Srecko Sostar

1 hour ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

God’s Law Cannot Be Changed

I think we should take a more moderate view of it. Everything is subject to change. Even for God himself, although it is written that He does not change, we must be less dogmatic about such statements.
Who gave the Law at the time of Moses? YHVH. Who abolished the law in 29 BCE? YHVH. The Law changed because God himself changed in his treatment of man.

Or is it not? The law through Moses is still alive and there are people who obey it. Therefore, the Law remained unchanged. But at the same time it was changed because there are more people who don't follow it. Thus the very purpose of the Law changed, because it became dead. Especially if we look at it theologically as something that was interrupted by the act of Jesus' sacrifice by which it fulfilled, terminated and ceased to exist as an eternal decree for Jewish generations. It seems confusing.

A modern example from WTJWorg that we can use describes this conflict. The law was given in the time of Moses not to eat blood. And people do not eat blood out of respect for that decree. The ordinance continues in the same form in the early days of Christianity....... Then, centuries later, the interpretation arises that the commandment not to eat blood means not to receive a blood transfusion. Has the original Commandment been changed or not? Then we go even further in time where the Bible scholars at WTJWorg add a later explanation about blood transfusions and say that some parts of the blood are forbidden and other parts of the blood are not forbidden to take. Has there been a change in the Law/Regulation/Order? Or do you think it isn't? Do you think it was just a clarification? :))

2 hours ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

God has provided guidance in the form of a conscience and, in addition, His own wise counsel and instructions.

If conscience is implanted in man directly by God, then it is the best guide for man. You mention that as an "addition" he gave his wise advice and instructions. I assume that this means written sacred things, mainly what can be found in the Bible, at least as far as the Christian world is concerned.

If the conscience can be corrupted and become dull, and as most people believe, it is placed in a man by God himself, then it is a terrible misfortune for mankind. If God's wise counsels and instructions, aka the Bible, can be corrupted through human intervention through theological explanations and interpretations, then it is nothing strange, because conscience as the first line of defense has already fallen much earlier. Because the conscience should be able to distinguish between human interpretations and recognize deceptions. But a misconception prevails. When JW members are able to recognize this, that deception is also in their house, then they will be on the road to restoration. Renewal is an ongoing process. And, in my opinion, it is not an institutional matter, but a personal one.

5 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

I owe you an apology, because I supported that doctrine too, and I would have shunned you just as much as the rest of the org does. I am sorry.

Thank you for your truly great compassion. Please don't feel like that anymore, because, well, we survived and it's "as if nothing happened". I have three siblings and a mother. Two brothers and mother decided not to contact. The oldest brother makes a phone call from time to time. Wife is JW.

Stay well!

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

In short, showing honor to someone does not result religious worship

How do you show respect to a person who left the Church or was excluded from it?
Is it so that you don't greet her on the street?

Who is the God you worship?
Jesus spoke not only to tax collectors and adulterers but also to religious opponents.
Everyone who talks to me and others like me on this forum is violating religious rules and beliefs if they are JW members. They should also be excommunicated...immediately ..... hahaha

9 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

 

I have a car. It's not perfect, but it gets me where I need to go. Even though it's got issues, I don't throw it out, because it's all I've got to go in, unless I want to walk everywhere.

 

Until we can read Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek and find the original manuscripts (which are no longer in existence) we're going to have to do the best we can with what we've got - imperfectly copied and translated manuscripts and translations. We do have Jehovah's holy spirit to help us apply the Bible counsel; His holy spirit which doesn't corrode or get lost. When we prayerfully follow the Bible direction to the best of our abilities in harmony with holy spirit, we will get through better than if we didn't have Bible principles. 

 

When Jesus gets here, he will tell us directly what to do. He's not here yet. The Bible is the temporary means to get through this mess of a world. It's the best book we've got to direct us. Some people want to throw it out, but I don't recommend it. I've tried three different ways: (1) No Bible direction (2) Bible direction mixed with poisoned publications (3) Bible direction. It's no contest - hands down in my experience following God's Word is the only way to fly.

I generally agree with your position. The difference between an old car and the Bible is that the condition of the car does not have such a big influence on our decisions, as does a religion that waves the Bible in front of the noses of believers.
Copying the actions and decisions of people from the past does not always end well. On the other hand, the repurposing of their experiences in order to be adapted to the ideology of today's Church Administration and the circumstances of life is also a dangerous precedent.

In general, we all know what is right and what is wrong. How to achieve that the wolf is fed and the donkey alive? For that, you don't need religious leaders who will tell a believer not to vote in state elections, but at the same time the WTJWorg Administration will participate in political conferences to promote religious activity and sue states that restrict WTJWorg "freedom".

9 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Jesus' illustration about a faithful slave was part of a set of illustrations talking about keeping on the watch. All Christians are commanded to keep on the watch. Jesus was NOT using that expression as a title or a label or a prophecy about a certain group of leaders. Jesus said "all you are brothers" and "call no one Rabbi or Leader for One is your Leader, God". When someone called Jesus "Good Teacher" he did not accept such a label. Why would Jesus have given such a title as "His Eminence, Most Holy Pope" or "Benevolent Leader" or "Faithful and Discreet Slave" to a man or a group of imperfect men who he told to stamp themselves down and behave as lowly ones? Here's the answer: Jesus didn't give them that title. They took it upon themselves. Shame on them. And shame on them for poisoning the publications with that teaching mixed in with God's Word.

One representative of WTJWorg, I think it was for the needs of a court case, openly admitted that the JW Corporation is structured the same as the Catholic Church, that is Hierarchical.

9 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Jesus didn't set up special schools. The Pharisees had special schools. Jesus didn't set up special publications. The Pharisees had special publications. The arrangement for a commune funded by "voluntary" donations is not scripturally based. The first century Christians were commanded to work for what they ate and not to live off of others. "If he doesn't work, let him not eat." Those who disobeyed such direction were to be marked and avoided. According to Paul's counsel, the Bethelites and the GB and the COs should all be marked and avoided. Certainly most of them are just ignorant to what the Bible teaches, but if they were to reread that chapter where Paul is talking about marking in context they would see it is completely misapplied by the organization. It is their behavior that should be shunned and avoided.

Agree! Collecting money is acceptable to help the poor and the afflicted, not for the needs of the Administration.

Tons and tons of paper, and now digital content of questionable value. Well, WTJWorg himself is destroying his old spiritual food and rejecting their value. Can we trust the current instructions that will end up in the spiritual graveyard in the future.

Additionally, I read that someone removed the pyramid from Russell's cemetery. WTJWorg owns Russell's grave right? Why was it important to do this? Because it reveals their spiritual origin.

Can the biblical text be completely trusted?

The first Bible was created by the Catholic Church.

Then the Protestants made their own Bible.

Afterwards, WTJWorg intervened and made their own Bible/s (few versions).

And to make everything more interesting, theological minds of different religions have created intricate interpretations and are harassing lost human souls with them day and night. Other souls who are not considered lost, but have found meaning for themselves in one of the interpretations will not fare any better than other people..., For time and chance happen to all.

3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

The organization claims that Russell and Rutherford and other past "leaders" are now immortal spirits in heaven, likely assisting the organization on earth.

Now I understand why WTJWorg has an increasingly confusing theology.., and it's only going to get worse if they all of them in heaven keep arguing over interpretations and who is smarter and greater among them.

4 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

There was no first century "JW Broadcasting".

4 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

to "imitate their faith"

JWTV viewers should ask themselves; Can and should one imitate the faith of a TV preacher? GB has found an excellent way to spread manipulation. They have criticized TV preachers in the past.

TV Evangelism—God’s Way?

If Jesus Christ were on earth today, asserted TV evangelist Jim Bakker, “he’d have to be on TV.” Why television? Because, according to Bakker, “that would be the only way he could reach the people he loves.” Like Bakker, an increasing number of fundamentalist preachers in the United States feel that television is the best medium for spreading the Word of God. Yet, a 1984 study showed that, for the most part, TV evangelists “reinforce people already committed to evangelical religion.”

Interestingly, in a letter to the editor of the magazine Ministry, one reader wrote: “You said they [television sets] are the church’s most powerful gospel seed-sowing tools, and yet God says the most essential work is house-to-house visitation—soul hunting. . . . Our Saviour loved to get away from the multitude, and then He went from house to house—soul hunting. The one-soul audience was His delight. . . . Can we not do the same?”

According to Jesus Christ, the purpose of the Christian ministry was not just to ‘spread the Word’ but to “make disciples.” (Matthew 28:19, 20) He directed his followers to go to people’s homes. (Matthew 10:7, 11-13) The apostle Paul accepted this preaching method and said regarding his ministry: “I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house.” The personalized house-to-house ministry of the disciples reaped good results.—Acts 5:42; 20:20.

If Jesus laid such emphasis on this method of preaching in order to make disciples, why do many evangelists prefer TV as their medium? The Courier-Mail of Brisbane, Australia, notes that TV evangelists “make up to $120 million a year selling salvation. They appear in a blaze of electrified power and glory on 300 TV stations, and are worshipped like pop idols. . . . For all their tactics, these men who claim to manipulate even God, come down in the end to a straight business deal. Send them $10 and they will send you to heaven.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1986845?q=religion+on+tv&p=par  WATCHTOWER 1986

Religion on TV

● “Religious programming has proliferated enormously in the past decade,” reports The Plain Dealer. A two-week survey in 40 U.S. cities turned up 18,845 religious programs broadcast during that period. “These included everything from worship services to game shows, cartoons, variety shows and even soap operas with a religious theme,” says the paper. “Analysis of the programs found that characters were disproportionately male, white and middle-class. Characters who worked for the church were overwhelmingly male; so were the wealthy and the powerful.” Solicitations for money were also common. “During an average hour, viewers are asked to donate or buy products valued at $189.52,” the article states. “Programs featuring a preacher or a revival meeting plead the most; they ask for an average of $328.78 an hour.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101984289 AWAKE 1984

RELIGION GOES “ON THE AIR”

One of the factors limiting attendance at church has been the invention of devices to carry entertainment into the home. Especially true is this of the newest device, television. Of 190 ministers surveyed in the Louisville, Kentucky, area late in 1952, “most agreed that video was serious competition for the church: In 50 congregations, attendance at evening services has dropped 10 per cent.” So, not to be outdone in this progressive age, religion has gone “on the air.”

Jumping at the first opportunity, they opened their “air-borne” assault in 1949, over the Du Mont television network, with the “Morning Chapel” program, featuring leaders of Protestant, Catholic and Jewish faiths. By November of 1953 interest in religious TV was so great that the Lutheran Church’s “This Is the Life” dramatization could lay claim to being “by far the most widely telecast program in the world,” broadcast by approximately 125 American TV stations, shown throughout Canada and regularly featured by the British Broadcasting Corporation. Later, on January 31, this year, Catholic Bishop Fulton J. Sheen’s “Life Is Worth Living” edged out the Lutheran program, tallying up over 169 stations, to gain first place on the networks. The Catholic Herald, of January 8, claimed over 15 million listeners for the bishop. Today, rather than religion’s being on the defensive against secular TV, the reverse is true. Milton Berle, Sid Caesar, Hopalong Cassidy and company have gained a most unusual competitor, the church. -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1954805?q=religion+on+tv&p=par WATCHTOWER 1954

1 minute ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

I'm beginning to think you have no theology. Can you refute Revelation?

Revelation 20:12 New International Version

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

We have two kinds of dead in biblical theology, as I remember. Those who are buried in cemeteries or otherwise. And there are those who are biologically alive, but are considered spiritually dead (by religious leaders and their followers, or by god).

7 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Is it just a JW practice every year?

1 Corinthians 11:24 New International Version

24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

Can you disprove Jesus words were just meant for that night?

Why would Jesus follow up with "do this in remembrance of me" if they had already gone through the last supper?

How many times a year do you or another JW think/meditate about Jesus' ransom?

30 minutes ago, Arauna said:

use your imagination in this case - is that any contract needs two parties.  I one receives Holy spirit by Jehovah to become and anointed, one has to partake of the emblems to close the contract. Then it is a two-sided contract and not just from one side.

Taking the symbol of bread and wine is a JW practice once a year. From your interpretation, it means that they reaffirm the same contract every year. That's a little funny.

32 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Similarly - Jesus died for all humans who ever lived - but if one does not use the ransom to get sins forgiven or do not believe in it - you are not in this arrangement.

How will the dead benefit from the ransom? The dead cannot make decisions. So Jesus needs to resurrect them in order for them to become alive and then make a decision. But this (resurrection) means that the ransom was already applied to them by the very act of resurrection, because all sin is paid for by death already. Ransom is an act of mercy, not of conditioning.

 If the resurrected do not want to accept GB theology then what will become of them?

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

Of course the slave is the one who is providing the " pure language of truth" to the entire earth in 1078 languages. UN has only 6 languages. They teach all the core truths.... such as jehovahs name. 

Jehovah has always used willing imperfect people such as David and Moses. WERE they perfect - NO!  Are MODERNDAY servants imperfect while  doing the will of Jehovah by proclaiming worship of his Him only and his Son as the quarantee of His ultimate purpose of restoring the earth to original purpose? YES. 

That is why the bible (our authority) asks a question in Math 24: 45... and I paraphrase the question..... "Have you identified the slave who gives food at the proper time?"  Have you recognized  that its magazines in 1078 languages is a mouthpiece?... to give food at the proper time.   

A prophet is someone who preaches jehovahs word and brings unpopular messages of judgment.  Soon the modernday slave will act like a prophet and bring the final judgment message to give people the last opportunity to switch from false worship in various religions and worship of government institutions to the only side of protection. Worship of jehovah... the only true God. 

 

What is the behalf, value of spiritual food in 1078 languages when that food is subject to constant changes and contradictions and manipulations to make it look like everything is arranged properly, "to fit" as Mr David Splane said, when it is not.

What nonsense is this when a GB member says, and a WT magazine writes, that Jesus did not promise  perfect food? It shows that at least two. That GB members are pompous clowns, or that they consider their listeners to be mentally narrow people who do not know right from wrong.

How can JW members not see that, in fact, the GB blames Jesus because the spiritual food in 1078 languages, which the GB proudly pronounces, is not perfect, is full of error and is untrustworthy.

13 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

37    A.  That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to
38    say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using.
39    The scriptures clearly show that someone can act in harmony
40    with God's spirit in giving comfort and help in the
41    congregations, but if I could just clarify a little, going
42    back to Matthew 24, clearly, Jesus said that in the last
43    days ‐ and Jehovah's Witnesses believe these are the last
44    days ‐ there would be a slave, a group of persons who would
45    have responsibility to care for the spiritual food. So in
46    that respect, we view ourselves as trying to fulfil that
47   role.

Unfortunately for you, even this extended context doesn't help GB. Here GJ says that, we view ourselves as ...,

GJ did not dare to claim before Judge that Jesus chose and appointed them, but says, in fact, that their own feeling/emotions and theological ideas are the cause of the self-selected role in which they are just one of many who are spokesmen for God.

Any JW who does not see the true state of affairs that is being revealed more and more day by day is living in his own fantasy and cognitive dissonance. Maybe it's not nice to say, but I feel sorry for all of you.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

So you are trying to say that the teachings I mentioned in my comment are only "interpretations|".... when I made sure to only mention those which cad been verified by evidence?

Everything that is written without clear application and/or guidance from the person who wrote it is open to interpretation.

2 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

By whose standards are you referring to?

In order to be able to discern whether what GB is saying and doing is meaningful, it is not necessary to strive for special benchmarks or standards in theological or biblical terms.
Propaganda programs on JWTV and statements of GB members before various secular bodies, along with written texts distributed to the clergy class aka elders and the lay members class aka rank and files members, show that they do not deserve to be trusted.

For example WTJWorg publications and other digital content repeat the litany that they are the only ones to whom God reveals His truth and that they are the only "channel". On the other hand, G. Jackson claims before judge of ARC that they are not the only ones who are God's spokesperson. The double personality of G. Jackson or is it really the true spiritual and mental state of the collective GB as the main ecclesiastical body? 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/file-list/Case%20Study%2029%20-%20Transcript%20-%20Jehovahs%20Witnesses%20-%20Day%20155%20-%2014082015.pdf

35 Q. And do you see yourselves as Jehovah God's

36 spokespeople on earth?

37 A. That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to

38 say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using.

Notice, the lawyer did not ask him if they were the only ones on earth who spoke for God. But the GB anointed himself found it necessary to say just that, they are not the only ones.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

The New Covenant is core teaching

Regardless of whether we would agree on whether something is a core teaching or not, the more important thing is whether a core teaching is correctly explained or is it just a nonsensical interpretation. 

WRJWorg GB has proven many times that it has no basis to call itself a chosen or appointed spokesman of God who distributes spiritual food in the name of God at the right, proper time, while at the same time saying that it is normal to be imperfect and to distribute imperfect (incorrect) spiritual food to people who believe them unconditionally.

19 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

I understand that the 144k and the gb are the only ones under the new covenant?

They are affected by the syndrome of their own greatness and importance. They tend to change theology.

5 minutes ago, Arauna said:

If I use a quote (which happens to be a quote within a quote), it is merely to reply to a thought I had and not to attack an individual.  I am famous for taking a quote where I find it, even if it is within another quote. 

Yes, I know it's your bad habit  

8 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Learn Together

Members of your quorum or class may be struggling to obey some of the commandments. Helping them understand why obedience is important could inspire them. Write the title of this outline on the board, and invite quorum or class members to share answers. You could ask them to look for additional insights in Doctrine and Covenants 82:8–10, which they may have studied this week. Then select one or more of the activities below to help them better understand why it is always important to obey God, even when doing so is hard.

• It can be easier to obey the commandments when we understand the reasons behind them. To learn why God gives us commandments, quorum or class members could review the scripture references in “Supporting Resources” (or others you think of). How can these scriptures help us when we find it hard to obey a commandment? As part of this discussion, you could read together the section titled “Fourth, forget not the ‘why’ of the gospel” in President Dieter F. Uchtdorf’s message “Forget Me Not” (Ensign or Liahona, Nov. 2011, 122).

I see Sir you made copy/paste from this link -  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-aaronic-priesthood-quorums-and-young-women-classes-doctrinal-topics-2021/14?lang=eng

Well, yes, Russell believed that the truth is always the truth, even if Satan said it. Mormons are also people who believe they are telling the truth regardless of not believing the same doctrines as WTJWorg.

This second highlighted sentence, which is bold, is interesting - "It can be easier to obey the commandments when we understand the reasons behind them."  In fact, it is the opposite of GB's claim that they should be trusted and how members have to follow their instructions even if JW members do not understand them.

WTJWorg religion is manipulative.

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

You have not done a "deep" investigation as you should have.

My comment is linked to a link that someone else posted as authoritative. So, the "mistake" is with the other participant in the discussion.

8 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Russell wasn't looking for a religious group to be part of. He was seeking a new approach to scripture that would connect him back to Christ's understanding of scripture. That's why he formed his own new group, the Bible Students.

Did Russell write that somewhere in his diaries, memoirs? 

You claim that he was looking for a new approach in one of the countless "false religions"? Funny.

8 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

People who read the "proclaimers" book will see Russell does not declare Adventism but instead from the zealousness of the Adventist was a good reason for him to reestablish his own faith and understanding with zeal.

Unnecessary and unimportant conclusion. Adventists and Russell are not the only ones who show zeal and still remain in their delusions. And the Pharisees were zealous. Zealots were also zealous and many other groups. JWs are also zealous, so this does not save them from useless and dangerous interpretations and actions. And Paul was a zealous persecutor in one part of his life.

10 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

There are far better history charts out there. How do you know he's telling the truth? Can you prove he is?

The charts he uses to depict religious information are not accurate. Can you prove it's accurate? How about that other person, Srecko.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion

I think people try too hard to make an inaccurate point.

Russell was spiritually/religiously dissatisfied with his affiliation with his parents' religion. And he wandered around looking for a religious group that would accommodate his wanderings. This is also discussed in the WTJWorg publication "Proclaimers", which does not hide his connection with Adventism, and others theologies, and the influences they had on him.

The link you posted here as more credible than the video at the beginning posted by Libranian does not satisfy the WTJWorg theology you are promoting. Timeline of religion says that people/mankind are older than 7000 years. (100,000 BC: Earliest known human burial in the Middle East). This contradicts the GB teaching that God created the first man a little over 7000 years ago.
Who do you want us to believe?

1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

"Who is blind except my servant, 

So deaf as the messenger I send?  

Who is so blind as the one rewarded, 

So blind as the servant of Jehovah?"

 

(Isaiah 42:19)

That Jewish God is unusual and unpredictable at times.  ..., Jewish people too.

1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

"And he took the blind man by the hand...he laid his hands on him and asked him: “Do you see anything?”  The man looked up and said: “I see people, but they look like trees walking about.”  Again he laid his hands on the man’s eyes, and the man saw clearly. His sight was restored, and he could see everything distinctly."

 

(Mark 8:23-25)

It is not always possible to find the right diopter on the first try.  

9 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Sir, perhaps you should start a new topic if you want to make your point a debate. This topic is about someone's perception of religion through history.

The perception of the author of the video is that the JW religion originated from the Adventist movement. JWs consider Adventism to be a "false religion." But that is just the perception of JW members.

The author of the video, if I listened correctly, does not claim which religion is false and which is true. You Sir set your perception that Russell was under the influence of a "false religion" until YHVH "enlightened" his mind to found a new religion which has since become "the only true one", according to the perception of JW members of course.

The comment you made includes your perception. You answered my questions according to your perception, too. Why should I open a new topic?

Another comment about "forbidding" and "allowing" Russell to see the truth. JWs have a doctrine where they claim that YHVH "allows" all evil to happen. According to this thesis, it was God, not "false religion", that made it possible for Russell not to see "the truth". In his spiritual darkness, Russell rebelled against the established religious system. But this does not mean that all the roots of "false religion" have been cut off.
By the same or a similar method, Rutherford made changes after Russell, but just like his predecessor he created new "false truths". How would Rutherford's successors be different?

The thesis that YHVH allows darkness, even over WTJWorg, is still valid, right?