Srecko Sostar

Agree, of course. But you have to agree with the experiential statement that a principle can be changed, as we see in the example of WTJWorg, who changes the principle on the basis of “new light” and new, clarified interpretations of old doctrines. The very change of doctrine leads to a change of principles, in one way or another.

You are somewhat right. But I think, also, experience we collect with time has a lot of influence on our decision whether to listen to something or refuse to listen. The gift of free will is associated with independence. Independence means, in this case, making an independent decision about something. Making independent decisions is a feature of a certain degree of maturity of an individual. "...always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth." Learning is a process that builds experience in a theoretical way. Through practice, the acquired knowledge gains maturity and is practiced over time. Obedience is also practiced and has its oscillations. Sometimes we are more obedient and sometimes less obedient. So, there is no continuity by which we are constantly obedient. Well, look at WTJWorg. Abandonment of old interpretations actually means the cessation of obedience to the previous system of doctrines aka God who “allowed” wrong teaching. From the aspect of a JW member, it could also be interpreted that God suffered the disobedience of all JWs in the world and that all the time while you believed in the wrong ideas of your religious leaders. Has God punished you for your obedience to wrong ideas? In fact, it has happened that your religious leaders have been assuring you all along that WTJWorg has actually been blessed with great progress in every way, spiritual and physical. So how can it be now, that God rewards one's obedience to wrong teachings? Does God want man to be a mature individual who is capable of making mature decisions on his own, reflecting the “image of God”? Or that a man, on the contrary, be an immature individual who must constantly ask someone else for advice or instruction on what to do, how to decide on something? Obedience, to someone or something, has its weight only to a certain extent. Because, no one has a manual on how to act in a situation, so that we can then be obedient to stick to the manual, word for word. If God had imagined things that way, then he would not have even embarked on an experiment with free will. He would already write the rules, so, let people read, remember and obey the rules aka God. Obviously, things don’t go that way. Obedience must be constantly learned, because one must learn to distinguish what should and should not be obeyed.

A perfect mind and a perfect body may have been the features that connect them. However, the experience of the two cannot be compared in any way. Jesus had an experience dating back long before Adam’s existence. Jesus had an experience of what was happening and how the event took place in the Garden of Eden and in heaven with the devil. Thus, it was incomparably easier for Jesus to resist Satan. How long can an imperfect man starve if a perfect Jesus could starve for 40 days without his mind being clouded? Could Jesus make the same decisions after 60 days of fasting? In the Desert, it was a kind of outwitting and tricks about words and bluffing about who is who and who can do what. But I think that part of his temptation was easier, to do right. I am of the opinion that the events after the Last Supper could have been a real test for Jesus, which was far more difficult and serious than those in the Desert.

In this comment you have introduced a new term; physical protection from harm. This reminds me very much of one statement before court when Richard Ashe says that JW elders provide spiritual protection to members of the congregation, not physical protection (there has been talk of protecting children from CSA) If a delegated guardian angel has abused his position, the question is: Why has no one prevented him from doing so? Why no one came and told Eve and Adam; The snake is lying. And everyone heard it and watched it in the heaven. Where were all the First Princes, cherubims, seraphs and other angels? Did they sleep? Why didn't anyone react? Neither in a spiritual nor in a literal sense of protection for Adam and Eve? Or, no one in the Heaven want to violate satan' free will? But there was no problem to punish Adam and Eve for their free will? According to JW elder Richard Ashe deposition, if he had been there, he would have sent the elders to provide every "spiritual help" to deliver them from the wrong decision. Free choice? The explanations offered go in the direction that it could be concluded that it is very likely that free will means the wrong choice. In primitive terms, free will would be equated with the conclusion that a punishment would be obtained for a choice made beyond that choice prescribed by someone else. If there is no choice other than the one determined by law, then we have no reason to talk about free will in matters of such things. And even when people choose a color of shoes that others do not like, many will succumb to the will of others and choose a color that is more liked by the majority in the group or one who has an influence on the opinion of the group. Why do male JWs have a big problem with, say, a beard? Because their free will is not free, but is under attack by the will of the WTJWorg Administration. What kind of free will/choice do we want to talk about? About what kind of protection is about that people in general and unprotected JW members can count on? Protection, not general guidance. Because, people need to be "protected" from their wrong free will too.

According to these explanations, no one and nothing, as person and as place, neither in heaven nor on earth, is "protected" from sin. Certainly, it would be good, for someone to tell us, what that would mean at all: To be protected from sin? To be protected as perfect individual/place ? .., and to be protected as imperfect individual/place ?

The "new light" shone on Julia Blum or ... Julia did a little more research. Of course, it was all under the "guidance of a spirit" who doesn’t mind a woman being a teacher.

You suggests how He talking to himself alone? To make conversation alone with himself? So, the phrase, let us make a man in our image, was not addressed to the Firstborn or to the angels, but he talked to himself? It can be, ..... but in that case other part of JW theology (or your theology) in interpreting Bible text perhaps need "further clarification". Until when was God alone in a universe that did not exist because there was no Only Begotten who participated in the creation of everything that did not exist before his existence? When did God stop talking to himself and start talking to other individuals?

The person who wrote this may not have been aware of the message he/she was sending. It is to be assumed that he/she meant any other organization outside the JW circle. But WTJWorg is an organization as well. Or to write, Organization, with a capital letter. I believe there is a difference between the terms, (being) organized and (having) organization.

JW believe that the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was literally a tree, but that the fruit from the tree was not poisonous and would not therefore cause Adam and Eve to die. They explain that the death occurred due to disobedience to the ban on eating, and not because of eating the fruit itself. By the same analogy, it could be interpreted that eating fruit from the "tree of life", before and / or after the sins of Adam and Eve, would not mean that the fruit from the "tree of life" has the literal value of eternal, immortal life. Both have only symbolism, and the punishment or reward associated with both trees is in the hands of God. In other words, the ban could have been expressed in this way as well; Do not look at the tree of knowledge, because you will be punished by death if you look at it, because you will die from looking at it. "Looking" into something can also be punishable, by the words of Jesus, because to look with desire at something signifies sin, and every sin must be punished. As in the case of watching a woman with desire. (... whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery.)

It must be acknowledged that every individual and every group of like-minded people are looking for a way to draw attention to themselves. It is done in different circumstances and in different ways. And with certain goals. In this endeavor, one thinks first of oneself and not of others. So what I want to say. Which religious group wants to draw the attention of political authorities, the judiciary and the executive power on different/opposite religious community who are under persecution? Did WTJWorg launch an international campaign, of any kind, against the persecution of Jews, Muslims, Protestants, or other ideological groups (in Russia or elsewhere)? As far as I know they are not. Has WTJWorg launched an international campaign against some other type of oppression or crime that concerns people other than JW? So the point is that we are selfish by nature and just think of ourselves. WTJWorg is no better at this than others, although it is declaratively said that we are all equal before God. Through the theology of the JW Church seen, all JW members are equal before the God YHVH. But all who do not belong to the JW church have a little worse position before their God YHVH. Writing letters organized by the WTJWorg Administration is a political decision. With the aim of influencing the political power of the secular state. So, human life is generally imbued with politics of any kind. The story of JW’s “political neutrality” is irrelevant, it’s ridiculous. We are all part of something that creates, in an active or passive way, politics. Whenever WTJWorg acts on the decisions of a secular state, it supports the policy of that state. So there is no neutrality here. Neutrality? It is most often demagoguery and delusion.

Also. We must keep in mind that millions of these JW letters are not in Russian language. Why should someone/anyone in the office of the Russian government translate these letters into Russian language, for free or for a commercial price?

What will come It doesn't really matter where I'm going As long as I dare To hold the other's hand To love the time that passes In everything I do Rage and love embrace each other Be it mine or be it yours Life goes beyond us What will come, what will come I write my path Without thinking, without thinking Where it's going to end In my joys, in my sorrows, in my choices, in my tears I let my feelings go At best, we write our paths the way we care To love indifferently On the quicksand of a past that's collapsing I hang up to those I love Taking care of each second The hours will take care of themselves What will come, what will come I write my path Without thinking, without thinking Where it's going to end What will come, what will come I write my path If I get lost, it means I already found myself And I know that I have to continue Since we are here and we don't know What is going to happen in a few moments Letting my instinct speak heals me Since this all is way too short I'll be loving till my last day Till my last breath of life What will come, what will come I write my path Without thinking, without thinking Without thinking about tomorrow What will come, what will come I write my path If I get lost, it means I already found myself And I know that I have to continue What will come, what will come I write my path If I get lost, it means I already found myself And I know that I have to continue If I get lost, it means I already found myself And I know that I have to continue https://lyricstranslate.com

No SM. Present or ex-employee or third person have right to put request. It is up to the company or institution to decide whether to meet and provide information. Some information or certificates that are official records of an institution about a particular individual who was/is former or current employee, the same institution is obliged to provide based on the request of a party. For example, i come to the school where I completed my education before 20 years and request confirmation that I had a mathematics subject in all four years of education. The school is required to give me certification/confirmation on the basis of the Archive Books containing this information. Or to give confirmation to a former employee that he or she once worked on particular job for a certain period of time. The institution may reject the party's request, but must have a legal basis for rejecting it. For example in case I come to an XY firm and ask who has worked at the XY firm for the past five years. Or to look for the address of a former colleague I worked with. Or whether the person XYZ was convicted of theft in my neighborhood. In such cases, they can refuse my request. Ex-employee, regardless of passing time, has the right to request information relating to him. If the company does not want to give it to him, he can initiate an administrative dispute, if the former employee considers that his rights have been violated.

I am of the opinion that it is completely legal for a person to have the right to inspect all documentation concerning him personally. In fact, the institution is obliged to provide the person with any documentation it has made concerning that person. For example, the institution makes decisions in which period employees will take annual leave. The document which is the decision on the beginning and end of the annual leave must be signed and certified and one copy/sample delivered to the employee. If an employee one day loses his document or cannot find it in his personal documentation, then he has the opportunity to look for that document in the institution. He would have the right to inspect that document, or request a copy, or take a photograph of the document with his cell phone and the like. Since this is about WTJWorg and special rules, within this religious institution, that are not completely clear even to its own members, because many things are not even told them how the internal system works, then complications are possible and inevitable, that our friend @Patiently waiting for Truthtalking about.

Perhaps the outcome of all this "persecution thing" depended on “God’s will,” and little or nothing at all on the efforts of JW lawyers, prayer, and letters. Or yet, nothing depended on “God’s will,” because he “allows” things to happen. So, the real answer does not exist to, why JWs in Russia suffer, if they are not extremists. That is, all the answers to the question of "why", are correct. It depends on the position of the observer who comment. On the other hand, the answer to, why there are no transcripts on the JWorg official site is not elusive. It’s not “spiritual food at the right time,” so why would it be on the “spiritual table” prepared by GB.

Thanks anyway.

Website link please. Is this website "illegal"? Because WTJWorg in Russia is banned. Assume, website is crated in some other country.

I respect your reasons for internet name and picture and for history of your family and friends. Because you put my credibility in question i don't see how story about your "fake" name and picture and provided explanation should be used in order to continue harassing about where any of the other participants log in and give comments. If you are as serious as you claim, then please stop talking about who is where on other platforms and comment on the topic on this Forum. Stick to the topic if you can. If you can not, then continue with same "song". The topics that can be found in this Open Club, are primarily related to JW and that is why I put them. If you consider yourself and act in life more and better than activism or an observer, great. If others can’t be as good as you, then don’t bother them because they can’t achieve your level of standards and performance. Respect others if you want others to respect you. We may disagree about the type of problem and the type of solution and the type of cause for both things. You’re obviously a capable “debater,” but, winning in words doesn’t mean you’re right and others are wrong. All your successes that you enumerate, we, who read them, cannot confirm or deny. It remains to believe or not to believe. So, be modest in your praises, and glorify others who you think are not as good as you, that is quality.

And yet you continue to avoid the case studies, the question is why? What you referenced is the opening, but you, like the guy in the video, avoid speaking about the case studies, the reason is already known. No, SM. Quotation i put is from link you provided and i navigate further to Final Report to Particular Institution to Religious Institution and to particular religion Jehovah's Witnesses, which are all under heading Summary.

He is an interesting character. I presenting myself with real name (some would say that is a risk, because bad people can use photo and name for evil purpose) on this Forum and elsewhere if i leave comment or put "like". He have idea how visiting internet places, let say 1, 5 or 35 of millions that exists, means how person is "all over the place". Perhaps, guess internet only, and not all over geographic places, all over time places/points, or all over parallel universe, or in some third space-time reality. On contrary he representing himself with false name and an icon/figure that is strange. From some SF movie or what. Who can guarantee that he don't visiting 100 platforms under 100 false names?

Just seen on YT. Here is a JW committee where a woman can also participate in decisions led by men. But that triggered another story i have heard. Imagine married couple. Wife is talented for music and singing. And she is looking forward to being able to be part of a choir to sing “theocratic” songs. The husband is looking forward to the same and they apply as volunteers. But one needs to pass a rehearsal in order to be a part of the choir. Unfortunately, the husband has no hearing at all and he drops out of the election. That means, neither wife has the opportunity to join the choir. ....... But there is a solution. The husband is talented at laying gypsum boards and smoothing boards. And here’s a wonderful opportunity for both of them to volunteer. Now it is only up to the wife to be happy as she helps with the installation of the drywall and their treatment, .... and she can hum while working on the construction site. This is what unity, hierarchy and submission to the husband mean. What a wonderful spiritual paradise.

Wrong choice of words. Yes, i am Member in this Club. If I want to leave a comment in this club or on some other page, then it is logical that I have to log in. Does that make me a “member” who swears allegiance? If you do not want to loosen your perseverance, feel free to continue in the same scenario. I don’t mind if people want to see where I left a comment or tagged a video with “like”. Perhaps you have some sort of a OCD in this matter (as in Glasgow case too), as our other member of this club, Arauna, would say. Waiting for your (long) response. One of our case studies examined the responses of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to allegations of child sexual abuse. We also held an institutional review hearing to provide an opportunity for the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to inform us of its current policies and procedures in relation to child protection and child safe standards, including responding to allegations of child sexual abuse. As of 31 May 2017, of the 4,029 survivors who told us during private sessions about child sexual abuse in religious institutions, 70 survivors told us about abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Of the victims we heard about, 80.0 per cent were female. The average age of victims at the time of first abuse was 8.4 years. Of the 53 survivors who told us about the age of the person who sexually abused them, 44 survivors (83.0 per cent) told us about abuse by an adult and 12 survivors (22.6 per cent) told us about abuse by a child. A small number of survivors told us about sexual abuse by an adult and by a child. The vast majority of survivors who told us about abuse by an adult perpetrator said they were abused by a male adult. Of the 65 survivors who told us during private sessions about the role of a perpetrator, 26.2 per cent told us about child sexual abuse by family members. This was considered to be within our Terms of Reference when the sexual abuse was reported to and handled by the religious institution. We also heard from survivors about other perpetrators including volunteers (13.8 per cent), lay leaders (9.2 per cent) and other adults who attended the religious institution (9.2 per cent). As part of our case study, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation provided us with files containing allegations, reports or complaints of child sexual abuse. They provided us with documents relating to at least 1,800 children and over 1,000 alleged perpetrators. Institutional responses to child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses Our case study regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses showed that the organisation dealt with allegations of child sexual abuse in accordance with internal, scripturally based disciplinary policies and procedures. We found that at least until 1998, individuals making complaints of child sexual abuse were required to state their allegations in the presence of the person against whom the allegations were made. The ‘two-witness’ rule applied – that is, wrongdoing could only be established on the basis of testimony from two or more ‘credible’ eyewitnesses to the same incident (or strong circumstantial evidence testified to by at least two witnesses or testimony of two witnesses to the same kind of wrongdoing). Allegations were investigated by elders, all of whom were men and had no relevant training. We found that in deciding the sanctions to impose and/or the precautions to take in relation to a known or suspected perpetrator of child sexual abuse, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation had inadequate regard for the risk that the person might reoffend. Alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse who were removed from their congregations as a result of allegations of child sexual abuse were frequently reinstated. We found no evidence of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation reporting allegations of child sexual abuse to police or other civil authorities. During our case study we heard from survivors of child sexual abuse that they were not provided with adequate information by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation about the investigation of their allegations, felt unsupported by the elders who handled the allegations, and felt that the investigation process was a test of their credibility rather than that of the alleged perpetrator. We also heard that victims of child sexual abuse were told by congregational elders not to discuss the abuse with others, and that if they tried to leave the organisation, they were ‘shunned’ or ostracised from their religious community. Contributing factors in the Jehovah’s Witnesses We considered a number of factors that may have contributed to the occurrence of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses or to inadequate institutional responses to such abuse. The Jehovah’s Witness organisation addresses child sexual abuse in accordance with scriptural direction, relying on a literal interpretation of the Bible and 1st century principles to set practice, policy and procedure. These include the ‘two-witness’ rule as discussed, as well as the principle of ‘male headship’ (that men hold positions of authority in congregations and headship in the family). Scripturally, only men can make decisions. Other scripture-based policies include the sanctions of reproval (a form of discipline that allows a perpetrator to remain in the congregation), disfellowshipping (exclusion or excommunication as a form of punishment for serious scriptural wrongdoing), and shunning (an instruction to the congregation not to associate with a disfellowshipped person). As long as the Jehovah’s Witness organisation continues to apply these practices in its response to allegations of child sexual abuse, it will remain an organisation that does not respond adequately to child sexual abuse and that fails to protect children. We recommend that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation abandon its application of the two-witness rule in cases involving complaints of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.27), revise its policies so that women are involved in processes relating to investigating and determining allegations of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.28), and no longer require its members to shun those who disassociate from the organisation in cases where the reason for disassociation is related to a person being a victim of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.29). We welcome the inclusion in the recently published Child safeguarding policy of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia of a requirement to report child sexual abuse to civil authorities in cases where elders consider that a child may still be at risk of harm. The Jehovah’s Witness organisation should also amend all of its policies and procedures relating to child sexual abuse to ensure that this requirement is included. Which of these was posted on the WTJWorg official site for JW members to read? Did they post a link like you did at this club?

So why then does the WTJWorg official site not put on its site the complete video program and all the ARC records to be available to any orthodox JW who is not on other platforms like me and others like me? I am a regular guest on this Forum, for now. Sometimes I leave a comment on another YT video or someone’s blog or whatever it’s called, a page or something. So it’s not a problem that I have the freedom to choose and view other people’s content elsewhere. But you make a big question out of it. Am I interested in which platforms you operate on? Not. But you’re someone who checks other people’s internet activity and then forges your own theories. Relax a little, please nice.

Do all abusers "look" this awful? Or do you mistakenly promote the image of abusers looking messy and neglected?