Srecko Sostar

Projection you made and verbalized. Clumsy turning and juggling words. It only works for inattentive readers of comments.

It's like looking for evidence in the Bible that speaks for or against blood fractions. :)) Christians like JW should know that the Bible book does not answer every question.

You are correct. We are discussing the implementation of Christianity by Christ. Can you give me a prime example, "when WTJWorg celebrated Christmas? You have me at a lost. Can you give me a prime example when you believe the WTJWorg celebrated Christmas and then found out they were mistaken? Sorry if I confused you. I assumed you are a JW member who could and should know that today’s "WTJWorg" is the legal successor of the ZWTTS to WTBTSP (Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society, 1881, renamed (incorporated) to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, 1884) from the time of Russell and then Rutherford. Of course changing in name continued with more sister companies from then to now. My internal label of this organization is WTJWorg, it is my own abbreviation that I most often use in communication on this forum or elsewhere where I sometimes leave my comment. In order to correct the administrative inaccuracy of the name of the same organization (for purpose to your clear understanding of given comment), I will find a time-historical fact about celebrating Christmas and publish it in the following comment. Thank you for your patience.

I am of the opinion that spirituality is not something that is related only to religion. That quality is part of other life activities, too. But as we focus here on religious spirituality, then it is important to reiterate that spirituality can be good and bad. What was the spirituality like when WTJWorg celebrated Christmas, for example among so many other examples? Today, WTJWorg would say that it was a time when "they did not understand Bible principles accurately." What was their spirituality like at the time? What was wrong? Celebrate Jesus ’birthday or celebrate it on the wrong date? But, from the aspect of that period, celebrating Jesus in that way was proof that WTJWorg has "spirituality", right? Today, WTJWorg would say that celebrating Jesus ’birthday is a pagan custom. The conclusion is self-evident; The origin of the spirituality of the religion that celebrates Jesus ’birthday is “pagan spirituality”. When WTJWorg teaches “overlapping generation”, today, it is part of the "present spirituality" of WTJWorg and every JW member. Believing in delusion is also “spirituality,” right? On the other hand, you want to convince us that believing in an absurd thesis is Jesus ’path of salvation. Religious leaders manipulate with the context and single verse of the Bible. And people who believe in it and actively preach delusions are the disciples of their teachers.

So please, can spirituality be found only in religion and religious ideology / theology? The correct answer to this question also answers the others you ask. Not. It just means that the listener realizes how much delusion there is in Samuel Herd’s spirituality. So you're saying the confrontation with Samuel Herd and GB is a confrontation with God personally? How far you are ready to go with such perspective?

It is interesting to note here that "scriptural principles" are mentioned. How can principles be drawn from a Bible passage or passage? In many ways. But, the "only correct" way is for the elders to explain it to you, because a layman can make a wrong conclusion if he/she read the Bible by himself/herself, right? :)) Now, who explains to the elders what the principles are? Well, it is clear that this can only come from "Jehovah's organization", they say in WTJWorg. What is "Jehovah's Organization"? In this context, but also in most other contexts, it is the Supreme Church Body aka GB. Of course we have Samuel Herd, one of GB Director who recently argues/claims that YHVH does not always/many times allow GB to see the meaning of what is written in the Bible, no matter how much they reading and praying for illumination. How many years does it take for YHVH to "allow proper understanding" as they say? And what should be called “inappropriate/wrong understanding,” which in the meantime governs decisions based on “unbiblical principles”? Some representatives of several JW stream/tendency on this forum, such as @Dmitar, forget that their principles are influenced by WTJWorg unprincipledness.

Of course. But because of our mutual disagreement, I will not stop greeting you if we meet on the street. If my participation with just one article can refute your claim I will be glad. :)) Vatican issues Vademecum: procedures regarding cases of sexual abuse of minors Srecko Sostar posted a topic in Catholicism's Topics Normally. So who would be smart to believe, to put faith in any nonsense from WTJWorg? An emoticon tagging system is something you use in abundance because you most often use a down vote emoticon. Projecting of your sentiments?

Thanks, you too.

An institution that, in an attempt to find out what Jesus meant when he said this or that, gives and imposes its own interpretations, is more dangerous than an individual who believes that such an institution is unreliable and that its influence should be guarded against. This is the JW Open Club and that’s why we only deal with them. Same principles are useful/applicable to scan other religions too. There is not much to speculate about. These are people like us. And we are like them. So choose whatever you want. We have similar or the same situations that can be easily imagined. Experience shows that even people who believe in eternal life are not able to successfully lead / live their own short life, here and today. They wander in their imaginations about future eternal life believing it to be God’s will. What do you think their eternal wandering under the supervision of today’s religious leaders would look like?

Thanks for the explanation. So the logic would be this: Jesus chose a certain structure in people who call themselves Christians, e.g. WTJWorg, because at the time of their appointment they were the best candidates. After a while, these people and their associates after them chose to interpret the Bible as they wished. Are they still appointed or dismissed? Result is the same, whatever words you choose to use. True. The spirituality you associate with devotion to the Organization is a recipe for disaster, or at least disappointments. Because the Organization is made up, in the context of WTJWorg, of the people who govern, rule the spirituality of the members. Such a thing is not a request of God but of those who claim to “represent” God. Yes, when they give you a warning of an impending tsunami or hurricane etc.

Would that mean that Jesus decided that Judas should be an apostle-traitor? All the processes within this actions ( have one outcome - someone is in a position above the layman.

From what has been written, I conclude that everyone in that "group of believers" was full of the Holy Spirit, not just those with some or specific titles (elder, priest, missioner, CO, GB and similar). If all and every members of the congregation were full of spirit, so they chose some for a some task, why should I or anyone else conclude that a few elected have become a body that has the power to decide what is true and what is false?

That must be some sort of "holy secret".

I do not know the details of their hierarchy and theology on this issue. How members of other religions feel before God should be learned from themselves. If we accept the fact that God is the Creator of men, then He is also their Father. To my knowledge, Jesus did not establish a system of titles. In fact, he told his followers, "you are all brothers." Remind me where Jesus appointed his first followers to receive the title of "apostles"? From the day of his baptism to the rest of his life, Jesus had a problem with the established system in the hierarchy of the Jewish system. When using their titles, he used existing words that signified the established hierarchy of the people of that time. Jesus did not grant anyone any title or status. That already existed. Or the terminology used today was established after his death. Why do you worry about what HS can or can’t do?

I have nothing against the idea that all people, not just Christians, should be "representatives" of God. Whatever anyone thought of the meaning of the word “representative”. But I think it would be more appropriate for all people to be “children of God”. This with the word "representative" immediately creates a caste that thinks they are better and more important than others. I don't believe in GB concept, in the same way as with any other religious group or individuals. HS is in possibility/able to "guide" all sort of people, not exclusively "Christians". These are interesting questions.

You forget the fact that religious leaders like to see themselves as God's representatives and as the only ones who know how to understand God's words. In light of this fact, which you forgot for some inexplicable reason, WTJWorg and their Main Ecclesiastical Body constantly claim to be “guided by HS”, or in other words, that the all and every interpretations presented by them, came from God. With this clarity of the real situation, the term “revision” or "increased knowledge" takes on a real meaning. For it is hard to believe that God would have been the one to revise his own “dogma”. It, "revisions", is the product of manipulators who are at the forefront of religion. Thanks but No. I don't belong to your "flock"

Revisions are a kind of contradiction. Take, for example, interpretations of "generation." Each new "revision" is contrary to the previous interpretation. So they are all contradictory to each other. I am not interested in other religions, because all religions are the same. They want to have power over people. The conversation about this religion stems from only one fact. I used to be a member of this religion. I'm not anymore. This is just a part of mental / spiritual gymnastics, then certain types of loneliness and lack of interest in socializing with people who have a different history. There are probably some other reasons, but who will understand all this :).

Can you explain your contradictory statement? It is a strange thought, since a Thinking Christian understands there were Nephilim's on earth after having relations with the daughters of man. Genesis 6:1-4 What point in time are you referring to, and in what sense can Satan not influence man or his earthly agencies? 16:17-20 To conclude this warning Paul added the promise, The God of peace (cf. 15:33; Heb 13:20) will soon crush Satan under your feet (cf. Gen 3:15). The false teachers (Rom 16:17-18) were under Satan's influence, but he will be destroyed and God will establish peace (Rev 20:1-6). Then Paul gave another benediction (cf. Rom 15:13,33) about God's grace. (See the chart, "Paul's Concluding Benedictions in His Epistles.") WTJWorg have contradictory statements, not me. Please, read quotes from WT magazines provided in previous comments, of which I used just one quote to show discrepancy and contradiction.

Here is another strange thought. They say that satan is a spiritual creature and therefore cannot act on the physical world !? quote continue: , but he will use human agencies to do his deeds. Such a statement nullifies any possibility that Jesus and the angels will execute a "final judgment" on "evil men" aka "goats." According to Bible interpretations of WTJWorg Jesus and angels are "spiritual creatures" too, and they as such also belongs to ..... as a spirit creature/s, he/they cannot carry out his/their attack directly ..... The WT text suggests that spiritual forces (evil and good) actually influence people to perform some action for the benefit of the spirit world. So let's put it this way; satan and demons will inspire one evil group of people against another evil group of people to destroy each other. For what purpose? How would only JW members remain? Who then will attack the JW, because that is how the JW preaches? Gog from Magog, say JW. But Gog of Magog are united evil people / nations (human agencies, as they named them) ..... who have already destroyed each other. Even before the "last attack" on JW. Moreover, if according to such an interpretation, angels cannot physically act on the literal world, then they never could, so the biblical accounts of such events in the past are fiction. Therefore, this "outdated" interpretation of Gog and Magog also promotes another idea/interpretation that has not been so pronounced so far, at least not visible to me, in which they claims; "Angels are not able to physically act on people." Picture and quote, for example this one, is contradiction then. Jesus and his heavenly army will soon ride into the war of Armageddon to destroy God’s enemies! (See paragraph 17) - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2019/stay-faithful-through-great-tribulation/

I just realized how i comment about this topic on another topic about same issue. Let me copy/paste the same comment. --------------------------------- Suicide in the ancient world did not carry the same negative connotations as it does today. Even bible text nowhere said how suicide is a sin or forbidden by Law. The biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. Never made Judgmental statement against those who done that act of self-destruction. -Abimelech came to the tower, and fought against it, and came near to the entrance of the tower to burn it with fire. But a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head, and crushed his skull. Immediately he called to the young man who carried his armor and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so people will not say about me, ‘A woman killed him.’ ” So the young man thrust him through, and he died. -the counselor Ahithophel hanged himself When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order, and hanged himself; he died and was buried in the tomb of his father. -Zimri, King of Israel, burned down his house around himself after military defeat. When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the royal palace and set the palace on fire around him. So he died, -Saul and his armor-bearer Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, so that these uncircumcised may not come and make sport of me. But his armor-bearer was unwilling, for he was terrified. So Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword and died. Thus Saul died; he and his three sons and all his house died together -Samson Then Samson prayed to the Lord,“Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.... Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. -even Judas suicide is an act of remorse, deep regret. According to JW elders instruction, he gave visible, strong signs of repentance :)) When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood

@Patiently waiting for Truth Greeting. In your last comment, by mistake two Thinking's comments are presented under my name.

I would say, how can we draw a parallel from the characters of Moses and Aaron. WTJWorg is considered the successor of all of God’s organizations that have emerged throughout history, to use their logic. Noah's Ark = God's Organization, Nation Israel = God's Organization, First Assembly = God's Organization, WTBTS = God's Organization. However, each of the above had "Earth Representatives", so Moses would be the archetype of GB, and Aaron would be the representative of today's Helpers. Both of today’s classes at WTJWorg feel that they are inspired (guided) by God and that their instructions should be followed without discussion. As with Moses and Aaron, who made compromises to please the people, so today’s religious leaders are making changes in theology and practice. Sometimes they are a relief to the people, and sometimes an additional burden. So, enough about the alleged "spirit guidance". Because the comment provided by Thinking proves this setting or thesis. Like other leaders of the people, GB and Helpers = Administration, monitor the beats and pulse of their people. When the pressure in the “body” of the assembly becomes too high something must be done. In other words, there are changes in interpretations. You who are permanent members of the JW Assembly are better informed about the new changes, bigger and smaller. Sometimes they have to come because of changes in the “outside world,” and most come because of internal events. It is unfortunate that you, JW members, who see the reality within WTJWorg, are still trying to defend what is indefensible. Because if a certain theology still lives in WTJWorg, and you are willing to support and defend it, how will you feel when it is changed, and you knew something was wrong? Some of you are already resisting the "nonsense" that comes from GB, while at the same time you are watching some of your spiritual brothers and sisters stumble under the burden of theology that you are aware has failed. ............. Don't you feel sad? Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

I and the Father are one. - john 10:30

Word "stupid" is under quotation marks. Because of that nothing is rude and obnoxious in my "false tongue".

How can you ask me such "stupid" question. TTH mentioned Jesus ’words in which he invites people around him to eat his body and drink his blood. I only expanded the possibility that the apostles and other followers repeated Jesus ’words in front of other people. If they were “rigid” in preaching such “religious teachings,” my conclusion was in the commentary. So I really don’t understand how you don’t understand the context within which my remark is.