Srecko Sostar

3 hours ago, Anna said:

it's only weeding out those who are disappointed over selfish things,

No Anna, i disagree with this final conclusion you had made on people. 

3 hours ago, Anna said:

those who endure to the end will be saved.

:))) that is true, hehe

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

stumbled someone

I know how some of you, or almost all, as JW member had doubts and conscience questions about talking with someone like me. But according to some WT publications texts of GB given advice or can be said instructions, Forum like this and other kind of similar "gatherings" of JW members (arguing, discussions, expressing thoughts, comments and similar, that are not in line with official, temporary teachings) are in fact some kind of "rebellion", and going against "Mother organization" .

JW members had not WT approval, permission to talk in this manner even if they had some "questions". According to GB instructions, if any of you have some "serious questions about your faith and WT doctrines" you need to go to elders, because they are entitled to hear and to help you in any "spiritual doubts or question". By WT you are all in break of the rule and by that show "disrespect" for FDS aka GB and by their logic, this is directly disobeying JHVH.

I can not help you any more. You have find solutions in your conscience, whatever, however your conscience looks like, in whatever condition it is.   No hard feeling.              

17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I was about to explode over this but then

:))))) i am not worthy of your nerves ....

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

LOVE is the sign of a true disciple - anointed or not.   I chatted with a smart but sweet anointed sister in South Africa and she said to me....... Arauna, when in doubt -- show love (and I do show self-sacrificing love) when in doubt - because this always brings the best results!

Hi! Your post is interesting. And you highlight few good thoughts, generally. When you connecting this two;  "LOVE is the sign of a true disciple" and "Arauna, when in doubt -- show love" that remind me of something -

We have some bible records, examples, lessons from Jesus or before him and after him. Next we have inside state of mind and heart, conscious and something you called "social" maturity. And third thing we have "social" influence from WT Society and society inside self  as group that existing on various level inside JWorg; family, friends, congregation, brotherhood in small and wide space. As fourth thing i would mentioned two parallel power that are in JW member. That is Natural, God given conscience at one side and "bible trained" conscience builded by WT JWorg social influence as kind of group consensus based on Bible and WT Charter and other written and unwritten rules, code, traditions.  

In some situations these two kind of senses (conscience) on what is wrong and right are in conflict. I noticed that in, for example, situations when JW meet with ex members, accidentally meet on the street or similar. JW member suffocate, represses this Natural conscience (to show love or let me to used wording in "simplified edition" :)))) to show just polite behaviour, bon-ton, "social" maturity) and not want to say even Hello to ex JW. Some JW are fanatically hold on this GB instructions, some are more or less liberate and make greetings. So, whatever conclusion or decisions you personally have or made if found yourself in such situations, for me it is interesting that South Africa sister counsel -

"When in doubt--show love"    

  

49 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I received the name from my aunt who died young 

Sorry to hear about    

18 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

if what you think of as "many" is the same as what I think of as "many." 

for this panel conversation it is of not much important, i think. If compare numbers that in cong with 70-80 people you have 5-10 with "doubts" on doctrine or else inside JWorg it is "many", or it is not?  It would be interesting to make some analysis and questionnaire to see how JWorg members "breathe". But we would never know that because of F.O.G. complex (fear, obligation, guilt) and true state of mind and heart will stay "XYZ coordinate without numbers". Blanc, empty area for public even inside JWorg and for "shepherds of human soul" too. But it is better for elders to not know true conditions of members because, i think, they are not fit, suitable, equipped for catch with such answers and  circumstance inside people.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

One of my concerns was with the idea that so many sisters

yeah

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

aware of what sisters think,

recently i had opportunity to meet some ex brothers and sisters, who know me for long time. They read my Letter of dissociation and this is second or third time we meet after my living JW. We talked for a hour. Many bro or sis in JW congregations are very disappointed and are in dissident mode who knows how long time already, but only few in private circles of trust know that.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

and another sister (now ex-sister, unfortunately) who was very well respected by Brother Lloyd Barry and both Brothers Karl and Don Adams and put together a huge portion of the Proclaimers book.

You thought about Barbara Anderson? I like her blog very much.     http://watchtowerdocuments.org/

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I am NOT feminist! ......  I think emotional smartness is better.

True feminist quote  

WT (in publications) take a stand that man is person of mind but woman is person of emotions. But perhaps bro or sis who wrote article with such thoughts just reading too much worldly books and find such reason as in this quote; Men are governed by lines of intellect - women: by curves of emotion. - James Joyce

Analogy: In 1971, whilst organ transplants were banned, the Watchtower published an article about the heart.  In the article, quoted below, they believed that the heart was were all a person's emotions came from. This was not in a figurative way but very literally. In the text the Watchtower talks about how heart transplant patients have become psychotic, and even possibly suggesting that they acquired the heart’s previous owners personalities. Watchtower 1971 March 1 pp.133-9 How Is Your Heart? - "And a third man expressed great fear of feminization upon receiving a woman's heart, though he was somewhat mollified when he learned that women live longer than men." 

I was about 15 of age and very well remembered a convention in Graz, Austria where all that was teached with big pictures as presentation while speaker have explanations on the issue. :))) (international convention) 

And as some of you already know, such "uninspired nonsense" was discarded in next decade. Watchtower 1986 June 1 p.15 Determined to Serve Jehovah With a Complete Heart - "Finally the heart became known for what it is, a pump to circulate the blood throughout the body."

 

Araunah 

agile; also called Ornan 1 Chronicles 21:15 , a Jebusite who dwelt in Jerusalem before it was taken by the Israelites. The destroying angel, sent to punish David for his vanity in taking a census of the people, was stayed in his work of destruction near a threshing-floor belonging to Araunah which was situated on Mount Moriah. Araunah offered it to David as a free gift, together with the oxen and the threshing instruments; but the king insisted on purchasing it at its full price ( 2 Samuel 24:24 ; 1 Chronicles 21:24 1 Chronicles 21:25 ), for, according to the law of sacrifices, he could not offer to God what cost him nothing. On the same place Solomon afterwards erected the temple ( 2 Samuel 24:16 ; 2 Chr. 3:1 

As Arauna you are rather serious-minded, responsible, and stable. 

You have the gift of tact and diplomacy, and possess a charming, easy-going nature which endears you to others.

You have a serious desire to understand the heart and mind of everyone, and could be very effective in a career or in volunteer work where you are handling people and serving in a humanitarian way.

This name also gives you a love of home and family, and as a parent you would likely be fair and understanding.

You remember the thoughtful little expressions of affection and appreciation that mean so much to others, and you have the ability to create a warm and loving environment.

However, you tend to put things off and avoid facing issues because of a lack of confidence and uncertainty.

You often need encouragement from someone before you can come to a decision.

According to material represented here and all other news about religion worldwide, JW members with WT JWorg as their "mother" are for decades wrongly interprets "persecution" on JW as fulfillment of  Bible prophecies. It is quite "normal" that one group stand in opposition to another, even in so extremly way as history and present time showed us. All religions are involve in "persecutions" other people who  belongs to  different beliefs system.  

7 hours ago, Witness said:

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”  Gal 3:26-29

Perhaps because this verse sisters can watch on money donate box on convention place and giving publications as sister ministerial servants in KH :))))))))))  

And as G. Jackson told before ARC,  "GB will consider that sisters be involved in investigation process about child molestation. But never be part of judicial committee."   

Hahaha, never say never! Deborah was Judge and Prophet for Israel, and ALL SONS of Israel come to her to hear verdict, judge decision she made, to  OBEY what SHE has said. All those events took place in very very patriarchal (macho) time of human history and history of Israel nation. After Christ those things (male-female distinction) must been changed in Christian congregation, but no, women are  lesser class in doctrinal view of GB or WT JWorg organized religion pyramid hierarchy. :)))))

If people would go to first verses of Genesis it is possible to see how Adam and Eve are equal before God. Only after eating apple Curse was told (God pronounced a curse) about  male tyranny over women. And Jew OT and NT male congregants obey that curse gladly. hahaaha. This curse was not God's wish for how should to be, to look, male/female relations.  GB "bible scholars" interprets Bible verses in wrong way. 

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He didn't weep bitterly after each one and then do it again. He wept when the entire course hit him

Hehe Tom, So his conscience and ability thinking were in some kind of blockade. Blockade of emotions, blockade of conscience, blockade of cognitive functions. You want to suggest that Peter was so unconscious of the situation and his actions throughout the night. That he was not been able to understand and feel his own wrong act in first place?? Delayed reaction is possible but conscience is very fast. This event about Jesus was important to Peter and the apostles. The adrenaline was strong. He was quite aware of his betrayal. Make some private tests on yourself and you will see.         

18 hours ago, Arauna said:

This was before Jesus died. 

:)) sin is sin and it has to be punished by OT Law. If i cut your hand, and no matter about am i repent or no, law said i have to give my hand for your hand.  After Jesus died, NT give no command what to do if i cut your hand. But NT said that secular governments will regulate that issue and give answer about it. NT said "only this" - forgive your brother. How many times - seven, seventy seven and more. But if make you happy, please continue on insist on explanation about "repentance and deliberate or undeliberate sin". Comparing to Jesus advice about sin and forgiving -your theory is weak.

Well, to what/which legal solution belonged Peters sin? To OT or NT?   

 

18 hours ago, Arauna said:

Peter had not received the Holy Spirit yet.

What is this? People who have holy spirit are not sinful and can not make sin? :))))

 

18 hours ago, Arauna said:

It was a mistake (3 times) from human weakness - not a deliberate sin.

But you explained in your previous posts that people whose repent is genius and sincere would never repeat a sin for which they had already expressed repentance. Because if they sin again, as you said, they will thus reject Jesus sacrifice. So again, what you would done with Peter?? He made sin, than regret and repent. Next hour he made same sin again and again showed regret and repentance. Then after one hour he again made same sin and again regret and show repentance for the same sin. 

You defend Peter and have excuses for him, but with your interpretations on Bible and subject, you support opposite stand. Are Peter your protege, your favorite bible character and you show him more mercy and compassion then to someone else in history or in present life?? :))))))) because you said:" It was a mistake (3 times) from human weakness - not a deliberate sin."

Sin vs. mistake :)))))))))) very good words playing. For those who not reading your text carefully you maybe would succeed  in deceive.    

18 hours ago, Arauna said:

These scriptures indicate that deliberate sin is not acceptable after acceptance of the ransom sacrifice.

You again want to be Judge of people's hearts and minds and told me that you (or your JW elders) have ability to recognize, 100 percent, when some person acting deliberately in some sin. You want to assure me that you and JW elders can indicate what repentance is sincere and what is not. It is interesting to talk with you but if you continue this way i do not know how would i be able to handle with such "divinity" doctrines  

"Kingdom Halls and Bethel Around the World ? – Beautiful! Thank you Jehovah They Beautify Your Name! ???"

They Beautify Your Name?? How you even think that man made buildings beautify JHVH name? Are you out of your mind? Blasphemy  Some of those KH was sold to false religions (in recent years problems about money in WT) after has been devoted to JHVH at the opening ceremony. And now "false teachers" from Babylon the great have service in there. Or some business firm working in there. Or some other "worldly" people operate in there. Who can assure you that this KH and Bethels would not be sold in next corporate reorganization process of WT, according to news on Annual Meeting? How would this buildings BEAUTIFY His name then?? 

On 10/14/2017 at 20:46, Bible Speaks said:

Literary Servants in Denmark 

At last, sisters can serve as ministerial servants :)) ... finally. Future will bring more changes :)) Elderese coming, heehe

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Can a person who claims they have already accepted the ransom sacrifice keep doing wicked sins and keep being forgiven? Can you provide yes or no, please?

The apostle Peter denied Christ three times. 

He repeated same sin, gross sin, three times in the same day... or night, whatever.

Would you forgive him according to your doctrinal explanation of Bible verses you provide in your posts?   

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ’s death;"

Clear and simple.

"This sin is not covered."

What sin?

"Deliberately rejecting the Savior."

How and Why deliberately?

"After knowing the truth of forgiveness."

Wake up my "not friend"!  

 error of double post

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Yes - the unrighteous are those who never had chance to learn about Jesus in proper way

What are you talking about. Jesus was in 1 century. If you count by this than people who lived before Jesus sacrifice are not among "unrighteous" because as you claim "had not chance to learn about Jesus". How can they learn about Jesus at all,  when he was not been born yet??? 

18 minutes ago, Arauna said:

We all sin every day (we talk unkind or we do not show love when we should or we hurt someone's feelings) but we do not do the things which god says is serious sin like adultery or fornication, and then just ask forgiveness and it is forgiven.... 

One who do not love (or show love, as you quote) are breaking Gods command and by that have already made a sin (big, great sin). 

23 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom.

So according to this all those people in the past who has done such things will never be resurrected?? But Bible said that God will resurrect "righteous and unrighteous"  ?!

 

27 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You cannot bring yourself to repent again if you have nailed the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to mocking and to public shame.  Hebr 10: ^26 If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ’s death; there is no way to get rid of it

  ?????????? You are confused. It is about REJECTING JESUS AS SAVIOR. "If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ’s death;"

^ How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 

 

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Bible says you must NOT sin

and you obey that every single day? never have been sinned? :)) 

"If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

11 hours ago, Anna said:

My good friend talked to a homeless

nice

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

God becomes the loser that way

If it would be permitted to me say this way - God already become "loser" at the moment when spiritual creations (angels) and earthly creations (humans) rejected Him.  

Analogy: WT said how JW members not need to try to "fix" this World, because it is predestined to destruction in Armagedon. But at the same time, they said how JHVH done everything to fix that same World by his mercy, left Adam and Eve to live and have children, giving His son to die for sinners of this World. Waiting to JWorg preaching ministry and after that he will finally make solution :))   

And you, Anna and Arauna have problem with "sinners" inside JWorg and those who are outside. By the way you judged other God will judge you. So please continue with your perception about self-righteous and minimized your own "sins" whatever they are, "big or small". Big or small according JWorg teaching, because you adopted such understanding of sin and repentance.

Instead of being grateful that Jesus' sacrifice covers every one of yours, our sins - single one or repeated one - you try to put own righteous and judgement above Jesus sacrifice. How can you be so unreasonable?  Cutting the branch you're sitting on!  Or you are not aware of your own repeated sins?     

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

do you think they have repented if they repeat the behavior? 

If somebody today made a "sin" and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin.

If tomorrow he made new"sin" of same kind or another kind and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin.

Answer Yes or No have to  come from Above not from me  :)))))))))) please read Bible more frequently and mediate, it will be helpful... maybe. :))))))))   

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I want a yes or no answer please.  

you are very polite person when you tell, "please". I am giving you  + for that

But you also said, "I want a yes or no answer". I am giving you - for that  

On 10/23/2017 at 20:04, Anna said:

but desires all to attain to repentance

Of course He desires this. But if you go to "for elders eye only - Shepherd book" you will see how term, concept "repentance" have many human explanations, rules, elements about how to "recognize" is it  particular repentance real repentance, from bro or sis who are confronted with elders and/or judicial committee. Here i can comment on your next thought when you wrote...

On 10/23/2017 at 20:04, Anna said:

Who sets that standard? God does of course and he lets people know what these standards are through the pages of the Bible.

Here we have again, that people in own understanding of Gods standard made their interpretation/s on what is "standards" in case of "repentance" and made rules, list on this - what look like real, genuine, sincere repentance. Here we have; 1) man made models of how must repentance look like, and   2) you have few humans who make decision/s for you on their personal, subjective interpretations about how you, as sinner in front them, looks like, do you show "enough"  repentance that is "visible" to them, elders. :))))