2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am 71 years old, above average intelligence,

:)) i can see that.

I am 56 and also above average. If we should believe to IQ tests cca 120 :)))  

40 minutes ago, Anna said:

enlightened

in what sense "enlightened"? only in matters of theology, doctrinal stuff?

Or writer of this words include also "body and blood" and by that improper behaviour connected to sins of flesh?  

On what thing you point Anna? 

35 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Oh, I thought you would provide some examples from scripture.

We have plenty examples of sinful people in Bible, but as i can recall there is no signs of  classification as WT using today. If we can talking about bigger and smaller sins in OT then that would be possible as we compare sinful act and size of penalties, punishment.

But is it wise to have copy/paste method from OT for today?? If some would tell, but we have "principles" in OT, that is very manipulative. After all, did not Jesus made NEW things, new covenant, new law, new way how to practicing principles?? Didn't He teached things that are more powerful, substantially different, things that are connected with faith and love, mercy, equality, fraternity? Why to go back to deeds according to Law, Rules and Paragraphs -  when we want to rich, to get to holy spirit, more than to written or unwritten rules, traditions, laws, and similar what Clergy or priesthood try to bring again in. 

1 hour ago, Gnosis Pithos said:

What’s your point?

39 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Can you give any examples of this? and what do you define as an extraordinary sinner?

hehehehe, according to WT magazines the most dangerous sin is apostasy  and by that the most dangerous sinner is apostate. Other kind of sin and sinner are also in gradations, so WT have serious sin, gross sin and some that is considered as not so serious. If you are regular and attentive reader of WT publications you have to be familiar with this and my comments would be not so strange to you   

38 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

but the 15% Core Truths

Hi James. But you know how the illustration from WT magazine said - "Would you drink a water from a glass where most of  water is clear, healthy water but only one drop of poisson??

And you made another ratio - 15% clear healthy water and 85% of questionable substance   

20 hours ago, Anna said:

and "abandoning" his former belief.

:)) but that is exactly what JW members doing for decades in the same organization. Not need to left JW and go in different church.  

On 11/10/2017 at 16:33, Anna said:

But I was only very young...

I was 15 at 1975.  And hear on my ears that brothers (elders) making calculations, while sitting on bar table with glass of drink, on this, in days from 1975 -1977, how many years Adam has been alone before Eve. Because this number of years can explain why nothing happened in 1975. :)))))))) 

15 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Proverbs 11:9 states:"By his mouth the apostate brings his neighbor to ruin"

only NWT say "apostate"

other translations have not such word!! they use; hypocrite, godless, feigner

be careful about NWT translators  this is just one example of change

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

My question is: to go where?

²⁸ Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. ²⁹ Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. ³⁰ For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

On 5/12/2017 at 15:59, bruceq said:

So the point is: Are Jehovah's Witnesses the true religion or not?

A simple yes or no, a book is not necessary to answer the question. 

If i would look on this from position of Mosaic Law, which was lasting, be in power much longer than WT and their "doctrines law", i would say; No, JW is not "only true religion" on Earth. From, as they said, 1513 BCE to 33 CE God's Law was "perfect and everlasting and unchangeable" - of course if we neglect, ignore the fact that Rulers and Priests in all that period of Israel also have some Interpretations on Law and clarifications on how should be, have to be implied this or that from the Law. hahahaha

Today GB also have the same methods, using  INTERPRETATIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS , and that is periodical practice when some theory, doctrine, teaching, instruction or perform falls in problem. Then phrases as "new light", "clarification", "brightness" come on surface and cover all false and wrongs from GB.    

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3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

ordinairy sinner?? what's that?

ORDINARY =routine, regular, average, plain, common, usual, daily :))))))

18 minutes ago, Anna said:

Actually, anyone can receive holy spirit

i agree, but here i made observation on/about specific position that FDS have or position that they think they have

21 minutes ago, Anna said:

even apostates

:))))) so apostates are in no way different than any other ordinary sinner, hahaha

22 minutes ago, Anna said:

repentant "enough"

yeah, that is field for manipulation from the all involved, from both sides of table.

16 hours ago, Anna said:

We humans can only judge what we see or hear about. Jehovah judges the heart.

Gnosis Pithos 9 hours ago  

 

Dear Gnosis is the common Greek noun for knowledge (??????, gnôsis, f.).^[1] The term is used in various Hellenistic religions and philosophies.^[2][3] It is best known from Gnosticism, where it signifies a knowledge or insight into man's real nature as Divine, leading to the deliverance of the Divine spark within man from the constraints of earthly existence.

What confusing you in this simple, clear and truthful Anna's quote??? !!! 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

We might have some ideas,

WT GB have this official ideas, and as i have read from comments above from few of you, you as JW members have different visions about the same issue. Some of you are cautious and careful, some of you are judgmental and some of you thinking how this is slipy area and depends on personal view and own retrospective of his actions. 

How with idea that only persons who are appointed by holy spirit aka FDS or GB can made such sin, because they received, as some interpretations of Bible verses said, they received holy spirit and by that are in position that is seriously different then of other "ordinary, earthly class christians"??

From official JWorg standpoint expressed in down quotations, i see that ALL possible human sins can be SIN AGAINST HOLY SPIRIT. So, you have not much space to escape punishment. You need to be in state of repentance all the time.  But according  to instructions from elders "Shepherd book" if elders determine that you are not repented enough, according to their visions, you have very good chance to stay in sin that is in fact sin against holy spirit. 

"What sins are not forgiven? To answer this question, let us consider some Biblical examples. This should prove comforting to us if we are repentant but are still sorely distressed over our serious errors. We will see that it is not so much a matter of what kind of sin a person has committed; rather, it is the motive, the heart condition, and the degree of willfulness involved that determines whether a sin is forgivable or not."

⁷ What if we have sinned but are unable to pray because our sin has made us spiritually sick? In this regard, the disciple James wrote: “Let [such a person] call the older men of the congregation to him, and let them pray over him, greasing him with oil in the name of Jehovah. And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.”—James 5:14, 15.

¹⁹ What might contribute to the feeling that we have sinned against the holy spirit? Overconscientiousness or a weak physical condition may be factors. In such a case, prayer and added rest may be helpful. ....I HAVE been obsessed with the thought that I have sinned against the holy spirit.” So wrote a woman in Germany, although she was serving God. 

²⁰ Any who fear that they have sinned against the holy spirit might ask themselves: ‘Have I blasphemed against the holy spirit? Did I genuinely repent of my sin? Do I have faith in God’s forgiveness? Am I an apostate who has rejected spiritual light?’ Very likely, such individuals will realize that they have not blasphemed against God’s holy spirit, nor have they become apostates. They are repentant, and they have abiding faith in Jehovah’s forgiveness. If so, they have not sinned against Jehovah’s holy spirit.

What sins are not forgiven? -

1)First-century Jewish religious leaders who maliciously opposed Jesus Christ were sinning against the holy spirit. 

2)Consider also the case of Judas Iscariot.

What sins are forgiven? -

1) David and Bath-sheba. God forgave

2)The extent of Jehovah’s forgiveness is also illustrated in the case of King Manasseh of Judah.

3)the apostle Peter sinned grievously by denying Jesus.

quotes from JWorg library

17 minutes ago, Anna said:

Are you asking what does sinning against the holy spirit look like?

of course - is that lying , killing, or not believing in God, not put faith in Jesus or else ....?  

22 minutes ago, Anna said:

There is no forgiveness of that type of sin

how look like that type? 

22 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Hebrews 12:5-11

and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

"God deals with you as with sons..." 

not as with  bread for garbage, trash can.

 

 

22 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Ecclesiastes 4:9-10

Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. For if either of them falls, the one will lift up his companion. But woe to the one who falls when there is not another to lift him up.

again - one person failed (your sinful dfd brother) and others JW members run from them as he is "mentally diseased" apostate. But ok if you scare of apostates, do not talk with him.  What about other sorts of sin? They are also dangerous?

So where is "companion" who will lift up him? Only elders, once a year????? Is elder his "companion"?? or it is someone else??  "But woe.."

22 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Romans 13:4

for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

WT said this words applied to policeman, inspectors, soldiers, officers .... of secular government ---not elders and judicial committee

22 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

But, that's what makes freedom of speech

:))) hehe, not only freedom of speech. That makes ground for my own "old light" and "new light".  (A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New Light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it…" Zion's Watch Tower 1881 Feb pp.3,188.)

Or as WT magazines proves "Lights get brighter" ---- not only for WT but for me also :))))))))))

18 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Proverbs 17:17

A friend loves at all times, And a brother is born for adversity.

I will put this verse to some topic. 

Loyalty and Truth. Two moral powers that can exist on same level. 

Are you loyally love your failed "friend" at all times". In bad times, not only in good times?

Can your brotherhood with him, and his with your, be born in "adversity"?

If you start to shun, ignore, reject him because he is "sinner", how you will fulfilled Proverbs? 

Or Jesus words - LOVE YOUR ENEMY?  “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’  But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,..."

Is your failed friend your enemy?? Is your dfd brother from cong. your enemy??

If it is LOVE HIM.

If he is not LOVE  HIM. 

28 minutes ago, Anna said:

We humans can only judge what we see or hear about. Jehovah judges the heart.

Thanks, this is sure one of  best answer, if not the only one, the best comment that someone made, not only to this topic, but also for few similar  topics. And for wisdom person who read it give, bring to be more wise. Who hear let's hear, who read let's read -and take a lesson. :))

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Did you ever hear a person say: "I am gay or I am a pedophile but I have good self-control and am not practicing anything bad so I am okay to invite to lunch with your family including your.....minor kids?

No, i am not. But i heard that some elders in particular congregation came to knowledge about one bro who have homosexual  inclinations. And they solve that issue by giving him this kind of solution. Be gay, but not have sex with other male.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

JW scientists are busy at this very moment ....

Thanks for funny side :)) But i can be sure about your cognitive abilities that you see the point with this verses. All human are sinners, by accident or by half intention or by full intention to doing bad. And according to sinful state of mind and heart, no matter is that sinning last 2-5 seconds, 15 minutes or on daily basis, once a year, or in some other frequency. if Jesus mean literally what he said, then all would have to face judicial committee :)))))