashe, WT Supervisor. Yeah i heard this before, and his lawyer 1 Amendment cry for ::)  

And who told to Stephen Lett about "apostate" informations on paedophile cases that had become "driven lies" . Does he watching apostate YT channels, or somebody else doing that dirty job for him/them? hehe

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

He was talking about the Watchtower protecting pedophiles was "apostate lies!!".

Just little reminder. According to ARC reports, problems with pedophilia within WT in Australia started 50 years back. Similarly, it may be with Great Britain and US. Western countries and western democracies. :))) (In Russia WT have no problem with paedophilia, yet.) And WT as "good steward or FDS" records all cases and have all files about this issue. Do we not expect exactly this from "good steward"? That he care about "household", and have all files and documents about everything, from your 15 minutes field service to ....  

1. Now, when ARC asked Australian WT Branch to produce documents/files about all cases, it seems that they obey secular government and they done this.

2. Now, when California Court ordered US WT Headquarter to produce documents/files about peadophilia and all involved in this scandal, WT refused to do it, and they are stubborn in this unlawful, injustice and bad decision until today.

3. Now, WHO protecting pedophiles inside WT, inside JWrg and inside all sister corporation entities that is under WT Headquarter and under Board of Directors and under Shareholders Assembly?  

We have two answers on that. But only one is true. Guess which is true :)))

At least Australian WT has been more cooperative than their brothers in USA WT. Does this smells on rebellion, disunity, different interpretation on Bible text, more fear of "worldly people"....?   

13 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

They revised the Bible translation to make it crystal clear

this is interesting. revised Bible text ? it can be, and it is very tricky when someone change text to adapt it to understanding in particular moment of time. 

WT made few revising on Bible text from first printing. How many problems will come in a future if some problem of past error on translation we can see now, today. And how many more problematic changes and interpretations that has been done according to bad translation are already here but we are not see it yet, maybe some other people saw before us :))  

15 hours ago, Anna said:

Unfortunately it originates in the WT magazine January 1 1972 - This evidently is one of the gaffes.

13 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Does it really matter? It is garbage wherever it comes from, grandiose claims or not.