Srecko Sostar

7 hours ago, NoisySrecko said:

Does that indicate "Christ invisible Presence" was only felt in 1874? No! Throughout recorded history, people have felt Christ presence in their lives, even today.

Bravo. Interesting and inspirational view. WTJWorg needs Bible scholars like you. These today's GB helpers, as well as those from the past, can be ashamed that this has not occurred to them before. Such an explanation solves the existing dilemmas about 1914 and the “invisible presence”. 

Because, after all, every invisible presence still has a visible manifestation. For example, electricity is in the wires and is invisibly present in our house. But it will only become visible when one of the people turns on the light switch or some other device.

What did they turn on / off in WTJWorg, in the past, so that the visible presence became invisible?

26 minutes ago, Arauna said:

But say, I die and my grandchild is 10 years old.... there is enough time to have an influence in the life of that child - to teach them about jehovah....

But if your grand child is going to watch ex-JW material it is easily possible that your influence (regarding the WTJWorg doctrine) will not be of any use.  On the other hand, every effort you would make to make a child an honest and responsible person is commendable.

10 hours ago, xero said:

The same way he used Cyrus.

This could mean that Cyrus worked on his own and exclusively for his own interests, but it turned out well for the Jews as well. 

When the Bible says that "God will put it in the hearts of kings to do his will", then it is not a kind of "inspiration", but what is it then? Fraud in a "diplomatic" way?

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

The bible clearly indicates (notthe GB) that one has to accept the ransom sacrifice and have faith in the resurrection of Jesus to be raised yourself! 

I am not sure of this claim, because on the basis of which all those who have never believed in Jesus, and belong to the righteous and the unjust, will then be able to be resurrected. They belong to various nations and religions from ancient times to the present day.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Rutherford said "MILLIONS now living will never die",

Just for fun. Perhaps "Overlapping millions" will never die. Because the overlap goes on and on .., 

6 minutes ago, Witness said:

One thing about this blame-shifting, it helps erase the same problem happening in the org., out of the mind. 

Perhaps Rando thinks that members of "Babylon the Great" deserve more public attention / disgust and more punishment from secular courts. On the other hand, the same kind of sin / crime in WTJWorg should not be an obstacle for JW members to show "understanding" towards their own sinners, and also, God will be merciful because it is "his" people after all.

16 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20150501/what-does-the-end-mean/

@JW Insider   Images like this do not seem to make much sense to me. 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201001/what-is-judgment-day/

Quote : 

Judgment Day will be a period of a thousand years during which humans will have the opportunity to regain what Adam and Eve lost. 

If JUDGEMENT DAY is 1,000 years long, and the judge is Jesus Christ, then what exactly is happening here ?

This image happening would have to mean that ALL those people have ALREADY BEEN JUDGED. 

I'm getting the feeling that Armageddon and Judgement Day are two seperate things. 

This picture looks like Armageddon. But I would have thought that Armageddon was only the destruction of the 'wicked' people. Hence the 'wicked' would already have been judged prior to the Judgement Day. 

This image looks to be killing indiscriminatly. So when would this take place ?  Would this be at the end of the 1,000 years, the destruction of all those that would not serve God through Christ ? 

It seriously does not make sense to me. 

It must be acknowledged that every aspect of the public preaching conducted by WTJWorg, practically from its inception, involves the proclamation of Armageddon and the global destruction of an unknown number of people, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ and God and their rule, it is the Kingdom of Heaven.

So, in that sense, the verdict/judgement was passed a long time ago and no "Judgment Day" is needed as a separate period of time in which people should be tried on the basis of some other criteria. For, according to such an interpretation, Armageddon is the only real turning point for this imperfect humanity.

What WTJWorg reads from the Bible is the emergence of some new humanity after Armageddon, which God believes needs to pass a new test, proving that they are worth living after literally 1000 years of the Earthly Kingdom of Heaven.

Thus, most (unknown number) of imperfect humanity living today deserves to be executed in Armageddon. The perfect humanity that will emerge under the leadership of WTJWorg Princes deserves to be examined, and only then to be, and again it is a large (unknown) number of perfect individuals who do not satisfy, destroyed in some kind of subsequent Armageddon.

Imperfect humanity ends in Armageddon.

Perfect humanity ends in Final Test.

There is a lot of talk about the negative aspects of distance learning in schools. Hours of sitting with a computer, tablets and cell phones. Impossibility of physical contact and interaction under natural circumstances. Occurrences of various psychological problems, even psychosomatic ones. Apparently the real consequences of this “Covid way of life” are yet to be seen in the time to come.

Given that some people around the world are concerned about how children and young people are affected by the virtual way of education, it would be interesting to hear why WTJWorg readily accepts the imposed education communication system in its own assemblies. Although the spokesperson’s statement, in the video, is that the system of religious education is primarily in dialogue rather than in holding lessons from the podium, I think that is questionable. Namely, the JW education system is mostly based on a model of questions and answers after reading the default and predetermined text. And all the text is from a single publisher, WTJWorg.

Does anyone in WTJWorg think that such a virtual meetings, virtual walks from house to house on the virtual streets and the like, will have bad consequences for the spirituality of JW members, now and in the future? With an already existing threat to spirituality due to so many changed doctrinal interpretations and religious practices inside and outside the JW church.

10 minutes ago, Peter Carroll said:

as a jw  ,i know it is impossible to kill spiritally anyone else ,as always, it is up to yourself as it was for adam ,if you bother to go to any meetings ,you will hear this ,that it is up to yourself to take care of the spiritual life you have,,,its your choice to wake up or go on as the rest of the world does

 

How does spiritual death occur? At least in two ways. When you do not take healthy spiritual food and when you take poisonous spiritual food.

How does harmful spiritual food come into being?

2 minutes ago, BroRando said:

"Everyone who is Living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:26)

Are they dead or not?

6 minutes ago, NoisySrecko said:

1921 Joseph Rutherford The Harp of God page 239

These books are the first clear explanation of the divine plan ever published.

At present time/until now WTJWorg published, ...which in order ?, fifth, sixth..., "clear explanation"? 

25 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Everyone who is Living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:26)

You have repeated the same paragraph several times. So, all the people who showed faith in Jesus, and it started 2,000 years ago, aren’t dead?

15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Because they’ve had 100 years to refine.

Sorry, this is outside the proper mode of proof and without solid evidence. The filtering of dogmas, which you mention, does not mean that the dogmas have indeed become true, but only that they have been filtered through another interpretive model.

3 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Jehovah Witnesses can't (kill) anyone spiritually.  If you were a Jehovah's Witness, you would know that. 

Socially, mentally and emotionally they can. Spirituality is an ingredient related to the previous ingredients. Together with the physical, they make us as a person. 

Well, Organization such WTJWorg can cause “death” in any form.

In 1920, WTJWorg wrote and spoke nonsense. Why would anyone today have to believe they don’t do that anymore?

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

You did not understand then, you will not understand now.

Perhaps, but ....

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

Jehovah's Witnesses are no threat to any nation. They live peaceful lives and have Bible Studies. Matter of fact, many of my brothers and sisters are imprisoned for refusing to engage in war, so they are IMPRISONED for not killing other people!

..... Some of you, JW', "kill" others with wrong words and wrong behavior towards others.

Door-to-door public preaching is an exclusive way because JWs imitate Jesus and the apostles. It is no longer so important to literally follow Jesus ’example. Why? Because of the same love for their neighbors, because of which they went from door to door, they have now stopped going. Strange logic.

He mentioned how congregations are now divided into "pastoral groups". This word is so foreign to JW. It is certainly not used in Croatia, because it strongly reminds of the Catholic Church and their terminology.

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

“a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.”

Being a top expert generally means mastering 1 or at most 2 areas of a profession. Some people have the intellectual ability, but also some talent, to master several areas. For example, one JW elder was a mechanical engineer, talented in music, he directed, I think, all the dramas for congresses in some 20 years, he was an excellent listener and speaker and interlocutor. But, unfortunately, he raised his hand against himself in 2013 and violently ended his life. Sometimes I wonder how he would have reacted, had he stayed alive until 2015, to my exit from the Organization, because we felt one nice affection for each other.

I am one of those who have a sense of various everyday practical skills, but at the same time I see the disadvantages of such an approach. But on the other hand, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find responsible and capable people who can do some work. Let’s say construction work, on repairing or renovating a house or roof. There is also the issue of money to pay for the works. Basically, being "your own master" is better than nothing.
Perhaps Video Games should be created to help players master skills such as plastering a wall, laying ceramic tiles, electrical installations and the like.  

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

It's strange that you answer @Srecko Sostar  in this way, but you would not answer me. 

This does bring up another question though. The IBSA was an association, not an Organisation.  If I'm right then they didn't have Leaders as such because each congregation 'ruled over itself'.  So there was no 'church' structure as such. 

In fact I think Russell was against there being an Organisation. Now that obviously changed later when Rutherford took over. 

So now, this brings the question, Who was 'qualified' to baptise others at the time of Rutherford.

In the 1st century the disciples / apostles were firstly chosen by Jesus, then later they were Anointed. 

It also brings up the question as to who is, in God's viewpoint, qualified to baptise people now. 

 

Everything what WTS creates under various names are smaller or larger corporations. These are companies that have a mode of operation led and controlled by the WTS. Who founded which of these companies is not known to me nor have I done any research on it. Which companies were founded by Watch Tower Society (WTS), and which organizations were founded by subcompanies, if they did, I don't know (Watchtower New York, Watch Tower Pennsylvania, IBSA and others; subsidiary company is a company that belongs to another company,) . So, overall, each of these organizations is under the patronage of the WTS.

30 minutes ago, Arauna said:

if David committed adultery under your watch

This is off topic. But when you mention it we can say that the David' act you are talking about (Bethsabe? Isn't it) did not take place in complete secrecy. Just between the two of them. There were several other courtiers who took part in the realization of the adultery. They, at some, became unconscious accomplices in the work. And since none of them "reported" adultery, then they became accomplices in the true sense of the word. 

To claim that David’s servants did not witness an indecent relationship would be ridiculous. What reason does the King, who is married, have to inquire about a married woman and invite her to his chambers? Only naive people can say that this was a harmless conversation about how to serve a dinner table. Today, in WTJWorg, there is an instruction that spending the night in the same house can be considered a reason to suspect fornication, adultery. So the question is not how would it go with David under John's supervision / watch, but how would it go under JW elders' supervision / watch?  

So David sent and inquired about the woman. And someone said, “Is this not Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?” 4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her, for she was cleansed from her impurity; and she returned to her house. - 2 Sam 11:3,4

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I do believe that Rutherford was talking about those humans that were physically living at that time, never dying. 

So, my feeling is that Rutherford (when he took over from Russell) may have felt that many people that were not associated with the IBSA, would be judged as 'worthy' of 'saving' through Armageddon. 

I am convinced of the same conclusion.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So I think that somewhere between the IBSA / Rutherford, and the 1960's, the line of thought changed from 'Millions' being saved, to, 'only JWs being saved'.  

Think also.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

However, I think there is a swing back to the idea, that many humans outside the JW Org, will be counted as worthy of 'saving'.  

I’m not familiar with the new teachings about it.

In my childhood, my dad bought train models and then after a while we mounted it all on the board as a model with houses, a station, small cars, people and the like. It was very modest considering some of the other models that others made. But very fun and live. Live, literally. Good for finger motor skills while joining parts, clasping locomotive wagons and so on.

19 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

A public talk titled "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living May Never Die" was first delivered on February 24, 1918 in Los Angeles, California. Five weeks later, on March 31, 1918 the title was changed to indicate absolute certainty: "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living Will Never Die." The public talk continued to be delivered under that same title until 1925.

The historical context is interesting because it confirms today’s perception of the past historical context. And that is: They expected Armageddon and the establishment of an earthly Paradise during their lifetime.  After the failure of hope, they started a dogma with heavenly life for the chosen earthlings (variations on this theme exist in JW literature)

Today’s WTJWorg context has refuted all of this as outdated and misconceptions. JW Hope has new models of belief and beliefs, today.

Then we have the Context of Present Time, which confirms that both the WTJWorg contexts, the one from the time of Rutherford and the one from the time of present (the year 2021) WTJWorg Administration, are revealed by failed and inaccurate expectations, beliefs and interpretations, aka dogmas.

JW Hope has new models of belief and teachings, which will be the reason for discussions in this or some other Forum in the future.

What Rutherford thought then, and what we think he thought then are two things. Whatever he thought can be assumed on the basis of books and magazines from that time. So, let me agree with the question from the title of this topic.

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

One is chess, and the other is a flight simulator.

I like chess too. Many years ago, I stumbled upon some application of driving a big truck. I enjoyed practicing maneuvering skills. And some games with racing cars. But that, it seems to me, was actually all about such games.