Srecko Sostar

http://www.osce.org/odihr/107277?download=true

just one example from JW involving in OSCE conferences (NO 17 and 146 on page 42, 57) look with what other various NGO groups they chat. This is Warsaw conference in 2014. But list go up and down in time. 

Read this below carefully also and see how WT share the same principles as UN Charter, WT hypocrites.  

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

So someone raised in the truth doesn't really need to waste years of searching.

Glad to hear your experience, but i will quote your big brother A. Morris III who all this what you told us say in one nonsense statement: "Stick with what we have authorised and you will be saved."

Must i remind you or readers of WT how GB also said:

"We need to obey FDS..."

"WE need to obey any instruction...."

"We are not inspired, we can err in instructional and doctrinal matters ...."   

But anyway ----- "Stick with what we have authorised and you will be saved."

That make me sadly laughing :))))) 

On 10/5/2017 at 16:00, TrueTomHarley said:

"Someone said ......" to the end of comment

I can see Tom your hard working in thinking. You have battle inside you, and that is good. I also see that you still looking at all this through black/white lenses and that is not good.

You mentioned "Witness" and "separated college students" = brainwashed. After reading your text, my conclusion would be that all are brainwashed no matter are they 24/7 or 2/2. You are sure how students are deceived because mount of hours in class, but i will say that WT education program is much effective because they have same result (brainwashed) with only 4 hours a week :))))))))))))))     

"Human agency" aka WT has hidden things, some of them we talk about. "Shepherd  the Flock"  or "Preparing for child custody cases" books are one of them. 

"How could anybody be so stupid? No", you said. People must not to be stupid, but deceiver must be much more clever while making people stupid. :))))))) Deceiver must gain trust from the victim, and one of method is to tell some truth and some half truth, after that false truth will take place.  

you quote: "the 'world will chew you up and spit you out". With power of clever-stupid explanations GB chew up and spit out many Bethelites and pioneers after many years of "faithful service", because economic issue aka - money the god-. Issue of money and power, control over people are always main reason, not "adjustments" to the Truth. In WT terminology, "Adjustments" are made for the goal of hold and gain control over masses of followers.     

Hehe, Violations of Human Rights is when WT JWorg and their representatives forbid  JW members to exercise their Personal Human Rights and talk, or make social contacts on all levels or to sit and eat and drink if wish, or even say simple "hello" on the street to ex-member. This WT command are with the threat of excommunication, disfellowshiping. If that not be with such extreme consequences many JW members will communicate with ex members. And many of them doing that. I am ex member of JW church and on my glad surprise more JW members find that is all right to speak with me. They "disobey"  WT interpretation on canonic text  but obey their god given Natural conscience instead Artificial "bible learned conscience" that is imposed and runned by WT Corporation.

And as Court say, "their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text. . . ."

Perhaps Court (because of wisdom, ahaha) do not want to involve themselves in endless reasoning about what some bible text mean and how is to be understand. But all other people who want to tell something are Free to tell and comment.  

5 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

Best wishes and greetings from Germany,  Agape !

Same to you from Zagreb!  

4 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

History reports on and of had mistakes

Hi Esther! It looks like you misunderstand something, when you dropped first word in my sentence - "Bible history reports...". Well as you can see, if you put little more attention  , i specifically thinked on history reports that are placed in Bible, not in so called "worldly" history, which you obviously consider problematical. I agree that "history" can be questionable from our time looking, because "history are written by  winners", they say.

I would like to say and little more about Bible. As you aware, many translations of Bible existing. Even WT changed several times own translations of NWT. With very important changes. When i said "important" i don't mean by that how all of those  modifications, corrections and remodeling are in positive direction, but opposite. For sincere believers those transitions on Bible content (includes whole passages of text, words, letters and even comas) can bring that person to put himself in position (extremely sometimes, but very possible) to worship god in wrong, false way without knowing that.

Average person or average JW member have not enough time, nor will to test, examine what brings to him when WT catechist and scholars decide to intervene in Bible text.            

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Looking back, I'd have to say

Thank you  .  Finally the voice of reason, honesty, sincerity and accurate information/knowledge about what The Corporation was done/is doing is heard.

32 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The rules are ....

You are funny. Maybe kids would believe this. Not me :))))

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is only a corporation because the laws of this world will not let you operate otherwise.

:)))))))))))))) none of us must not be too much educated in management and business and trade law and take such explanation as true.

In Mexico, in one period of time JW was registered as Cultural Society and can operate in the country with real estate that was stayed in WT property. On June 10, 1943, application was made to the Secretariat of Foreign Affairs to register La Torre del Vigía as a civil society, and this was approved on June 15, 1943. This meant that the brothers can no longer sing, pray and use the Bible in their "cultural" meetings. This way they sacrificed the worship of Jehovah, singing praises to him and using the Bible because owning their property and assets was much more important than praying, singing & using the Bible.  - Please don't disinform people with wrongly idea.  

"In 1989, with the approval of the Governing Body, a letter was written to all the “companies” saying that as of April 1, we would be operating in Mexico as a religious organization."  yb95 page  233 Mexico   

25 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Even the 'apostles and old men' of the first century would have organized themselves as a corporation if that were a necessity to legally operate.

What Bible said that ???? :))))))

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

yet, as we know, is no longer owned by the congregation.  

Hi! Every KH , real estate, is/are in possession by WT corporation. In some part of world, countries, in specific time period, as here in Croatia or ex Yugoslavia as you wish, in period of communist political era, when private property was limited in some elements, many KH was on private names of JW members. After fall of communism in E Europe, status for JW church has changed and in time all existing KH are transferred in the hand of WT corporation.   

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

A "collection plate" can come in all forms

very witty saying

16 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

For  @Srecko Sostar ....

MEANS....   We  NEVER  can  loyal  worship  2 GOD' S !!      Either  JEHOVAH   or   SATAN....  understand ?

Bible history reports gives otherwise, different facts ... understand?   Description that is given in such reports assure readers that Israel people believed very sincerely that they worship one true god, but in fact they worship 2 or more god's.  So never say never :))))) 

18 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

No not me. Are you thinking of @Srecko Sostar who said:

"i am just "mule" who stubbornly stops on the road  and speak :))))))))) find the parable if you can, hehehe "

if you are a donkey or a mule (like me :)))))))))))), you can say what you want and how you want, no one will blame you! True? ahahhaaha

17 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

I grew up in the Truth.

Thanks for respond. I knew also few interesting and difficult experiences about JW families, parents, children, and mutual relations after one or few family member stop to go in hall or to believe in WT doctrines (dogmas is better word). Some parents, even single parents trow child out of house (because elders pressure them  to do so) even child is minor and have problems in many ways.

My very critical thoughts and language i used sometimes while commenting on this forum is product of knowing other side of JWorg medal, (dark side of "spiritual paradise") stories that is under curtain of family life, that is not seen, spoke publicly in KH Sunday meetings. Interactions when elder of congregations are so eager and zealous to help, because of high level of self righteous and spirituality :)))) and he is not just young or inexperienced person, in fact one of first elders not only in  congregation but in whole country, appointed to come from different place and country, before many many years. His helping to that family and children, ended in the way that this minor kid cuted her veins. Lucky for her not with deadly end. But this kid is so terrible ruined in psyche in emotion, soul. Everything has started with rebuke and  disapproval from elders side when one summer, father of that few kids (who is ex-JW) called his minor kids to spend some time at holidays. And kids done that (with knowledge of mother who is JW) Ohhh what great sin they done :))))))) or :(((((((       

Mixing OT and NT counsels with WT interpretations on bible text, how parents need to teach, counsel, discipline their children is/are very problematic, uninspired with too much error. If whole bible is inspired and serve as role model than it is little tricky to use some Old Testament "principles" (what is principles??? which principles???) in some bible verses or examples, constructing  type-anytype model??? or more, then pick some verses from NT verses and applicate all that amalgam into today time and people. You have, as result people inside JWorg who feel that they will never reach such goal, always feel guilty because that, pushed to do more and more in this or that "christian" activity. You have more than half of congregational population who are lost, lost between normal, genuine, god's given Natural conscience on one side and Artificial "bible trained conscience" regulated and imposed by WTJWorg.       

If we take in consideration WTJWorg custom (and encouraging young ones inside org) to accept decisions from 5-15 year old kids to be baptised and by that become part of organization about what they know nothing, then kids are capable to make decision on every life matter- driving licence, married, job, school. Because by WT way of thinking - to get baptised is the most important decision in Life that every person can make. All other decisions in life are less important if are important at all in comparison to this one - be baptised as JW.

Some kids can show more maturity than some adults about something, and today's time is different than before past years. Children "swallowing" more and more info than generation before so they "know" many things, even more than adults in some things. Older are to confident that they "know" enough. All in all we all making "informative" decisions. :)))

47 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

little more thought to what you are trying to express.

hehe, ok, but do you not understand nothing or some parts? What logic is not understandable ?  Perhaps one part of problem is sentence grammar logic in my language that is not same in english. Thanks for your try

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

carry on about there being a true religion and an end of this system of things.

If WT and members prefer more to be called as "only true religion" and proves that with methods that are only suits them (self-rightful and self-justified methods), instead of charity works which are done by other people, groups or organizations whose methods and tries to help, according to WT and your quote are of no value. 

Because according  your terminology is just vain attempt to "fix" what is not fixable. Then please think about that how in this minutes when we, you and i speaking in the wind, doing nothing, some other people, who are not JW members, feeding hungry babies, giving water to thirsty people, giving education to children in some forgotten country, curing illness and helping  patients to endure the pain ..... and that all is just meaningless work???

 Your recommendation and counsel is not to do that kind of "fixing" but -- if you see your brother that is hungry, tell him, go brother and feed yourself ...but  i will give you internet address of JWorg and you will be spiritually satiated :)))))  This is not USA or Croatian way of "humor", this is biblical way, ahaha.        

47 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

this is sillier and more irresponsible than most of what you have said

:)))) perhaps, but anything is possible. On other hand, WT is corporation and have more benefit of living members (bringing money) than dead members. Those who died for reason of faith are kind of martyrs and are good for history books. Depend of to what group someone belongs he/she will  glorify its representatives, not representatives of someone  else's group, religion and so.  

Your daughter said nice answer, but WT knows who will be saved and who not. Answers are in 140 years published materials. :)))

i am just "mule" who stubbornly stops on the road  and speak :))))))))) find the parable if you can, hehehe 

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

And as you observe

Thanks to your post i can observe. And because this forum is designed to comment i also do that. Thanks to US law of free speech and Amendments :))) 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the world is salvageable and we should all work to fix it

Tom, and bible too gave hope that the world is salvageable, or "the good news" told something else?

If you are agree with JW teachings, you as JW member also working to fix it, do not you? Must i really make drawing picture to show that for you? :))) You as member try to "fix" :

1) yourself because you are, if you are, in process of "gaining new personality" according to Jesus image, or JHVH image :)))

2) you and WT creating "new nation", or "new earth" instead (which will replace) this "old".

Is it not obvious that you with all WT disciples and followers working on "fixing The World" (with "publishing" methods, with legislative methods), but wait for someone else to do "dirty job", and kill all who are not agree with NWO? But what if GB released instruction and say that members have to do that dirty job?? like in old time when Israel males and some females killed "the enemy"  :((( because god said so.     

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Pursue legal means to effect reversal of ignorant injustice.

If we, every single person, JW or non-JW "pursue legal means" for purpose to oppose all injustice that threatens various people all around the world for every kind of "ignorant injustice" - than we would show what it is in our mind and heart. Then we will advocate for all people without prejudice and we would be impartial, and not only for one of "our sort".

He, Dennis, choose to "dye" for god and fatherland aka WT organization. Maybe my words sounds unsympathetic or rough, but  injustice are everywhere, inside us and outside of us. Prison time can be good time for Dennis to make personal introspective of his feelings, attitudes, reasons, faith, belongings and much more. But of course that must not be the case, perhaps he will continue in supporting stubbornness for "wrong zeal" to establish own and/ or WT righteousness. 

Watchtower is ONLY business corporation (and only FOR business) Synonyms in JW vocabulary for WT are; organization, society, Mother organization, God's organization. In such perception, in fact every average JW member are assured in his/her believing, and that is true, how it is from God JHVH. WT is religious corporation or corporational religion, what ever you prefer more. 

Shareholders comes every year on Annual meeting that look like congregational meeting with new "spiritual food" lessons, revelations, teachings, doctrines, instructions. What a mix. And according to video all shareholders are"mature, active and faithful males" :))))) So really this corporation are macho style religion.

Non-stock and non-profit? hehehehe  

Glad that was mentioned 1. President W.H. Conley but need to add, Russell the Father (Joseph) was Vice President with young C.T.Russell as Secretary Treasurer. In time of Inc. 1884. Charles became President and his wife Maria was Secretary Treasurer. So, Russel in that particular time was very advanced in his looking on woman's "role, place and nature" or just want that business stay in family :))))))

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

but James 1:13 remains true.

Perhaps we can comment on this verse connected to issue in this way. 

Reasons for Dennis is in jail are;

because WT instructions,

because Dennis obey WT instructions,

because Dennis interpretations on WT instructions,

because on Dennis interpretations on Bible and Gods will,

because Dennis decide to not obey Russian law,

because ...... 

I would like to comment about Dennis from few aspects. 

1) What is Gods will in this matter? Because no one know what it is, we, as people, can talking and talking what ever we want.

2) What is of best interest to Dennis? Is it better for him to be in prison or to be "free"? Because nobody knows that, we can wish what ever we want but that must not bring nothing good or bad to Dennis.

3)What is that in Bible which would give suggestion to people what would be good to do about Dennis? As to my knowledge and memories, the best is to stay and wait on JHVH. Second solution is to pray that he can endure his life position, and third is to rejoice, he and all around him because he is in position to suffer for Jesus name or JHVH name. So somebody can ask, why to stop him of opportunity to be happy and feel all joy because his suffering is for blessing.

4) Don't you think that God let to be so because Dennis must learn important lessons in life that he was not learned yet?

56 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You need to lighten up

Thanks for lighten details. I can accept some humorous, even in serious things. So Tom show some sense of humor on what i was smiled. But only on one part. On other part can not.

But if it is so in USA (not meaning nothing bad with this) than i can now finally understand all about WT organization. US citizen who are founders of that corporation/religion is all that what you tell me in your little story.    

Guys, now i must go, you know .. i have new task in my To do List - to find some talking mule in nearby area :)))))))))

44 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

don't believe in....

WTJWorg said that JW people are most honest people in a world, the most truthful and all superlatives. The way you talk to me in this last respond, all that what your church claim is/are - you mocking now and doing grotesque and burlesque of your Faith and yourself. Sorry, but if is so with you, I do not see purpose to communicate with you in this way.

Stay well.