Srecko Sostar

38 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

(Genesis 3:22) 22 Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.

Yes, good evidence/proof that there is only "one law" (moral code or sense for justice) for angels and human.

8 hours ago, Thinking said:

I never said special laws I said different laws….one law ( applied to mankind ) when disobeyed  resulted in death that would be considered the first death for mankind …there was hope of recovery from that death due to Jesus ransom.

No word problems. I agree that we can find a terminological and practical difference in - a different law and a special law. But I would like to continue commenting on "different" laws.

There is even a difference between the law for Adam and Eve and the law for their offspring regarding sin. Adam and Eve sinned (disobedience to God) and according to the WTJWorg interpretation have no cover through Jesus ’sacrifice.
People after them commit the same kind of sin but have cover through Jesus ’ransom. Thus, the application of the “same law” is applied differently with respect to offenders and their circumstances. It is certainly an interesting legal moment.

45 minutes ago, Arauna said:

not a predator which has eyes which look straight ahead at its prey.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Glad to see you possess common sense.

It was just a moment of weakness. :)))

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Angels took human form when they needed to speak directly to someone, like Abraham, Lot, etc. Genesis 18:2

Yes, but a burning bush, a donkey, a voice from heaven do not support the claim/view as sort of rule.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Also, man cannot transform to an angel.

JWs who say that they  are part of 144000 believe they will be sort of spiritual creatures similar to angels but much higher in position. Sort of transformation from human to angels?

14 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Does it make sense? All creation is under the same laws, since God made those commandments and laws. Satan was punished for his disobedience and free will. The legion of demons had their offspring punished by disobeying God. Those Nephilim had angelic spirit in them. That's why they were so strong. Humanity was punished for their disobedience and wickedness. A sentence that came directly from God.

What part of that misrepresentation of scripture makes sense to you? What part of Matthew 6:10 doesn't register?

Well, of course, Thinking's thesis about a special law for angels, and a special one for people, is not probable. Because both types of creatures have free will,  and they interact with each other according to Bible text. 

It is this/those characteristic that connects them more than anything else (life form, place of life and abilities) separates them.

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

Ezekiel

I don’t understand how a prophetic book can explain legislative topics. Ezekiel is a book that contains visions, prophecies, and hopes for the restoration of worship of God, according to your publication: TEACHING BOX 1B An Overview of Ezekiel

7 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

there is only one universe or else the ranson would need to be repeated over and over again this is common sense,a rare thing around here

 

@Thinking mentions two separate laws in the universe. One for angels in heaven, the other for people on this planet.
If we go this way of thinking, then the logic of one sacrifice of Christ for the whole Universe should not be the final thesis. God can create various forms of life according to different criteria or laws of existence and interaction.
Well on the this planet itself there is a visible difference about different laws in one place. God gave to  animal species to devour each other, even within the same species. It is a "law" for them. But we do not see that it is permissible for a man to eat a man.

If the existence of different laws is present on only one planet, why should we be limited by the idea of one Universal Sacrifice that arose because of one situation on Earth?
In addition, if there is another civilization that was created by the creative act of one and the same Creator, this Earth civilization does not know about the other and vice versa, so the idea of applying Christ's sacrifice for unknown civilization somewhere in space is unclear.

If another civilization was created with a different (or even same) intention, purpose or idea of the Creator, I don't see sense in the universality of Christ’s sacrifice. Jesus came on this planet for this humankind for one act of Adam and Eve in the past. 

8 hours ago, Thinking said:

They ….man and angels are under two different laws…man is under the laws of the earthly kind…their home is the earth.

Angels are under the spiritual  laws for spiritual beings..their home is the heavens.

Maybe it makes sense. But then we wonder, if some action is a sin in one group?.... and the same action in another group is not a sin?

What two different laws are you actually talking about? Where does the Bible list them?

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

Why do you keep using the medieval English? Is it because it fulfills an alternate purpose?  The saints are today called the anointed. 

Although it was not my intention when using the word "saints" (holy ones), one of Dmitri's comments encouraged me (inspired :))) to comment further now.

“Saints” have come to this status in the past through anointing with/by the Spirit. Today’s “anointed” come to their status as they take symbols of bread and wine.

And some others sort of "anointed" people (elders) in WTJWorg are set/install by GB.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Unfortunately, that does not apply to God. 

NIV Luke 4:12

12 Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.
 

So, if a lightening bolt strikes you, you only have yourself to blame. 😉

I thought it (this verse) was about if you wanted to jump from 100 meters and tell God, now save me if you're powerful.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Glad you can distinguish, between good and evil. However, at what point do you believe God applied his spirit to evil? 

It seems to me that this could be related to the idea that "God allows evil". If he allows it to happen everywhere and towards everyone and from everyone then it might be clear to you why caution is in place. 

8 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Off course…but I have a feeling you may be taking this scripture out of context…correct me if I’m wrong ..

Dear Thinking, if this is the case with me then in my defense I can say that I am neither the first nor the last to whom this has happened. And, smarter heads than mine made far bigger misinterpretations. 

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

For someone who claims to read the Bible

Please define what the phrase "reading the Bible" means to you in the context of the name Srećko? In what way do I claim, “I read the Bible”?

I don’t read the Bible every day, or occasionally. When I refer to a biblical passage or report I do so from memory or go to a book or google to see where it is and what it says.

So your claim, that I claim to be reading the Bible, is not provable, it is just your opinion.  

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Once again, you challenge God.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God,... - 1 John 4:1

God is spirit, demons are spirits, WTJWorg are spirit guided organization, Bible is inspired by spirit, human also have spirit. All of this numbered are connected to "spirit".

What is wrong to put all sorts of this spirits to challenge, to test? 

3 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Wow! You've been hanging around here too long. Go back to basics and relearn scripture.

NIV Acts 6:1-5

 

6 In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. 2 So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. 3 Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word."

5 This proposal pleased the whole group.

 

 

It is reminiscent of Russell's time, when assemblies elected their own elders. I have nothing against it.

20 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Like I said, I don't bother with such misrepresentations of scripture. You should know by now, I call out "all" false assertions coming from either, JWs, ExJWs and none JWs.

That's fine with me. We disagree on many things, but I appreciate your intention.

23 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Don't you read the hilarious comments about me by @Thinking, @TrueTomHarley and others, that want me banned?  They can't stand a person telling the truth, here. Where were you when @Space Merchant made a bad mistake by, calling me misguided where he was set in his place, even though he thinks he won a factitious debate.

Yes I saw the comments. Prohibition is nonsense. If I see you driving drunk then you should definitely be banned from driving.

SM? Ahhh. I was here. Do you/what you expected from me to do about that?

2 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

“Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?” 1 Corinthians 6:1

And of course we know, once God anoints someone as a saint “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians. 3:28

Here's how I see the content of the quotes you cited.

The trial should be conducted only by "saints".

Are there enough "saints"? Who declares someone as "saint"? Is there a numerical limit to the number of people who can be “saints”?
WTJWorg has doctrines, with which it would be difficult to solve these dilemmas.

It is hypocritical of the Organization that male “saints” have the right to act as “kings and priests” already today, in a world where the Kingdom of Christ does not rule. Admittedly, WTJWorg believes that the Kingdom still rules over the Earth through the Organization. If so then female “saints” should have the same role as their male counterparts. Or maybe the solution is to change gender/sex to male with the help of surgery?

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Romans: But God recommends his own love to us* in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

To be imperfect is to be sinful.  All men fall short of the glory of god. Romans 3:23 ( we are all sinners or "imperfect" in more tolerable terms.)  To be a sinner means to "miss the mark" of perfection. 

I think we all understand these words. It is narcissistic to create a gorge over words....  that is a saying in my language.

So we have a scenario like this:

Adam and Eve are perfect. Angel xy is perfect.
Adam and Eve sinned (as perfect individuals) and were punished for slowly aging, getting sick, and dying.
Angel xy sins (as perfect individual) but does not punished to grow old, does not get sick and does not die.

What's this all about?

-Are there two or more kinds of "perfection"?
-Isn't the punishment for sin death?
-Does the Bible promote the postponement of the death penalty for sin?
-In both cases, is it not disobedience that should be punished by death?
-Why didn't Moses get the inspiration to tell us in writing whether God warned / informed the angels during the creation of the angels that they would be punished by death or that there might not be such punishments for them?

In the Bible, God has written that the impunity of the guilty causes the guilty to continue to do evil and that evil will therefore spread more easily and quickly and prevail over the good.

What message did God send to men, and what to angels when God immediately expelled the first people from Paradise and left Satan in his Perfect Family in heaven?

15 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Oh! Taken out of the ARC playbook, how quaint! But, I guess you missed the point; that hypocritical court was implying, they want the Watchtower to give women the authority of an Elder to "interrogate" the children or women, themselves. 

In other words, the ARC is suggesting the Watchtower go against God's inspired word in those situations. Funny, when it comes to the Australian government policing themselves by making whistleblowing a crime, such as it did with their immigration detention centers, the ARC court had no problem with it. 😏

I don’t understand why you oppose the idea of women (JW women) participating in the survey and judicial process?
WTJWorg tries to retain the right of men to be spiritual leaders and to govern the Words of the Bible based on some biblical passages.

But on the basis of which biblical passages can women be forbidden to participate in investigative / forensic and judicial proceedings when it comes to CRIME? Or is it about SPIRITUAL CRIME when it comes to CSA and other abuses? Absurdity.

16 hours ago, Dmitar said:

16 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I do not believe that women should be 'leaders' in a True Christian congregation. 

No, but you do promote there should be no leaders, or that everyone should be their own leader, like @Witness? Just like she confuses the word "oneness" so do you. 😏

So isn't SM promoting the same/similar, because from what he has written about himself so far, it could be concluded that his non-belonging to the "church" expresses independence from any established religious system. He advocates exclusivity for the Order based on Scripture. But he excludes his affiliation with the church/churches. Although every (christian) church is called to exist on the foundations of the Order of the Bible (Christian Order)

16 hours ago, Dmitar said:

On 3/25/2022 at 1:34 PM, Space Merchant said:

It isn't that hard. But the main thing is the idea is to assume all Unitarians are the same.

Agree, however, in our institution, there is no such thing. Unity in Christ is appliable by Christ instruction and God's command. Therefore, there are no divisions or different churches among our ranks.

You seem to have shown SM what is, how it looks and where he can find the true and real Christian Order.  

On 3/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, Arauna said:

Humans have perfection to the degree that they can perfectly accomplish the purpose and morals as instructed by Jehovah.  Without Him they are following their own ideas and can become fallible.  Only Jehovah has absolute perfection which is infallible. 

I’m glad you’re talking about the perfection of people who are “imperfect”.

Interestingly, the word “imperfect,” as far as I have seen, is not found in the Bible at all. But we can find the term “perfect” that binds not only to God but also applies to humans.

Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete (perfect), go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” - Mat 19:21

Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. - Mat 5:48

And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. - James 1:4

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. - Heb 10:14

All these being men of war, who could order the battle array, came with a perfect heart to Hebron, to make David king over all Israel: and all the rest also of Israel were of one heart to make David king. - 1. Chronicles 12:38

With the merciful you will show yourself merciful. With the perfect man you will show yourself perfect. - 2. Samuel 22:26

God is my strong fortress. He makes my way perfect. - 2. Samuel 22:23

etc.

We need to start dealing with different terminological terms when describing and analyzing our own and others ’actions/words. We must stop claiming that we know the difference between a perfect man and an imperfect man.
If we are imperfect as we are, on what basis do we know what is like and what is the difference from the perfect? Based on speculation and interpretation, obviously.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

They do have our trust because they are honest and do their best for us. 

One should always appreciate and believe in the honesty and integrity of other people. It is commendable that JW have faith that GB wants to be fair and honest. Other people outside the JW community need to be able to understand that JW members want to trust their leaders and consider them honest. It is a good quality in any interpersonal relationship that enables success.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

So yes.... the organization is not your idea of perfection ...... but God never gave an indication that it would be perfect.

I think the problem is in withdrawing the thesis that equates (human) perfection with infallibility. It's not quite the same.

The best examples of this are Adam and Eve. Perfect people, but that didn't save them from making a fatal mistake. 

Invoking imperfection, over and over again when something is said and done wrong, becomes meaningless because the state of "imperfection" becomes a tool to justify and excuse one's own inability to do something with the least bad consequences.
GB uses such a tool to justify his own misguided guidelines that they worked for in the name of God. Therein lies their guilt.

If they had said clearly and loudly that they have an opinion and belief about a doctrine that is such because it seems to them most accurate, then they could rightly invoke imperfection, so they were mistaken. But when they claim that doctrines are the only and unique truth because they come from God, then all subsequent wisdom, they later show, makes no sense.

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Does this mean, those that apply scripture in their lives aren't heavenly directed, spiritual, or inspired?

It is with such things that GB juggles.

They claim how they are not inspired by spirit and they are not infallible but they are guided by the spirit, ............. so it is a guarantee that they can be given complete trust.

:))

13 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Granted you are not clear of which Unitarian you are referring to.

This is completely irrelevant to me, regarding what is important to me given the comment made.

What kind/sort of Unitarian you are or to what denomination you belong or not belong, that is important only to you dear SM. 

3 hours ago, Witness said:

For a man who does not claim to be joined to one established, concrete religion, but uses the term “religious office”, tells me you are under the influence of the world of established religion.  Somehow, you have decided you are a Preacher by perhaps your own labeling; or, did others give you that label?  But how could they, if you are not part of an earthly organized church?  Nonetheless, dear SM, your concept of religion under Jesus Christ, is not according to the spirit of God, but of the world.  The two, cannot be mixed.

Excellent observation!

SM  so strongly advocates a specific Christian Order, but is not prepared to act within the specific Order of the Unitarian Church or here within the Order of JW Church. Both churches are Christian churches.

 Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?

Space Merchant replied to Patiently waiting for Truth's topic in Jehovah’s Witnesses's Topics