Srecko Sostar

Strong, exclusively statement. Please give me few examples. :))

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I am not speaking biblically. I am simply speaking of reasons that are not hypocritical.

Tom i do not know you, are you JW, JW in good standing, fading JW, sleeping JW, weak faith JW .... or whatever/whoever else.

I just wrongly expected that all words you using would be "biblical" or as some NT verse said "seasoned with the salt" aka biblical salt. My fault :)))).

So may i said that you are not fully honest - i will not call you as, hypocritical for the sake of polite conversation :)))) That is something we must check for ourselves. 

Right reasons for you must not be right reasons for me and vice versa. It is unpleasant surprise, but not unexpected, that you talking about so called "essential doctrines", and named two or three as genius, original and essential, but forget all doctrines and instructions that ones was The Truth and constitute doctrines and teachings that was, and this new today are, specific, special, or as publications said with this specific term unique to JW religion. If you go to religion history many of those unique doctrines and teachings are not so new and specific only to WTJWorg. You can find it in other religions and religious groups too. Some of them existing, some are history.  

I left because i love the truth, but not your truth or WT truth. So, would you put this reason to right or wrong, it is not something that must make me worried. :))      

3 minutes ago, Bible Speaks said:

They deceive even the world, courts and the weak in Faith!

In other words - satan deceiving satan?

Do you negate wrongdoing that WT have done about/to victims of child molestation? 

3 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

professional apostates

Will you please explain this terminology. How on earth apostates can be professional :)))

Merriam-Webster:  Definition of apostate for English Language Learners; someone whose beliefs have changed and who no longer belongs to a religious or political group

Thousands of ex JW members: childrens, adults, young and old, male or female, ordinary members or ex ministerial, elders, pioneers, missionaries, Bethelite...how can they be professional  apostates. 

If i am finished some school and be learned by some who know job, maybe i will come to be "professional" some day in future. But what education people have to finished to become "professional apostates"?

This picture and text about purpose for meeting is proof in a series of evidence about the relationship between religion (particularly JW religion) and politics. 

Now we have at least two possibility.

In first one, JW member (if somehow come to this and similar info) maybe will try to explain to self that it is fine that brother try to do best in "defending and legally establishing of the good news" - no problem if he must for that noble goal "sitting in the same table with devil" and his human servants.  

In second, after hearing or reading such material, mental condition occurs in JW member (or anyone else) which negates reality. Facts, evidence, reality - says one but rooted idea, faith in that what they taught to him, rejecting the possibility that he or his teachers (scholars, catechists) are in the wrong. That mind state calls cognitive dissonance. This disease is sometimes incurable.

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But one should leave for the right reasons

From GB standpoint, leaving JW it is not impossible with "right reasons". Because according GB theology leaving JW = leaving God. So, who can have good reasons to leaving God?? :))))))

Please Tom, asking questions is crucial, and there is no WRONG questions, but please ....you made STATEMENT - "But one should leave for the right reasons." With this no one can go anywhere. :))    

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nobody ever said

heehe, now you speak as GB in WT magazine; "Jesus never told that FDS will produce perfect food"

Do you aware what a nonsense is to using such logic and argumentation?? "Jesus never told...." this or that. Who was been with Jesus all the time while on Earth that would be able to CLAIM TODAY - Jesus never told (this/that) ...??? 

WT publications and public talks using this  auxiliary sentence, buzzword, phrase to support what is impossible to support. It is not possible to support two things; 1) human error doctrine and 2) reality of what Jesus told or not told.

Please, please, standing for such idea is blasphemy. Imagine what Jesus would feel and tell for people who dare to claim (in his name) that they know what HE was told and what He was not told. Imagine if you have spirit (i guess you have). :)))

Dear people. And Kurt.

I would like to comment your calling for Dennis from few aspects. 

1) What is Gods will in this matter? Because no one know what it is, we, as people, can talking and talking what ever we want.

2) What is of best interest to Dennis? Is it better for him to be in prison or to be "free"? Because nobody knows that, we can wish what ever we want but that must not bring nothing good or bad to Dennis.

3)What is that in Bible which would give suggestion to people what would be good to do about Dennis? As to my knowledge and memories, the best is to stay and wait on JHVH. Second solution is to pray that he can endure his life position, and third is to rejoice, he and all around him because he is in position to suffer for Jesus name or JHVH name. So somebody can ask, why to stop him of opportunity to be happy and feel all joy because his suffering is for blessing.

4) Don't you think that God let to be so because Dennis must learn important lessons in life that he was not learned yet?

Think this is enough for first comment :)))       

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

it has only been applied to political matters in the last decade

i think that can be applied and on religious sphere. Flip-flop with teachings and doctrines is nothing else than "spinning" in circle. For example organ transplantation or blood components. One day you can, next day no you can not. Generation issue is spin also. Michael the archangel is in first place Roman Pope but today is Jesus - what a spiiiiin :))))   

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Spin

I know, America is the source of many inventions. I assume that in many countries is like in Croatia too. English language is popular, and "small" languages in many things, in lexical way for purpose of our conversation, are in "copy-paste" manner. Here is also popular to use "spin" instead some domestic words or explanation. hehehehe lack of personal vocabulary, lazy-nest to learn, using because it is "modern" or that person looks as is modern.

But about our purpose, spinning is just adequate for that what we talking about. WT is modern organization and have own PR personnel, so everyone can spin everything.     

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

translates

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He was probably giving you

Of course, Miloš was "nice old brother". What he was done good or bad in his JW life is not on me to take too much care, and is outside of my knowledge. But according to experience and information i have with some other bro's on position of power, "spinning from good to bad" is skill that is not strange to them.

As to bro Miloš, i know that he helped one bro in ex yugoslavia to get the position of regular pioneer  (in those old time 90 hours a month). Domestic elders in his cong.  not want to sign his request for regular pioneer, so he and one elder-friend of him went to Belgrade (from Zagreb) to settle things with first elder of YU Bethel. I am witness to that.

Spinning is very spacious expression :)))))

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Attach your refusal to the highest cause possible if you want to maximize chances of success.

I was not first nor last in those time in that matter. Sentences for refusing was 1-10 years. Bethel knew that as they knew that some bros was in prison few times for the same "crime". As to my knowledge Bethel did not want to involve them self to help brothers in that issue and "negotiate" with authority. Maybe the are, i do not know,  but not publicly and perhaps did not want to share such info among rank and file. You know that many thing until today WT and GB want to do in secrecy. Imagine why. Example for that is so evident - Russian ban is top news on all JWorg programs, but ARC and G. Jackson disposal in front Judge and M. Agnus (lawyer) is not mentioned with one single word or letter or coma on JWorg and publications. I do not see what is your purpose to defend such manner of corporation and their leaders.

Of course that many details are not known to me, but i also recall in period after 1990, one of first Bethel elders, Petar Hamadej, said it clearly, "we do not want to suggest to secular government what to do about JW (in regard some issue, civil service or else) but we want that they give suggestion, idea, solution and then we say Yes or No". My conclusion after such statement and attitude is how people in WT org who are on "responsible positions" are very complicated people. It is better to not have any job with them :))))  

59 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The concept of NATURAL and ARTIFICIAL conscience

Dear friend James,

Thank you very much for your response.

This clarity and reveal, answer about this issue came to me recently, so do not feel sad for your mind opening so late in life, hehehe.

I found how very important thing is to get out of WTJWorg thinking box (that has been my life/religious space all this decades). Between, inside boundaries of WT theology, often is not possible to see more than WT scholars let for average JW to see. Reasons for that can be many, on behalf/side of WT and every member of course. 

Some ex-JW lamentate on YT how WT do not gave them to celebrate Christmas, birthdays. To me such things are not of crucial importance. But is example of slavery for members. It seems more important to me to let ourselves permission to freely investigate, search and listen pro et contra facts and opinion. I was reading some of your thoughts and found it very new to me and important.  

Thanks!            

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

like good counsel

Hi Tom! I was born in Zagreb and living here. 

Prison is not hard, but prisoners :)))))

Counsel from late brother Miloš Knežević was because not to bring problems to society in YU, so from other perspective we can talk now how WTorg was/is ready, determined to instruct rank and file members in that way to protect corporation, and to put all responsibility on "personal decision"  which, whose are product, not primarily in members clear perception and understanding that came from his inside, from that person,  and by that  is his/her unique and only one possible choice made on foundation of conscience.

Such or similar decisions in JW world, are made on "bible trained conscience" as product of doctrines and instructions of society. Not because I or you or anyone else come to such conclusion by inspired revelation inside our mind in one crucial and inimitable moment  of life. I can agree on religious, pacifists, humanitarian or philosophic reasons to not to go to war. JW are not unique in refusing military service as they claim (preaching service too) Members of Adventist church and Nazarian church was with me in the same prison also. And they do that also from the same main reason as JW, because members doing that what they have to do as members. 

Religious people as JW, have two sort of conscience. One is Natural, God given sense, from birth. Second sort of conscience is "trained" by WT org, by bible, by society, by tribe, family, books .... So, as one person growing, he/she forming mix of rules what is acceptable and what is not. Sometimes first and main natural sense can not go on daylight because of learned, trained, instructed, artificial conscience. And that artificial conscience is on work when they do not want to say hello to ex members. How i know that? I looked into the face of such person and  see amalgam of pride, hidden shame, stubbornness, guilty, fear of men, fanaticism. 

Quote

 

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

amazing accomplishment of those eight

 they had hard time while defending "The Truth" of JW church. They must be very worried about expenses of the trip/voyage) and Court and if they fail to free Russian WT org/corp.

I had also some expenses while before Military Court in 1980 in Belgrade (ex Yugoslavia) because of "neutrality" issue. They gave me lawyer (attorney ex officio) but i stand by my self in fact. In those time first man of Yugoslavia Bethel  (in Belgrade) told me to not tell that i refuse military service because i am JW, but because my "bible trained conscience", ---that switch on little lamp inside me, but hey, who am I to question things??:))))))

All at all to make long story short, I get 3 years prison time, and have to pay all expenses from my pocket. Not from WT black days funds ahahahaa.        

1 hour ago, Rosalie Barry said:

 

The Bible says the wages sin pays is death therefore if a person dies they have paid the price

 

If you or anyone else insist on this bible verse from OT as doctrinal explanation on human and sin, then we have very big problem.

Is/are Death of imperfect human really pays price for sin OR Jesus blood and death pays price for sins of every human????????

If your or mine death in car accident pays all my sinful state of body and mind and heart,  if that pays all sins of mine, then what is the purpose  of Jesus  death?? if not to take all sins from humans and pays price before God???   

Story (and many similar) about Isa and Aunti and all that what this story want to tell to reader (given conclusion, message) is not according to Jesus teaching  and grace!! 

44 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

...slammed for doing the right thing...

No, they (WT)  been disciplined from Court because they done/doing wrong and even bad things to own members.

47 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It's no concern of yours as the pastor.

Sorry, but this is error constantation. We all know very well what is expected of single member and what is prime obligation for every single elders in cong.

For members is to report every bad conduct they witnessed (life experience are various and some members are stick to that (bible) rule with more or less enthusiasm and with some personal perception on procedure, steps how to do that, when to obey all rules or choose to pick some of them in practical situation. So, officially, it is of concern for every JW member.    

For elders it is required to "shepherd" aka protect, discipline, counsel or disfellowship everyone who are not inside rules.

About records and informations about paedophile inside elders bodies and various congregations. That is problematic field (for organization) because their handling on issue have too much "holes", failures, purposely hiding informations. Have in mind that in fact all instructions was orchestrated from Legal Department and  Official Desk (Service Committee) in Bethel. By that in some situations elders are "puppet on the stream", but that is their choice and i not need to have "niceness" for their errors, wrong decisions and sometimes stupidity when they "obey" unrighteous and wrong instructions from GB.    

In several Courts subjects, WT are disobeyed Court decision to give, produce documents for case. Is that what honest and truthful and righteous elders would do?? From top elders of GB to lower elders in congregations??  In my world there is no Fear Obligation Guilt to openly say about things how they really are in the WT that was part of own or other people experience and insight.

17 hours ago, Anna said:

View the 2017 Child Safeguarding policy

Sorry, but must reacted to first nonsense i saw on page 2.

They wrote: "This Policy is in harmony with the long- standing and widely published religious principles of JW, ...

What "long standing and widely published religious principles"???If those NEW policy are long standing???? why change old Policy??? to New one that is long standing and widely known???

What "Widely published"?? Policy and Elders book are not widely published for JW members and non JW public. So, it is known only to elders and to few one if some informations was leaked to outside.  

sorry Anna but i am upset with first few sentences of Policy, what expect me if i continue to read all 73 pages :)))))))

16 hours ago, Anna said:

...off topic...

Hi Anna. If i may be let to say, again, video picture made that first impression on my mind, so that was the reason  for put such comment in post. Apologize for made people upset :). 

If things about elders and victims are in progress of change, ok. If that change is for better, very good. If this will be really for victims benefit, excellent.  

But i would like to say this too. It is very shameful that progress in this, child molestation issue, was began to happen because "Worldly Court" initiative, investigations, judging. Those people who was involved in whole process of ARC or somewhere else, are people of this "satan" world (atheist or belonging to false religion, or to some other philosophy that not take JHVH in consideration when speaking about life), so it is very devastating that "only true religion" with its leaders aka GB or FDS are not been taught and guided by Holy Spirit, JHVH or Jesus in this very important thing. Are GB do not received proper food in proper time from Master???

Or They,  GB, Disobeyed their Leader Jesus instructions??? and He put WTJWorg in hands of "Egypt, Babylon and Medo Persia"  to give them a lesson?? Just my imagination and interpretation. But hey, history gave examples that support my idea :))).

16 hours ago, Anna said:

(however sisters will never be able to take part in a JC committee because of its “official” nature).

I do not know your reason why you to put word "official" in apostrophe. Does that mean for you how sister's role are nature inside JWorg, or you wish change and think that such "Official nature" is not nature in fact??

Let me give one biblical example on Women's "role and nature" in time of Judges. Debora was Judge for all sons of Israel. And her words have to been obeyed. And no one characters, like G. Jackson, or A. Morris or any other GB member or "Helper" or elder  have no right to tell opposite and put woman on lower level. Yes, women are made on god's image and have all qualifications to participate in all life matters. Not only investigations but judging also!!!

If somebody thing different, he/she have that right to think and act according to his perception. But for me NO! Woman and man are equal besides their differences.   

*the starting picture of the video - causes transmitted meaning, allegory

Some day in the future Judicial Committees in JW congregations will be consist of male and female members. Sisters role for "peace and security aka safety"  for the children that have been molested, from JW members inside families or congregation or anyone else, will be of crucial, important meaning. Children, female children particularly, perhaps would found to feel more comfortable to answer on intimate questions in front of compassionate woman then before man. Not ask me why? You can imagine why? (JC elders asking very inappropriate questions, interrogation to children (and adults too) about sexual experience and what and how all that have happened) causing more trauma because elders have  not proper education (in every way) to deal with such sensitive issue.

quote under the picture of Dragan Covic: "We appreciate the decisive role of women in all process (of investigation and judging)

message from UN poster: "Together for Peace. Respect, Safety@Dignity For All (victims of injustice that was caused by man) 

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

paying attention to details, and missing many

:))) universal, unbeatable truth/conclusion .  ohhh how many we missed .... 

2 hours ago, Anna said:

being serious

All sorts of hedge funds, money and stock funds. Trust entities. Building, buying and selling real estates. That all produce money for spending.

Money from members, from kid who "sold chicken" and gave half money to society or from kid who change her mind and not going to "ice-cream after Sunday morning KH meeting" :((((.

Choose whatever source. All come to Money Department where managers and bookkeeping stuff take orders from "above" and share and spend somebody else's money.

Nothing is free in "Spiritual Paradise", not even a free of charge magazine. You pay all that. With money, with emotions, with intellect, with freedom, with soul, with psyche, with free labour. With life. 

5 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Are there any suggestions as to what it actually is? 

 "Generation"

You can go to Index or Concordance of Bible words. Search word "generation" or synonyms of the same word. Than put all that together on paper with hand writings, like in good old days :)))), or using Words and Excel , and after few months will be able to derive some sort of conclusion and interpretation.

But will be of not special help. Why? Because, first you need to answer on question, Why you want to know What Word Generation means?? What particular meaning you want to give to this word, and what is your expectations about meaning?

When in fact we use that expression in everyday vocabulary without any special confusion, doubts  about  the meaning  :)))))   

6 hours ago, Anna said:

I was wondering what do legal fees, such as lawsuits, fall under?

Anna you have answer before eyes :))))

6 hours ago, Anna said:

DISASTER RELIEF