Srecko Sostar

Hi again. An example that compares JW’s dramatization of biblical text with “original biblical text” from generally accepted manuscripts (or ... text available as biblical, to be more precise in words) is an indication of how certain past events can be used in a way that "enrich" existing biblical text with a broader account/description of what allegedly happened, and these are words and actions, for which there is no evidence that it really happened. But in the minds and feelings of observers at the JW Congress this will leave an impression given and foreseen by the writer of the modern conversation attributed to characters from the past. Consequently, the so-called official biblical text of the book itself (with or without certain parts in dispute) gets a new sound. It gets an addition in the form of words spoken by a JW actor that do not exist in the Bible. But after listening to the “biblical drama” these fictional words slowly become an integral part of the beliefs and doctrinal guidance of believers as if they were indeed uttered thousands of years ago and as if they were truly the word of God. A virtual, "new Greek Scriptures” is being created in the memory of believers, because it will become an interpretation, a description, a picture of events from the past that should become an example of how to live today, because that is how faithful people in the past allegedly spoke and acted. That's the connection.

Yes, you are right. Also, many or most people don't think WTJWorg and JW people are the only true religion.

@Equivocation please consider one important detail, because you are JW member and as such you absorb (everything) what is taught from GB. Dramatizations of biblical events have long been an important part of the Congress program, and many await with great anticipation and enthusiasm “biblical dramas” that are costumed and that contain a script specially prepared. As it is today, this summer. Is every word, every sentence uttered by JW actors in any of these plays written in the Bible? It's not! I'm sure you know the same thing. What explanation do you have for staging biblical events based on fictional dialogues attributed to historical biblical figures? Do you have to believe that real biblical characters uttered just such sentences written by screenwriters in WTJWorg? You tend to prove that something Jesus did not say and do, and on the other hand you “swallow” fictional dialogues written by some people in Bethel, which are attributed to being spoken by people of biblical times. Do not you see that you (and SpaceM) are supporting the absurdity, in an expanded form with respect to this form of Bible teaching (through "biblical dramas" performed by JW actors)?

They are not found in the two earliest available papyri .... This sentence does not claim that it will not be found one day. This sentence does not claim that subsequently found text will not be considered “inspired text”.

As far as I could notice regarding other Jesus stories (chapters of Luke before and after the story of Lazarus), illustrations, parables, and similar descriptions, one could say that they have elements that were real (that happened to someone, somewhere), or would could be real in everyday life (which will happen, they could happen to someone, somewhere). If Jesus did not believe in an immortal soul and hell, and neither did the Jews who listened to him, then I do not see real need, why Jesus would use “pagan” motives to give lessons to the Jews. I can answer, at least, on two ways on this. A) If Jesus was brave enough to tear down the tables of the merchants in the Temple and make them flee, then I see why it would not be possible for him to deal diplomatically with a multitude of hypocrites, fanatics, seduced believers, self-proclaimed righteous and influential religious leaders. B) There are also, in fact, many other things that Jesus did, which if ever they were written in full detail, I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written. - Lk 21:25

After this explanation (thank you) I have to ask at least two questions, or more than two: 1) Who decides what an inspired biblical text is ? (Space Merhant, WTJWorg, experts, translators, archaeologists ..., '') 2) Is it crucial for the canonization of a biblical text that: A) "the text is inspired" or B) that the text can be found in "old manuscripts"? 3) Who can claim that "manuscripts" are completely reliable? About "an exaggerated story" issue. Questions: Was the story about the Rich Man and Lazarus, an exaggeration of Jesus? Let's read which elements are mentioned here: 1) a poor man, after death, is carried by angels (to Heaven, Paradise ??) to be with Abraham who also died a long time ago 2) The dead rich man is in the Tomb (Grave), but he is in fiery torment 3) the rich man is looking for water on Lazarus' finger to cool his tongue 4) there is a big chasm between the three of them What is so exaggerated in the story of Adulterous Woman in comparison to story about Rich Man and Lazarus? Why does Jesus use ideological / religious elements of the immortal soul, hellfire, torture of sinners ...,?

Bible errors have nothing with pandemic. In sense, errors in Bible text are problem in general, not only in pandemic time.

Is your real name "Space Merchant"? I am not making problem with that. Also, i don't understand your strong desire to deal with the issue of who is called on a forum where almost everyone has fictitious names.

I am confused an have no "basics" about this . What is "Truther Community" and who are "Truthers"? Is that some Movement, Religion, Internet Community? Who are members? And can you be, for example Catholic or Muslim or JW and "Truther" who belong to "Truther Community" in the same time?

Do you want to be extremely uncompromising (utterly unyielding) in claiming that JWs do not make a single mistake in their beliefs and the way they practice their religion (including JW people who created NWT) ?? If you start with such a perspective then it is superfluous for John and I to answer such and other similar questions. The fact is, which does not require it to be explained and proven, that JWs are not on the streets with their magazine trolleys and that they cannot be seen going from house to house. This kind of “sacred service”, for them, was proof that they were “true witnesses” for God. It was an indicator and example, in the eyes of JW, for other religious members of how to preach and how individual faith in God is proven and demonstrated. If JWs preach over the phone, the Internet, writing letters, or the like, that is not something that would be the original way of preaching after the example of the First Church. This is what JW's himself (they) claims, that going from house to house and looking people in the face is the best way because Jesus and the apostles practiced and established it as an example to follow. From everything we know (see) is going on, we don't need to start again (which started on the first page) with a discussion, because the current practice of JW members, on preaching, ends / concludes your question.

You are closer to their thinking than I am. I can only quote their allegations that could give a possible answer to your question. But since you read their publications yourself, I am convinced that you can guess what the explanation for your objection to their translation of the Bible might be. That in the sense, “we are not inspired", "we are not perfect", "we thought", "Jesus thought" and the like.

Basic knowledge about WTJWorg tell me they are in error in things in which they teach and act erroneously. I am with that cognition. If you and others think otherwise, it is yours and their right to dissent.

What do those who know, who are well learned about history, say on question: Does the devil believe in the Trinity?

I think it’s always about how the Bible is interpreted and how far one wants and can go in interpretation. After some time, people in the profession begin to give names to certain types of interpretations and to those who are proponents of such theses. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. - Malachi 3:10 Beloved, I pray that in every way you may prosper and enjoy good health, as your soul also prospers. - 3 John 1:3 So doesn’t GB invite its members to give material gifts because it will please YHVH who will pour out their blessings on them because they are generous. Yes, and GB talks about the same thing only with different tactics and other theological-organizational methods.

Nothing. While I was a member of the JW community, we were taught at meetings that we must not engage in the community on any issue that is outside the JW congregation. A JW member must not engage himself or herself around any changes that would mean contributing to changes in the environment and society in which he or she lives. And all such JW instructions was because it’s an “old world that God will soon destroy,” so why “fix a sinking ship”. Since I am not an open person by nature anyway, the impact of such WTJWorg thinking has contributed even more to “alienation” from the problems affecting human society. The proverb says; "the tree bends while it is young." My “activism,” if that can be called that word at all, is a debate with people on this forum. Real activism requires some other people, "real activists" who will bring changes.

I try very hard not to listen to "false rumors".

Yes, however, most ExJWs would say otherwise, I think in the past you made an opposite point. You gave me link on this. That is your point, i think.

As far as it seems to me, GB member Mr G. Jackson has never before the ARC stated that cases of pedophilia in Australia, and in relation to the Branch Office Australia, are "false rumors". This means that all the documentation that went back 50 years regarding the CSA was not (forged) documentation based on "false rumors" by the JW assemblies and JW members/non members in Australia.

:) i had different link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement From your link (bold, underline text mine): In the 1870s, a Bible study group led by Charles Taze Russell formed into what was eventually called the Bible Student movement. Russell's congregations did not consider him to be the founder of a new religion,[51] but that he helped in restoring true Christianity from the apostasy that Jesus and the Apostle Paul foretold. They believed that other Churches departed in a Great Apostasy from the original faith on major points, and that the original faith could be restored through a generally literal interpretation of the Bible and a sincere commitment to follow its teachings. They focused on several key doctrinal points that they considered a return to "primitive Christianity",[52] derived from their interpretation of the Bible, including a rejection of trinitarianism, the immortality of the soul, and the definition of Hell as a place of eternal torment;[53] active proselytization; strict neutrality in political affairs;[54] abstinence from warfare;[55] and a belief in the imminent manifestation of the Kingdom of God (or World to Come) on Earth. Jehovah's Witnesses[edit] Jehovah's Witnesses emerged as a distinct religious organization, maintaining control of Russell's Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other corporations. They continued to develop doctrines that they considered to be an improved restoration of first century Christianity, including increased emphasis on the use of Jehovah as God's personal name.[56

It is a sad fact that you blame the ex-JW, like me, for the negligence of your religious leaders. For the cover-up that your religious leaders do with the help of most elders. For erroneous instructions that elders receive and pass on to JW members. For silence about the real situation when cases like CSA, or some other, arise. JWs have failed to rise to such a level of trust and openness that would allow them to speak publicly at their meetings about everything. About everything and in an equal way, that each member can be able to say everything he needs and wants to say. I only used this statement of yours to answer you. And that’s because one young JW, 6 years ago, from my former assembly said he didn’t believe in anything about pedophilia, that it was all a lie attributed to JW. I am glad that many JWs have not seen and experienced the horrors of CSA. But when such JWs say that everything is a “false rumor” and that David Splane is right when he says at Congress talk, that everyone in the world is lying and only GB is telling the truth, then you need to be very worried.

I found this on Wikipedia. The Restoration Movement has been characterized by several key principles: Christianity should not be divided, Christ intended the creation of one church.[3]:38[11] Creeds divide, but Christians should be able to find agreement by standing on the Bible itself (from which they believe all creeds are but human expansions or constrictions)[12] Ecclesiastical traditions divide, but Christians should be able to find common ground by following the practice (as best as it can be determined) of the early church.[13]:104–6 Names of human origin divide, but Christians should be able to find common ground by using biblical names for the church (i.e., "Christian Church", "Church of God" or "Church of Christ" as opposed to "Methodist" or "Lutheran", etc.).[4]:27 Thus, the church 'should stress only what all Christians hold in common and should suppress all divisive doctrines and practices'.[14] A number of slogans have been used in the Restoration Movement, which are intended to express some of the distinctive themes of the Movement.[15] These include: "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent."[16] "The church of Jesus Christ on earth is essentially, intentionally, and constitutionally one."[16] "We are Christians only, but not the only Christians."[16] "In essentials, unity; in opinions, liberty; in all things love."[15]:688 "No creed but Christ, no book but the Bible, no law but love, no name but the divine."[15]:688 "Do Bible things in Bible ways."[15]:688 "Call Bible things by Bible names."[15]:688 According to this "noble" points that should characterize all religious movements that "joined" to be force for Primitive Christianity, WTJWorg or JW religion as organized religious people under GB leadership, I would say, (they) do not meet the requirements of these points to be declared restorers of the First Church. The JW's does not acknowledge that any other religious movement has reached the norms of the First Church, but only that the JW religion has achieved it. And all the others to be "apostates", who are already condemned by God and belong to "Babylon the Great". For example, slogan, "We are Christians only, but not the only Christians.", is not what JW thinks about other. Perhaps "Televangelism" is old, outdated terminology. We have "Internet Evangelism" and "Evangelistic Websites" today.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/2021Convention/pub-co-r21_8_VIDEO Start at 1:03

David Splane Convention talks does not support humility. "Media Reports are often carefully worded to avoid a lawsuit", he said .....I guess lawsuit by WTJWorg Lawyers against freedom of speech of ex-JW or CSA victims or other who speak how WTJWorg practice in some life situations is wrong. He talks about the fact that not everyone who is convicted and punished "by man" is also guilty (because God does not think he is guilty) .... so then switch to the topic that if someone reads how an individual or organization is sued, then settle the matter out of court. Settling out of court does not mean someone is guilty, he says. Well, then he says a jury is a bunch of ignorant people who know nothing about law. The jury, he says, does not always have access to all the facts, because judges and lawyers decide what to present to them. Splane concludes that neither party, (the plaintiff's and the defendant's lawyers), want the whole truth to be known and visible in court. Accordingly, he said in fact also this: WTJWorg lawyers don’t want to give all the truth to the Court, to the jury, to the public. And this in fact means: WTJWorg lawyers don't want to give justice to the victim. And "the public" are both group, so called worldly people and JW members. With this Convention talk he gives to JW members and public a big fat lie as "proper food in proper time". Yes, David Splane's "preaching service" from door to door of every person who opened the door of their home with the click of a finger on the jworg website, fulfilled the prophecy of Jesus.

WTJWorg has always expressed pride that the only real preaching service is when JWs go from house to house, and that some other forms of service are only ancillary or rare exceptions if a JW member is sick or bedridden. COVID is an interesting phenomenon. The whole World stopped, "God's Chariot" stopped. But WTJWorg buys and sells, builds and plants ... as people (who didn't pay attention) did before the Flood.