Srecko Sostar

"Could Someone Be Disfellowshipped For Not Believing In...?"

My answer on this will be in indirect way. And that would give you new perspective on WT mentality. Elders are nothing else but product of Corporation. And they, in general, acting in that manner. 

This topic, the question is certainly interesting. I will tell you personally experience with two elders. After they told me how they not believes in anything that WT teaches,  I have asked both of them, the same questions. And I got the same answers. 

My first question was: If they does not believe everything from the  WT publications, how is possible that they, from the podium, teaching others what they personally does not believe?Second question was: Do you have a peaceful conscience, because you are telling others how they need to believe  that what you, in fact, not believes?

They answered me; " I say that's so in the literature (that is stated in magazine, study article) and I'm not talking about my personal beliefs."

My final question was;  Why don't you act like JW kids at school, on biology class, when it comes to evolution theory and the emergence of life. JW children say, give answer in class to all students and professors ; "School book say that human came in life by evolution. But i don't believe in that. I believe how god created humans."  Why you not doing the same as that brave JW children? To say from podium, or while sitting in auditorium giving comment; "WT  book, magazine, publication say this/that.. but i don't believe in such teaching, i believe ...?" 

After that they stayed silence. 

On 6/21/2017 at 15:19, TrueTomHarley said:

This is absolutely incorrect

"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.... all evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years... as a young person you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.

If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone"!

Awake! issue of May 22, 1969 on page 15, published by WT

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the mantra:

hehe, all around us we can hear various "the mantra", in JW org also :)))))))))

"education" is not only get informations, knowledge, acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition, the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear  and certain mental apprehension.

when someone is educated that also including and human, moral values. 

Better world will not come without "educated" people.You can be very honest and truthful, but if you are not knowing, for example, cultivating your garden (to care about ecosystem, soil, water, animals and much more.... you (people in general) will finally destroy quality of life. You can believe in  JWorg as you wish and read magazines as you wish, but that not give assurance that you will not get to the point as we have now in that matter. WT Company, JW org using all modern product and "destroying Earth also as other non JW  believers by using trucks, cars, air-conditions, printing machines, computers etc. All  that would not be possible without pollution industry which support such products we all using. So, please do not put WT religion (and spiritual education) on piedestal of religion supremacy. It is out of place.  

 

thanks for informations!

lot of searching must be valuated

Why no one give some comments on "Christian life and ministry" ,hehehe

On 3/18/2017 at 14:36, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

where trials were held in the city gates for all those inside the city and outside the city to be able to see with their own eyes how Justice was administered.

James has highlighted very important text that GB not obey. If they using "two witness" rule from old and new testament as "principle" for congregational judicial procedure, than that must be in front all congregation. They "pick", what they wish, from bible reports and then doing as they like it.

Completely another is about  Matthew 18:15-17. Here is not about a witness of sin, crime who will support allegation. Here is about witness that you bring to another person with whom you have problem, and this one or two witness will be witness/ess of your words and approach to bro or sis, witness/ess of your conversation about something. NOT a witness on words or deeds of the accused, the suspect that make you endangered, offended, upset, BUT witness/ess of YOUR response to something that made you worry.  

On 5/27/2017 at 15:53, Mike Hora said:

It is more complex

...yes it is. But WT Corporation have no obligations to gives thorough reports to JW members where, how, for what and how much money was used. Members are nothing to WT Corporation, just members which are expected to give donations to "charity".  

11 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

In an organization that puts such value on Bible truth, wouldn't it make sense to discontinue a theory that has proven unreliable and has even mislead JWs? The GB did the opposite. They manufactured a new definition ...

This fine sentences remind me on GB claim how there is  "no purpose to repair this world, participate in activities to improve the world, JW members do not need to participate in them, why repair a sinking ship."

GB doing contrary to the advice that shares to others. Repairing doctrines that is good for nothing, but only to throw in garbage bag.

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Its education gives exclusive attention to training the mind, and none (or little) to training the heart,

In the Croatian model of education, elementary school and secondary school have the name, content - upbringing and educational program. And teachers and professors, as they can, as they wish, as they are able doing that, with more or less successful. But, does not the Bible and JW literature say that education and giving upbringing ( the treatment and instruction received by a child from its parents throughout its childhood. ) is the primary task of parents  and not of school teachers?? So, please do  not blame school system for world's problems and  bad behaviour of young people. Parents and old, mature people are "guilty" of that, because they giving bad example to young!!

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is more in the category of picking up job skills.

hahahahaha. If you can't blame deeds you blame owner of deeds :)))) 

similar is with "cross" I comment about it under some other conversation, but will copy/paste my comm here also;  

Reasoning from the Scriptures, page 89, Cross, JWorg library;

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux(from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

BUT GO TO ORIGINAL TEXT and see dropped text. WT put dots (...) instead text.

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek speaking countries.

Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole and this always reminded the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment a transverse piece of wood was commonly added; not, however, always even than.....The following text continues, describing the types of crosses and the ways in which the convicts were murdered...,others extending their arms on a patibulum. There can be no doubt, however, that the latter sort was the more common and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood. But this does not itself determine the precise form of the cross; .... The following text continues by describing 3 types of crosses.  —Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376

On 9/14/2017 at 14:00, TrueTomHarley said:

Jehovah's Witnesses do not ignore education but they do redefine it. 

This is interesting thought!

And also is interesting, significant, when in the magazine Awake interviewed highly educated individuals who have become JW. In our language edition of magazine, Croatian, during the interview, they are addressed with personal pronouns, You (plural). How come that brother interview other brother or sister with plural You. :))) for what reason?

-but this  introduction is just for little fun time :))))))

JW redefine education? No, they was redefine the purpose of life today, by telling people what to do and what not. They redefined the "normal" human needs in a way to speak to them, wait, you will be art painter, musician, scientist .... in the near future after Armagedon. Today you need to work some simple job just to have "bread and water", rest money give to Corporation for preaching work. You will be happy that way because bible teaching so.

I am "average" person. Average job. Working since my age of 17, worked various jobs; bookbinder, metal worker, all kind of house jobs that people need, gardener, and last 12 years am janitor in one high school. Last 2 years went to extra education, and last month successfully finished it. Now have diploma for "business secretary" and this last two years working half time as janitor and other half as school administrator. And i like it. Little in school administration with papers and peoples, other part some fixing works, going to town on delivery jobs. Communicate with all sort and age of people. Twice time i was helped and participate in school stage art, performance and went with drama group to few Croatian towns, to Italy, San Remo, take first place twice :)))).  

So called "worldly" education is for all people, not only for "worldly" :))))))))))))) 

On 9/10/2017 at 01:56, Gone Fishing said:

brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way

The problem arises when people who choose  themselves to be "the foolish things of the world" became really foolish in generating doctrines and instructions that have no connection to god. But they convinced themselves how they are wise in the presence of, before God.

So, who can help them? Man? God? No one.  Because why would they listen to "wise man in a flesh"? An with god, god decide to live them in their security of false wisdom to show to others how look the end of human wisdom, again. With or without prefix - "wise" or "foolish"  

17 hours ago, Witness said:

earthly calling vs heavenly calling

i think how number problem of 144000 in the year 1935 give reason to WT leaders of those days to make solution on issue and found verses in bible to confirm idea of heavenly class. Just  opinion that exist among people. If Jesus want rulers (kings and priests) they can do that job living on Earth too. Must not go to heaven. To rule " above, on, upon" the earth. Rulers must not be 500 km in earth orbit be able acting as kings. They can do the same job walking in midst of their subjects. But real relation between 144000 and people must be better and higher than king-subject relationship. But not like in old Israel time, that people must working for kings and their courtiers. :))))))))  give them food, gold, sons and daughters, ahahhaha. You never know, people are perishable goods, especially when they have money and power over  other human. 

Why would God need them in the heaven? They can do the same job on earth too. Jesus as man show how this is possible. He was the ruler, king and priest - walking with his feet on earth, on dust and water. And people liked him :)) 

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

my name

my Croatian name Srećko in english is Happy, Lucky (Felix) :)))))))))) maybe i will be lucky at the end of life, have to wait to see, ahahhahaaa

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Or to some other future job change with name change?

I forgot JHVH. He  changing roles and jobs but still hold same name JHVH.  

7 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The principle of "job change --> name change"

like your previous comment.

What was first job of The Word? Create! What was the first job of Michael? To fight! What was the first job of Jesus? To dye!

So Jesus get back to previous job position - to fight,again. After he will finish fighting, then he will get back to first job of creating, again? Or to some other future job change with name change?  

7 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

COMMON PRACTICE IN JEWISH SOCIETY

do i understand well? You are talking only about Jewish society, earthly people? You are not talking, i guess, about possibility that Spirits society members passing through the transition of changing names? I don't no what verse show us that angels or princes go through some personal drama in heaven and get new, different name. 

Or do i must lightening a little :))))

"Divine Education is Worth a Thousand Years of College"

I can agree only if we make public consensus that "divine" have nothing against all  other "education" that people not consider as "divine". 

But, all what it is in fact "education" can not be cut to pieces, with our personal inclinations to make distinction between two main level of "education", that JW member head thinks exist; religious, spiritual (in fact WT) education, and  on other side all earthly, worldly, scientifically, materialy education (in other name (fanatical expressed ) "satanic" education").

If god create universe and life as most of us believe, then he have not only "divine" but also "college" degree education :)))))    

Divine education is all sort of educations,and  not just "knowing" few verses from bible, hehe.

My understanding is that Jesus is one person, Michael is another person. 

If anyhow Jesus would be the Michael, than at the end of his prayer, bro on stage would be able to tell with no problem, and without surprise to public, "in Michael name, amen" :)))))))))  

13 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

That was Samson’s downfall. Delilah maneuvered him

Both Samson's ladies was manipulators. And Samson was type of person who like that in some way. He personally choosing first and second wife. So, you can not blame one and other not. Both are "guilty as charged" :))))   

I am very sad because all kids in the world who died because of various reasons.   

As my memory serves me, MAIN, PRIMAR reason for collecting money (in this or that methodology or organizational way how to do it)

 IS TO HELP POOR MEMBERS OR CONGREGATIONS. Read the Bible, not old Jew type and anti-type GB illustrations.  and explanations models.

NOT to building headquarter (cathedral :))), branch Bethels, ..... but helping people to have enough for life, in flesh and spirit.  

 

 

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Paul

- one thing that i like with Paul is that he worked (if bible reports are correct in this )))) with own hands on "worldly job" to be able supporting himself. Most of elders and ministerial servants doing in this way too, and that is ok. But top elders in Bethel and in WT are not good example to be compared with Paul in this matter.

Wish you all best.  

24 minutes ago, Anna said:

Raymond's opportunity to really expose this "huge problem".

Do not know, of course, what Raymond knew and not about paedophilia. When i was said "huge" i was thinking as big in  in relation to;

a) the general attitude of the JW organization and the excitement that its members are a highly moral person

b)  the number of members worldwide and the number of victims and their perpetrators, which are not publicly known, except for the Australian number that has become public, some write about 20-30 thousand pedophiles in JW. That's not a small figure for 8 million JW. Publication WT once wrote that every year some 80,000 members are excluded/disfellowshipped. So it is "huge" number no matter what was "sin".

39 minutes ago, Anna said:

$80 million dollars on stamps

or on luxury of new headquarters and WT logo on drain elements,  huh 

42 minutes ago, Anna said:

The organization is about preaching the good news

members are preaching for sure, but one big part of WT religious bureaucracy have different mission  

Thanks for conversation.  

"Germany Grants Highest Legal Status to Jehovah’s Witnesses" - i tried to found this article on Croatian JWorg to see how some terminology was translated to be able better understand the article but there is not existing this article - ??

Some quote from main source JWorg (english):

"Now that the Witnesses have finally been granted public law status in all German states, they are viewed as a single religious entity and enjoy the benefits that this status provides....the Witnesses applied for public law status because of the benefits...registered throughout the country as a public law corporation,...more than 2,000 congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany now function under a single corporate structure... Adjustments in an association’s structure resulting from an appointment of new elders, purchase of property, or the renaming or merging of congregations had to be reported to the government...A longtime elder in one congregation commented: “Now we have greater freedom to use donated funds to support the public ministry of congregation members.”...Without the superior legal status of public law, Jehovah’s Witnesses were not viewed as a mainstream religion...many false allegations against the Witnesses can be refuted....false allegation that they belonged to a ‘sect’ rather than to a religion.”...

All in all, WT corporation in Germany are now  lifted on higher level of religious bureaucracy (german people always has been organized very well :)))  and WT long asking, searching that JW be recognized as mainstream religion was successful. Now they are  officially  joined to  Babylon the Great with all others mainstream and less mainstream religions. Because of money issue of course, as first and main reason :))) at least they are now "function under single e corporate structure" according to article. 

Definition of corporate  Merriam-Webster