Srecko Sostar

11 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

It is no claim, it is fact.

How will you prove the fact?

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Rebellious Angels are indeed active.

25 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

7 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

If we have a “sinful nature” then the influence of evil angels is in the background. They are not the cause of our evil actions.

SM claim demons are active. What are the proportions/ratio, between/of our nature and their evil presence, when we as people doing bad things?

2 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Then you never understood the Watchtower Literature or the bible. What you are saying, God "guided" the apostles even though they received the spirit of God to heal and raise the dead. To a Christian, those abilities are more than guidance. Therefore, a Christian will understand the difference between, direct and indirect.

Well I understand the difference that WTJWorg presents. By the 1st century some people could be “inspired” by God. After the 1st century, no one is “inspired” anymore. 

This is what WTJWorg teach. Today GB say how they and no single JW are "inspired" but only "guided". 

10 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Therefore, you believe the Watchtower is conveying, god's Holy Spirit stopped after the first century, is this correct? Can you give me an example of this?

I have nothing to believe or disbelieve. WTJWorg claims they are not “inspired”, but only "guided".

The conclusion is that GB believes that the “gifts of the spirit” that arose under “inspiration” ceased in the 1st century. 

They do not claim that the "fruits of the spirit" are created under "inspiration", but that they develop with the effort of the individual through keeping the principles and reading the Bible and praying to God.

 There are different kinds of gifts. But they are all given to believers by the same Spirit.  There are different ways to serve. But they all come from the same Lord.  There are different ways the Spirit works. But the same God is working in all these ways and in all people.

⁷ The Holy Spirit is given to each of us in a special way. That is for the good of all.  To some people the Spirit gives a message of wisdom. To others the same Spirit gives a message of knowledge.  To others the same Spirit gives faith. To others that one Spirit gives gifts of healing.  To others he gives the power to do miracles. To others he gives the ability to prophesy. To others he gives the ability to tell the spirits apart. To others he gives the ability to speak in different kinds of languages they had not known before. And to still others he gives the ability to explain what was said in those languages. All the gifts are produced by one and the same Spirit. He gives gifts to each person, just as he decides. - 1. Cor 12

From this it can be concluded that HS determines what it will give to whom in form of "gifts". There are no such limits to the "fruits of the spirit", but everyone in congregation is called to overcome sinful desires replaced by "fruits".

"Gifts" are  something we received.

"Fruits" are something we achieved.

21 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

You are asking me or @Dmitar? If me, Rebellious Angels are indeed active. As they were in the past, even present day.

Both in fact.  

Are you suggesting that "good" angels do not communicate with people, but that only "evil" ones are allowed to "approach" people and seduce them?

1 minute ago, Dmitar said:

How does a person receive God's Holy Spirit?

If we are going to rely on WTJWorg theology, then man cannot "receive" HS, but only be "guided" or "motivated" to do / speak something (or be stopped from doing / saying something).
The effect ( to be guided/motivated) is achieved, as far as I understand the interpretation of WTJWorg, after the individual reads the Bible a lot, strives to work according to biblical principles and prays to God for help.

"Receiving" gives the impression that we have come into possession of something because we have received it from someone. But to receive HS includes the active side of the Giver, and that would be God. However, as WTJWorg teaches, this kind of "receiving" ended in the First Century. 

Every “receiving” of HS from God includes, according to the Bible as far as I remember, supernatural action and a supernatural manifestation that is, in fact, visible to humans.
There is nothing supernatural about reading the Bible, praying to God, and trying to apply certain principles in one's life.
There is nothing supernatural in the WTJWorg doctrines or in the JW's virtual worship in the past two years.

27 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

11 hours ago, Dmitar said:

People overreach with their assumptions about the phrase supernatural. The angels are in heaven. Anything they do is supernatural. If God sends an angel to earth as a messenger, that's supernatural, but in a good and positive way. 

Which is true, but then you have Rebellious Angels who do the opposite, moreover, such pose as God's Messengers, which is why Paul's words in Galatians is one of which that provides counsel.

Are you talking about the past? And what is the range of that past (BCE to CE) when angels came to earth as messengers?
If you are talking about the present, are you claiming that angels are transmitting news to people today? 

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

“Plans against NATO” could mean anything.

Their fight against NATO did not start with Ukraine, of course. The rivalry between the two blocs is permanent and inevitable. It took place under variable names (at least in the case of the USSR-Russia).

Igor Kalabukhov, the Russian ambassador to Bosnia and Herzegovina, was a guest on Face TV on Friday:

In 21:19 he said - How do you know we have no plans against Poland, against Croatia, against Bulgaria? .... We have plans against NATO.

5 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

This would be a good reason to leave translation to scholars and people with excellent bible knowledge, not someone trying to interpret someone else's interpretation. This is why linguist is important.

On what basis do biblical scholars explain religious concepts? Based on the text, I guess. Or based on their personal spiritual feeling? Who should give the text to the scholars? Translators and linguists, I guess.  Historians and archaeologists could provide additional information about people and events from the time when the events in the text took place.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Do you think @Witness knows Greek and other languages to give a proof positive on translation? 

If there are translations that translate some things (very) differently, then the problem is where? In translation teams? Or in readers and interpreters?

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The irony is my rival made this parallel comment, but in regards to Bible Translation.

And she is right, seems to me.

14 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

My interest was twofold, one for the visitor,

And what do the visitors say, what are their impressions of this club?

15 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

These fools here are nothing like that.

So what am I? Fool? Apostate? Stupid Apostate? :)))

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Grenland....., and Canada is also in play. 

Do you seriously believe those two are superpowers?

I am confused with your logic. Where in the Bible does it say that NK and SK must be/have to be/will be "superpowers"?

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Now, my brothers would be disgusted by these Jehovah's Witnesses here.

Will they be disgusted with the knowledge that you are participating here?

57 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Since the foolishness is coming from former and present Jehovah's Witnesses, how about you not twist the narrative, and you express your thought on, who you believe spiritual Israel is to the visitor?

Some of the participants here are not satisfied with the thoughts and opinions of others, but are looking for logic and evidence only. I'm afraid I don't have any of what is required.  

54 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

That ignorance was brought out here as a topic. The Watchtower just like any other religion makes points of interest to people that like to understand scripture.

I almost agree, WTJWorg is just one of many paths to God  

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

19 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Who's on the upper northern quadrant, Russia or the USA?

Grenland....., and Canada is also in play. 

4 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

We are talking about the equation of sin, or have you moved on to something else? A person without knowledge as opposed to one that received God's Holy Spirit, then vomited that spirit out?

What kind of spiritual maturity do you think a person, without bible knowledge, possesses? Remember, this ideology also ties in to the book of Revelation.

We started by asking; how you treat pagans and tax collectors? We didn't get an answer from you. That's how we got here.

3 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

How is righteousness and unrighteousness, knowledge. You would need an action on behavior in order to achieve either goal.

4 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

God's interest is salvation.

Well isn't that connected?. God wants to save both the righteous and the unrighteous. So in the name of that, he promises the resurrection of both. It has nothing to do with knowledge and intelligence....according to literal words in Bible.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

You are the one equating JW Elders to God.

Apologize, not me, but Shepherd book does and other WT articles, persuade elders to be assessors of how "strong" one’s repentance is and whether it is "sufficient" given the "gravity" of sin.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Who's on the upper northern quadrant, Russia or the USA?

In relation to whom or to what ???

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

but the Watchtower has gone from explaining it through complexities, to simplifying it.

If so then there is nothing to discuss about any idea or fiction who could be NK and SK. Or we can continue to discuss about WTJWorg speculative imagination.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

For they have always taught the Witnesses that the north and the south are viewed in relation to the biblical kingdom of Israel.

Now dig a little deeper into your brain and figure out where is spiritual Israel?

Define who spiritual Israel is for you today. After that perhaps i could comment.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

No! You are reversing it. How can you treat a person without knowledge the same as a person with knowledge?

 

 

:))) 

God gave example and advice how.....somewhere in the Bible. 

But He was not speaking about them in relation/quality on knowledge but as righteous and unrighteous people. 

Obviously God is not interested into someone’s knowledge, but more or even only whether one's heart strives for justice or injustice. 

It surprises me that your level of wisdom ignores/neglects this.  

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Before I suggest you get your eyes checked, can you explain this contradictory statement?

Anyone seeing a flat map might consider Russia is in the upper north quadrant, and if they want to get technical, they might even propose NW. So, are you suggesting NE and NW as a round globe view?

As far as can be seen both countries are in the northern hemisphere. So there is no north and no south in their relationship with each other.
And the relationship should be viewed in a literal physical and geographical sense according to WTJWorg interpretations of the biblical books. For they have always taught the Witnesses that the north and the south are viewed in relation to the biblical kingdom of Israel.
If we went behind the map then Russia would be west and the USA east, or?

35 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You are saying Jehovah is meaningless by calling the rival kings  of the Greek period KON and KOS?

Sorry no, I didn't say that. Because YHVH did not write anywhere that Russia and the United States are in question. This was stated by interpreters several centuries later after the Bible was already completed in writing.

19 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Like a former member that lost their way, just like a tax collector or Pagan without repentance. You seem to forget, Paul was a tax collector. Yet, he repented.

Should this mean that the JW member should be acquainted with the spiritual condition of the pagan or tax collector and only on that basis decide how to treat him?
What kind of repentance is provided for the pagan and the tax collector to please the JW elder or the ordinary JW?
What should be the difference in the type and intensity of repentance between one who is a sinful Gentile compared to a sinful JW?

What has been meaningless for decades is calling Russia the King of the North and the United States the King of the South. First of all, Russia is east of America, and America is west of Russia. So much for literal and symbolic geography. 

Or do you think that God sees it from heaven, so that the sides of the world are arranged differently for Him?