Srecko Sostar

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Actually, no! There are two separate issues. How, can you equate the nonsense of former JWs made up stance on biblical prophecy? You have the same failed argument of @JW Insider. He surmises, the only way to believe is to have the mysteries "specifically" written in the bible. I.E., 2520 has to be specifically written in scripture. Or 2 instances of 1260 specifically mentioned to equal 2520. If not, then it's only 1 time of 1260. Therefore, no prophecy. Forget the rest of the evidence. Since, those mysteries were meant for a chosen few, Why would scripture identify it as a mystery? Stellar minds. @TrueTomHarley should be proud! He's in the company of extraordinary geniuses. Superheroes of the Watchtower. 😏

Therefore, by definition, those two are separate.

Take for example one of the most important doctrines; The last days began in 1914. Jesus ’return is tied to 1914 because there was a war in heaven against Satan. It is a doctrine, derived from several "mysteries" contained in biblical passages about; 2520 days, 1260 days, day for year, seven times and the like, and  built with the help of "stellar minds".

Doctrine/s emerges from the "mystery" explained by some people. From the doctrine arises the "prophecy" foretold by Armageddon in this or that year, this or that period of time. How did the "overlapping generation" doctrine come about? In a similar way. What does the doctrinal interpretation of “generation” predict? Same again, Armageddon. 

Two "separate" things can't stay alive without each other..... in WTJWorg World.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Now, those "failed doctrines" you speak of, are they the "false predictions" that are labeled by former JWs such as yourself?

Your comment is not so bad. There is something to discuss. But do not forget that predictions, past and present, are based on a doctrinal understanding of biblical quotations. Interpretation derives from belief. Belief produces teaching and doctrine. Doctrine is the basis for prediction.

57 minutes ago, Thinking said:

That’s one thing that has amazed me as I have developed friends from all over the world since internet and how even in the truth something can be a issue in one place and not even be mentioned in another place…at first it was hard to grasp but then it helped me understand the diversity amongst us…it was a issue over here..but seems not in other places…

The notion of unity and uniformity has unusual consequences for JW members.

The interpretations of one group of elders in one congregation may differ significantly from another congregation in the same city.

This was often seen in the summer months around the insistence that speakers wear a jacket while speaking point. Well then if he can without a jacket, does the shirt have to have long sleeves or can he with short ones and the like. The absurdities of spiritual maturity in the JW brothers come to the fore.

Well then for example, can an assembly trip be organized or not. Some elders allowed it, and some were against it.

In the former Yugoslavia, we were often amazed by the directives from America, because there is HQ. Because the JW brothers on the old continent in a communist country did not have such a mindset as their “capitalist brothers”. :))

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That situation could be equated to something like that of a game of Telephone. Whereas something is said and down the line, caused some form of division and confusion. So someone who was excited must have said some things that got other people talking whereas others understood the context of what is said and did not partake in spreading what the others were doing, hence the notation of 1975. Plus times in the 70s were different, to the point people do literal action after some things were said, as is excitement of somethings which could lean to action.

That “broken phone” game has a bunch of written text. So, your argument and illustration is meaningless.

Are you trying to say that people today are less prone to naivety than in the 1970s? And that today’s JWs think more with their head than their predecessors, so they’re more careful and don’t listen to GB enough? Today’s JWs have a unique circumstance compared to their 1970s predecessors, and that is; more information about WTJWorg. And an increasingly rich history (and present) of failed doctrines.

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I do not rely on opinions, only facts. The True Church is the Apostolic Church, hence those who strive to follow that path.

Ah, I understand now. :)) Since no religion today bears the title the Apostolic Church, not even WTJWorg because they call themselves JW, that means there is no one true church today. According to you, the Biblical Unitarian is not true either because they are called BU and not AC.

I get it now this too. It is important to strive to follow (even in wrong way and with plenty of errors) to be true church. :))

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

He interviewed a Unitarian Universalist, not a Biblical Unitarian.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, this is like 100% equating Jehovah's Witnesses to Seventh Day Adventist, and or Islam. To mix things up, makes no sense, unless one does so to cause confuse or weaponize misinformation.

UU, BU, JW and SDA. What, who they are? They all claim how they are Christians who have trust, who believe in one book, Bible. 

Who confusing who by claiming such thing?

Are you willing to admit that they are all Christians or not? Just some of them or just one group? Which group of the above is a true Christian group, in your opinion?

You somehow "boast" with claim how you are BU and not UU and as such, i suppose, "better" than UU. "Better" in sense -closer to truth or completely in the truth? Of what value is that to me? Of no value. That claim can just be of some value to you. To me and other here, that only can mean to have information what is your "religious ID".  

Those videos just showed how people are disunited. And that no group and no individual has a monopoly on "the truth".

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Do you hear of any Bible Student Association members in your area?

No, I don't.

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

What church is the most prominent in your area?

Roman Catholic.

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Also your video is a bit misleading to the information

Watch SM.  

A) I am not the author of this video so I am not misleading anyone. It can only be the author of a video who explaining his faith to the public and causes your anxiety.
B) Fact is, there is no single religion on this Earth that is not the cause of delusions and deviations and misleadings.

3 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Biblical Unitarian.

Factionalist? And this pertains to what?

This is interesting video to see how people "of your kind" also are separated from "the truth" and belong to "denominations" inside "same" faith. He speaking about individual various ways for person in searching for truth.

Unitarian and Universalist merged together.  Unitarian Universalism was formed from the consolidation in 1961 of two historically separate Christian denominations, the Universalist Church of America and the American Unitarian Association, both based in the United States; the new organization formed in this merger was the Unitarian Universalist Association.

13 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, at the end he made it clear of the different Unitarians out there.

Which one (Unitarian) are you? True, false, original, modified, factionalist ...?

22 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

God and the Holy Spirit are separate, for the Spirit isn't a literal being.

 I do not understand. I don't think JW understands you either. So I ask: How is God separated from his spirit? 

Do you have your spirit? And are you separated from your spirit?

I am not separated from my spirit. My spirit and I are one. I am also not detached from my intellect and mind. :))

Biblical Unitarians, according to this gentleman in video, believe that Jesus will come again on earth to fight against enemy and judge mankind.

Also they believe how Holy Spirit (different from holy spirit as he wrote) is only one of many names that God have. If I understand his speech, Holy Spirit is God's name (because He have many names) and holy spirit is His attribute, a trait He gives to people (when creating he gave a part of his personality to human or He give holy spirit in exceptional events)

This is different and opposite of JW's doctrines as I see. How you explain this difference between your "religion" and JW's religion?

11 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

That's a shame. I guess in your area, COVID-19 is still high. Soon! 

Just before the start of the war in Ukraine covid began to decline. Maybe because of the nicer weather and the tourist pre-season. But the war raised new fears about everything.

JWs don’t stand on the street here, they don’t go from house to house and they don’t have live meetings.

3 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Have you noticed any door to door preaching work resume in your area?

No!

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I am a Biblical Unitarian Christian yes, however I am not of the Unitarian Church.

I have nothing against it.

It means that you are a kind of individual who does not want to be part of an organized religion, under any name. So why are you trying so hard to defend a WTJWorg that doesn’t allow that kind of individualism to its followers?

Do your like-minded people consider you an "apostate" because you are not part of their church? Have you ever belonged to that church? And if you are, why did you come out of it?

55 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Aside from that any Truther that shifts, there is a term we have for such ones.

Apostate? 

57 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

On the contrary, we are against conspiracy.

Definition of truther

A) one who believes that the truth about an important subject or event is being concealed from the public by a powerful conspiracy 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/truther

B) someone who does not believe the generally accepted explanation for an event or situation and thinks it is the result of a secret plan made by powerful people

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/truther

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

All of us need to be not only enduring, but vigilant, even JWs, for last I told them, they, and their EXJW counterparts, can break under enough pressure.

Everything is subject to breaking. In one way or another.

4 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Has the preaching work stopped?

If it is true that "true Christians" go from house to house, literally, with good news, then yes, your work is stopped.

According to quotes bellow GB lead a double game. They can't be trusted.

Can you be trusted?  

However, it is only among Jehovah’s Witnesses that virtually all, young and old, male and female, participate year in, year out, in the house-to-house ministry. It is only Jehovah’s Witnesses who truly endeavor to reach all the inhabited earth with the Kingdom message, in obedience to the prophetic command at Matthew 24:14.

Because of the effectiveness of the house-to-house ministry, opposers in many lands have tried to stop it. In order to gain official respect for their right to preach from door to door, Jehovah’s Witnesses have appealed to government officials. Where necessary, they have gone to court in order to legally establish the right to spread the good news in this manner. (Phil. 1:7) And where repressive governments have persisted in forbidding such activity, Jehovah’s Witnesses have at times simply done it in a less conspicuous manner or, if necessary, used other means to reach people with the Kingdom message.

Although radio and television broadcasts have been used to spread the Kingdom message, Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that the personal contact made possible by house-to-house calls is far more effective. It affords better opportunity to answer the questions of individual householders and to search out deserving ones. (Matt. 10:11) That is one of the reasons why, in 1957, the Watch Tower Society sold radio station WBBR in New York.

- https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Proclaimers-of-Gods-Kingdom/Kingdom-Preaching-Furthered-by-Production-of-Bible-Literature/Preaching-Publicly-and-From-House-to-House/

 Web Sites of “Jehovah’s Witnesses”: Consider, for example, some Internet sites set up by individuals who claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses. They invite you to visit their sites to read experiences posted by others who claim to be Witnesses. You are encouraged to share your thoughts and views about the Society’s literature. Some give recommendations about presentations that could be used in the field ministry. These sites offer chat rooms for individuals to connect to, allowing live communication with others, similar to talking on the telephone. They often point you to other sites where you can have on-line association with Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world. But can you tell for certain that these contacts have not been planted by apostates?

¹¹ Having association via the Internet may not be consistent with the recommendation found at Ephesians 5:15-17. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/201999403

5 hours ago, Thinking said:

As you well know The GB made that decision

5 hours ago, Dmitar said:

By the recommendation and insistence of the United States Government.

You provided two interesting answers. Somehow they are opposed.

If the GB gave that command to stop preaching, does that instruction fall within what was announced in the WT magazines, that "God's organization will give saving instructions that will not be reasonable from a human point of view"?

On the other hand, if this order came from secular authority, could it not be interpreted as a trap of Satan carrying out his will through the rulers of this world and as an attempt to stop the global work of preaching in its basic form?

I have a simple question; Who in the United States banned house-to-house preaching for JW? Who told JW not to go from house to house? 

5 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Jehovah's Witnesses shouldn't display this kind of interest. It would make them part of this world. However, Jehovah’s Witnesses here are not considered real Jehovah Witnesses. Therefore, their agenda has nothing to do with the Watchtower and God's word.

The situation you are talking about is interesting. 

Drawing the conclusion that JW's should not show interest in politics (in all connotations of the term) and world events that arise precisely from the sum of different policies that bring these or those results to societies in general, is somewhat accurate. Namely, WTJWorg has a strange approach to the “secular” society around it. The organization considers them "enemies", so the so-called "disinterest" in political events is encouraged and imposed.....to even the exclusion of a member.

Such an attitude is not only strange, but also contrary to some biblical notions of the life of “Christians” in the world. Namely, "Christians" are called to follow world events and try to determine where they are with regard to "prophecies". Even WT magazine talks about the purpose of publishing in the introduction. And that is to observe events in the world. What events? When the sun rises and when the sun sets? Or what do the animals at the zoo eat? The Watchtower shows us the significance of world events in the light of Bible prophecies. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/

Furthermore, “Christians” are called to pray for “secular leaders”. They used to be mostly kings, and today they are mostly presidents. And presidents are politicians.
So now I ask you how should JWs not be interested in “politics” while at the same time praying for and writing letters to, “secular rulers”?

Third, Old Jew Nation, it was a "theocratic monarchy" with a king who pursued politics of all kinds. He even fought wars. Were the Israelis "uninterested" in the politics of their nobility, and surrounded nations?

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

neither of these two dates has anything to do with when the year 2023 begins. That will always be January 1st.

:)) 

8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

This isn't new, it was talked about before, and the notation of Excommunication existed from the 1st century church and onward. It is related to the binding and loosening of the church itself.

The only reason why many, even EXJWs see it as outlandish is because Mainstream Christendom has already put in the idea into many a totally different view of mercy and Excommunication, the facts speak for itself when you simply do research, the majority against this is Mainstream Christendom and those who adhere to their influence.

In Matthew 16, the keys were entrusted to the followers of Christ, and from there, the actions in regards to the church. Excommunication took on different forms centuries later, and in present day, Mainstream Christianity sees the old ways of Excommunication as a problem, and those who follow any of what was originally present.

In that passage we can see that Jesus is solemnly entrusting the Church with the power to bind and loosen, and this is closely tied with the Church’s ability to excommunicate unrepentant sinners. And it’s more than just an ability. Jesus actually instructs it as the appropriate course of action to be taken in the case of certain unrepentant sinners. They are be ostracized, in the way that the Jews of the time treated Gentiles and tax collectors, therefore, the action of Expelling, is enacted, a cut away from the Church. There are also examples of Excommunication of this level in the Greek New Testament.

It can also be noted that Expelling, hence Shunning Command is further noted/connected to passages like 1 Corinthians 5:11–13 and Matthew 18:15–17, suggest shunning command as an internal practice of early Christians and are cited as such by  practitioners within Christianity today outside of the Mainstream. It is rare for a Mainstreamer to use it, however, there are cases, as of recent, a Pastor complaining publicly about immoral blaspheming Witches in his Church.

I do not use the term "Infidels". I am not a Mainstream Christian, therefore, I do not go around the notation of Excommunication.

Within Christianity, there tend to be three major views of the place of Excommunication:

1. We shouldn’t excommunicate anyone, because it’s not merciful.
2. We should excommunicate, because we want to purify the Church of the damned.
3. We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

It is evident as to which one is used and by whom. It can be noted possibly the worse form of Excommunication is Herem, is the highest ecclesiastical censure, perhaps even beyond the shunning command itself, Biblically speaking.

All forms of Excommunication and or Expelling is a practice outside of religion, also, you were already told this in the past.

Your very long respond didn't answer simple question i nicely ask you to answer! 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Well this is true, even outside of any faith community

What does it mean when you put statement; "outside of any faith community"? 

Outside of JW and every religious group? If so, why you put explanation that is religiously shaped?

7 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

even outside of any faith community the Shunning Command is a practice in society

You revealed new light for me. You mentioned the expression "Shunning Command" that exist "outside of any faith community".

I would like to know who or what imposes such a “commandment” on people who are not believers? 

Also, do such “infidels” you mention bear any consequences if they don’t want to apply the “shunning command” to their loved ones or to some other people around them?

14 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

You focus too heavily on 1914.

Wrong again. WTJWorg's publications did/do this.  

11 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

You suggest 70-80 years,

Not me, but WTJWorg's publications.