Srecko Sostar
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Posts posted by Srecko Sostar
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2 minutes ago, Dmitar said:
These are your personal hypothesis. How does that translate to Enoch asking God to kill (murder) a temple?
Should it matter to a Christian, just like it mattered to Satan about Moses body? I can see the reason why Satan wanted Moses body as a patriarch to the nation of Israel. That is also the reason Jesus body was removed. So Satan wouldn't able to use those bodies to corrupt, true worship.
Hypotheses are a good thing. Here, remember the “overlapping generation” hypothesis? Isn't that a very good hypothesis?
Both, without the body of Moses and without the body of Jesus, satan succeeded in corrupting the worship of both groups, the Israelites and the Christians. So I don’t see what would significantly happen to be worse than it is. And, it can always be worse.
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1 minute ago, Dmitar said:
You stated Enoch asked God to kill him, where is the scriptural proof on that?
Interpretation arose from several possibilities:
1) Nowhere in the Bible does it claim that Enoch did not seek God's help by means of prayer
2) Enoch, who is described as a believer and a righteous man, believed that God helps his servants
3) like most worshipers of God, Enoch believed in the power of prayer
4) worshipers of God believe that they can pray to God for all that is in their hearts
5) the assumption is that Enoch feared for his life, so he asked for God's help in prayer
6) he may have asked God to keep him alive so that he would not allow his enemies to kill him
7) someone has written in a book (the Bible) that "God took him", and no one knows what that actually means -
29 minutes ago, Dmitar said:
Can you post the reference, you are talking about? In Genesis, I don't see that type of reference. In Hebrews, it makes no reference that Enoch asked God, anything.
I just interpret situation with Enoch and made rhetoric question:
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Arauna said:
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27 minutes ago, Dmitar said:
Did I say, Enoch and Elijah went to heaven?
I read that in your comment on page 3.
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4 hours ago, Dmitar said:
The Bible speaks of two men that were translated to heaven without dying- Enoch and Elijah. “ Enoch was translated that he should not see death ” (Hebrews 11:5),
1) Is this "translation" that is being written about happening constantly until today?
2) How many more people have been "ascended" to heaven since then?
3) Does that mean you believe in living in “heaven” for people who are not members of the famous 144,000 group?4) quote; translated to heaven without dying- Enoch and Elijah - You commented that you do not believe in life after death. So these did not die but went to heaven alive?
Enoch was afraid of mortal agony, so "God took him" to go to "heaven" painlessly.
Jesus was not afraid of the suffering of dying, so God left him in the grave for 3 days. After that, he "took him to heaven", too.
He is not the ordinary God we believe in, is he? -
18 hours ago, Dmitar said:
Give the visitor a good reason why Enoch would need to be asked by God if he wanted to be translated
18 hours ago, Dmitar said:18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:As far as I remember Enoch asked God to "take" him.
Enoch asked God ...... God didn't ask Enoch; Do you want me to kill you?
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3 hours ago, Dmitar said:
The Watchtower already knows about this site. That, no longer matters. Jehovah Witnesses have gotten a warning about sites like this in the last few meetings.
I'm just wondering if they are listed by name at JW meetings?
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2 minutes ago, Dmitar said:
Can you explain to the visitor how shunning is violent? In that respect, when none believers shun a family member or a member of society because they are either drunkards, or drug addicts, how would that be a violent schism?
Are you such an uninformed visitor? I doubt.
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1 minute ago, Arauna said:
You are calling out God? I guess God killed Moses too!
What I do is comment on the Bible and comment on your comments, your beliefs, and your claims. Nothing else. I am not judging you or belittle.
As far as I remember Enoch asked God to "take" him. Moses did not ask God to "take" him. But if they loved each other then it is quite understandable that they want to be close to the one you love while dying.
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1 hour ago, Dmitar said:
Once again, what is your reason for this slanderous accusation?
Widely known practices of shunning that is obligatory religious behavior in WTJWorg.
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Arauna and SM.
So you're saying that God actually killed him? You can call his experience a "trance", and the end result with "God took him", the fact remains that he is dead (and you declare that he died and did not continue to live in heaven). If he did not die of old age and disease, and if he did not die of the enemy, then he died at the hands of "friend."
Thus, it could be concluded that God is willing to kill even His own faithful righteous servants. Is this some kind of assisted suicide? For, you describe that Enoch was afraid to die at the hands of the enemy. So he saw that there was no other way out but to die before the enemies came to him. Some prominent people in other biblical scenes also committed suicide or demanded that their friend/servants kill them so as not to fall into the hands of the enemy. From all these examples we can come to the idea that one’s strong desire to end one’s own life is not something that God would condemn.
But when the wish needs to be realized, what are the options?
Did Jehovah condemn those people for their feelings? It's not. He even preserved their statements in the Bible. - https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/102001763
It is therefore controversial that WTJWorg says: The Bible does not condone taking someone’s life even when the person is facing an imminent and unavoidable death.......
...... No, the Bible does not list suicide as an unforgivable sin. - https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/euthanasia/
Enoch did not have the strength to kill himself and save himself from enemies who would torture him? So he asked God to kill him?
WTJWorg, for many years illustrates that there will be an attack on JW's and that enemies will want to kill them (with torture or quickly, GB has not yet described). And what is the general message in the WTJWorg publication? To hide in basements? To stand still and wait for God to save them? For now GB has not recommended that believers pray to God “to take them” and save them that way.
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7 hours ago, Dmitar said:
Since you clarified what you meant, that Islam is violent,
Here down is original comment.
7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:I cited a situation where members of Islam were violent, ...
Additional comment related to the original:
In this particular situation (Charlie Hebdo shootings) in France, some people who are followers/members of Islam (two Muslims) done violent act in the name of Islam.
As you see from my original comment, i didn't say how Islam is violent. And i didn't make claim how Muslims are violent because Islam is violent religion.
You made fine observation where we can see how people from various religious background acted violently (individually or organized).
As for the violent act of conduct in WTJWorg, violence of this type is contained in the manipulative actions of religious leaders (guardians of doctrine) and executors of orders (primarily elders and from majority of members). A further psychological act of violence is in the methods of shunning, towards members, ex-members and even towards many who do not belong to the JW religion.
We can always ask ourselves what is harder, to beat and kill someone? Or completely ignore and blackmail someone mentally and emotionally? -
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10 minutes ago, Dmitar said:
I understand the humor. Would this mean the "no obstacle" you speak of for a future event, Jesus would return to earth as a physical entity, as he did the first time?
In keeping with this humor, are you saying the 144,000 thousand will be earthbound after tribulation or Armageddon with Jesus physical presence?
How does it say in the Bible? To God, anything is possible
Besides, do you think 144,000, as a literal number of people, are missing in heaven? Are they a substitute for "fallen angels"?
Besides, God has already experienced such an experience with the Jewish nation. The people wanted to have and see the King on the throne. And this new Kingdom should last only literal 1000 years. It shouldn’t be a big sacrifice for Jesus and GB to spend so many years, for them and him “one day,” on Earth. Humor continue.
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I can understand WTJWorg's commitment to sending its lawyers to Russia and then suing Russia in international bodies because they are banned from operating and because the Russian authorities are imprisoning their members.
But that WTJWorg is going to deal with satirical videos that mock JW doctrines? How did some members of Islam react when they saw satire at the expense of their religion in French newspapers? Instead of bloodshed, they were to look to JW lawyers and seek compensation in the form of money and imprisonment for individuals. -
5 hours ago, Dmitar said:
Will Jesus be returning as the son of man, or Son of God?
I just comment for fun. If Son of God came to Earth in the past as a son of man, then there is no obstacle to it happening again in the future.
Also. GB said that soon they will all go to heaven and leave JWs members on Earth, but not to worry. So when the situation with Gog is over, then the team could go back to Earth but with Jesus at the helm.
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8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:
You may want to re-read on Enoch's situation
You may want to re-read my comment.
10 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:he was in some form of a trance, and evidently, was no more - did not see death.
Did not see death....?
What do you mean? That he didn't see his enemies kill him? That he didn't die at all? Or what else?
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17 minutes ago, Arauna said:
Enoch was “transferred so as not to see death,” which may mean that God put him in a prophetic trance and then terminated Enoch’s life because he had many enemies.
Such a statement, based on a biblical passage, raises the question; Enoch was not the only "righteous man before God" on earth. If so, why did God not himself cause the "transfer to death" of many of his "Witnesses," men, women, and children, but allow them to die in agony at the hands of their "numerous enemies"?
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1 hour ago, Dmitar said:
Actually, it's sad, this statement is factual.
Sad or not, it is so in our reality. This reality we have spares no one, whether former or current JW.
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7 hours ago, Dmitar said:
Now look in the mirror and @Pudgy then, think how much more "obtuse" former Jehovah's Witnesses are with their woeful and foolish debates. Can that theory not be expanded within the millions of former witnesses?
Of course it can. Happy?
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4 hours ago, Anna said:
I don't think they get paid for this, I think they do it for free....just like everyone else who does any work for the org. if they're a JW.
Yes, as for the lawyers who decided to volunteer for WTJWorg. I think there were law firms that were hired outside of WTJWorg. Maybe some JW brother / elder who has his own law firm or a “secular” law firm.
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1 hour ago, Pudgy said:
I think I remember about 20 years ago the Watchtower had an article on “maturity”, how a mature Elder could love God, and be loyal, but make a serious really stupid mistake … which would not make him any less loyal, dedicated, or mature …. Just plain stupid.
Could it be said; If someone is just plain stupid JW, then he/she will do the most harm to self and family? If someone is just plain stupid Elder, then such will harm 100-200 others around him? If someone is just plain stupid King, then he can ruin thousands and millions of subjects?
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13 hours ago, Dmitar said:
That's because it's not necessary, since the Bible Students have their own library.
First of all, this is about JW and their library, not BS and theirs.
Second, the two different religions have in fact a common part of history that they accept as their own and inalienable part, with which they want to boast and be proud that it belongs only to them.
Thirdly, I am convinced that today's IBSA, according to what I saw on their website, refuse to consider the published publication, which was created under Rutherford's leadership, as their spiritual heritage. The Croatian IBSA website has a WT magazine only for the period from 1912-1916.
Given that most of the BS membership continued to resist Rutherford and that at least 3/4 of the members had left by 1931, it is also acceptable that Rutherford's opponents organized and printed their "spiritual food" in parallel, which did not go through "official" WT channel.
I would conclude with the opinion, that the IBSA library and the WT library differ with regard to many or even all publications from that period. Eg, IBSA probably did not have a WT magazine after 1916, 1917 or 1918 for the simple reason that, for them, it is apostate literature that does not promote Russell's teachings, but Rutherford's.
On the other hand, today's WT has no interest for possibility that their members dealing with such old literature for several reasons:
-because old editions promote Russell's teachings,
-because old editions promote outdated Rutherford teachings,
-because the "old light" (regardless of all the esteemed deceased presidents of the WT) has been thrown into the basement of the past because it has become false religious teachingsYes, Bible Students (regardless no matter which department / schism they belong to) they have their own library and not the one from JW.
Besides, do you think 144,000, as a literal number of people, are missing in heaven? Are they a substitute for "fallen angels"? 
Not sure if anyone saw this before concerning the Rephaim
in Topics
Posted
When an individual realizes that WTJWorg's calculation of generation duration (70-80 years) is a failed hypothesis, then that same individual should also realize that the new WTJWorg's hypothesis of "overlapping generation" is actually a new failed hypothesis.